Virginia Halts Concealed Carry Reciprocity With 25 States

[2aguy]

The UK population is about one-fifth of ours and half of our prisons are filled with drug offenders. The prison population in the UK has doubled in the last 20 years. In fact the current prison population is now in the 90,000 area.

Which is actually STILL pretty low for a country with 70 million people. Compare that to the US, where we have 2 million people in prison and another 7 million on probation or parole. Oh, that number has QUADRUPLED since Ronnie Reagan was President.

Hell, in the US, most don't even get fourteen years for rape. Life imprisonment for aggravated burglary? We only give life sentences to murderers in the US.

Thanks to the idiotic "Three Strikes" laws, we've given people life sentences for stealing a slice of Pizza

So, no, the argument that we aren't punishing people hard enough doesn't fly, either.

Very well, lets say what you claim is true. The next question would be why? Why do employers try to avoid interviewing blacks?

I'll give you a hint: an employers favorite color is green. The employee that makes him the most green is that employers favorite employee.

I'll give you a hint. Some of them are racist assholes. Others just simply want to hire people who are like themselves.

But frankly, I've seen enough guys who promote their drinking buddy or hire the girl with the big tits to know that hiring is never done with Spock-like logic. In fact, most companies that I've seen interview by committee these days. The job I just got required four people to interview me in an industry where I am already well known.

So if an employer passes over Jamal to get to Greg, even if Jamal had a nicer resume, I'm usually going to assume racism.

Thanks to the idiotic "Three Strikes" laws, we've given people life sentences for stealing a slice of Pizza

No...they were given life in prison because they proved to society that they are more than willing to keep committing violent crimes even under the threat of a life sentence........they had already committed offences that gave them 2 felony convictions....and they still couldn't control themselves......

 

[JoeB131]

Nope. the U.K. is 2x as violent as the United States and their gun crime rate rose right after the confiscation and is now back where it was before the confiscation...why?

Dick Tiny-

Homicides in the US - 16,121 in 2013
Homicides with guns in the US - 11,208 in the US. (No, I don't want to listen to your cherry picked figures. That's the number I'm going with.)

Guns in the United States — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Homicides in the United Kingdom in 2011 - 653
Homicides with guns in the United Kingdom - 38

Guns in the United Kingdom — Firearms, gun law and gun control

So any argument about any other crime is sort of irrelevent, because we come up with four different categories where the Brits only use one.

 

[JoeB131]

No...they were given life in prison because they proved to society that they are more than willing to keep committing violent crimes even under the threat of a life sentence........they had already committed offences that gave them 2 felony convictions....and they still couldn't control themselves......

It's still a stupid policy. And expensive. for what we pay to lock up a criminal, we could employ him in a manual labor job where he could provide for a family. So the taxpayers are on the hook to look up some scary Pizza-stealing Darkie and a big corporation makes a mint off his labor. And when he gets out, he'll largely be unemployable and will probably commit more crimes.

Feel safer yet?

 

[2aguy]

Nope. the U.K. is 2x as violent as the United States and their gun crime rate rose right after the confiscation and is now back where it was before the confiscation...why?

Dick Tiny-

Homicides in the US - 16,121 in 2013
Homicides with guns in the US - 11,208 in the US. (No, I don't want to listen to your cherry picked figures. That's the number I'm going with.)

Guns in the United States — Firearms, gun law and gun control

Homicides in the United Kingdom in 2011 - 653
Homicides with guns in the United Kingdom - 38

Guns in the United Kingdom — Firearms, gun law and gun control

So any argument about any other crime is sort of irrelevent, because we come up with four different categories where the Brits only use one.

FBI table 8 homicide stats 2014, 8,124.

And as studies show the majority of the shooters in those murders are career violent criminals with long histories of violence and crime shooting other career criminals with long histories of violence and crime.

Our criminals shoot each other more often than U.K. criminals do......but they do seem to like to torture other U.K. subjects, as the hot burglary stats show.

Access to guns is just as easy for criminals in the U.K and it is a fact that their gun crime rate spiked right after they confiscated all of their guns and after about 8 years simply returned to where it was before the confiscation...so they disarmed all of their law abiding citizens, the people not shooting other people, to get gun crime rates exactly where they were before they disarmed everyone.

