USA - China Climate Deal

[Iceweasel]

The "deal" should serve as a perfect example of the obama presidency. He will screw Americans while the Chinese agree to continue what they have been doing.

 

[toxicmedia]

Gruber is right, American voters are stupid

 

[Crick]

And what would you recommend as a solution to that failing?

 

[skookerasbil]

LOL.....the projection graphs of Chinese energy production decades from now ( see graphs on page 4)........proves one thing beyond any reasonable doubt: the AGW contingent are pronounced mental cases.

When you refuse to accept factual reality.........you're a k00k.

 

[Shrimpbox]

Sometimes the treehuggers can't see the forest for,the trees. Open the spigot for natural gas in this country, export it to china, get our trillion plus dollar debt holding back, make the Chinese dependent on us, and clean up the environment. Oh yeah and get filthy rich so there will be even more wealth to redistribute.

Obama couldn't negotiate his way out of a paper bag. The con artist in chief has been played by the Chinese and he doesn't even get it he is so desperate for some kind of legacy. I predict solar panels will go the way of the buggy whip in the next fifty years, technology is moving that fast.

 

[Saigon]

I predict solar panels will go the way of the buggy whip in the next fifty years, technology is moving that fast.

Indeed - and manufactured by the Chinese because people like you didn't want the jobs. Yes, you're smart, alright!

 

[Judicial review]

Oh fuck me.....

 

[Crick]

I predict solar panels will go the way of the buggy whip in the next fifty years, technology is moving that fast.

And so... are you suggesting that we not waste time building them?

Just out of curiosity, what do you think will replace them?

 

[Politico]

How will it be enforced? Are there international laws in place? And what technology will drop emissions by a quarter in that amount of time? Sounds like masturbation to me.

Hell,there's nothing to be enforced.

Thus why the deadline is 20 years off. It is a meaningless thing like all the other meaningless things.

 

[Saigon]

It may prove meaningless, but in general I do think these agreements reflect a genuine desire by countries like China to do better both in terms of pollution, and in terms of international cooperation.

There is a lot of internal political pressure within China to improve, plus a lot of external pressure from the EU etc. There is also the immense cost of healthcare linked to pollution that I am sure Chinese authorities are aware of, and the potential for a huge export industry in renewables - particularly given the US is being held back in this sector by conservatives.

So if they say they will reduce emisions by 25% in ten years and they only hit 15%, that still might be better than what would have been achieved without the agreement, and I think that is the point people need to keep in mind.

 

[Old Rocks]

How will it be enforced? Are there international laws in place? And what technology will drop emissions by a quarter in that amount of time? Sounds like masturbation to me.

Hell,there's nothing to be enforced.

Thus why the deadline is 20 years off. It is a meaningless thing like all the other meaningless things.

Really? The ESA just put down a lander on a comet, a mission that has taken ten years. Perhaps the scope of your vision is so limited that you cannot imagine anything longer than 2 years, but for the rest of us, 20 years is not that long a time.

 

[Iceweasel]

Really? The ESA just put down a lander on a comet, a mission that has taken ten years. Perhaps the scope of your vision is so limited that you cannot imagine anything longer than 2 years, but for the rest of us, 20 years is not that long a time.

What's that got to do with what we're talking about?

 

[skookerasbil]

It may prove meaningless, but in general I do think these agreements reflect a genuine desire by countries like China to do better both in terms of pollution, and in terms of international cooperation.

There is a lot of internal political pressure within China to improve, plus a lot of external pressure from the EU etc. There is also the immense cost of healthcare linked to pollution that I am sure Chinese authorities are aware of, and the potential for a huge export industry in renewables - particularly given the US is being held back in this sector by conservatives.

So if they say they will reduce emisions by 25% in ten years and they only hit 15%, that still might be better than what would have been achieved without the agreement, and I think that is the point people need to keep in mind.

s0n.........how do you get to this point in life and believe some of the shit you do? Im serious..............the Chinese don't abide by any of this shit......they are only going to take any advantage they can in the renewables market but the rest is a PR stunt. They don't give a flying fuck about emissions.......the projection graphs on their use of fossil fuels decades down the road need zero elaboration.

Your agenda is noble.........but doesn't fit with the fact that modern economies will supply the energy based upon cost and nothing else. That's just the way its been and the way it will always be.

Im not for coal or against coal. Im not for renewables or against renewables. My presence in this forum has always been about providing the sobering realities others don't want to accept which is why Im universally hated in here. Renewables will always be a fringe energy source at least out to 2050......after that, we'll be using some other form of energy not yet developed and solar and wind will become a footnote in energy history.


Bottom line is.........like it or not, "costs" determine what energy is used to power modern economies.........period. Fringe energy markets exist just to keep a voting block content.

 

[longknife]

The whole damned thing is a toothless joke. Just another example of the ineptness of the man representing the USA. No wonder every other nation on earth is laughing at us.

 

[mamooth]

So Obama gets China to make major concessions for the first time... and Longknife says that proves Obama is weak.

Conclusion: ODS causes brain damage.

 

[Kosh]

So Obama gets China to make major concessions for the first time... and Longknife says that proves Obama is weak.

Conclusion: ODS causes brain damage.

You mean like China signing the Kyoto Protocol that exempted them?

My you far left/AGW cult members will do all you can to praise your messiahs.

 

[Politico]

Really? The ESA just put down a lander on a comet, a mission that has taken ten years. Perhaps the scope of your vision is so limited that you cannot imagine anything longer than 2 years, but for the rest of us, 20 years is not that long a time.

What's that got to do with what we're talking about?

Not a darn thing. But apparently their brilliants didn't take into account the thing ran on sunlight when they set it down in the shade.

 

[Saigon]

Really? The ESA just put down a lander on a comet, a mission that has taken ten years. Perhaps the scope of your vision is so limited that you cannot imagine anything longer than 2 years, but for the rest of us, 20 years is not that long a time.

What's that got to do with what we're talking about?

I think the point here is that reducing emissions is going to take countries like China and India quite some time - just as it took countries like the US and Finland quite some time. It's not something that can be done in two years. It's a twenty year process of shifting from coal and gas to nuclear, solar thermal and tidal.

China is now a few years down that path, and this agreement commits them to going further.

That is good news for all of us.

 

[Iceweasel]

the point here is that reducing emissions is going to take countries like China and India quite some time - just as it took countries like the US and Finland quite some time. It's not something that can be done in two years. It's a twenty year process of shifting from coal and gas to nuclear, solar thermal and tidal.

China is now a few years down that path, and this agreement commits them to going further.

That is good news for all of us.

No it isn't because they aren't obligated to do anything and have a history of doing what ever they want. Meanwhile US industry will have it even harder if obama gets his way. The only good news is that he isn't our master.

 

[Old Rocks]

In a developing nation such as China, with the educated class becoming an increasingly large part of the population, there will be a very strong push towards a cleaner environment. That will involve getting rid of the old coal burning plants, and going to something that is far less polluting. Also, by doing that, and staying on the cutting edge of technology, they become a stronger nation. Already we see them having dominance in the solar manufacturing. Should they be the people that make a breakthrough to the first high efficiency solar cells that are also cheap to manufacture, then they will be in an even stronger economic position.

One point to remember is that they are not hobbled by the short sighted five year outlook that seems to be prevelant in this nation. And both China and India are graduating more engineers than the US. And, for those that point out the quality differance, many of us here routinely read peer reviewed journals, and you cannot help but notice the increase in the number of asian and Indian names on those papers.

I have no doubt that China will try to meet, and maybe exceed, the stated goals, because doing so will be in the interests of China and the Chinese people.