Want universal background checks? A question....

[M14 Shooter]

If you sell your car and don't have a bill of sale and don't notify DMV a parking ticket will be your responsiblity, any hit and run, you are the suspect and will need to prove you weren't the driver.

Irrelevant to the conversation.

In your head, sense it directly applies, we can be nice and assume you're only willfully ignorant.

Not in the slightest.
The fact that you can trace a car back to a previous owner because of a BoS isnt relevant because the huge majority of private transfers have no such bill and there was certainly no such bill in the example provided.

Huh? Who cares, the debate isn't about what is, it's about a means to limit illegal sales. Thus a law to require both a BoS and a background check would be a means to limit the sale of a gun to a criminal, a psycho, a drunk or someone intent on killing themselves and wanting to kill others first.

Sigh.
TD and I meet up. We each buy a gun off each other. No BoS, no background check.
How does the state prove we broke the law?

 

[M14 Shooter]

You should be made to buy through a registered dealer. I dunno, make dealers register with the government so that the gov is aware of who buys what and when and where.

You don't need a registered dealer, just registered weapons. We manage to make private sales of vehicles all the time with the proper paperwork. Private gun sales could work the same way as vehicles.

So...
Universal background checks will only work with universal registration.
Right?

 

[M14 Shooter]

If you sell your car and don't have a bill of sale and don't notify DMV a parking ticket will be your responsiblity, any hit and run, you are the suspect and will need to prove you weren't the driver.

Cars have titles and registration. Guns dont.
Next.

Maybe they should!

Lame, even for you.
IN Canada they tried registering guns. The program was such a failure because of widespread disobedience that they dropped it. It will be even worse here.

Let's eliminate the law for driving under the influence, it is a failure because of widespread disobedience.

Why?
Laws against DUI aren't meant to prevent DUI, they're meant to punish those who do.
Just like laws against felons, etc, owning guns.
It's impossible to enact a law that will prevent people from breaking the law.

 

[M14 Shooter]

So what's the big deal about BGC's for civilians seeking to purchase a gun. If the buyer wants a gun, and has no nefarious plans why wouldn't the buyer be as willing to undergo a BGC?

Hmm. if you aren't doing anything wrong, why do you care if the government taps your phone line w/o a warrant?

We could start now, and require all new purchases of guns to include a BGC.

Which then leads us back to the question in the OP.
TD and I meet up and sell each other a gun w/o a BC.
How does the state prove we broke the law?

 

[MXdad]

Register the serial number of the gun and provide a title, just like an automobile.

We're told by gun lovers that cars are just as dangerous, just as lethal as cars. If we accept this premise, then guns should be registered and titled.

The answer is simple a car is a privilege, a gun is a right

What problem will registering solve? My guess is you would like to stop criminal, what are the chances they will register weapons.

Did registration stop the killing in Isla Vista?

 

[MXdad]

A criminal record is not necessarily a reason to provent someone from owning, possessing, etc. a gun. A crime of violence is; as is a mental condition wherein a person has a demonstrated history of little or no self control, or has a history of substance abuse.

Consider the most recent mass murderers were not criminals until they entered a school or movie theater or political rally with a gun and began shooting. A BGC is much more than simply looking at a history of arrests.

[Before hiring LEO's we would look at the entire record of the candidate, including civil judgments, credit reports, marriage history, residence stability, job stability, school records, military records and FI cards (police field interviews) of police agencies in all city/towns wherein the candidate lived, and review refernces with neighbors, teachers, coaches and family members as well as state and federal arrest/detention records. Plus, a written and two interviews with a psychologist and at least two interviews with command staff.]

So what's the big deal about BGC's for civilians seeking to purchase a gun. If the buyer wants a gun, and has no nefarious plans why wouldn't the buyer be as willing to undergo a BGC? BTW, there is no right to privacy nor is their funding sufficient to carry out an extensive BGC for all civilians who want to buy a gun.

