Walter Cronkite's Ridiculous Spin on the 1968 Tet Offensive in South Vietnam

[Hector12]

He was not elected

Would have is irrelevant.

It was justified because he was the aggressor.

I have already quoted President Eisenhower and the Geneva Agreement of 1954. Read it this time.

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This page from President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page 372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any free election in Vietnam in 1954. This is certainly why the U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva Convention of 1954 required it.

I am convinced that the French could not win the war because the internal political situation in Vietnam, weak and confused, badly weakened their military position. I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the populations would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai.

Selection from Eisenhower's Memoires

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The Final Declaration of The Geneva Conference: On Restoring Peace in Indochina, July 21, 1954

4. The Conference takes note of the clauses in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities in Viet-Nam prohibiting the introduction into Viet Nam of foreign troops and military personnel as well as of all kinds of arms and munitions.

6. The Conference recognizes that the essential purpose of the agreement relating to Viet-Nam is to settle military questions with a view to ending hostilities and that the military demarcation line should not in any way be interpreted as constituting a political or territorial boundary...

7. In order to insure that sufficient progress in the restoration of peace has been made, and that all the necessary conditions obtain for free expression of the national will, general elections shall be held in July 1956, under the supervision of an international commission composed of representatives of the member states of the International Supervisory Commission referred to in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities. Consultations will be held on this subject between the competent representative authorities of the two zones from April 20, 1955, onwards.

Internet History Sourcebooks: Modern History

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The War in Vietnam happened because the United States prevented a fair election in which a stark, raving Communist would have won by a massive margin.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Sure you do.

If you were actually there, you'd know what a joke our efforts were.

Which is certainly what nearly every Vietnam vet I ever talked to thought.


All of that assumes that the people we supported were legitimate as a government.

Diem canceled elections. Then the Generals canceled Diem. We weren't supporting "democracy" or a "treaty ally", we supported a bunch of thugs who were looting the country.

There was General Ky, who idolized Hitler and stole a truckload of gold on his way out.

They were as legitimate as the north.

Mingh was a communist ruler who slughtered over a hundred thousand and enslaved the rest

 

[Soupnazi630]

Annoying Boomers is important. The Tet Offensive is not important. This is not a history site where the issue could be properly discussed.

The tet offensive is important and yes this is a history site

 

[JoeB131]

Ah, speaking of General Ky....

This is what he said after the war.

Kỳ made headlines in 2004 by being the first South Vietnamese leader to return to Vietnam after the reunification, a move that was seen as a shameful one by many anticommunist groups in the Vietnamese American community.[97][98][99] Kỳ had previously been critical of the Vietnamese government while in exile and had been denied a visa on several occasions.[98] Upon setting foot on Vietnam, Kỳ defended his actions by saying that the Vietnam War was "instigated by foreigners, it was brothers killing each other under the arrangements by foreign countries."[97][98]

He added, "In another 100 years, the Vietnamese will look back at the war and feel shameful. We should not dwell on it as it will not do any good for Vietnam's future. My main concern at the moment is Vietnam's position on the world map."[97][98] Kỳ said that he only wanted to help build up Vietnam and promote national harmony, and assailed critics of his return, saying that "those who bear grudges only care about themselves."[97][98]

 

[Soupnazi630]

I have already quoted President Eisenhower and the Geneva Agreement of 1954. Read it this time.

------------

This page from President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page 372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any free election in Vietnam in 1954. This is certainly why the U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva Convention of 1954 required it.

I am convinced that the French could not win the war because the internal political situation in Vietnam, weak and confused, badly weakened their military position. I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the populations would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai.

Selection from Eisenhower's Memoires

------------

The Final Declaration of The Geneva Conference: On Restoring Peace in Indochina, July 21, 1954

4. The Conference takes note of the clauses in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities in Viet-Nam prohibiting the introduction into Viet Nam of foreign troops and military personnel as well as of all kinds of arms and munitions.

6. The Conference recognizes that the essential purpose of the agreement relating to Viet-Nam is to settle military questions with a view to ending hostilities and that the military demarcation line should not in any way be interpreted as constituting a political or territorial boundary...

7. In order to insure that sufficient progress in the restoration of peace has been made, and that all the necessary conditions obtain for free expression of the national will, general elections shall be held in July 1956, under the supervision of an international commission composed of representatives of the member states of the International Supervisory Commission referred to in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities. Consultations will be held on this subject between the competent representative authorities of the two zones from April 20, 1955, onwards.

Internet History Sourcebooks: Modern History

------------

The War in Vietnam happened because the United States prevented a fair election in which a stark, raving Communist would have won by a massive margin.

I have already quoted President Eisenhower and the Geneva Agreement of 1954. Read it this time.

------------

This page from President Eisenhower's Memoires, Mandate for Change, page 372, shows that he believed Ho Chi Minh would have won any free election in Vietnam in 1954. This is certainly why the U.S. did not permit such an election, though the Geneva Convention of 1954 required it.

