Voter Fraud

[BDBoop]

Voter ID is the poster child for a solution in search of a problem. There is almost no voter fraud. If it were such a rampant problem we would have the courts flooded with cases. We have almost none. Certainly common mistakes result in more erroneous votes cast than fraudulent ones.

As opposition mounts the Republicans are now reduced to saying that everyone already has ID so what is the problem? Good question.

There is the distinction of voter registration fraud vs actual fraudulent voting. Registration fraud rarely results in a fraudulent vote. To state that it does either represents ignorance of how voting works or simply a desire to deceive.

To get enough fraudulent votes to matter is a really daunting task. It can occur only where there is rampant corruption, places like Chicago in the fifties where the Daily machine had control of precincts. It is labor intensive and it is illegal. Unless you are quite sure of yourself you just may go to jail.

Voter fraud is just too much trouble and fraught with risk for the reward involved.

So what's a sleazy politician to do? Easy! Suppression. That is the wave of the future. It is easy. It is legal. In fact you can get the justice system to work for you by passing laws that make it more difficult to vote. Pass a voter ID law. Now all you have to do is make the rules and utilize just a little imagination. Just a few targeted rules and regulation can get you better results than fraud ever could.

Of course it really helps if you have your party in office to implement things. Little things. Limit the availability of the ID process. Have it done at as few places as possible so folks have to go a long ways. This will cut down the number of old people, young people and those without transportation. (sound like the democratic base?) Restrict your hours for issuance. It really works wonders if people come to get an ID and the office is closed. They probably won't come back. By all means make the process from application to issuance as long as possible.

Then come election time there are other creative things you can do. Limit the number of polling places in poor and young areas. Make sure there are lines. Young folks are very impatient and it is difficult for old folks to stand around that long. Maybe it will be possible to arrange things so these lines must be outside. Who knows god may grant you a snow or rainstorm. Either forbid or discourage same day registration. Again, difficult is better.

In my state the GOP is making noises about requiring students to vote in their home districts. This tells you what it is all really about. Not only their with state photo ID but in their home district and who cares how far that is from their school.

Voter fraud? That is so..................yesterday. Suppression, that is the name of the game.

Excellent post.

 

[syrenn]

Voter ID is the poster child for a solution in search of a problem. There is almost no voter fraud. If it were such a rampant problem we would have the courts flooded with cases. We have almost none. Certainly common mistakes result in more erroneous votes cast than fraudulent ones.

As opposition mounts the Republicans are now reduced to saying that everyone already has ID so what is the problem? Good question.

There is the distinction of voter registration fraud vs actual fraudulent voting. Registration fraud rarely results in a fraudulent vote. To state that it does either represents ignorance of how voting works or simply a desire to deceive.

To get enough fraudulent votes to matter is a really daunting task. It can occur only where there is rampant corruption, places like Chicago in the fifties where the Daily machine had control of precincts. It is labor intensive and it is illegal. Unless you are quite sure of yourself you just may go to jail.

Voter fraud is just too much trouble and fraught with risk for the reward involved.

So what's a sleazy politician to do? Easy! Suppression. That is the wave of the future. It is easy. It is legal. In fact you can get the justice system to work for you by passing laws that make it more difficult to vote. Pass a voter ID law. Now all you have to do is make the rules and utilize just a little imagination. Just a few targeted rules and regulation can get you better results than fraud ever could.

Of course it really helps if you have your party in office to implement things. Little things. Limit the availability of the ID process. Have it done at as few places as possible so folks have to go a long ways. This will cut down the number of old people, young people and those without transportation. (sound like the democratic base?) Restrict your hours for issuance. It really works wonders if people come to get an ID and the office is closed. They probably won't come back. By all means make the process from application to issuance as long as possible.

Then come election time there are other creative things you can do. Limit the number of polling places in poor and young areas. Make sure there are lines. Young folks are very impatient and it is difficult for old folks to stand around that long. Maybe it will be possible to arrange things so these lines must be outside. Who knows god may grant you a snow or rainstorm. Either forbid or discourage same day registration. Again, difficult is better.

