War on Christmas

[strollingbones]

no one can stop anyone from praying....if i am not mistaken the bible says pray not for the glory of man but go into your closet to pray.....

 

[Againsheila]

You know what would be REALLY cool? A satanists christmas decoration setup in the mall.

For many years, our local mall had a giving tree. Decorations of names and families that needed help. People could come and choose a name and then buy a present and give it to the people at the giving tree. Someone decided that was too religious and told them they couldn't have the giving tree that Christmas. Didn't stop them from having Santa, but gee, how dare they provide a tree so that people can choose to buy presents for the poor?

Santa of course, brings in money for the mall, what with all the pictures. And he better be quick too. Years ago we had the best Santa ever at the mall. He had his own beard, on his breaks he would walk around the mall, saying "ho ho ho" and talking to the kids. They FIRED him because he spent too much time with each child and they weren't making enough money on those stupid photos. Talk about commercialism. A tree which provides gifts for the poor isn't allowed and Santa can't even spend time with the kids, it's just get the picture and push 'em down the slide.

You don't think this is a war on Christmas? Or do you really think that's what Christmas is all about? Commercialism?

 

[strollingbones]

Its freedom of religion, not freedom from religion and shall not be infringed upon

hmmm i think its freedom from religion in the aspect that there is to be no national religion

 

[strollingbones]

o hell yea its about stuff buying stuff come on mrs shelia..they trampled a man to death to buy stuff...unfortunately the purpose of most holidays by most religions are now mere shadows of what they once were

 

[Zoom-boing]

Not at all. We're saying that when we say grace you don't have to participate, but you can't stop us either.

Freedom of religion means that we can be religious whenever and whereever we want and don't have to stop because it offends you. It means that muslims can do their prayers in the middle of the dang airport and you can't stop it. It means the Christians can say grace before they eat in the school cafeteria and you can't stop it.

Sadly, too many athiests have taken their freedom to far and believe they have a right to freedom from religion as the organization that sent the sign to our state capital that says religion causes hearts to harden and enslaves minds. They think they have a right to tell highschool graduates that they can't say a prayer when they graduate rather than just sitting there quietly until it's over.

Did you read about the highschool that was told they couldn't say a prayer? After the program was over, one graduate went up to the podium, the crowd fell silent. The entire graduating class, at one time, sneezed. He just looked at them and said "God Bless You". Sad that they had to sneak that prayer in rather than being allowed to just say a prayer when they graduated, don't you think?

There isn't just a war on Christmas in this country, there is a war on Christianity. You can see it in our public schools. When a student at our local elementary school started to say Grace alloud before he ate, the lunchroom attendent told him he had to say it quietly or not at all. When a group of elementary school kids ON THEIR OWN gathered around the flag pole and started to say a prayer in the morning BEFORE SCHOOL STARTED, the principal came out and told them to disperse. When a junior high kid brought his Bible to class to read during free reading time, he was told it wasn't allowed. It took the parents going to the school board to force that school to allow kids to read their Bibles during FREE READING TIME!!!

What do you call it when our rights are being chipped away little by little? Oh, wait, you don't think we have the right to our religion. You think it's hard hearted and stupid and that we shouldn't be allowed to pray in front of you, right?

On Halloween one year the high school kids were allowed to dress up. The kid who dressed as Jesus was sent home from school because he was dressed as Jesus (he was told this); the kid dressed as satan was allowed to stay.

 

[Zoom-boing]

The proof was there for you to see right rom the WalMart website. I don't understand why you're pursuing this "greeters don't exist" argument when it is not at all relevant to the case.

You guys bought up the store greeters, not us. Why did you bother bringing it up in the first place if it has no relevance to this discussion? All I wanted to know is what stores hire people to stand there and greet customers as they enter the store. Still waiting for a legit answer on this one, as the Wal-mart and Target I went to this week didn't have anyone there to wish me a Merry Chrismahannukwanzza.

yea yea yea... you are not the only belief system with a holiday during this time of year, dogma junkie. We've already won; go ask Retail store greeters all about it.