I am convinced that the French could not win the war because the internal political situation in Vietnam, weak and confused, badly weakened their military position. I have never talked or corresponded with a person knowledgeable in Indochinese affairs who did not agree that had elections been held as of the time of the fighting, possibly 80 per cent of the populations would have voted for the Communist Ho Chi Minh as their leader rather than Chief of State Bao Dai.

Selection from Eisenhower's Memoires

------------

The Final Declaration of The Geneva Conference: On Restoring Peace in Indochina, July 21, 1954

4. The Conference takes note of the clauses in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities in Viet-Nam prohibiting the introduction into Viet Nam of foreign troops and military personnel as well as of all kinds of arms and munitions.

6. The Conference recognizes that the essential purpose of the agreement relating to Viet-Nam is to settle military questions with a view to ending hostilities and that the military demarcation line should not in any way be interpreted as constituting a political or territorial boundary...

7. In order to insure that sufficient progress in the restoration of peace has been made, and that all the necessary conditions obtain for free expression of the national will, general elections shall be held in July 1956, under the supervision of an international commission composed of representatives of the member states of the International Supervisory Commission referred to in the agreement on the cessation of hostilities. Consultations will be held on this subject between the competent representative authorities of the two zones from April 20, 1955, onwards.

Internet History Sourcebooks: Modern History

------------

The War in Vietnam happened because the United States prevented a fair election in which a stark, raving Communist would have won by a massive margin.

Wrong

The US prevented nothing.

The war happened because minh siezed power and launched a war of aggression

 

[JoeB131]

They were as legitimate as the north.

Mingh was a communist ruler who slughtered over a hundred thousand and enslaved the rest

Okay, let's say that's true

3 million Vietnamese died during the war. That's on us.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Okay, let's say that's true

3 million Vietnamese died during the war. That's on us.

No it is not

Most of them were killed by the communist aggressors and the numver three million is made up

 

[JoeB131]

They were as legitimate as the north.

Mingh was a communist ruler who slughtered over a hundred thousand and enslaved the rest

First, it's Ho Chi Minh.

Secondly. Ho is the family name, Mihn is a personal name. His birth name was Nguyễn Sinh Cung

Third, if he is responsible for 100K deaths, how are we not responsible for the 3 million killed in a war our own leaders knew wasn't winnable.

 

[JoeB131]

No it is not

Most of them were killed by the communist aggressors and the numver three million is made up

Vietnam War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

• Vietnamese civilian dead: 405,000–2,000,000[22]: 450–453 [50][51]
• Vietnamese total dead: 966,000[21]–3,010,000[51]
• Cambodian Civil War dead: 275,000–310,000[52][53][54]
• Laotian Civil War dead: 20,000–62,000[51]
• Non-Indochinese military dead: 65,494

 

[Soupnazi630]

First, it's Ho Chi Minh.

Secondly. Ho is the family name, Mihn is a personal name. His birth name was Nguyễn Sinh Cung

Third, if he is responsible for 100K deaths, how are we not responsible for the 3 million killed in a war our own leaders knew wasn't winnable.

The three million figure is a fantasy.

Most of the casualties in that war among civilians were caused by the communists

Minh is more than responsible he is a mass murderer who ordered the deaths of 150.000 people and then launched a war of aggression HE is responsible

 

[Soupnazi630]

Vietnam War - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

• Vietnamese civilian dead: 405,000–2,000,000[22]: 450–453 [50][51]
• Vietnamese total dead: 966,000[21]–3,010,000[51]
• Cambodian Civil War dead: 275,000–310,000[52][53][54]
• Laotian Civil War dead: 20,000–62,000[51]
• Non-Indochinese military dead: 65,494

Plus or minus firgures and you go with the hightest and of course wiki is not an authoritative site

 

[JoeB131]

The three million figure is a fantasy.

That's probably accurte, and doesn't even count the Cambodians and Laotians.

It also doesn't count the Vietnamese who were no doubt killed long term by exposure to Agent Orange.

 

[Soupnazi630]

That's probably accurte, and doesn't even count the Cambodians and Laotians.

No it is not accurate it is made up

the first quote of a million was long ago and dreamed uo by Ted kennedy who was drunk as always

Since then every ten years or so someone adds a million because it makes the US look worse.

It is pure fiction and propaganda, The death toll counted by BOTH the south and north vietnamese governments combinednever added up to a million. Of course since the communists took over they spread propadanga for weak minds like your to consume so they are happy to go along with any manufactured claim.

 

[Deadstick]

Imagine if shortly after the start of the Battle of the Bulge in 1944, an American newsman had announced on TV that perhaps we needed to seek a negotiated end to WWII because the Germans had launched a massive attack that no one thought possible?

