US vs Flynn

[sakinago]

He lied under oath. He was pressured by the DOJ which was, and is, headed up by republicans.

Comey admitted on TV that he sent people into the Trump administration when it was 3 days old in order to sabotage it.

Can you tell me what Flynn supposedly lied about?

I didn't think so.

How long his shoe laces were perhaps? Maybe he said his car was red when the dealership lists the color as "crimson"

“In 2017 he pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI in relation to the Special Counsel's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 elections.”

Hillary lied under oath too.

Fuck this one-sided shit.

Amazing how she was never charged for your imaginary allegations

Comey said confidential mail was found.

She said it wasn't there.

Fuck off.

Not just low level bullshit confidential material that shouldn’t even be confidential, they found plenty of that. But they found the highest level confidentiality where you aren’t allowed to create it digitally, you’re only allowed to read a hardcopy in a special room surrounded by a faraday cage where all electronics are banned. She was told that it could not be sent in email, that she had to read it in the special room, berated the person who told her that and made them send it in an email anyway...to her special server that we know was hacked by the Chinese. Which is one of the reasons we made the law that you have to use a government email address for work. Another reason is so you can’t destroy the evidence, which she also did. Compare the actual crime Hillary committed to the crimes they have to keep doing mental gymnastics to say that trump committed. It’s bonkers.

None of this is true.

View attachment 328727
View attachment 328728
From the IG himself. SAP, Special Access Privilege, is the term for the room I was talking about. Post proof before you make dumbass claims. Even if this wasn’t true, there’s minimum mandatory sentencing for even the lowest level classification. It was a crime to use her service for government work in the first place. She initially denied she did that, said it was personal stuff only. That was a lie. It morphed into she never used it for classified emails. That was a lie. She deleted 33,000 that she said were personal before she turned them over, which the FBI would never allow anyone else to do EVER, which also turned out to be a lie. I know the left has a magical ability to re-write history in their minds and block out whats reality like they’re in some sort of Scientology cult...but the real history is out there.

I'm aware that some of the information on her server was deemed SAP. However, that was not copied from any files, but a reference was made to this information. The part of your claim which was bullshit was her being told specific information could not be put in an email and berating people for not doing so. The other bullshit claim is that it was hacked by the Chinese, no such information exists. Another bullshit claim is that there is a law that you must use government email for work. Another bullshit claim is that she destroyed evidence.

She never claimed her server was only for personal use. She didn't delete 33,000 emails that were personal before she turned them over.

You've really jumbled up details.

The 33,000 emails were deleted after her lawyer sorted out and submitted the work related ones. It is not illegal to use personal email for government business. No then, not now. Government employees, up to and including Trump's own family continue to do so to this day. There was a reference of her emails being forwarded to a "Chinese" IP, a report which was based on misunderstanding and poor information. Emails were forwarded as part of a server migration.

Oh you have to be fucking kidding me. A “misunderstanding” or “glitch” caused Hillary’s emails to be forwarded to servers to a Chinese company with Chinese hardware and software that’s banned for use by government employees because we already know they are filled with spyware. All because that spokesperson of that state run company says “don’t worry, we no spy”. Her server was not approved, and she lied about classified emails being on there, as well as lied about classified emails being in the 33,000 deleted ones. The Olympic level of mental gymnastics here a astounding. Don’t believe the evidence in front of your eyes...just listen to how Hillary’s lawyers say it went down. Name another instance where the FBI subpoenaed evidence, let the party in questions lawyers comb over it and select what evidence to send over? FBI are the only ones who determine what is pertinent and what isn’t in every single case. This was the one case where they let the guilty party’s lawyers determine that, and then delete everything else. Why is that?

 

[colfax_m]

HOWEVER - it now appears the FBI said "you will say this or you son goes to the slammer"

No. It appears the FBI said that you can plead guilty to a crime we both agree he committed or else the case against your son will continue. The FBI can’t throw anyone in the slammer who did not commit a crime.

 

[colfax_m]

He lied under oath. He was pressured by the DOJ which was, and is, headed up by republicans.

Comey admitted on TV that he sent people into the Trump administration when it was 3 days old in order to sabotage it.

Can you tell me what Flynn supposedly lied about?

I didn't think so.

How long his shoe laces were perhaps? Maybe he said his car was red when the dealership lists the color as "crimson"

“In 2017 he pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI in relation to the Special Counsel's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 elections.”

Hillary lied under oath too.

Fuck this one-sided shit.

Amazing how she was never charged for your imaginary allegations

Comey said confidential mail was found.

She said it wasn't there.

Fuck off.

Not just low level bullshit confidential material that shouldn’t even be confidential, they found plenty of that. But they found the highest level confidentiality where you aren’t allowed to create it digitally, you’re only allowed to read a hardcopy in a special room surrounded by a faraday cage where all electronics are banned. She was told that it could not be sent in email, that she had to read it in the special room, berated the person who told her that and made them send it in an email anyway...to her special server that we know was hacked by the Chinese. Which is one of the reasons we made the law that you have to use a government email address for work. Another reason is so you can’t destroy the evidence, which she also did. Compare the actual crime Hillary committed to the crimes they have to keep doing mental gymnastics to say that trump committed. It’s bonkers.

