USA - China Climate Deal

[HereWeGoAgain]

Herewego -

No, I'm not an idiot .- I'm just literate. You may not have met our kind before.

China is MILES behind all western nations in pollution and energy. MILES behind.

It is catching up fast through investment right across the entire sector - from coal to nuclear to wind to solar and solar thermal - some of which helps their pollution and some of which does not.

What is good for them is that their investment in renewables is so vast and their domestic market so intense that they benefit from economies of scale and can export in massive quantities.

This creates jobs and dollars.

Does that make sense now?

China promises a lot of things. I'll wait to see some actual progress.
Unfortunately while we are handcuffed by environmental quackery China continues to take over as the strongest world power financially.

All the money in the world won't buy clean water, elbow room, or a future for our progeny. It really IS that simple.

We can agree on that. So why is china getting a pass while we get screwed?

 

[mamooth]

And in the pipeline ...

The coming climate onslaught - Andrew Restuccia and Erica Martinson - POLITICO
---
Tied to court-ordered deadlines, legal mandates and international climate talks, the efforts scheduled for the next two months show that President Barack Obama is prepared to spend the remainder of his term unleashing sweeping executive actions to combat global warming. And incoming Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell will have few options for stopping the onslaught, though Republicans may be able to slow pieces of it.

The coming rollout includes a Dec. 1 proposal by EPA to tighten limits on smog-causing ozone, which business groups say could be the costliest federal regulation of all time; a final rule Dec. 19 for clamping down on disposal of power plants’ toxic coal ash; the Jan. 1 start date for a long-debated rule prohibiting states from polluting the air of their downwind neighbors; and a Jan. 8 deadline for issuing a final rule restricting greenhouse gas emissions from future power plants.
---

 

[CrusaderFrank]

China played Obama for a fool.

Big surprise

 

[CrusaderFrank]

Maybe Obama can convince China to adopt ObamaCare too?

 

[Saigon]

m....no, genius.Whowould be 'slapping you with regulations', pray tell?

The US is already miles behind other countries in this field, and many of those countries are enjoying the jobs and the exports just fine.

The liberals in big government would be slapping business with regulations, more than now, in increasing measure, whether they can afford it or not. Indifferent to anything but their Utopian views. Except now they don't have congress in their hip pocket.

This makes absolutely no logical sense at all, Weasel.

Firstly, most of your trading partners have much tighter regulations than the US does, particularly in Europe.

Secondly, WHAT regulations are you talking about?

Thirdly, what is 'utopian' about tackling air pollution? Are you aware of how much money the US spends dealing with the effects of air pollution, such as asthma and lung disease?

 

[Saigon]

Unfortunately while we are handcuffed by environmental quackery China continues to take over as the strongest world power financially.

Firstly, given most of your trading partners face much tighter regulations than the US does, you are patently not 'handcuffed' by anything.

This deal gives China no advantages or leverage over the US that I can see. I totally agree that China needs to front up, but given the money pouring into renewable energy in China, they are clearly making some progress, anyway.

Secondly, how is tackling air pollution "quackery"?

 

[Iceweasel]

m....no, genius.Whowould be 'slapping you with regulations', pray tell?

The US is already miles behind other countries in this field, and many of those countries are enjoying the jobs and the exports just fine.

The liberals in big government would be slapping business with regulations, more than now, in increasing measure, whether they can afford it or not. Indifferent to anything but their Utopian views. Except now they don't have congress in their hip pocket.

This makes absolutely no logical sense at all, Weasel.

Firstly, most of your trading partners have much tighter regulations than the US does, particularly in Europe.

Secondly, WHAT regulations are you talking about?

Thirdly, what is 'utopian' about tackling air pollution? Are you aware of how much money the US spends dealing with the effects of air pollution, such as asthma and lung disease?

We've dealt very well with air pollution and continue to do so. Over regulation can and does hurt business, the laws increase like daisies in a field. many businesses move or close shop. Just because you can't understand, it doesn't mean I make no sense, I can't understand for you.

 

[Saigon]

Weasel -

You make no sense.

Firstly, the US has not dealt at all with with air pollution in generl, and in states where it has taken firmer action, it had been precisely because of regulation.

Secondly, I think it is fair to say that no company has ever left the US because of environmentsl laws, because US environmental laws are generally more lenisnt than those in, for instance, Europe. If some terrible polluter does move because they can not run a clean operation - is that really a loss?

 

[Iceweasel]

Weasel -

You make no sense. Firstly, the US has not dealt at all with with air pollution in generl,

LOL.

 

[Darkwind]

So, in previous agreements with China along the lines of emission reduction, the United States agreed to handcuff our economy in exchange for China lowering their emissions by 2020 I think it was. Now, any sane person who has watched China's emission knows that they didn't even try to limit their output of CO2 by any date. Along comes Obama, and he agrees to tighten our economic restrictions and handicap us even further for the promise that China (which has done exactly squat up to this point) will reduce their emissions by 2035.

In other words, they haven't done anything except grant themselves a 15 year extension all the while the United States continues to struggle economically under the burden of these kinds of regulations.

The fucking moron who started this thread thinks we managed to get a good deal!

Just fucking wow.

 

[Saigon]

Weasel -

Thanks for conceding those points. It's not actually that difficult to grasp really, is it?

 

[Saigon]

Darkwind -

In what way does China's massive investment in renewables NOT consitute action on emissions?

 

[Saigon]

Darkwind -

In what way does China's massive investment in renewables NOT consitute action on emissions?

 

[Iceweasel]

Weasel -

Thanks for conceding those points. It's not actually that difficult to grasp really, is it?

That's what they call conceding in Finland? You know zip about America or what went on.

 

[Saigon]

Weasel -

Apparently, neither do you....

Air has gotten cleaner in recent years. But more than half of people in the U.S. still breathe air dirty enough to cause health problems, according to an American Lung Association (ALA) report.

"There is always going to be a dirtiest city," says Joel Kaufman, MD, director of the Occupational and Environmental Medicine Program at the University of Washington, in Seattle.

Here are the 11 cities (there was a tie for 10th place) with the highest levels of fine particulates, based on annual average. Particulates are tiny (2.5 microns or smaller) and get deep in the lungs, causing health problems.

11 U.S. Cities With the Worst Air Pollution - Health.com

 

[Iceweasel]

Weasel -

Apparently, neither do you....

Air has gotten cleaner in recent years.

That's what I said.

 

[Crick]

Interesting that five of the worst six are in California and are caused primarily by agriculture in areas with tendecies towards inversion layers.

 

[skookerasbil]

Nothing was signed and only the k00ks would trust the Chinese to abide by their half of the agreement. There is nothing..........NOTHING........binding in this agreement. A PR stunt by the Chinese!!

Heres the nut sack kick the AGW k00ks have to deal with >>>


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And some wonder why they call these people a religion???[/URL]

 

[skookerasbil]

laughable


The AGW climate crusaders are the most easily duped people on the planet outside of urban blacks. ( and they cant extrapolate the instructive abstracts from graphs )

 

[skookerasbil]

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