And with the increase in immigrants, their crime rates all over Europe are going up.

 

[JoeB131]

FBI table 8 homicide stats 2014, 8,124.

Do you suffer from some kind of Tourrette's Syndrome where you repeat the same things over and over again when you can't argue a point.

Point is, the UK has a low crime rate because they don't have a gun industry handing out guns to every nut who wants one.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No...they were given life in prison because they proved to society that they are more than willing to keep committing violent crimes even under the threat of a life sentence........they had already committed offences that gave them 2 felony convictions....and they still couldn't control themselves......

It's still a stupid policy. And expensive. for what we pay to lock up a criminal, we could employ him in a manual labor job where he could provide for a family. So the taxpayers are on the hook to look up some scary Pizza-stealing Darkie and a big corporation makes a mint off his labor. And when he gets out, he'll largely be unemployable and will probably commit more crimes.

Feel safer yet?

He had that opportunity several times before going to prison. He still chose prison. How is that our fault?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The UK population is about one-fifth of ours and half of our prisons are filled with drug offenders. The prison population in the UK has doubled in the last 20 years. In fact the current prison population is now in the 90,000 area.

Which is actually STILL pretty low for a country with 70 million people. Compare that to the US, where we have 2 million people in prison and another 7 million on probation or parole. Oh, that number has QUADRUPLED since Ronnie Reagan was President.

Hell, in the US, most don't even get fourteen years for rape. Life imprisonment for aggravated burglary? We only give life sentences to murderers in the US.

Thanks to the idiotic "Three Strikes" laws, we've given people life sentences for stealing a slice of Pizza

So, no, the argument that we aren't punishing people hard enough doesn't fly, either.

Very well, lets say what you claim is true. The next question would be why? Why do employers try to avoid interviewing blacks?

I'll give you a hint: an employers favorite color is green. The employee that makes him the most green is that employers favorite employee.

I'll give you a hint. Some of them are racist assholes. Others just simply want to hire people who are like themselves.

But frankly, I've seen enough guys who promote their drinking buddy or hire the girl with the big tits to know that hiring is never done with Spock-like logic. In fact, most companies that I've seen interview by committee these days. The job I just got required four people to interview me in an industry where I am already well known.

So if an employer passes over Jamal to get to Greg, even if Jamal had a nicer resume, I'm usually going to assume racism.

Well you would be wrong on that assumption.

I go through the same thing as a landlord. I don't care about the color of a person, all I care about is that they pay rent on time, keep the place clean, and be quiet after 11:00 pm on work nights. The less problem they are for me, the more I value their residency.

However, I cannot say that I'm comfortable renting to blacks. Why? Because they have special laws protecting them that can be a real problem for me even if I'm within my rights.

For instance my Uncle had to go to court several times to protect himself from a discrimination charge by former black tenants. They didn't need any evidence that race was even an issue, only the charge counted.

That takes a lot of time, a lot of money, and you still risk being found guilty because of black judges or juries. In most cases, it's thrown out of court, but again, it's expensive, time consuming and anything can go wrong.

If I rent to white people, I don't have to worry about things like that. If they become a pain in my ass, I just kick them out or raise their rent considerably. I don't have to worry about being dragged into court. My leases are on a month-to-month basis and I can throw them out anytime I desire.

An employer faces the same dilemma. I've seen it with our customers who had black employees. They are in great fear of getting rid of those blacks who are lazy and don't do very much work. If an employer hires a white person, those burdens are lifted from his or her shoulders. If they don't work out, they fire the employee or lay them off. They don't have to worry about being labeled and having to face lawsuits.

 

[2aguy]

FBI table 8 homicide stats 2014, 8,124.

Do you suffer from some kind of Tourrette's Syndrome where you repeat the same things over and over again when you can't argue a point.

Point is, the UK has a low crime rate because they don't have a gun industry handing out guns to every nut who wants one.

No, the U.K. has a higher crime rate than the U.S. their criminals just don't murder each other as often as our criminals murder each other.....