 

[Red Dawn]

Try as they may the secular progressives will not win this war.


.

Shit. Foiled again.

We may have lost the battle, but not the war. Right now as we speak, SPs are plotting the war on Easter.

 

[Againsheila]

o hell yea its about stuff buying stuff come on mrs shelia..they trampled a man to death to buy stuff...unfortunately the purpose of most holidays by most religions are now mere shadows of what they once were

One has to wonder how many of that mob were Christians and how many of them were just there to get a deal. Set it up so bad things happen and you can claim it's because there is no God, or that religious people are hard hearted and stupid.

I still blame Walmart for that. We need some laws. There should be no "limited quantities" sales without proper security.

 

[Zoom-boing]

You're referring to situations where individuals in government are expressing their religious beliefs. If George Bush says "God is real" then that is his personal opinion. If the words "God is real" are engraved on the frieze of the US Supreme Court, then it is the government making the statement and it is not allowed. It is the same situation with graves in a national cemeteries. Individual government headstones have symbols for the christian, jewish, and other faiths (they even have symbols for atheists!) but what they cannot do is display a huge cross at the entrance to the cemetery that suggests that it is a christian cemetery.

I find it interesting that you didn't bother to respond to Navy1960's post to you in reference to this (page 30) and his post to Mencken on the previous page.

 

[Againsheila]

no one can stop anyone from praying....if i am not mistaken the bible says pray not for the glory of man but go into your closet to pray.....

Don't know about you, but I don't usually bring my closet with me when I go to school or out to eat. In fact, I distictly remember getting into trouble when I was caught in the closet at school, though I will admit, I was not there to pray.

 

[Zoom-boing]

Shit. Foiled again.

We may have lost the battle, but not the war. Right now as we speak, SPs are plotting the war on Easter.

Oh no!! I hope it doesn't include this:

 

[Againsheila]

Shit. Foiled again.

We may have lost the battle, but not the war. Right now as we speak, SPs are plotting the war on Easter.

Don't you touch that Easter Bunny, and remember, those chocolate ears are mine.

BTW, Easter is NOT a national holiday.

 

[Againsheila]

On Halloween one year the high school kids were allowed to dress up. The kid who dressed as Jesus was sent home from school because he was dressed as Jesus (he was told this); the kid dressed as satan was allowed to stay.

I read that. And they don't think there is a concerted effort against Christianity in this country......Don't you wish some people could actually see what they are looking at?

 

[YWN666]

While I respect your opinion it is in the end just that an opinion and like mine even though it differs to a large degree, it seems you fail to comprehend what my post actually say's. So I will be more direct so in the spirit of the holiday's , Chirstmas, and several other names that anyone wishes to apply to it it will perhaps come across you. Let's see, where too begin, I think by posting the ACTUAL Amendment to the constitution I made it quite clear what the constitution says and have made NO claim that the government should be endorsing a state religion so your assertion as to my opnion as no merit whatsoever. ( I put that in bold as to leave no doubt in your mind as to my position on that ). As to the agrument on the Coke Machine vs. a sign that says Merry Christmas it was to illustrate a state sponsored "endorsement" of it's brand by actually placing the Coke Machine in the lobby, and therefor because of it's authority under law the brand name is given legal weight simply by being in that location. Your assertion that I somehow equated Coke as a religion is comepletely off the mark and shows a lack of critical thinking skills when it comes to this topic.

I didn't say you equated Coke to a religion. I was saying that your analogy was a poor one because Coke and religion and not comparable in the context of the example you cited.