None of this is true.

View attachment 328727
View attachment 328728
From the IG himself. SAP, Special Access Privilege, is the term for the room I was talking about. Post proof before you make dumbass claims. Even if this wasn’t true, there’s minimum mandatory sentencing for even the lowest level classification. It was a crime to use her service for government work in the first place. She initially denied she did that, said it was personal stuff only. That was a lie. It morphed into she never used it for classified emails. That was a lie. She deleted 33,000 that she said were personal before she turned them over, which the FBI would never allow anyone else to do EVER, which also turned out to be a lie. I know the left has a magical ability to re-write history in their minds and block out whats reality like they’re in some sort of Scientology cult...but the real history is out there.

I'm aware that some of the information on her server was deemed SAP. However, that was not copied from any files, but a reference was made to this information. The part of your claim which was bullshit was her being told specific information could not be put in an email and berating people for not doing so. The other bullshit claim is that it was hacked by the Chinese, no such information exists. Another bullshit claim is that there is a law that you must use government email for work. Another bullshit claim is that she destroyed evidence.

She never claimed her server was only for personal use. She didn't delete 33,000 emails that were personal before she turned them over.

You've really jumbled up details.

The 33,000 emails were deleted after her lawyer sorted out and submitted the work related ones. It is not illegal to use personal email for government business. No then, not now. Government employees, up to and including Trump's own family continue to do so to this day. There was a reference of her emails being forwarded to a "Chinese" IP, a report which was based on misunderstanding and poor information. Emails were forwarded as part of a server migration.

Oh you have to be fucking kidding me. A “misunderstanding” or “glitch” caused Hillary’s emails to be forwarded to servers to a Chinese company with Chinese hardware and software that’s banned for use by government employees because we already know they are filled with spyware. All because that spokesperson of that state run company says “don’t worry, we no spy”. Her server was not approved, and she lied about classified emails being on there, as well as lied about classified emails being in the 33,000 deleted ones. The Olympic level of mental gymnastics here a astounding. Don’t believe the evidence in front of your eyes...just listen to how Hillary’s lawyers say it went down. Name another instance where the FBI subpoenaed evidence, let the party in questions lawyers comb over it and select what evidence to send over? FBI are the only ones who determine what is pertinent and what isn’t in every single case. This was the one case where they let the guilty party’s lawyers determine that, and then delete everything else. Why is that?

No glitch caused the emails to be forwarded because they weren’t forwarded to a Chinese company. This was a false report put out by shoddy right wing media and shot down by Republicans.

Senate investigators find no evidence China hacked Clinton server | CNN Politics

A long-running Republican-led investigation into the handling of classified information on Hillary Clinton's private email server did not find any evidence that China had successfully hacked the former secretary of state, confirming the findings of the FBI, according to a memo released by two...

www.cnn.com

The FBI never subpoenaed Clinton for emails. At the time Clinton told her staff to delete those emails, no one else did either.

Anytime anyone is subpoenaed, their lawyers determine what is relevant. That’s how subpoenas work.

 

[candycorn]

He lied under oath. He was pressured by the DOJ which was, and is, headed up by republicans.

Comey admitted on TV that he sent people into the Trump administration when it was 3 days old in order to sabotage it.

Can you tell me what Flynn supposedly lied about?

I didn't think so.

How long his shoe laces were perhaps? Maybe he said his car was red when the dealership lists the color as "crimson"

“In 2017 he pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI in relation to the Special Counsel's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 elections.”

Hillary lied under oath too.

Fuck this one-sided shit.

Amazing how she was never charged for your imaginary allegations

Comey said confidential mail was found.

She said it wasn't there.

Fuck off.

Not just low level bullshit confidential material that shouldn’t even be confidential, they found plenty of that. But they found the highest level confidentiality where you aren’t allowed to create it digitally, you’re only allowed to read a hardcopy in a special room surrounded by a faraday cage where all electronics are banned. She was told that it could not be sent in email, that she had to read it in the special room, berated the person who told her that and made them send it in an email anyway...to her special server that we know was hacked by the Chinese. Which is one of the reasons we made the law that you have to use a government email address for work. Another reason is so you can’t destroy the evidence, which she also did. Compare the actual crime Hillary committed to the crimes they have to keep doing mental gymnastics to say that trump committed. It’s bonkers.

and this is what bothers me. its a witch hunt to go after someone who's got flags out her ass and open activities flaunting law enforcement (like with a cloth?") and took months to turn over whatever she had left after she used those months to destroy what they were asking for.

the lefts stance: oh that was personal and private and i believe her...

yet these same people invent reasons to be mad at trump. the entire IMPEACH was an "interpretation" of what he said on the phone.

so, an "interpretation" of what trump meant on a phone call is enough to impeach him.

yet deleting information requested and destroying the way said data was kept was "oh it's hers she can do what she wants"

and people wonder why there's a divide.

That he signaled out a political rival AND only mentioned a political rival by name during the phone call seems to have escaped your rather partisan memory. And you wonder why you’re seen as a blob supporter

 

[iceberg]

He lied under oath. He was pressured by the DOJ which was, and is, headed up by republicans.