And British criminals can get guns as easily as they want them.....just like the criminals on the continent.

And again, their gun crime rate is the same now as it was before they confiscated their guns from people who didn't use them to commit crimes.

 

[2aguy]

No...they were given life in prison because they proved to society that they are more than willing to keep committing violent crimes even under the threat of a life sentence........they had already committed offences that gave them 2 felony convictions....and they still couldn't control themselves......

It's still a stupid policy. And expensive. for what we pay to lock up a criminal, we could employ him in a manual labor job where he could provide for a family. So the taxpayers are on the hook to look up some scary Pizza-stealing Darkie and a big corporation makes a mint off his labor. And when he gets out, he'll largely be unemployable and will probably commit more crimes.

Feel safer yet?

No...keeping violent sociopaths locked up is less expensive than letting them loose because they won't do manual labor jobs....if they would do them they wouldn't be going to jail for the 3rd time......

 

[2aguy]

No...they were given life in prison because they proved to society that they are more than willing to keep committing violent crimes even under the threat of a life sentence........they had already committed offences that gave them 2 felony convictions....and they still couldn't control themselves......

It's still a stupid policy. And expensive. for what we pay to lock up a criminal, we could employ him in a manual labor job where he could provide for a family. So the taxpayers are on the hook to look up some scary Pizza-stealing Darkie and a big corporation makes a mint off his labor. And when he gets out, he'll largely be unemployable and will probably commit more crimes.

Feel safer yet?

Yeah...and about that pizza slice guy...and the truth about 3 strikes...

Three Strikes Laws: The Myth of Jerry DeWayne Williams and His Pizza Slice |

Here is professor Jennifer Walsh, writing in late 2002:

Here is professor Jennifer Walsh, writing in late 2002:

tatistics indicate that discretion in three strike cases is invoked frequently and consistently. A 1998 survey of California District Attorneys revealed that prosecutors in urban jurisdictions use discretion in approximately 20-40 percent of eligible cases [now higher] . . . An evaluation of judicial discretion exercised in San Diego County found that judges exercised discretion in 29 percent of eligible three strike cases. They were also 100 percent more likely to use discretion if the triggering offense was minor. Moreover, judges were more likely to strike a prior strike if the defendant had no history of violence and no history of weapons possession or weapons use. Perhaps most reassuring is the data that shows that in San Diego County, over half of the initial third strike filings that involved a minor third strike offense were later downgraded to second strike offenses. This exercise of discretion by prosecutors and judges prevented these defendants from receiving the enhanced sentence when they were perceived as undeserving. Findings like these confirm that the judicious exercise of discretion under the California three strikes law creates a safeguard for defendants who are technically eligible for the mandatory sentence, but whose past and present conduct is considered to be outside the spirit of the law.

Read that paragraph carefully, because you’re not going to see it in the news, where reporters simply cut and paste rhetoric from various activist groups, wildly misrepresenting the law itself. Professor Walsh notes that those subjected to California’s three-strikes law generally had violent or serious crimes as their third offense:

State statistics indicate that the third strikers in prison include 294 for murder; 34 for manslaughter; 1,408 for robbery; 356 for assault with a deadly weapon; 416 for other assaults or battery; 136 for rape; 241 for lewd act upon a child; 136 for other sex offenses; 83 for kidnapping; 776 for residential burglary; 288 for possession of drugs for sale; 191 for sale of drugs, 28 for manufacturing drugs; 356 for weapons-possession; and 25 for arson.



'Pizza thief' walks the line

Williams -- dubbed the "pizza thief" -- became an iconic symbol in the political and ideological battle over California's push to get tough on crime. But as the public furor over his case subsided, Williams persuaded a judge to reduce his prison term, and he was quietly released after a little more than five years behind bars.

 

[JoeB131]

[

He had that opportunity several times before going to prison. He still chose prison. How is that our fault?

I would joke that we don't shoot Jaywalkers, but then I remember that's exactly what they shot Mike Brown for doing.

Okay, guy, no one needs to go to prison for life for stealing a slice of Pizza. that's fucking crazy. And it's wasteful. Putting PIzza guy in jail for offense #3 means you let Rape-boy out for Offense #1. That's just fucking nuts.

