Washing machines/dryers prices up 17% under Trump (thank you, tariffs)

[Jarlaxle]

Plenty of them are not. THey got degrees and training, and the jobs are not there.

Their student debt remains.

Yes, but the real problem is that they don't get an education in fields in demand. They take classes that are easy or less challenging, and then get out and find there are no jobs because a lot of younger people did the same thing.

One of my tenants told me she was going to part-time to attend college for better work. I advised her the first thing she needs to do is look in the want ads and see what's in demand. She took some courses in college previously to learn how to draw blood in hospital labs. She got out and found there were no jobs in that field, and the ones that were out there didn't pay very much.

People flood the fields that they hear have good potential. Then those fields are oversupplied, and people are left out.



Because there are not enough good jobs. Why did phlebotomy fill up? Lord knows it can't be that great.

Which is why people need to get an education in fields of demand. Today few want to get an education in fields that also require physical work. Work like construction, HVAC, plumbing, electrician. They want to go to school, come out and get a job sitting behind a desk.

It's the same thing when I attended electronics school back in the early 80's. It's very difficult and all math, but regardless of the cost and complexity, the jobs didn't pay squat. Why? Because everybody and their mother was interested in electronics.

We are only worth as much as our employer can pay somebody else to do the same job and same quality of work. That's how wages are determined. It works fine and dandy until you throw a monkey wrench into the system like foreigners or unions. But outside of that, the supply and demand system is the best for employment.

If the overall pie is shrinking, then you are competing in a game that is going to have a lot of losers, no matter what.


You are conflating individual strategies for success, with good policies.


Telling an individual to go into a field that is in demand, is good advice.


It does not help the population as a whole, if the job market sucks ass.

I think the job market is fine, it's just that as a nation, we've become cheap.

Both my niece and nephew graduated college with massive debts. My nephew earned a Master and is doing fine. He works at a school for troubled children. My niece? Not so well. She graduated with a biology degree hoping to get into medical laboratory work. She's been a waitress for the last seven years. She even moved to Florida because they have better opportunities for the work she's trying to get. No luck yet.

I'm not much of a college guy, so when I decided to make a move from general labor, I chose truck driving. Why? Because even in the worst of times, somebody is always looking for an accomplished driver. I didn't want to be one of those guys on the news being interviewed saying somebody should create a job for something I knew how to do. I always wanted to be in demand.

If not for my medical problems, I would be doing much better today financially, but the point I'm making is that I chose a career that was always in demand. Anybody else can do the same. Currently we need over 30,000 new drivers that industry can't find. If you play your cards right, you can make some pretty good money driving a tractor-trailer.

Everything was fine until Ears invaded the White House. So what happened when unions made demands in the past? Companies moved out of state or country to get away from them.

Unions had their place and use at one time, just like the ice man and horse shoe maker. But that time is long gone, and people realize the damage unions have done to this country.

As for your minimum wage argument, it's nothing but bull. Most companies today are non-union and they don't pay minimum wage or force people to work 60 hours a week. That's boloney.

However that's the same argument my father kept making to me. He's a retired union bricklayer. One day when I got fed up with him telling me I wouldn't be making what I make today if not for unions, I told him i wouldn't have to make what I make today if I could afford one of the houses that he built.

That was the last time he used that argument with me.

If there were no unions you would be making minimum wage bud. If you were in the union you would have health insurance. Unions are needed for those things, if you were union you would have a pension as well and possibly an annuity. But you go on believing that the unions are bad and I will go on having health insurance.

My employer told us repeatedly, if we ever decide to unionize, he's closing the company. That's what unions have done to tens of millions of people.

I'm glad you think your crystal ball is so accurate that you know what would have happened without unions. Have unions done some good in the past? I believe so. I'm willing to admit that. But you refuse to admit the harm they brought us.

In my line of work and personal experience with unions, I could write a book on the subject. If I went to a company I knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not simply by how the employees worked. It's not a special talent, anybody could do it. Union employees were substandard to non-union employees every time it's compared. It's one of the reasons my employer quit accepting deliveries to UAW plants. There were times I was there for half the day trying to get unloaded; something a non-union crew could have done in a half-hour.