We could start now, and require all new purchases of guns to include a BGC. Thus all the gun lovers can keep their guns safe and secure from government oversight; at least until they violate laws restricting the sale of guns, commit an act of violence, demonstrate a lack of self control, are detained as a danger to themselves or others or have been determined to be a drug or alcohol abuser.

It's funny that you mentioned the mass shootings at school, theater and political rally.

Sandy Hook - Guns were purchased legally, buyer passed BGC. Shooter killed mother stole the guns

Giffords shooting - shooter legally purchased guns, passed BGC

Aurora theater shooting - shooter passed BGC guns purchased legally


There your BGC was in effect and had no effect on the outcome.

Next

 

[MXdad]

Time will tell. Intrusive, yeah I suppose. Less so then sending your 6 year old to school alive and having LE inform you your child was murdered, or having your teen go off to a movie and end up in a body bag. I'd find the latter examples much more instrusive; that you don't is sick.

Your replying based on emotion and neglecting fact. Again you mention a school and a theater, in both Sandy Hook and Aurora the guns were purchased legally. BGC for the buyer was preformed. In Sandy Hook the killer obtained the weapons through murder/theft

By your own examples you are proving BGC did not stop these tragedies


Keep up the good work, you make it easy

 

[MXdad]

I would also require insurance for that gun. Everyone who owns a gun should have to take out insurance to cover any damage or death caused by that gun.

If you knowingly transfer your gun to a criminal you are liable that is the law now

If you gun is stolen then no you are not liable and should not be if it was reported stolen

 

[haissem123]

If you support imposing universal background checks on all gun sales, whether through a dealer or not, I have a question for you.

Say I meet up with Turtledude; he and I buy a gun off each other, get a beer, and go home.

How does the government prove that background checks were not run before we sold the guns?

This is why intelligence tests should be given as well as back ground checks. hands up, don't shoot

 

[M14 Shooter]

If you support imposing universal background checks on all gun sales, whether through a dealer or not, I have a question for you.

Say I meet up with Turtledude; he and I buy a gun off each other, get a beer, and go home.

How does the government prove that background checks were not run before we sold the guns?

This is why intelligence tests should be given as well as back ground checks. hands up, don't shoot

Really not sure how this addresses the question....

 

[MXdad]

If you support imposing universal background checks on all gun sales, whether through a dealer or not, I have a question for you.

Say I meet up with Turtledude; he and I buy a gun off each other, get a beer, and go home.

How does the government prove that background checks were not run before we sold the guns?

This is why intelligence tests should be given as well as back ground checks. hands up, don't shoot

Ok fine gun ownership is a right, voting is a right. Are you in favor of IQ test in order to exercise your right to vote?

Who was shot with their hands up?

 

[haissem123]

If you support imposing universal background checks on all gun sales, whether through a dealer or not, I have a question for you.

Say I meet up with Turtledude; he and I buy a gun off each other, get a beer, and go home.

How does the government prove that background checks were not run before we sold the guns?

This is why intelligence tests should be given as well as back ground checks. hands up, don't shoot

Really not sure how this addresses the question....

Did you report the sale to the government? if not, how do they know about it at all? if so, who does the back ground check? you 2 or the government local or not? does this address the issue?

 

[haissem123]

If you support imposing universal background checks on all gun sales, whether through a dealer or not, I have a question for you.

Say I meet up with Turtledude; he and I buy a gun off each other, get a beer, and go home.

How does the government prove that background checks were not run before we sold the guns?

This is why intelligence tests should be given as well as back ground checks. hands up, don't shoot

Ok fine gun ownership is a right, voting is a right. Are you in favor of IQ test in order to exercise your right to vote?

Who was shot with their hands up?

yes, I am all for referendums but we should be asked to take a test on the issue to make sure we are totally informed before we vote. not by these bs artists telling you half truths and mostly lies scaring you all to a stupid destructive decision for you all.

 

[Dana7360]

Register the serial number of the gun and provide a title, just like an automobile.

We're told by gun lovers that cars are just as dangerous, just as lethal as cars. If we accept this premise, then guns should be registered and titled.