Yeah...and about that pizza slice guy...and the truth about 3 strikes...

Why did you strike all the text out?

Anyway, five years for stealing a slice of pizza is EQUALLY fucking insane. And they wouldn't have let him out at all if someone hadn't pointed out, "Yeah, man, this is crazy! A Slice of Pizza?"

 

[JoeB131]

No...keeping violent sociopaths locked up is less expensive than letting them loose because they won't do manual labor jobs....if they would do them they wouldn't be going to jail for the 3rd time......

How is it AMerica has 2 million violent sociopaths who need to be locked up and the UK only has 60,000? Germany only has 78,000. Japan has only 69,000.

Hmmmmm.... Maybe it's something in the water here.

 

[Dot Com]

We have enough gun nuts to go around here in the Old Dominion. We don't need any more trigger-happy Yahoos making it worse

 

[JoeB131]

Well you would be wrong on that assumption.

I go through the same thing as a landlord. I don't care about the color of a person, all I care about is that they pay rent on time, keep the place clean, and be quiet after 11:00 pm on work nights. The less problem they are for me, the more I value their residency.

However, I cannot say that I'm comfortable renting to blacks. Why? Because they have special laws protecting them that can be a real problem for me even if I'm within my rights.

For instance my Uncle had to go to court several times to protect himself from a discrimination charge by former black tenants. They didn't need any evidence that race was even an issue, only the charge counted.

That takes a lot of time, a lot of money, and you still risk being found guilty because of black judges or juries. In most cases, it's thrown out of court, but again, it's expensive, time consuming and anything can go wrong.

If I rent to white people, I don't have to worry about things like that. If they become a pain in my ass, I just kick them out or raise their rent considerably. I don't have to worry about being dragged into court. My leases are on a month-to-month basis and I can throw them out anytime I desire.

I owned rental property between 1987 and 2000. The most fucked up tenants I had were white people who pulled a "Midnight move" owing me two months rent. Oh, yeah, and they had a big old Confederate Flag in their living room. That was classy. But we were talking about jobs, not rentals... SO let's try to get back to that, okay?

An employer faces the same dilemma. I've seen it with our customers who had black employees. They are in great fear of getting rid of those blacks who are lazy and don't do very much work. If an employer hires a white person, those burdens are lifted from his or her shoulders. If they don't work out, they fire the employee or lay them off. They don't have to worry about being labeled and having to face lawsuits.

Frankly, I've seen employers fire black folks without much of a second thought. One black lady I worked with was the one who got fired so that Mr. Mid Life Crisis could rehire his young drinking buddy to be a "Production Scheduler", a job he had no qualifications to do.

I've seen another lady who was fired when management realized she was gay. I personally got let go after having medical issues.

So frankly, I really don't believe employers when they make any claims.

strikes me if you have an employee who isn't motivated, you kind of suck as a manager.

 

[Dont Taz Me Bro]

If you are an Alabama wife beater, don't be going to Virginia with a gun. Y'all hear now?

I live in Nevada, but my CWP is from South Carolina because that is where I lived when I had it issued. Nevada has a reciprocity agreement with South Carolina so my CWP is good here until it expires in 2017. If the State Attorney General suddenly decreed Nevada would no longer honor CWPs from SC suddenly I'd no longer legally be able to carry despite the fact I've only ever fired either of my guns at a gun range and I've never been arrested for anything in my life.

As I said before, I suspect this is nothing more than a lame attempt by a gun grabbing leftist to push an agenda they can't win on when it comes to a vote by the people and you, for what ever reason, seem to be swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.

I'm also curious how the Attorney General of Virginia can suddenly just wave his hand and declare this. In Nevada, these agreements are voted on by the legislature. His action may not even be legal.

Sounds like it wouldn't be terribly difficult for you to get one issued by Nevada if your SC card became void... and it sounds like you would have no problem passing a national standard for a permit.

I think that's the point and I think that a national standard that all the states can recognize is a good idea both for folks like you who obey the law, and for the folks who work in law enforcement trying to deal with the assholes who don't.