Believe your stupidity, I would work you under the table and have health benefits to boot. Your a tool, of course your company would close they want to pay you far less in wages and benies and that's exactly what they are doing. Stay stupid and without health insurance.

Actually in our business, most don't include healthcare benefits since the big-eared creep ruined our country. Prior to that, they had no choice.

But you have to play the cards you are handed in life. The only reason my employer would close down is because he wouldn't be able to compete with non-union companies. Union companies can't compete against non-union companies because non-union operations can produce products or services at a lower price.

The best we can do now is never allow Democrats to have leadership again so they don't screw things up even more for the working people.

Funny Teamsters have health benies and pensions.

I'm a Teamster and have no pension. Care to reevaluate your blanket statement?

 

[Aldo Raine]

Yes, but the real problem is that they don't get an education in fields in demand. They take classes that are easy or less challenging, and then get out and find there are no jobs because a lot of younger people did the same thing.

One of my tenants told me she was going to part-time to attend college for better work. I advised her the first thing she needs to do is look in the want ads and see what's in demand. She took some courses in college previously to learn how to draw blood in hospital labs. She got out and found there were no jobs in that field, and the ones that were out there didn't pay very much.

People flood the fields that they hear have good potential. Then those fields are oversupplied, and people are left out.



Because there are not enough good jobs. Why did phlebotomy fill up? Lord knows it can't be that great.

Which is why people need to get an education in fields of demand. Today few want to get an education in fields that also require physical work. Work like construction, HVAC, plumbing, electrician. They want to go to school, come out and get a job sitting behind a desk.

It's the same thing when I attended electronics school back in the early 80's. It's very difficult and all math, but regardless of the cost and complexity, the jobs didn't pay squat. Why? Because everybody and their mother was interested in electronics.

We are only worth as much as our employer can pay somebody else to do the same job and same quality of work. That's how wages are determined. It works fine and dandy until you throw a monkey wrench into the system like foreigners or unions. But outside of that, the supply and demand system is the best for employment.

If the overall pie is shrinking, then you are competing in a game that is going to have a lot of losers, no matter what.


You are conflating individual strategies for success, with good policies.


Telling an individual to go into a field that is in demand, is good advice.


It does not help the population as a whole, if the job market sucks ass.

I think the job market is fine, it's just that as a nation, we've become cheap.

Both my niece and nephew graduated college with massive debts. My nephew earned a Master and is doing fine. He works at a school for troubled children. My niece? Not so well. She graduated with a biology degree hoping to get into medical laboratory work. She's been a waitress for the last seven years. She even moved to Florida because they have better opportunities for the work she's trying to get. No luck yet.

I'm not much of a college guy, so when I decided to make a move from general labor, I chose truck driving. Why? Because even in the worst of times, somebody is always looking for an accomplished driver. I didn't want to be one of those guys on the news being interviewed saying somebody should create a job for something I knew how to do. I always wanted to be in demand.

If not for my medical problems, I would be doing much better today financially, but the point I'm making is that I chose a career that was always in demand. Anybody else can do the same. Currently we need over 30,000 new drivers that industry can't find. If you play your cards right, you can make some pretty good money driving a tractor-trailer.

If there were no unions you would be making minimum wage bud. If you were in the union you would have health insurance. Unions are needed for those things, if you were union you would have a pension as well and possibly an annuity. But you go on believing that the unions are bad and I will go on having health insurance.

My employer told us repeatedly, if we ever decide to unionize, he's closing the company. That's what unions have done to tens of millions of people.

I'm glad you think your crystal ball is so accurate that you know what would have happened without unions. Have unions done some good in the past? I believe so. I'm willing to admit that. But you refuse to admit the harm they brought us.

In my line of work and personal experience with unions, I could write a book on the subject. If I went to a company I knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not simply by how the employees worked. It's not a special talent, anybody could do it. Union employees were substandard to non-union employees every time it's compared. It's one of the reasons my employer quit accepting deliveries to UAW plants. There were times I was there for half the day trying to get unloaded; something a non-union crew could have done in a half-hour.

Believe your stupidity, I would work you under the table and have health benefits to boot. Your a tool, of course your company would close they want to pay you far less in wages and benies and that's exactly what they are doing. Stay stupid and without health insurance.