In my state the GOP is making noises about requiring students to vote in their home districts. This tells you what it is all really about. Not only their with state photo ID but in their home district and who cares how far that is from their school.

Voter fraud? That is so..................yesterday. Suppression, that is the name of the game.

Fraud is fraud.

It does not matter if there is "almost none"

 

[WillowTree]

No fraud. No supression.. now that's a compromise. clean and simple.

 

[Intense]

Here are the facts related to voter fraud:

People seemingly voting after they've been dead for years.

You mean like this Republican right here:Pinal County supervisor hopeful John Enright quits
???

There's an easy fix to that. Remove dead voters from the rolls.

Drug kingpins buying votes from poor people to sway elections. Non-citizens being bussed to the polls and coached on how to vote.

.
Those aren't even sentences.

I totally agree with you. There is no room for corruption in the Election System, from any source.

 

[onecut39]

Voter ID is the poster child for a solution in search of a problem. There is almost no voter fraud. If it were such a rampant problem we would have the courts flooded with cases. We have almost none. Certainly common mistakes result in more erroneous votes cast than fraudulent ones.

As opposition mounts the Republicans are now reduced to saying that everyone already has ID so what is the problem? Good question.

There is the distinction of voter registration fraud vs actual fraudulent voting. Registration fraud rarely results in a fraudulent vote. To state that it does either represents ignorance of how voting works or simply a desire to deceive.

To get enough fraudulent votes to matter is a really daunting task. It can occur only where there is rampant corruption, places like Chicago in the fifties where the Daily machine had control of precincts. It is labor intensive and it is illegal. Unless you are quite sure of yourself you just may go to jail.

Voter fraud is just too much trouble and fraught with risk for the reward involved.

So what's a sleazy politician to do? Easy! Suppression. That is the wave of the future. It is easy. It is legal. In fact you can get the justice system to work for you by passing laws that make it more difficult to vote. Pass a voter ID law. Now all you have to do is make the rules and utilize just a little imagination. Just a few targeted rules and regulation can get you better results than fraud ever could.

Of course it really helps if you have your party in office to implement things. Little things. Limit the availability of the ID process. Have it done at as few places as possible so folks have to go a long ways. This will cut down the number of old people, young people and those without transportation. (sound like the democratic base?) Restrict your hours for issuance. It really works wonders if people come to get an ID and the office is closed. They probably won't come back. By all means make the process from application to issuance as long as possible.

Then come election time there are other creative things you can do. Limit the number of polling places in poor and young areas. Make sure there are lines. Young folks are very impatient and it is difficult for old folks to stand around that long. Maybe it will be possible to arrange things so these lines must be outside. Who knows god may grant you a snow or rainstorm. Either forbid or discourage same day registration. Again, difficult is better.

In my state the GOP is making nIt would appear they are getting somethinoises about requiring students to vote in their home districts. This tells you what it is all really about. Not only their with state photo ID but in their home district and who cares how far that is from their school.

Voter fraud? That is so..................yesterday. Suppression, that is the name of the game.

Fraud is fraud.

It does not matter if there is "almost none"

If there is almost no fraud only a damn fool would spend the millions of bucks necessary to fully implement voter ID.

It would appear they are getting something else for their money.

 

[Vidi]

Voter ID is the poster child for a solution in search of a problem. There is almost no voter fraud. If it were such a rampant problem we would have the courts flooded with cases. We have almost none. Certainly common mistakes result in more erroneous votes cast than fraudulent ones.

As opposition mounts the Republicans are now reduced to saying that everyone already has ID so what is the problem? Good question.

There is the distinction of voter registration fraud vs actual fraudulent voting. Registration fraud rarely results in a fraudulent vote. To state that it does either represents ignorance of how voting works or simply a desire to deceive.

To get enough fraudulent votes to matter is a really daunting task. It can occur only where there is rampant corruption, places like Chicago in the fifties where the Daily machine had control of precincts. It is labor intensive and it is illegal. Unless you are quite sure of yourself you just may go to jail.