I agree. Being the right to bear arms is in the Bill of Rights, there should be a national standard, but you're never going to get the blue state representatives to agree to one. They already tried to pass a nation concealed carry bill a few years ago and it died in the Senate because a couple of Republicans wouldn't go along.

 

[Dot Com]

If you are an Alabama wife beater, don't be going to Virginia with a gun. Y'all hear now?

I live in Nevada, but my CWP is from South Carolina because that is where I lived when I had it issued. Nevada has a reciprocity agreement with South Carolina so my CWP is good here until it expires in 2017. If the State Attorney General suddenly decreed Nevada would no longer honor CWPs from SC suddenly I'd no longer legally be able to carry despite the fact I've only ever fired either of my guns at a gun range and I've never been arrested for anything in my life.

As I said before, I suspect this is nothing more than a lame attempt by a gun grabbing leftist to push an agenda they can't win on when it comes to a vote by the people and you, for what ever reason, seem to be swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.

I'm also curious how the Attorney General of Virginia can suddenly just wave his hand and declare this. In Nevada, these agreements are voted on by the legislature. His action may not even be legal.

Sounds like it wouldn't be terribly difficult for you to get one issued by Nevada if your SC card became void... and it sounds like you would have no problem passing a national standard for a permit.

I think that's the point and I think that a national standard that all the states can recognize is a good idea both for folks like you who obey the law, and for the folks who work in law enforcement trying to deal with the assholes who don't.

I agree. Being the right to bear arms is in the Bill of Rights, there should be a national standard, but you're never going to get the blue state representatives to agree to one. They already tried to pass a nation concealed carry bill a few years ago and it died in the Senate because a couple of Republicans wouldn't go along.

theres a diff between a flintlock & a Bushmaster. Even the rw Justice Scalia noted the obvious in that regard in Hellar

Scalia agrees with Kagan that Second Amendment rights are "not unlimited"

The majority opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller, which was written by Scalia and joined by the Supreme Court's most conservative members, stated:

Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.

 

[2aguy]

If you are an Alabama wife beater, don't be going to Virginia with a gun. Y'all hear now?

I live in Nevada, but my CWP is from South Carolina because that is where I lived when I had it issued. Nevada has a reciprocity agreement with South Carolina so my CWP is good here until it expires in 2017. If the State Attorney General suddenly decreed Nevada would no longer honor CWPs from SC suddenly I'd no longer legally be able to carry despite the fact I've only ever fired either of my guns at a gun range and I've never been arrested for anything in my life.

As I said before, I suspect this is nothing more than a lame attempt by a gun grabbing leftist to push an agenda they can't win on when it comes to a vote by the people and you, for what ever reason, seem to be swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.

I'm also curious how the Attorney General of Virginia can suddenly just wave his hand and declare this. In Nevada, these agreements are voted on by the legislature. His action may not even be legal.

Sounds like it wouldn't be terribly difficult for you to get one issued by Nevada if your SC card became void... and it sounds like you would have no problem passing a national standard for a permit.

I think that's the point and I think that a national standard that all the states can recognize is a good idea both for folks like you who obey the law, and for the folks who work in law enforcement trying to deal with the assholes who don't.

I agree. Being the right to bear arms is in the Bill of Rights, there should be a national standard, but you're never going to get the blue state representatives to agree to one. They already tried to pass a nation concealed carry bill a few years ago and it died in the Senate because a couple of Republicans wouldn't go along.

theres a diff between a flintlock & a Bushmaster. Even the rw Justice Scalia noted the obvious in that regard in Hellar

Scalia agrees with Kagan that Second Amendment rights are "not unlimited"

The majority opinion in District of Columbia v. Heller, which was written by Scalia and joined by the Supreme Court's most conservative members, stated:

Like most rights, the right secured by the Second Amendment is not unlimited. From Blackstone through the 19th-century cases, commentators and courts routinely explained that the right was not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose.

There it is again.....you guys see the phrase
"Rights are not unlimited...." and you think that means everything short of complete confiscation is not just an option but is directed by Heller........

Yes....and that is why we don't allow people to carry suitcase nukes.....

