Victims' Families Want To Air New 9/11 Truth Ad


Why did a portion of the one building collapse? Why did it not stay completely intact as you say it should?

never said it would stay completely intact
LETS COMPARE THE WTC 7 TO THE MADRID INFERNO IN A FAIR COMPARISON-

In fact, comparisons between the Windsor tower and the WTC Towers are limited because of the very different structures of these buildings. The Twin Towers and Building 7 were both 100% steel-framed, with large wide-flange columns and box columns, some measuring over four feet wide and fabricated of steel up to five inches thick. Severe fires in other skyscrapers which, like the WTC Towers, were 100% steel-framed, have not produced even partial collapses.

In contrast to the WTC Towers, the Windsor building was framed primarily in steel-reinforced concrete, with columns of concrete reinforced by thin sections of rebar. 4 The concrete pillars in the Windsor building are clearly visible in the photographs showing the intact core exposed by the collapsed facade. The very light construction of the perimeter, described below, makes it clear that the core was the main load-bearing component of the building.

Windsor fire Windsor fire close-up

windsor4.jpg


MADRIDFIRE2.jpg


1MADRIDFIRE.jpg


Compare these photographs of the Windsor building fire to photographs of the Twin Towers' fires and Building 7's fires

wtc7fire1.jpg


wtc7fire_ss2001.jpg


wtc711-collapsedatnearfreefallspeed.jpg


ZafarWTC7fire.jpg


11wtc-building-7-map_22.jpg


Before examining the partial collapse of the Windsor building more closely, we note that steel-framed and steel-reinforced-concrete-framed structures behave very differently in fires.

* Steel is a good conductor and concrete is a poor conductor of heat. Thus in a fire, a steel frame will conduct heat away from the hotspots into the larger structure. As long as the fire does not consume the larger structure, this heat conductivity will keep the temperatures of the frame well below the fire temperatures. The same is not true of steel-reinforced-concrete structures, since concrete is not a good thermal conductor, and the thermal conductivity of the rebar inside the concrete is limited by its small mass and the embedding matrix of concrete.
* Fires can cause spalling of concrete, but not of steel. This is because concrete has a small percentage of latent moisture, which is converted to steam by heat. Thus, a large fire can gradually erode a concrete structure to the point of collapse, whereas a fire can only threaten a steel-framed structure if it elevates steel temperatures to such an extent that it causes failures.

Windsor Building Partial Collapse


The observation that the Windsor Building is the only skyscraper to have suffered even a partial collapse as a result of fire suggests that the use of steel-reinforced-concrete framing was responsible. A closer look at the incident shows reality to be more complex. The portion of the building that collapsed consisted of the outer portions of floor slabs and perimeter walls throughout the upper third of the building (the 21st through 32nd floors). The outer walls consisted of steel box columns arranged on 1.8 meter centers and connected by narrow spandrel plates. The columns had square cross-sections 120mm on a side, and were fabricated of C-sections 7mm thick welded together. (these had a fraction of the dimensions, and were spaced about twice as far apart as the perimeter columns of the Twin Towers.) The perimeter columns lacked fireproofing throughout the upper third of the Windsor building.

The Windsor Building fire demonstrates that a huge building-consuming fire, after burning for many hours, can produce the collapse of parts of the building with weak steel supports lacking fire protection. It also shows that the collapse events that do occur are gradual and partial.

9-11 Research: The Windsor Building Fire

No total collapse straight down to the ground at free fall speed for 2.25 secs., in fact it had to be dismantled. Thermal expansion theory by NIST is a fucking joke, and you apologists are fucking jokes too. :lol:
 
:lol: Still trying to prove one conspiracy by using conspiracy sites alone? :lol: It still astounds me that you fucktards are dumb enough to pretend all buildings should react the same regardless of construction, materials and circumstances. And you wonder why you have no credibility! :lol:
 
any study the points to the collapse of wtc 7 as evidence of thermal expansion and the lack of previous understanding of its effects is flawed in its initial premise...using the failed NIST theories as evidence to build upon and expand their thermal expansion theory

:lol: The dumbshit eots STILL thinks nobody knows about thermal expansion unless dealing with WTC 7. :lol: Why do you think they put fire retardant on the steel, dumbass!!! Come on! What possible purpose would one have for putting fire retardant on steel unless one knows what happens if that fire retardant ISN'T there? :lol: You shitheads crack me up!
 