Voter fraud is just too much trouble and fraught with risk for the reward involved.

So what's a sleazy politician to do? Easy! Suppression. That is the wave of the future. It is easy. It is legal. In fact you can get the justice system to work for you by passing laws that make it more difficult to vote. Pass a voter ID law. Now all you have to do is make the rules and utilize just a little imagination. Just a few targeted rules and regulation can get you better results than fraud ever could.

Of course it really helps if you have your party in office to implement things. Little things. Limit the availability of the ID process. Have it done at as few places as possible so folks have to go a long ways. This will cut down the number of old people, young people and those without transportation. (sound like the democratic base?) Restrict your hours for issuance. It really works wonders if people come to get an ID and the office is closed. They probably won't come back. By all means make the process from application to issuance as long as possible.

Then come election time there are other creative things you can do. Limit the number of polling places in poor and young areas. Make sure there are lines. Young folks are very impatient and it is difficult for old folks to stand around that long. Maybe it will be possible to arrange things so these lines must be outside. Who knows god may grant you a snow or rainstorm. Either forbid or discourage same day registration. Again, difficult is better.

In my state the GOP is making noises about requiring students to vote in their home districts. This tells you what it is all really about. Not only their with state photo ID but in their home district and who cares how far that is from their school.

Voter fraud? That is so..................yesterday. Suppression, that is the name of the game.

Fraud is fraud.

It does not matter if there is "almost none"

Actually it does.

One has to take into account the cost of the fix versus the cost of the actual problem.

If there were 500 cases of voter fraud every four years, but the margin is always more than a million votes, then those 500 cost us nothing and the cost of fixing for those few cases would be cost prohibitive.

BUT, if voter fraud is rampant, in the millions, then the cost of NOT fixing the problem would be greater.

 

[oldernwiser]

Voter ID is the poster child for a solution in search of a problem. There is almost no voter fraud. If it were such a rampant problem we would have the courts flooded with cases. We have almost none. Certainly common mistakes result in more erroneous votes cast than fraudulent ones.

As opposition mounts the Republicans are now reduced to saying that everyone already has ID so what is the problem? Good question.

There is the distinction of voter registration fraud vs actual fraudulent voting. Registration fraud rarely results in a fraudulent vote. To state that it does either represents ignorance of how voting works or simply a desire to deceive.

To get enough fraudulent votes to matter is a really daunting task. It can occur only where there is rampant corruption, places like Chicago in the fifties where the Daily machine had control of precincts. It is labor intensive and it is illegal. Unless you are quite sure of yourself you just may go to jail.

Voter fraud is just too much trouble and fraught with risk for the reward involved.

So what's a sleazy politician to do? Easy! Suppression. That is the wave of the future. It is easy. It is legal. In fact you can get the justice system to work for you by passing laws that make it more difficult to vote. Pass a voter ID law. Now all you have to do is make the rules and utilize just a little imagination. Just a few targeted rules and regulation can get you better results than fraud ever could.

Of course it really helps if you have your party in office to implement things. Little things. Limit the availability of the ID process. Have it done at as few places as possible so folks have to go a long ways. This will cut down the number of old people, young people and those without transportation. (sound like the democratic base?) Restrict your hours for issuance. It really works wonders if people come to get an ID and the office is closed. They probably won't come back. By all means make the process from application to issuance as long as possible.

Then come election time there are other creative things you can do. Limit the number of polling places in poor and young areas. Make sure there are lines. Young folks are very impatient and it is difficult for old folks to stand around that long. Maybe it will be possible to arrange things so these lines must be outside. Who knows god may grant you a snow or rainstorm. Either forbid or discourage same day registration. Again, difficult is better.

In my state the GOP is making noises about requiring students to vote in their home districts. This tells you what it is all really about. Not only their with state photo ID but in their home district and who cares how far that is from their school.

Voter fraud? That is so..................yesterday. Suppression, that is the name of the game.

Fraud is fraud.

It does not matter if there is "almost none"

Actually it does.

One has to take into account the cost of the fix versus the cost of the actual problem.