Comey admitted on TV that he sent people into the Trump administration when it was 3 days old in order to sabotage it.

Can you tell me what Flynn supposedly lied about?

I didn't think so.

How long his shoe laces were perhaps? Maybe he said his car was red when the dealership lists the color as "crimson"

“In 2017 he pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI in relation to the Special Counsel's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 elections.”

Hillary lied under oath too.

Fuck this one-sided shit.

Amazing how she was never charged for your imaginary allegations

Comey said confidential mail was found.

She said it wasn't there.

Fuck off.

Not just low level bullshit confidential material that shouldn’t even be confidential, they found plenty of that. But they found the highest level confidentiality where you aren’t allowed to create it digitally, you’re only allowed to read a hardcopy in a special room surrounded by a faraday cage where all electronics are banned. She was told that it could not be sent in email, that she had to read it in the special room, berated the person who told her that and made them send it in an email anyway...to her special server that we know was hacked by the Chinese. Which is one of the reasons we made the law that you have to use a government email address for work. Another reason is so you can’t destroy the evidence, which she also did. Compare the actual crime Hillary committed to the crimes they have to keep doing mental gymnastics to say that trump committed. It’s bonkers.

None of this is true.

are you saying no confidential information was found on her server? this is what i understand you to say.

Absolutely not. But there are too many details in the post above that are incorrect. I was being too broad to say none of this is true. I should have said "almost none of this is true".

hey - i am going by what you say, not what you mean. i asked, not assumed, so we could clear that up. that is all. would you rather i just attack you for saying a blanket statement that was untrue?

now - would you agree that comey, who said this information was on there, was reported to have initially called it "gross negligence" yet strozk had it rephrased to "extreme carelessness"?

bear with me - i do not want to argue over assumptions but i want to clarify your stance so i know what we're actually discussing / debating.

The wording of the statement is irrelevant. The decision not to prosecute based on gross negligence statute is well explained in Congressional testimony and the IG report. The gross negligence statute has never been used in isolation, and only used in conjunction with far more serious crimes on a handful of situations. The statute was probably overly vague and they had doubts whether it was even constitutional based on that. Charging her based solely on the gross negligence statute would have been treating Clinton differently than anyone else.

I already acknowledged my statement was overly broad. You’re correct. My mistake.

if it doesn't matter, then why change it?

it is *not* irrelevant. from what i've read and been told, "Gross Negligence" carries specific penalties that must be handed down when applied to this situation.

from thehill.com:

Early Comey draft accused Clinton of gross negligence on emails

An early draft of former FBI Director James Comey’s statement closing out the Hillary Clinton email case accused the former secretary of State of having been “grossly negligent” in handling classified information, newly

thehill.com

"The change is significant, since federal law states that gross negligence in handling the nation’s intelligence can be punished criminally with prison time or fines. "

where as being "careless" doesn't carry the same punishable impact.

do you wish to stay with "the wording is irrelevant"?

my take on your wording is either "never been used in isolation" or "more serious" crimes. if either of these are true then why didn't comey know it already? also, if the working is irrelevant, why does your very next statement defend the very change you say doesn't matter?

and i've blown past the "overstatement". i do that a lot also and i just wanted to narrow the focus down - not harp on it all day long. thank you for narrowing it down.

 

[iceberg]

HOWEVER - it now appears the FBI said "you will say this or you son goes to the slammer"

No. It appears the FBI said that you can plead guilty to a crime we both agree he committed or else the case against your son will continue. The FBI can’t throw anyone in the slammer who did not commit a crime.

FBI putting innoncent people in jail - Google Search

seems they do it a lot.

 

[colfax_m]

He lied under oath. He was pressured by the DOJ which was, and is, headed up by republicans.

Comey admitted on TV that he sent people into the Trump administration when it was 3 days old in order to sabotage it.

Can you tell me what Flynn supposedly lied about?

I didn't think so.

How long his shoe laces were perhaps? Maybe he said his car was red when the dealership lists the color as "crimson"

“In 2017 he pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI in relation to the Special Counsel's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 elections.”

Hillary lied under oath too.

Fuck this one-sided shit.

Amazing how she was never charged for your imaginary allegations

Comey said confidential mail was found.

She said it wasn't there.

Fuck off.

Not just low level bullshit confidential material that shouldn’t even be confidential, they found plenty of that. But they found the highest level confidentiality where you aren’t allowed to create it digitally, you’re only allowed to read a hardcopy in a special room surrounded by a faraday cage where all electronics are banned. She was told that it could not be sent in email, that she had to read it in the special room, berated the person who told her that and made them send it in an email anyway...to her special server that we know was hacked by the Chinese. Which is one of the reasons we made the law that you have to use a government email address for work. Another reason is so you can’t destroy the evidence, which she also did. Compare the actual crime Hillary committed to the crimes they have to keep doing mental gymnastics to say that trump committed. It’s bonkers.

None of this is true.

are you saying no confidential information was found on her server? this is what i understand you to say.