To answer your question as to the prohibiting of the free exercise clause is actually a very simple one. If you as a taxpayer pay taxes to any state, local, or Federal Govt. that in turn makes use of those funds for public facilities and then denies you the right to exercise your right to freedom of religion by posting a "Merry Christmas" sign in a lobby, hallway, yard , etc. they are ( here is the keyword "in my opnion") denying you the free exercise thereof according to the constitution. Not a hard concept to get a grasp on , but obviously if your of the opinion that this is not the case, or choose to ignore that part of the amendment then of course I can see where it might be confusing. What else was your assertion?, " How is the prevention of posting those signs somehow preventing that? paraphrased" Well that should be pretty easy to understand as I pointed out above. The bottom line here though as I pointed out in my last posting. is that these are just opinions and much like a movie one mans nonsense is another mans nobel prize.

First of all, your religious freedom ends where the freedom of others begins. Your religious freedom does NOT include having your religion promoted by the government. Your example is not relevant since you are talking about a citizen bringing a sign into a government building. You as a taxpayer have the right to stand in the middle of the Capitol Rotunda and say Jesus is god all you like. It is the GOVERNMENT that can't do that. That is the distinction.

Now is it my turn to insult your critical thinking skills? Or maybe you'd like to discuss this like adults?

 

[Againsheila]

Oh no!! I hope it doesn't include this:

That is not the Easter Bunny. Did you bring the Holy Handgrenade?

 

[Zoom-boing]

That is not the Easter Bunny. Did you bring the Holy Handgrenade?

No but I do have this:

 

[YWN666]

You guys bought up the store greeters, not us. Why did you bother bringing it up in the first place if it has no relevance to this discussion?

They were a part of the story, just not a relevant one. YOU decided to pick on the word.

All I wanted to know is what stores hire people to stand there and greet customers as they enter the store. Still waiting for a legit answer on this one, as the Wal-mart and Target I went to this week didn't have anyone there to wish me a Merry Chrismahannukwanzza.

So they don't exist because YOU didn't see them? Quite an ego you got there!
Go to the WalMart website and do a search for the word "greeter" and you'll find plenty of references.

 

[strollingbones]

One has to wonder how many of that mob were Christians and how many of them were just there to get a deal. Set it up so bad things happen and you can claim it's because there is no God, or that religious people are hard hearted and stupid.

I still blame Walmart for that. We need some laws. There should be no "limited quantities" sales without proper security.

all of that is true...but this is true too...the majority of americans claim to be christians...so we can gather 70% or more the that trampling crowd would claim to be christians...its not so much about religion as commericalization of the holidays...all of them....i absolutely am against the loss leader limited sales type things on black friday...so i opt to do cyber monday instead...

 

[Zoom-boing]

They were a part of the story, just not a relevant one. YOU decided to pick on the word.



So they don't exist because YOU didn't see them? Quite an ego you got there!
Go to the WalMart website and do a search for the word "greeter" and you'll find plenty of references.

Wow such spinner I have never seen. You guys bought up the 'store greeters', which is why I questioned it. Never would have occured to me, as I did not know they existed and did not see any store greeter in the Wal-mart or Target I went to this week. I even put my glasses on and looked around as I went into the store. Just saying . . . if they do indeed exsit, you'd think they put 'em right up front and have them doing their job! (Psss, didn't see them as I left either. Guess they had one hell of a long lunch break, eh?)

And if they are so irrelevant, why do you keep responding to my posts about them? Most people would just ignore it . . . .

YAWN zzzzzzzzzz . . . . .

 

[Againsheila]

Wow such spinner I have never seen. You guys bought up the 'store greeters', which is why I questioned it. Never would have occured to me, as I did not know they existed and did see any store greeter in the Wal-mart or Target I went to this week. I even put my glasses on and looked around as I went into the store. Just saying . . . if they do indeed exsit, you'd think they put 'em right up front and have them doing their job! (Psss, didn't see them as I left either. Guess they had one hell of a long lunch break, eh?)

And if they are so irrelevant, why do you keep responding to my posts about them? Most people would just ignore it . . . .

YAWN zzzzzzzzzz . . . . .

Dang it Zoom, I just got your avatar. Dang I'm slow.