 

[AVG-JOE]

If you are an Alabama wife beater, don't be going to Virginia with a gun. Y'all hear now?

I live in Nevada, but my CWP is from South Carolina because that is where I lived when I had it issued. Nevada has a reciprocity agreement with South Carolina so my CWP is good here until it expires in 2017. If the State Attorney General suddenly decreed Nevada would no longer honor CWPs from SC suddenly I'd no longer legally be able to carry despite the fact I've only ever fired either of my guns at a gun range and I've never been arrested for anything in my life.

As I said before, I suspect this is nothing more than a lame attempt by a gun grabbing leftist to push an agenda they can't win on when it comes to a vote by the people and you, for what ever reason, seem to be swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.

I'm also curious how the Attorney General of Virginia can suddenly just wave his hand and declare this. In Nevada, these agreements are voted on by the legislature. His action may not even be legal.

Sounds like it wouldn't be terribly difficult for you to get one issued by Nevada if your SC card became void... and it sounds like you would have no problem passing a national standard for a permit.

I think that's the point and I think that a national standard that all the states can recognize is a good idea both for folks like you who obey the law, and for the folks who work in law enforcement trying to deal with the assholes who don't.

I agree. Being the right to bear arms is in the Bill of Rights, there should be a national standard, but you're never going to get the blue state representatives to agree to one. They already tried to pass a nation concealed carry bill a few years ago and it died in the Senate because a couple of Republicans wouldn't go along.

I don't have a FL card yet, but I'm considering it for 2016.

It's strange... some national standards would solve a lot of problems. The drawback is that a database is required and privacy is an issue.

On the other hand... I trust the federal government as least as much as I trust the good ol' boys currently running The Great State Of Florida.

Fuck knows I trust them both with my personal records a hell of a lot more than I trust some corporation that can be sold to another corporation now headquartered in Dubai.



I'd love see a federal weapons permit along with a rule that says that if you put a gun in the hands of someone with out one, and they shoot someone with malice, you're fucked.

`​

 

[The Rabbi]

If you are an Alabama wife beater, don't be going to Virginia with a gun. Y'all hear now?

I live in Nevada, but my CWP is from South Carolina because that is where I lived when I had it issued. Nevada has a reciprocity agreement with South Carolina so my CWP is good here until it expires in 2017. If the State Attorney General suddenly decreed Nevada would no longer honor CWPs from SC suddenly I'd no longer legally be able to carry despite the fact I've only ever fired either of my guns at a gun range and I've never been arrested for anything in my life.

As I said before, I suspect this is nothing more than a lame attempt by a gun grabbing leftist to push an agenda they can't win on when it comes to a vote by the people and you, for what ever reason, seem to be swallowing it hook, line, and sinker.

I'm also curious how the Attorney General of Virginia can suddenly just wave his hand and declare this. In Nevada, these agreements are voted on by the legislature. His action may not even be legal.

Sounds like it wouldn't be terribly difficult for you to get one issued by Nevada if your SC card became void... and it sounds like you would have no problem passing a national standard for a permit.

I think that's the point and I think that a national standard that all the states can recognize is a good idea both for folks like you who obey the law, and for the folks who work in law enforcement trying to deal with the assholes who don't.

I agree. Being the right to bear arms is in the Bill of Rights, there should be a national standard, but you're never going to get the blue state representatives to agree to one. They already tried to pass a nation concealed carry bill a few years ago and it died in the Senate because a couple of Republicans wouldn't go along.

I don't have a FL card yet, but I'm considering it for 2016.

It's strange... some national standards would solve a lot of problems. The drawback is that a database is required and privacy is an issue.

On the other hand I trust the federal government as least as much as I trust the good ol' boys currently running The Great State Of Florida.

Fuck knows I trust them both with my personal records a hell of a lot more than I trust some corporation that can be sold to another corporation now headquartered in Dubai.



I'd love see a federal weapons permit along with a rule that says that if you put a gun in the hands of someone with out one, and they shoot someone with malice, you're fucked.

`​

You trust the federal government? The same government that admitted its personnel files including agents has been hacked?

 

[AVG-JOE]

I like keeping my IRS records with an organization I get a vote in.