Absolutely not. But there are too many details in the post above that are incorrect. I was being too broad to say none of this is true. I should have said "almost none of this is true".

hey - i am going by what you say, not what you mean. i asked, not assumed, so we could clear that up. that is all. would you rather i just attack you for saying a blanket statement that was untrue?

now - would you agree that comey, who said this information was on there, was reported to have initially called it "gross negligence" yet strozk had it rephrased to "extreme carelessness"?

bear with me - i do not want to argue over assumptions but i want to clarify your stance so i know what we're actually discussing / debating.

The wording of the statement is irrelevant. The decision not to prosecute based on gross negligence statute is well explained in Congressional testimony and the IG report. The gross negligence statute has never been used in isolation, and only used in conjunction with far more serious crimes on a handful of situations. The statute was probably overly vague and they had doubts whether it was even constitutional based on that. Charging her based solely on the gross negligence statute would have been treating Clinton differently than anyone else.

I already acknowledged my statement was overly broad. You’re correct. My mistake.

if it doesn't matter, then why change it?

it is *not* irrelevant. from what i've read and been told, "Gross Negligence" carries specific penalties that must be handed down when applied to this situation.

from thehill.com:

Early Comey draft accused Clinton of gross negligence on emails

An early draft of former FBI Director James Comey’s statement closing out the Hillary Clinton email case accused the former secretary of State of having been “grossly negligent” in handling classified information, newly

thehill.com

"The change is significant, since federal law states that gross negligence in handling the nation’s intelligence can be punished criminally with prison time or fines. "

where as being "careless" doesn't carry the same punishable impact.

do you wish to stay with "the wording is irrelevant"?

my take on your wording is either "never been used in isolation" or "more serious" crimes. if either of these are true then why didn't comey know it already? also, if the working is irrelevant, why does your very next statement defend the very change you say doesn't matter?

and i've blown past the "overstatement". i do that a lot also and i just wanted to narrow the focus down - not harp on it all day long. thank you for narrowing it down.

They changed it because it would have been confusing for people like yourself. That’s what you do during drafting. You make the language clearer and less confusing. You fix errors.

The point is that the draft has no bearing on their decision as much as you want to twist it.

 

[iceberg]

He lied under oath. He was pressured by the DOJ which was, and is, headed up by republicans.

Comey admitted on TV that he sent people into the Trump administration when it was 3 days old in order to sabotage it.

Can you tell me what Flynn supposedly lied about?

I didn't think so.

How long his shoe laces were perhaps? Maybe he said his car was red when the dealership lists the color as "crimson"

“In 2017 he pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI in relation to the Special Counsel's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 elections.”

Hillary lied under oath too.

Fuck this one-sided shit.

Amazing how she was never charged for your imaginary allegations

Comey said confidential mail was found.

She said it wasn't there.

Fuck off.

Not just low level bullshit confidential material that shouldn’t even be confidential, they found plenty of that. But they found the highest level confidentiality where you aren’t allowed to create it digitally, you’re only allowed to read a hardcopy in a special room surrounded by a faraday cage where all electronics are banned. She was told that it could not be sent in email, that she had to read it in the special room, berated the person who told her that and made them send it in an email anyway...to her special server that we know was hacked by the Chinese. Which is one of the reasons we made the law that you have to use a government email address for work. Another reason is so you can’t destroy the evidence, which she also did. Compare the actual crime Hillary committed to the crimes they have to keep doing mental gymnastics to say that trump committed. It’s bonkers.

None of this is true.

View attachment 328727
View attachment 328728
From the IG himself. SAP, Special Access Privilege, is the term for the room I was talking about. Post proof before you make dumbass claims. Even if this wasn’t true, there’s minimum mandatory sentencing for even the lowest level classification. It was a crime to use her service for government work in the first place. She initially denied she did that, said it was personal stuff only. That was a lie. It morphed into she never used it for classified emails. That was a lie. She deleted 33,000 that she said were personal before she turned them over, which the FBI would never allow anyone else to do EVER, which also turned out to be a lie. I know the left has a magical ability to re-write history in their minds and block out whats reality like they’re in some sort of Scientology cult...but the real history is out there.

I'm aware that some of the information on her server was deemed SAP. However, that was not copied from any files, but a reference was made to this information. The part of your claim which was bullshit was her being told specific information could not be put in an email and berating people for not doing so. The other bullshit claim is that it was hacked by the Chinese, no such information exists. Another bullshit claim is that there is a law that you must use government email for work. Another bullshit claim is that she destroyed evidence.

She never claimed her server was only for personal use. She didn't delete 33,000 emails that were personal before she turned them over.

You've really jumbled up details.

The 33,000 emails were deleted after her lawyer sorted out and submitted the work related ones. It is not illegal to use personal email for government business. No then, not now. Government employees, up to and including Trump's own family continue to do so to this day. There was a reference of her emails being forwarded to a "Chinese" IP, a report which was based on misunderstanding and poor information. Emails were forwarded as part of a server migration.