If there were 500 cases of voter fraud every four years, but the margin is always more than a million votes, then those 500 cost us nothing and the cost of fixing for those few cases would be cost prohibitive.

BUT, if voter fraud is rampant, in the millions, then the cost of NOT fixing the problem would be greater.

Here's where the numbers come back to bite. A worst case of 9 errant votes for every million votes cast means that in a presidential election with an awesome turnout of 250 million ballots, 2250 of those votes could be statistically suspect. That's an average of 45 votes per state.

Miniscule at best. Hardly an election decider in even the closest of races.

On the other hand, a voter ID card could be faked with moderate skill. Corruption of officials isn't unheard of either. Either way, there is nothing to stop a determined person from defrauding the election process.

I'm all for solving a problem when one exists. But if it ain't broke, leave it alone. Our current registration system has held the impact of POTENTIAL fraud to such a low statistical number that voter fraud is a non-issue.

As alluded to earlier, election manipulation is another story and has more to do with the political parties involved than with the electorate.

 

[JakeStarkey]

There is no voter fraud problem of any minor let major significance.

Recognizing that fact does not mean that having a valid Voter ID is somehow a bad idea.

 

[onecut39]

There is no voter fraud problem of any minor let major significance.

Recognizing that fact does not mean that having a valid Voter ID is somehow a bad idea.

It is if it ends up suppressing the vote.

 

[Foxfyre]

There is a solution that would not cost the state much, if anything at all, and will fix the problem.

1. Expect people to get themselves to the county or city clerk's office to register to vote. They will need positive ID and some evidence (a utility bill or the mortgage papers for their new home or whatever) that they live in their precinct in order to do that.

2. Expect them to register to vote at least two weeks (four to six would be better) prior to election day in order to be able to vote.

3. Assign each voter the proper precinct and have them show positive ID when they check in there to vote on election day.

4. If they move out of their precinct, they will need to go re-register to vote.

This was the system in almost all of the country for a long, long time, and though a few dead people still managed to vote before there was photo I.D., the system was about as honest and secure as one could make it among large groups of imperfect human beings.

Also we had a much better informed electorate because people who really cared were the ones who took the responsibility to register and then get themselves to the polls on election day. There were still a few absentee ballots for those who could not be in their precinct on election day, but most of us arranged our schedules so we would be sure to be able to vote.

Voting is a privilege of a free people and should never been done casually or in ignorance. Let's go back to a system where people are expected to take the responsibility to exercise their right to vote intentionally, and get away from this nonsense of thinking voting is noble even when people don't have a clue who they are voting for or why or when they have been bribed or paid to vote.

 

[Borillar]

I think you meant to say 'here are the facts on voter fraud as presented by my side of the aisle.'

There is not, and has not been, enough voter fraud to legitimize disenfranchising huge numbers of legitimate voters.

Are there really huge numbers of legitimate voters that have no form of ID? I had an ID card starting back in High School. I've had to get state issued driver's licenses, a military ID, a passport, even work ID's. My parents had ID's and my kids have ID's. Why is having an ID a big deal?

That said, is this really a big issue, or more of a solution looking for a problem? How many cases of validated voter fraud have been tried?

 

[JakeStarkey]

That would be the voters' decisions.

There is no constitutional, statutory prohibition to requiring one.

There is no voter fraud problem of any minor let major significance.

Recognizing that fact does not mean that having a valid Voter ID is somehow a bad idea.

It is if it ends up suppressing the vote.

 

[Intense]

Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections
Harper v. Virginia Board of Elections


We conclude that a State violates the Equal Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment whenever it makes the affluence of the voter or payment of any fee an electoral standard.

Regardless of what the 9th may think in this matter, any fee that a voter may pay for the sole purpose of voting is a "poll tax" and violates the 24th amendment as well as the 14th. These Voter ID laws do not combat fraud because the instances of fraud from them to combat is virtually nonexistant, and had it been such an issue as these states may claim, then it would have been so prior to this election. In fact if these laws keep one American from voting simply because they cannot afford the documentation to obatain these ID's then they have taken away that person(s) right to express themselves under several constitutional Amendments.