I would also require insurance for that gun. Everyone who owns a gun should have to take out insurance to cover any damage or death caused by that gun.

Do we require insurance to own a ladder? To own a swimming pool? To own narcotics or cleaning agents? Because all those things cause more deaths than guns.
Such a law would fall most heavily on the poor, who suffer from crime disproportianally.
Another lib unable to think beyond Stage One.

I was replying to a post that was comparing cars with guns. The law requires everyone to have at least liability insurance on their car. If they don't have it and they're either stopped by a cop or is in an accident, they're in a lot of financial trouble.

However, there's already insurance for ladders, narcotics and cleaning agents. It's call Health Insurance. There's already insurance for swimming pools. It's called Homeowner's Insurance. In the case of a pool, I think there's an extra charge on the insurance for the pool.

Those who own a gun should be required to have insurance to cover any damage or death to innocent people caused by that gun.

If a person can't afford insurance then they shouldn't be able to have a gun. Just like with cars.

The poor pay for their car insurance, if they have a car. They can pay for insurance for their gun. An innocent person shouldn't be liable for all financial responsibilities when someone shoots them. Being poor isn't a good enough excuse to be able to harm or kill someone and just walk away from the financial responsibility of what they did.

 

[MXdad]

If you support imposing universal background checks on all gun sales, whether through a dealer or not, I have a question for you.

Say I meet up with Turtledude; he and I buy a gun off each other, get a beer, and go home.

How does the government prove that background checks were not run before we sold the guns?

This is why intelligence tests should be given as well as back ground checks. hands up, don't shoot

Ok fine gun ownership is a right, voting is a right. Are you in favor of IQ test in order to exercise your right to vote?

Who was shot with their hands up?

yes, I am all for referendums but we should be asked to take a test on the issue to make sure we are totally informed before we vote. not by these bs artists telling you half truths and mostly lies scaring you all to a stupid destructive decision for you all.

Interesting your for passing a test to enable you to exercise your right to vote, LOL what could go wrong there

If I understand it would seem you are not in favor of a person having rights, your more in favor of the Gov deciding who it chooses to allow to exercise their rights


I am guessing you were also in favor of poll taxes?

 

[haissem123]

Register the serial number of the gun and provide a title, just like an automobile.

We're told by gun lovers that cars are just as dangerous, just as lethal as cars. If we accept this premise, then guns should be registered and titled.

I would also require insurance for that gun. Everyone who owns a gun should have to take out insurance to cover any damage or death caused by that gun.

Do we require insurance to own a ladder? To own a swimming pool? To own narcotics or cleaning agents? Because all those things cause more deaths than guns.
Such a law would fall most heavily on the poor, who suffer from crime disproportianally.
Another lib unable to think beyond Stage One.

I don't agree a person of less means has any less right to defend himself in a world growing all the more violent. it goes to the heart of the amendment and the idea of justice for all.



I was replying to a post that was comparing cars with guns. The law requires everyone to have at least liability insurance on their car. If they don't have it and they're either stopped by a cop or is in an accident, they're in a lot of financial trouble.

However, there's already insurance for ladders, narcotics and cleaning agents. It's call Health Insurance. There's already insurance for swimming pools. It's called Homeowner's Insurance. In the case of a pool, I think there's an extra charge on the insurance for the pool.

Those who own a gun should be required to have insurance to cover any damage or death to innocent people caused by that gun.

If a person can't afford insurance then they shouldn't be able to have a gun. Just like with cars.

The poor pay for their car insurance, if they have a car. They can pay for insurance for their gun. An innocent person shouldn't be liable for all financial responsibilities when someone shoots them. Being poor isn't a good enough excuse to be able to harm or kill someone and just walk away from the financial responsibility of what they did.

 

[M14 Shooter]

If you support imposing universal background checks on all gun sales, whether through a dealer or not, I have a question for you.

Say I meet up with Turtledude; he and I buy a gun off each other, get a beer, and go home.