Oh you have to be fucking kidding me. A “misunderstanding” or “glitch” caused Hillary’s emails to be forwarded to servers to a Chinese company with Chinese hardware and software that’s banned for use by government employees because we already know they are filled with spyware. All because that spokesperson of that state run company says “don’t worry, we no spy”. Her server was not approved, and she lied about classified emails being on there, as well as lied about classified emails being in the 33,000 deleted ones. The Olympic level of mental gymnastics here a astounding. Don’t believe the evidence in front of your eyes...just listen to how Hillary’s lawyers say it went down. Name another instance where the FBI subpoenaed evidence, let the party in questions lawyers comb over it and select what evidence to send over? FBI are the only ones who determine what is pertinent and what isn’t in every single case. This was the one case where they let the guilty party’s lawyers determine that, and then delete everything else. Why is that?

No glitch caused the emails to be forwarded because they weren’t forwarded to a Chinese company. This was a false report put out by shoddy right wing media and shot down by Republicans.

Senate investigators find no evidence China hacked Clinton server | CNN Politics

A long-running Republican-led investigation into the handling of classified information on Hillary Clinton's private email server did not find any evidence that China had successfully hacked the former secretary of state, confirming the findings of the FBI, according to a memo released by two...

www.cnn.com

The FBI never subpoenaed Clinton for emails. At the time Clinton told her staff to delete those emails, no one else did either.

Anytime anyone is subpoenaed, their lawyers determine what is relevant. That’s how subpoenas work.

Congressional investigators find irregularities in FBI’s handling of Clinton email case

Republicans on key congressional committees say they have uncovered new irregularities and contradictions inside the FBI’s probe of Hillary Clinton’s email server.For the first time, investigators …

thehill.com

yet we have all these one-offs in handling this "one" case you say isn't that important.

Timeline of Hillary Clinton's email scandal

A timeline of Hillary Clinton's email scandal.

www.cnn.com

2014
2014 -- The State Department requests that all former secretaries of state "submit any records in their possession for proper preservation."
Also in 2014, at the request of the State Department, Clinton hands over 55,000 pages — approximately 30,000 emails. Left out were emails deemed by her and her staff to be "personal."

why does SHE get to decide what is PERSONAL?

and i'm not going to play one sided word games. the state dept asked for them and her "delete" activities came after this point.

 

[iceberg]

He lied under oath. He was pressured by the DOJ which was, and is, headed up by republicans.

Comey admitted on TV that he sent people into the Trump administration when it was 3 days old in order to sabotage it.

Can you tell me what Flynn supposedly lied about?

I didn't think so.

How long his shoe laces were perhaps? Maybe he said his car was red when the dealership lists the color as "crimson"

“In 2017 he pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI in relation to the Special Counsel's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 elections.”

Hillary lied under oath too.

Fuck this one-sided shit.

Amazing how she was never charged for your imaginary allegations

Comey said confidential mail was found.

She said it wasn't there.

Fuck off.

Not just low level bullshit confidential material that shouldn’t even be confidential, they found plenty of that. But they found the highest level confidentiality where you aren’t allowed to create it digitally, you’re only allowed to read a hardcopy in a special room surrounded by a faraday cage where all electronics are banned. She was told that it could not be sent in email, that she had to read it in the special room, berated the person who told her that and made them send it in an email anyway...to her special server that we know was hacked by the Chinese. Which is one of the reasons we made the law that you have to use a government email address for work. Another reason is so you can’t destroy the evidence, which she also did. Compare the actual crime Hillary committed to the crimes they have to keep doing mental gymnastics to say that trump committed. It’s bonkers.

None of this is true.

are you saying no confidential information was found on her server? this is what i understand you to say.

Absolutely not. But there are too many details in the post above that are incorrect. I was being too broad to say none of this is true. I should have said "almost none of this is true".

hey - i am going by what you say, not what you mean. i asked, not assumed, so we could clear that up. that is all. would you rather i just attack you for saying a blanket statement that was untrue?

now - would you agree that comey, who said this information was on there, was reported to have initially called it "gross negligence" yet strozk had it rephrased to "extreme carelessness"?

bear with me - i do not want to argue over assumptions but i want to clarify your stance so i know what we're actually discussing / debating.

The wording of the statement is irrelevant. The decision not to prosecute based on gross negligence statute is well explained in Congressional testimony and the IG report. The gross negligence statute has never been used in isolation, and only used in conjunction with far more serious crimes on a handful of situations. The statute was probably overly vague and they had doubts whether it was even constitutional based on that. Charging her based solely on the gross negligence statute would have been treating Clinton differently than anyone else.

I already acknowledged my statement was overly broad. You’re correct. My mistake.

if it doesn't matter, then why change it?

it is *not* irrelevant. from what i've read and been told, "Gross Negligence" carries specific penalties that must be handed down when applied to this situation.

from thehill.com:

Early Comey draft accused Clinton of gross negligence on emails

An early draft of former FBI Director James Comey’s statement closing out the Hillary Clinton email case accused the former secretary of State of having been “grossly negligent” in handling classified information, newly

thehill.com

"The change is significant, since federal law states that gross negligence in handling the nation’s intelligence can be punished criminally with prison time or fines. "

where as being "careless" doesn't carry the same punishable impact.

do you wish to stay with "the wording is irrelevant"?

my take on your wording is either "never been used in isolation" or "more serious" crimes. if either of these are true then why didn't comey know it already? also, if the working is irrelevant, why does your very next statement defend the very change you say doesn't matter?

and i've blown past the "overstatement". i do that a lot also and i just wanted to narrow the focus down - not harp on it all day long. thank you for narrowing it down.