No they don't asswipe. I proivided this link to you before and you ignored it becuase it made you look like an asshole (not that hard actually).

http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/obj/irc/doc/pubs/nrcc50830/nrcc50830.pdf

Here are a couple of quotes from the pdf linked above.





See that first quote? This addresses your sun versus office fire horseshit. They design for thermal expansion due to ambient temperatures, but not office fires.

So once again, you've been proven to have a complete lack of knowledge in this field, yet you continue to argue while providing no links or evidence to support your claim.

I'll ask again. Please provide the link or source you are using to to make the claim that structural engineers design for thermal expansion due to fires. I have just provided you with a source that debunks your asinine claim and further proves that you are just guessing.

any study the points to the collapse of wtc 7 as evidence of thermal expansion and the lack of previous understanding of its effects is flawed in its initial premise...using the failed NIST theories as evidence to build upon and expand their thermal expansion theory

Show me your proof that structural engineers design steel structures to accommodate thermal expansion due to office fires. Anything will due. Source the evidence to your claim.

I've asked you this many times, but you refuse to provide it. Show me codes, design guides, quotes from actual structural engineers.

You can't because you are WRONG!

C'mon "Mr. I source my claims"...

You made a bold claim now let's see you back it up. Please give the source that you have for making the claim that structural engineers design their steel structures to accommodate thermal expansion due to office fires.

I have asked you this may times yet you seem to "miss it".

Or are you just pulling shit out of your ass like usual?

Source please...
 
More information that eots' claim that structural engineers design steel buildings to accommodate thermal expansion due to fires is nothing more than bullshit. Not only can he NOT source any proof to support his claims, there have baan MANY sources that prove otherwise.

Here is ANOTHER source proving him completely wrong.
http://www.jcss.ethz.ch/events/ws_2005-11/Paper/Lamont_Paper.pdf

Structural engineers do not traditionally consider fire as a load on a structural frame. This is
in contrast to other loads they must consider. Seismic design relies on modelling, risk
analysis and changes to the structural stiffness. Wind design often relies on additional
structural members and wind tunnel tests. Fire design relies on very simple, single element
tests to calculate insulating material for a frame, in order to limit its temperature increase for
specific fire resistance ratings. Thermal induced forces, as occur in fire, are generally not
calculated or designed for
.
 
yes they do ..and they calculate it o being too minimal for concern
lol...so steel structures everywhere are in danger of falling in fire because engineers are blind to the new discovery of thermal expansion...lol

No they don't asswipe. I proivided this link to you before and you ignored it becuase it made you look like an asshole (not that hard actually).

http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/obj/irc/doc/pubs/nrcc50830/nrcc50830.pdf

Here are a couple of quotes from the pdf linked above.



This result reveals the fact that currently, there is a clear lack of knowledge and design methodology relating to the effects of thermal expansion on performance of structures in fire.

See that first quote? This addresses your sun versus office fire horseshit. They design for thermal expansion due to ambient temperatures, but not office fires.

So once again, you've been proven to have a complete lack of knowledge in this field, yet you continue to argue while providing no links or evidence to support your claim.

I'll ask again. Please provide the link or source you are using to to make the claim that structural engineers design for thermal expansion due to fires. I have just provided you with a source that debunks your asinine claim and further proves that you are just guessing.

any study the points to the collapse of wtc 7 as evidence of thermal expansion and the lack of previous understanding of its effects is flawed in its initial premise...using the failed NIST theories as evidence to build upon and expand their thermal expansion theory

The reason, ass, that I posted this was to prove that your claim of "structural engineers do in fact design buildings to accommodate thermal expansion due to fires" is completely wrong.

You have yet to provide ONE source that proves otherwise.

You lose.
 
The NIST theory of thermal expansion is so full of shit it's pathetic. Everyone knows that thermal expansion does indeed occur, and to think and say that an engineer in building design does not know this is absurd, however what is more absurd is for NIST to say that a 47 story building reinforced beyond the original safety factors it was designed with, would collapse globally to the ground while in the process achieve speeds of actual free fall for approximately 8 of those stories.
Thermal expansion happens, but it is so minimal that it never has been the cause of such a collapse like the WTC7 building.
Why didn't the Madrid fire have all this "thermal expansion" and collapse straight down despite burning longer and more intensely then WTC 7?
The Madrid building had steel components that were less robust then WTC 7.
I guess only in Manhattan NY. And only on Silverstein owned properties.
 
No they don't asswipe. I proivided this link to you before and you ignored it becuase it made you look like an asshole (not that hard actually).

http://www.nrc-cnrc.gc.ca/obj/irc/doc/pubs/nrcc50830/nrcc50830.pdf

Here are a couple of quotes from the pdf linked above.