Except that, there is NO fee in any capacity. The ID's are given free if someone doesn't already have one (and who on God's green earth does not already have an ID of some kind?!?!?). So this is a false accusation by the left. The question is, why does the left insist on making these false accusations and encouraging voter fraud?

With the exception of those fees needed to aquire those documents and here, I'll give you an example.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WjySbloc7zA]97-Year-Old Arizona Woman Disenfranchised by Voter ID Law - YouTube[/ame]

While I appreciate the need to combat voter fraud and it is not just a left or right thing as the Sec. of State of Indiana will tell you who was recently convicted on voter fraud counts and he is a (R). the instances of voter fraud overall do not support the need for such laws and of course I would be willing to change my mind on that if I could see data that would support it otherwise. I just happen to think its just as wrong to keep Americans, good an honest , and decent people like the one in the video there, from voting as it is to try and keep a small number of people from committing fraud. I have no real issue with IDs in general and have said as much many times , and tend to feel that if the intention here were to simply have an ID to vote then the process would be uniform and simple and totally free from start to finish which it clearly is not.

Looking at that, She seems like a Special Circumstance that should be straightened out through the Court. It seems like something a Judge should be able to easily resolve.

 

[P@triot]

More overwhelming evidence that the left is LYING about the voter fraud problem:

160 COUNTIES HAVE MORE REGISTERED VOTERS THAN RESIDENTS

True the Vote Sends Notice to 160 Counties It Says Have More Than 100 Percent Voter Registration | TheBlaze.com

 

[theDoctorisIn]

More overwhelming evidence that the left is LYING about the voter fraud problem:

160 COUNTIES HAVE MORE REGISTERED VOTERS THAN RESIDENTS

True the Vote Sends Notice to 160 Counties It Says Have More Than 100 Percent Voter Registration | TheBlaze.com

People die all the time. There's no "automatic" way for people who die to be taken off voter rolls.

There's no big conspiracy, it's just a simple fact. People die - that's why there are more registered voters than residents.

 

[auditor0007]

I think you meant to say 'here are the facts on voter fraud as presented by my side of the aisle.'

There is not, and has not been, enough voter fraud to legitimize disenfranchising huge numbers of legitimate voters.

Where are your sources to back up your allegation? I posted a link to some concrete numbers.

Furthermore, why is your side of the aisle so afraid of this issue? If it stops even 1 vote that was fraudulent, I would think everyone would support that. Unless, of course, your the side behind the fraud.

The state of Georgia has actually seen a major increase in minority voting since requiring proper identification.

Trying to make the case that people shouldn't have to prove who they are before casting a vote is as asinine as trying to make a case that murder should be legalized. This is just stupid. I know the left is desperate, but you would think they would come up with a better argument than it should be ok to have voter fraud.

There is no evidence of any real fraud. That is the problem. If you could produce real facts as to where voter fraud has occurred, then please show us. I really don't have an issue with requiring an ID, so long as there is some system in place to allow people who forgot or lost their ID to vote by signing an affidavit. So long as every eligible voter is guaranteed the right to vote, states can require whatever they want as far as ID's are concerned.

 

[Foxfyre]

I think you meant to say 'here are the facts on voter fraud as presented by my side of the aisle.'

There is not, and has not been, enough voter fraud to legitimize disenfranchising huge numbers of legitimate voters.

Are there really huge numbers of legitimate voters that have no form of ID? I had an ID card starting back in High School. I've had to get state issued driver's licenses, a military ID, a passport, even work ID's. My parents had ID's and my kids have ID's. Why is having an ID a big deal?

That said, is this really a big issue, or more of a solution looking for a problem? How many cases of validated voter fraud have been tried?