They changed it because it would have been confusing for people like yourself. That’s what you do during drafting. You make the language clearer and less confusing. You fix errors.

The point is that the draft has no bearing on their decision as much as you want to twist it.

so you're going to make an assumption and slam me at the same time.

i am trying to NOT do the attack thing here for a change. i would appreciate your doing the same. if not i'll go back to just ignoring you again.

do you not find it odd that strozk was the one who demanded the change?

let me simply ask -
are there specific penalties to someone for "Gross Negligence" vs simply being careless?

no quantifiers, are there specific penalties for this verbiage?

 

[colfax_m]

HOWEVER - it now appears the FBI said "you will say this or you son goes to the slammer"

No. It appears the FBI said that you can plead guilty to a crime we both agree he committed or else the case against your son will continue. The FBI can’t throw anyone in the slammer who did not commit a crime.

FBI putting innoncent people in jail - Google Search

seems they do it a lot.

The FBI doesn’t prosecute. They don’t try. They don’t judge. They don’t deliver a verdict.

 

[easyt65]

You’re dreaming if you think the Trump administration is going to prosecute Obama’s people. They won’t, because they know the succeeding D administration might do it to them, whether justified or not.

There's only 1 thing wrong with your post....

After over 4 years of failed / illegal investigations coup attempts Obama and the Democrats came up with zero crimes, zero evidence, and zero witnesses......while there is enough criminal evidence against Obama's administration and Democrats that Barr / Durham could perp-walk them today if the investigation was over.

 

[iceberg]

HOWEVER - it now appears the FBI said "you will say this or you son goes to the slammer"

No. It appears the FBI said that you can plead guilty to a crime we both agree he committed or else the case against your son will continue. The FBI can’t throw anyone in the slammer who did not commit a crime.

FBI putting innoncent people in jail - Google Search

seems they do it a lot.

The FBI doesn’t prosecute. They don’t try. They don’t judge. They don’t deliver a verdict.

ok - so we're going to play semantics games. is that it? make a point then hide behind a word?

 

[easyt65]

let me simply ask -
are there specific penalties to someone for "Gross Negligence" vs simply being careless?

'gross negligence' are direct words out of the definition of a crime?!

 

[colfax_m]

He lied under oath. He was pressured by the DOJ which was, and is, headed up by republicans.

Comey admitted on TV that he sent people into the Trump administration when it was 3 days old in order to sabotage it.

Can you tell me what Flynn supposedly lied about?

I didn't think so.

How long his shoe laces were perhaps? Maybe he said his car was red when the dealership lists the color as "crimson"

“In 2017 he pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI in relation to the Special Counsel's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 elections.”

Hillary lied under oath too.

Fuck this one-sided shit.

Amazing how she was never charged for your imaginary allegations

Comey said confidential mail was found.

She said it wasn't there.

Fuck off.

Not just low level bullshit confidential material that shouldn’t even be confidential, they found plenty of that. But they found the highest level confidentiality where you aren’t allowed to create it digitally, you’re only allowed to read a hardcopy in a special room surrounded by a faraday cage where all electronics are banned. She was told that it could not be sent in email, that she had to read it in the special room, berated the person who told her that and made them send it in an email anyway...to her special server that we know was hacked by the Chinese. Which is one of the reasons we made the law that you have to use a government email address for work. Another reason is so you can’t destroy the evidence, which she also did. Compare the actual crime Hillary committed to the crimes they have to keep doing mental gymnastics to say that trump committed. It’s bonkers.

None of this is true.

View attachment 328727
View attachment 328728
From the IG himself. SAP, Special Access Privilege, is the term for the room I was talking about. Post proof before you make dumbass claims. Even if this wasn’t true, there’s minimum mandatory sentencing for even the lowest level classification. It was a crime to use her service for government work in the first place. She initially denied she did that, said it was personal stuff only. That was a lie. It morphed into she never used it for classified emails. That was a lie. She deleted 33,000 that she said were personal before she turned them over, which the FBI would never allow anyone else to do EVER, which also turned out to be a lie. I know the left has a magical ability to re-write history in their minds and block out whats reality like they’re in some sort of Scientology cult...but the real history is out there.

I'm aware that some of the information on her server was deemed SAP. However, that was not copied from any files, but a reference was made to this information. The part of your claim which was bullshit was her being told specific information could not be put in an email and berating people for not doing so. The other bullshit claim is that it was hacked by the Chinese, no such information exists. Another bullshit claim is that there is a law that you must use government email for work. Another bullshit claim is that she destroyed evidence.

She never claimed her server was only for personal use. She didn't delete 33,000 emails that were personal before she turned them over.

You've really jumbled up details.

The 33,000 emails were deleted after her lawyer sorted out and submitted the work related ones. It is not illegal to use personal email for government business. No then, not now. Government employees, up to and including Trump's own family continue to do so to this day. There was a reference of her emails being forwarded to a "Chinese" IP, a report which was based on misunderstanding and poor information. Emails were forwarded as part of a server migration.