How does the government prove that background checks were not run before we sold the guns?

This is why intelligence tests should be given as well as back ground checks. hands up, don't shoot

Really not sure how this addresses the question....

Did you report the sale to the government? if not, how do they know about it at all? if so, who does the back ground check? you 2 or the government local or not? does this address the issue?

Sounds like you think there's no way for the state to prove we broke the law.

 

[haissem123]

If you support imposing universal background checks on all gun sales, whether through a dealer or not, I have a question for you.

Say I meet up with Turtledude; he and I buy a gun off each other, get a beer, and go home.

How does the government prove that background checks were not run before we sold the guns?

This is why intelligence tests should be given as well as back ground checks. hands up, don't shoot

Ok fine gun ownership is a right, voting is a right. Are you in favor of IQ test in order to exercise your right to vote?

Who was shot with their hands up?

yes, I am all for referendums but we should be asked to take a test on the issue to make sure we are totally informed before we vote. not by these bs artists telling you half truths and mostly lies scaring you all to a stupid destructive decision for you all.

Interesting your for passing a test to enable you to exercise your right to vote, LOL what could go wrong there

If I understand it would seem you are not in favor of a person having rights, your more in favor of the Gov deciding who it chooses to allow to exercise their rights


I am guessing you were also in favor of poll taxes?

I'm not talking about voting for a few to be bought or threatened off their task of looking out for us. Yes, if you are a stupid person voting on an issue without a clue, then you are harming us all and should be made to know the real unbiased facts. not the fear facts and opinions of propaganda networks from either side. this is no small feat but must be done in future so we can grow up as a species.

 

[haissem123]

If you support imposing universal background checks on all gun sales, whether through a dealer or not, I have a question for you.

Say I meet up with Turtledude; he and I buy a gun off each other, get a beer, and go home.

How does the government prove that background checks were not run before we sold the guns?

This is why intelligence tests should be given as well as back ground checks. hands up, don't shoot

Really not sure how this addresses the question....

Did you report the sale to the government? if not, how do they know about it at all? if so, who does the back ground check? you 2 or the government local or not? does this address the issue?

Sounds like you think there's no way for the state to prove we broke the law.

if they catch you with the gun there is.

 

[MXdad]

Register the serial number of the gun and provide a title, just like an automobile.

We're told by gun lovers that cars are just as dangerous, just as lethal as cars. If we accept this premise, then guns should be registered and titled.

I would also require insurance for that gun. Everyone who owns a gun should have to take out insurance to cover any damage or death caused by that gun.

Do we require insurance to own a ladder? To own a swimming pool? To own narcotics or cleaning agents? Because all those things cause more deaths than guns.
Such a law would fall most heavily on the poor, who suffer from crime disproportianally.
Another lib unable to think beyond Stage One.

I was replying to a post that was comparing cars with guns. The law requires everyone to have at least liability insurance on their car. If they don't have it and they're either stopped by a cop or is in an accident, they're in a lot of financial trouble.

However, there's already insurance for ladders, narcotics and cleaning agents. It's call Health Insurance. There's already insurance for swimming pools. It's called Homeowner's Insurance. In the case of a pool, I think there's an extra charge on the insurance for the pool.

Those who own a gun should be required to have insurance to cover any damage or death to innocent people caused by that gun.

If a person can't afford insurance then they shouldn't be able to have a gun. Just like with cars.

The poor pay for their car insurance, if they have a car. They can pay for insurance for their gun. An innocent person shouldn't be liable for all financial responsibilities when someone shoots them. Being poor isn't a good enough excuse to be able to harm or kill someone and just walk away from the financial responsibility of what they did.

The problem is non of the items you mentioned with the exception of guns is a right.

It would seem to me you are advocating for a tax of sorts to be able to enjoy your rights to keep and bear arms. Are you also in favor of a poll tax to exercise your right to vote?


Are you aware that your already held liable for damage that you cause with your firearm? Seems you are making a new requirement for something that is already covered under law. Why is that?