Maybe fewer than some of us think. A lot more than those opposing Voter I.D. will admit:

Twelve thousand noncitizens registered to vote in Colorado; apparently 5,000 of those voted in 2010. A recent report in North Carolina by James O'Keefe's Project Veritas (of ACORN-undercover expose` fame) compared records of registered voters to prospective jurors disqualified due to noncitizenship, but who then voted in North Carolina in 2010. The State of Florida is suing the Department of Homeland Security to obtain a list of noncitizens in order to purge the state's voter rolls before the 2012 election, and was just sued in return by the Barack Obama-Eric Holder Department of Justice with a lawsuit for purging its rolls, which is required by federal law.

[Peter Roff: Obama Administration's Texas Decision Invites Voter Fraud]

Despite the steady reports of election fraud cases, updated regularly on the Republican National Lawyers Association "Vote Fraud Map," there persists a left-wing, Democratic Party-led drumbeat of "vote fraud deniers," who ignore the cases and complain loudly that there is no vote fraud.
Voter Fraud Deniers Ignore the Facts | Debate Club | US News Opinion

 

[Intense]

There is no voter fraud problem of any minor let major significance.

Recognizing that fact does not mean that having a valid Voter ID is somehow a bad idea.

If there was, with under reporting and discouragement from reporting it, you would never know.

 

[Intense]

That argument becomes much harder to make after reading a discussion of the 2008 Minnesota Senate race in "Who's Counting?", a new book by conservative journalist John Fund and former Bush Justice Department official Hans von Spakovsky. Although the authors cover the whole range of voter fraud issues, their chapter on Minnesota is enough to convince any skeptic that there are times when voter fraud not only exists but can be critical to the outcome of a critical race.

In the '08 campaign, Republican Sen. Norm Coleman was running for re-election against Democrat Al Franken. It was impossibly close; on the morning after the election, after 2.9 million people had voted, Coleman led Franken by 725 votes.

Franken and his Democratic allies dispatched an army of lawyers to challenge the results. After the first canvass, Coleman's lead was down to 206 votes. That was followed by months of wrangling and litigation. In the end, Franken was declared the winner by 312 votes. He was sworn into office in July 2009, eight months after the election.

During the controversy a conservative group called Minnesota Majority began to look into claims of voter fraud. Comparing criminal records with voting rolls, the group identified 1,099 felons -- all ineligible to vote -- who had voted in the Franken-Coleman race.

Minnesota Majority took the information to prosecutors across the state, many of whom showed no interest in pursuing it. But Minnesota law requires authorities to investigate such leads. And so far, Fund and von Spakovsky report, 177 people have been convicted -- not just accused, but convicted -- of voting fraudulently in the Senate race. Another 66 are awaiting trial. "The numbers aren't greater," the authors say, "because the standard for convicting someone of voter fraud in Minnesota is that they must have been both ineligible, and 'knowingly' voted unlawfully." The accused can get off by claiming not to have known they did anything wrong.

York: When 1,099 felons vote in race won by 312 ballots | WashingtonExaminer.com

 

[Intense]

According to an investigation conducted by Horace Cooper, adjunct fellow with Project 21, voter fraud research conducted in New York shows that targeted victims include public housing residents, college students, the semi-literate, a deaf man, the chronically ill, and non-English speakers.

Horace Cooper (Project 21)"Essentially what we've done is shown that it is a lie to claim that if you require ID, it hurts poor people, or it hurts seniors, or any other sort of disenfranchised groups," Cooper tells OneNewsNow. "It turns out that those are the people that are most often targeted and have their votes snatched from them as a result of voter fraud."

Voter fraud plots prey upon the weakest members of society. They violate the public's trust, erode faith and confidence in the democratic process, and ultimately disenfranchise men and women -- both rich and poor -- whose votes should be rightfully counted.

"This is the irony," Cooper remarks. "[Liberals] claim that pushing voter ID is anti-the least among us, but it turns out the facts show otherwise. If you don't have voter ID, it is the least among us who are most often manipulated, who are most often taken advantage of, and who most often have their rights of self-determination snatched right from under them."

As for the allegations about black Americans being unfairly penalized by voter integrity measures like voter ID laws, Cooper notes that black voter turnout increased in Georgia after the state adopted a voter ID law.

Who do voter ID laws really hurt? (OneNewsNow.com)