Oh you have to be fucking kidding me. A “misunderstanding” or “glitch” caused Hillary’s emails to be forwarded to servers to a Chinese company with Chinese hardware and software that’s banned for use by government employees because we already know they are filled with spyware. All because that spokesperson of that state run company says “don’t worry, we no spy”. Her server was not approved, and she lied about classified emails being on there, as well as lied about classified emails being in the 33,000 deleted ones. The Olympic level of mental gymnastics here a astounding. Don’t believe the evidence in front of your eyes...just listen to how Hillary’s lawyers say it went down. Name another instance where the FBI subpoenaed evidence, let the party in questions lawyers comb over it and select what evidence to send over? FBI are the only ones who determine what is pertinent and what isn’t in every single case. This was the one case where they let the guilty party’s lawyers determine that, and then delete everything else. Why is that?

No glitch caused the emails to be forwarded because they weren’t forwarded to a Chinese company. This was a false report put out by shoddy right wing media and shot down by Republicans.

Senate investigators find no evidence China hacked Clinton server | CNN Politics

A long-running Republican-led investigation into the handling of classified information on Hillary Clinton's private email server did not find any evidence that China had successfully hacked the former secretary of state, confirming the findings of the FBI, according to a memo released by two...

www.cnn.com

The FBI never subpoenaed Clinton for emails. At the time Clinton told her staff to delete those emails, no one else did either.

Anytime anyone is subpoenaed, their lawyers determine what is relevant. That’s how subpoenas work.

Congressional investigators find irregularities in FBI’s handling of Clinton email case

Republicans on key congressional committees say they have uncovered new irregularities and contradictions inside the FBI’s probe of Hillary Clinton’s email server.For the first time, investigators …

thehill.com

yet we have all these one-offs in handling this "one" case you say isn't that important.

Timeline of Hillary Clinton's email scandal

A timeline of Hillary Clinton's email scandal.

www.cnn.com

2014
2014 -- The State Department requests that all former secretaries of state "submit any records in their possession for proper preservation."
Also in 2014, at the request of the State Department, Clinton hands over 55,000 pages — approximately 30,000 emails. Left out were emails deemed by her and her staff to be "personal."

why does SHE get to decide what is PERSONAL?

and i'm not going to play one sided word games. the state dept asked for them and her "delete" activities came after this point.

Everyone in government decides what is and isn’t personal and what needs to be submitted. Do you think the government employs people to do this for every employee? Obviously not. This is pretty standard.

 

[colfax_m]

HOWEVER - it now appears the FBI said "you will say this or you son goes to the slammer"

No. It appears the FBI said that you can plead guilty to a crime we both agree he committed or else the case against your son will continue. The FBI can’t throw anyone in the slammer who did not commit a crime.

FBI putting innoncent people in jail - Google Search

seems they do it a lot.

The FBI doesn’t prosecute. They don’t try. They don’t judge. They don’t deliver a verdict.

ok - so we're going to play semantics games. is that it? make a point then hide behind a word?

The point is that Flynn and his son were in trouble because of their lobbying was skirting the law.

 

[colfax_m]

He lied under oath. He was pressured by the DOJ which was, and is, headed up by republicans.

Comey admitted on TV that he sent people into the Trump administration when it was 3 days old in order to sabotage it.

Can you tell me what Flynn supposedly lied about?

I didn't think so.

How long his shoe laces were perhaps? Maybe he said his car was red when the dealership lists the color as "crimson"

“In 2017 he pleaded guilty to making false statements to the FBI in relation to the Special Counsel's investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 elections.”

Hillary lied under oath too.

Fuck this one-sided shit.

Amazing how she was never charged for your imaginary allegations

Comey said confidential mail was found.

She said it wasn't there.

Fuck off.

Not just low level bullshit confidential material that shouldn’t even be confidential, they found plenty of that. But they found the highest level confidentiality where you aren’t allowed to create it digitally, you’re only allowed to read a hardcopy in a special room surrounded by a faraday cage where all electronics are banned. She was told that it could not be sent in email, that she had to read it in the special room, berated the person who told her that and made them send it in an email anyway...to her special server that we know was hacked by the Chinese. Which is one of the reasons we made the law that you have to use a government email address for work. Another reason is so you can’t destroy the evidence, which she also did. Compare the actual crime Hillary committed to the crimes they have to keep doing mental gymnastics to say that trump committed. It’s bonkers.

None of this is true.

are you saying no confidential information was found on her server? this is what i understand you to say.

Absolutely not. But there are too many details in the post above that are incorrect. I was being too broad to say none of this is true. I should have said "almost none of this is true".

hey - i am going by what you say, not what you mean. i asked, not assumed, so we could clear that up. that is all. would you rather i just attack you for saying a blanket statement that was untrue?

now - would you agree that comey, who said this information was on there, was reported to have initially called it "gross negligence" yet strozk had it rephrased to "extreme carelessness"?

bear with me - i do not want to argue over assumptions but i want to clarify your stance so i know what we're actually discussing / debating.

The wording of the statement is irrelevant. The decision not to prosecute based on gross negligence statute is well explained in Congressional testimony and the IG report. The gross negligence statute has never been used in isolation, and only used in conjunction with far more serious crimes on a handful of situations. The statute was probably overly vague and they had doubts whether it was even constitutional based on that. Charging her based solely on the gross negligence statute would have been treating Clinton differently than anyone else.