See that first quote? This addresses your sun versus office fire horseshit. They design for thermal expansion due to ambient temperatures, but not office fires.

So once again, you've been proven to have a complete lack of knowledge in this field, yet you continue to argue while providing no links or evidence to support your claim.

I'll ask again. Please provide the link or source you are using to to make the claim that structural engineers design for thermal expansion due to fires. I have just provided you with a source that debunks your asinine claim and further proves that you are just guessing.

any study the points to the collapse of wtc 7 as evidence of thermal expansion and the lack of previous understanding of its effects is flawed in its initial premise...using the failed NIST theories as evidence to build upon and expand their thermal expansion theory

The reason, ass, that I posted this was to prove that your claim of "structural engineers do in fact design buildings to accommodate thermal expansion due to fires" is completely wrong.

You have yet to provide ONE source that proves otherwise.

You lose.

Still no source for your claim eots?

I suppose that means you pulled it out of your ass?

I'll wait here.

Again.

:eusa_whistle:
 
any study the points to the collapse of wtc 7 as evidence of thermal expansion and the lack of previous understanding of its effects is flawed in its initial premise...using the failed NIST theories as evidence to build upon and expand their thermal expansion theory

The reason, ass, that I posted this was to prove that your claim of "structural engineers do in fact design buildings to accommodate thermal expansion due to fires" is completely wrong.

You have yet to provide ONE source that proves otherwise.

You lose.

Still no source for your claim eots?

I suppose that means you pulled it out of your ass?

I'll wait here.

Again.

:eusa_whistle:

What's the matter eots? Having a hard time finding that source for you claim?

:lol::lol::lol:
 
any study the points to the collapse of wtc 7 as evidence of thermal expansion and the lack of previous understanding of its effects is flawed in its initial premise...using the failed nist theories as evidence to build upon and expand their thermal expansion theory

:lol: The dumbshit eots still thinks nobody knows about thermal expansion unless dealing with wtc 7. :lol: Why do you think they put fire retardant on the steel, dumbass!!! Come on! What possible purpose would one have for putting fire retardant on steel unless one knows what happens if that fire retardant isn't there? :lol: You shitheads crack me up!

apparently not to protect against thermal expansion according to your little friend...
 
any study the points to the collapse of wtc 7 as evidence of thermal expansion and the lack of previous understanding of its effects is flawed in its initial premise...using the failed nist theories as evidence to build upon and expand their thermal expansion theory

:lol: The dumbshit eots still thinks nobody knows about thermal expansion unless dealing with wtc 7. :lol: Why do you think they put fire retardant on the steel, dumbass!!! Come on! What possible purpose would one have for putting fire retardant on steel unless one knows what happens if that fire retardant isn't there? :lol: You shitheads crack me up!

apparently not to protect against thermal expansion according to your little friend...

Oh my god, you have got to be the biggest fucking retard in the WORLD! Fire retardant prevents thermal expansion, but it can only do so for so long before the steel heats up anyway. That is why fire retardant is rated on how long it can keep the heat away from the steel. Thanks for proving once again just how big of a dumbshit you really are!
 
:lol: The dumbshit eots still thinks nobody knows about thermal expansion unless dealing with wtc 7. :lol: Why do you think they put fire retardant on the steel, dumbass!!! Come on! What possible purpose would one have for putting fire retardant on steel unless one knows what happens if that fire retardant isn't there? :lol: You shitheads crack me up!

apparently not to protect against thermal expansion according to your little friend...

oh my god, you have got to be the biggest fucking retard in the world! Fire retardant prevents thermal expansion, but it can only do so for so long before the steel heats up anyway. That is why fire retardant is rated on how long it can keep the heat away from the steel. Thanks for proving once again just how big of a dumbshit you really are!

so what you are saying is engineers are aware of the effects of thermal expansion and compensated foir it with fire retardant ..is that correct ?
 
So, you come in to attack my character based on one post without finding out why agent hick is on my ignore list? You bring nothing to the discussion what so ever and this is how you validate your existence?

I'm the idiot?? :cuckoo:
:lol:
 

It's true. There have been no changes to the codes for construction. How do i know this?
I have 3 copies of the codes right on my desk for reference from the last 15 years. None since 2001 or after address any of the problem the NIST report claim about thermal expansion.

And seriously? He actually compared the lid on a jar under hot water to a steel structure suffering from thermal expansion? That's fucking rich. :lmao:
 

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