This is not too drastically different from what Walter Cronkite did on February 27, 1968, less than four weeks after the North Vietnamese and their Viet Cong subordinates launched their disastrous Tet Offensive on January 30. Here are the two most often-quoted statements from Cronkite's commentary:

To say that we are mired in stalemate seems the only realistic, yet unsatisfactory, conclusion.

But it is increasingly clear to this reporter that the only rational way out then will be to negotiate, not as victors, but as an honorable people who lived up to their pledge to defend democracy and did the best they could.

You would never guess from Cronkite's spin that the Communists had suffered a horrendous military defeat, suffering staggering losses while failing to seize nearly all of the towns and cities they had targeted (and the few places they did manage to seize were retaken in a matter of weeks).

We now know from North Vietnamese sources that the Tet Offensive was a desperate gamble that Hanoi's leaders took because they realized they were losing the war. Also, the North Vietnamese had assumed that once the offensive began, the majority of South Vietnamese would rise up and help them overthrow the Saigon government, but the vast majority of South Vietnamese remained loyal to their government.

Walter Cronkite and most of the rest of the news media turned the Communists' crushing military defeat into a key propaganda victory for the Communist war effort.

The Tet Offensive Revisited: Media's Big Lie

You lost get over it.

 

[Deadstick]

No it is not accurate it is made up

the first quote of a million was long ago and dreamed uo by Ted kennedy who was drunk as always

Since then every ten years or so someone adds a million because it makes the US look worse.

It is pure fiction and propaganda, The death toll counted by BOTH the south and north vietnamese governments combinednever added up to a million. Of course since the communists took over they spread propadanga for weak minds like your to consume so they are happy to go along with any manufactured claim.

The people that took over were the Vietnamese, there were more bombs dropped on South East Asia than all the bombs dropped by all sides in WW2 so two million is quite believable, Laos was bombed to oblivion, it's the American way bringing democracy to the world since the 1800s.

 

[Soupnazi630]

The people that took over were the Vietnamese, there were more bombs dropped on South East Asia than all the bombs dropped by all sides in WW2 so two million is quite believable, Laos was bombed to oblivion, it's the American way bringing democracy to the world since the 1800s.

Wrong

It is not believable

Your claim of bombs dropped is false and manufactured. It would be true to say that WE dropped more tonnage of bombs than WE did on both sides in WWII, But not by all sides combined.

Notice it is also tonnage of bombs not bombs counted,

Most of thpopse bombs we dropped were dropped on empty jungle and harmed no one. Hanoi was virtually unscathed and never reduced to ryubble like Tokyo and Dresden were.

Laos was in obl.ivion before we were there snd we had little impact on them

 

[Deadstick]

Wrong

It is not believable

Your claim of bombs dropped is false and manufactured. It would be true to say that WE dropped more tonnage of bombs than WE did on both sides in WWII, But not by all sides combined.

Notice it is also tonnage of bombs not bombs counted,

Most of thpopse bombs we dropped were dropped on empty jungle and harmed no one. Hanoi was virtually unscathed and never reduced to ryubble like Tokyo and Dresden were.

Laos was in obl.ivion before we were there snd we had little impact on them

Why would you drop bombs on empty jungle? what you did was wipe out jungle with chemical agents and any peasant who lived there, people still suffer to this day.

 

[Soupnazi630]

Why would you drop bombs on empty jungle? what you did was wipe out jungle with chemical agents and any peasant who lived there, people still suffer to this day.

Wrong.

We did not wipe out the jungle with chemical agents and people suffer there due to poverty and communism, which is redundant.

The reason we dropped on empty jungles was that Johnson was micromanaging the war from the white house.

Typically our intelligence would spot a potential enemy target which was mobile such as an encampment or cluster of parked vehicles. Before attacking with aircraft permission had to be requested all the way up the chain to Johnson. He would then consult with friends and business execs and eventually send permission back down. By the time the aircraft got the order to attack the target, it was gone. So the bombs landed on a whole lot of nothing.

The chenical agents you are referring to were defoliants which only temporarily wilted leaves. They did not kill people.

 

[JoeB131]

The chenical agents you are referring to were defoliants which only temporarily wilted leaves. They did not kill people.

The VA disagrees with you.

Agent Orange exposure and disability compensation | Veterans Affairs

If you have a health condition caused by exposure to the herbicide Agent Orange during your service, you may be eligible for VA disability compensation. Compensation provides tax-free monthly payments. Keep reading to find out if you may be eligible.

www.va.gov

Cancers caused by Agent Orange exposure​

• Bladder cancer
• Chronic B-cell leukemia
• Hodgkin’s disease
• Multiple myeloma
• Non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma
• Prostate cancer
• Respiratory cancers (including lung cancer)
• Some soft tissue sarcomas

 

[Hector12]

Wrong

The US prevented nothing.

The war happened because minh siezed power and launched a war of aggression

Are you a slow learner, or do you have reading comprehension problems?