I already acknowledged my statement was overly broad. You’re correct. My mistake.

if it doesn't matter, then why change it?

it is *not* irrelevant. from what i've read and been told, "Gross Negligence" carries specific penalties that must be handed down when applied to this situation.

from thehill.com:

Early Comey draft accused Clinton of gross negligence on emails

An early draft of former FBI Director James Comey’s statement closing out the Hillary Clinton email case accused the former secretary of State of having been “grossly negligent” in handling classified information, newly

thehill.com

"The change is significant, since federal law states that gross negligence in handling the nation’s intelligence can be punished criminally with prison time or fines. "

where as being "careless" doesn't carry the same punishable impact.

do you wish to stay with "the wording is irrelevant"?

my take on your wording is either "never been used in isolation" or "more serious" crimes. if either of these are true then why didn't comey know it already? also, if the working is irrelevant, why does your very next statement defend the very change you say doesn't matter?

and i've blown past the "overstatement". i do that a lot also and i just wanted to narrow the focus down - not harp on it all day long. thank you for narrowing it down.

They changed it because it would have been confusing for people like yourself. That’s what you do during drafting. You make the language clearer and less confusing. You fix errors.

The point is that the draft has no bearing on their decision as much as you want to twist it.

so you're going to make an assumption and slam me at the same time.

i am trying to NOT do the attack thing here for a change. i would appreciate your doing the same. if not i'll go back to just ignoring you again.

do you not find it odd that strozk was the one who demanded the change?

let me simply ask -
are there specific penalties to someone for "Gross Negligence" vs simply being careless?

no quantifiers, are there specific penalties for this verbiage?

Gross negligence appears in the law, yes, and carries penalties with it.

I mean, whats the point here? Do you want me to believe that Comey wanted to prosecute her? His testimony says otherwise.

 

[EvilCat Breath]

Pressured to what? Plead guilty?

Pressured to lie about Trump or they will destroy his life and the lives of his family (which is exactly what they've done).

Same with roger stone, manafort, popadopolis, and many others who supported or worked with Trump.

Flynn refused to plead guilty on anything until the FBI told him that they would do to his son what they had done to him...that fact has been proven in court!

Flynn did plead guilty. The FBI said they had made up enough evidence against his son to put him away for life.

FBI Exhibited KGB Level Behavior During Flynn Prosecution - American Action News

General Michael Flynn’s lawyers have formally accused agents in the upper echelon of the FBI and the Justice Department (DOJ) of railroading the onetime national security advisor. They allege DOJ prosecutor Brandon Van Grack cut a backroom deal with Flynn’s former defense team not to prosecute...

americanactionnews.com

Flynn said he wanted to withdraw his plea and the FBI delayed sentencing to keep him away from a judge.

 

[easyt65]

2014
2014 -- The State Department requests that all former secretaries of state "submit any records in their possession for proper preservation."
Also in 2014, at the request of the State Department, Clinton hands over 55,000 pages — approximately 30,000 emails. Left out were emails deemed by her and her staff to be "personal."

why does SHE get to decide what is PERSONAL?

Colon attempts to claim that Hillary being allowed to claim this is 'standard', when he knows it's bullshit.

We now know that Hillary's attempt to label THOUSANDS (according to the FBI) of official government documents she was required to turn in for archival were all, individually - each single document /e-mail / file) 1 criminal count each of 'Criminal Non-Compliance with the FOIA', 'Criminal Non-Compliance with the Federal Records Act', and 'Criminal Obstruction'....

Each e-mail/file/document = 3 criminal counts multiplied by THOUSANDS....

Hillary was allowed to get away with it because she was being protected by Barry and his criminal administration because she was the 'heir apparent', the 'chosen one' to protect Barry's legacy'.....it was 'her turn'.

 

[easyt65]

Gross negligence appears in the law, yes, and carries penalties with it. I mean, whats the point here?

This is why Comey removed / changed the words 'Gross Negligence' regarding Hillary's crimes....

 

[easyt65]

Pressured to what? Plead guilty?

Pressured to lie about Trump or they will destroy his life and the lives of his family (which is exactly what they've done).

Same with roger stone, manafort, popadopolis, and many others who supported or worked with Trump.

Flynn refused to plead guilty on anything until the FBI told him that they would do to his son what they had done to him...that fact has been proven in court!

Flynn did plead guilty. The FBI said they had made up enough evidence against his son to put him away for life.

FBI Exhibited KGB Level Behavior During Flynn Prosecution - American Action News

General Michael Flynn’s lawyers have formally accused agents in the upper echelon of the FBI and the Justice Department (DOJ) of railroading the onetime national security advisor. They allege DOJ prosecutor Brandon Van Grack cut a backroom deal with Flynn’s former defense team not to prosecute...

americanactionnews.com

Flynn said he wanted to withdraw his plea and the FBI delayed sentencing to keep him away from a judge.

Of course Flynn pled 'guilty' to keep Mueller from sticking his son in jail, something Mueller had done in the past, even when he knew the guy he was putting in jail was innocent.