Actually in our business, most don't include healthcare benefits since the big-eared creep ruined our country. Prior to that, they had no choice.

But you have to play the cards you are handed in life. The only reason my employer would close down is because he wouldn't be able to compete with non-union companies. Union companies can't compete against non-union companies because non-union operations can produce products or services at a lower price.

The best we can do now is never allow Democrats to have leadership again so they don't screw things up even more for the working people.

Funny Teamsters have health benies and pensions.

I'm a Teamster and have no pension. Care to reevaluate your blanket statement?

2 Teamster locals within 20 miles here and they all have health benies and pensions.

 

[Flopper]

Wanna buy laundry equipment for your home? Good luck paying more than you used to, thanks to Donald J. Trump and his tariffs.
In this thread, we will come up with ideas as to how to lower said prices again:
Opinion | Trump’s tariffs are already backfiring

And Harley says they plan to move operation to EU and Trump threatens them with more taxes.

The first causalities of Trumps tariff war is 60 workers at Mid-Continent Nail, America's largest nail manufacturer. They lost their jobs on June 15 at a factory in a part of Missouri that voted overwhelmingly for Trump. The whole company could be out of business by Labor Day. There will be more to come, a lot more as the Trump war expands.

 

[Jarlaxle]

One more time: I'm a Teamster. (Almost ten years now.) No pension. I'm fine with that, and would RATHER not have one.

 

[edward37]

My new washing machine that I bought ON SALE damn near dries my clothes on the final spin.

Life is good.

My AMANA washer says designed, engineered and manufactured in the USA. It is HE and cost me $299.00. It doesn't have all the bells and whistles. It comes in white. It is very simple to use and does a fine job of washing laundry. I could not be happier. Now if it lasts 20 years like my old GE washer, I'll be ecstatic.

LOL LOL you'll be lucky for 4 years

 

[Jarlaxle]

I think conditions are ripe for unions to start coming back.

THe labor market is tightening up, but managers are stuck in the past, where they had unlimited access to cheap Third World labor, and could get away with being petty tyrants.


Workers with degrees, and technical skills are getting tired of being treated like burger flippers.

The definition of insanity is..............

Unions can't come back because even with tariffs, it would still be cheaper to produce elsewhere. When wages and benefits went too high, that's when companies started to bail out. They couldn't compete against overseas countries.

There was also a domino effect as well.

Years ago when I worked in medical, our company was building a pharmacy for our home customers. This was back in the early 80's and at the time UPS was on strike. After our Monday morning meeting, we all gathered around the coffee pot for a refill, and struck up a conversation about the UPS strike since it had an effect on us.

Nobody really knew our newest employee (the pharmacist) and during the conversation, she stomped away abruptly. We had no idea WTF her problem was. Nobody even said anything to her.

The coffee crowd broke up and I was the last one standing at the coffee pot when she returned. In her hand was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was an article about the strike.

The article pointed out that a senior UPS driver made around 55K a year. A pharmacist at the time made about 62K a year. In anger she said "If I only knew what I know today, I sure as hell wouldn't have went through all that education and expense to be a pharmacist. I would be over there (pointing to our overhead garage door) delivering packages in my brown uniform. How dare they go on strike? Do they know what me and my parents went through for my education? I should be the one on strike!"

The only way to draw people to the medical field was to pay them more which they had to do. Now our health insurance is too expensive for many to afford. The domino effect of unions.

Three points, the small one first.


1. There are a lot of factors driving medical cost, such as technology advances and degree inflation. Don't put too much weight on wages.





2. If we can't compete against Third World labor, then what is the game plan for trade and economic policy, in regards to serving the interests of the American citizens?

Because productivity increases used to translate to increased wages. That is not happening anymore.


What is the new plan?


THe only answer I have gotten so far on this, is that the US working class doesn't get a raise, until the entire Third World catches up.


That is not a viable solution in my opinion.


3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.

I don’t know what the solution is other than Americans sticking together and buying American made products not produced with automation.

The problem is we have three things to choose from:

Cheap products

Good paying American jobs.

Strong market growth for our personal investments or our IRA.

We can’t have all three. We must choose one or perhaps two. We chose cheaper products and stock market growth.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I always try to buy American, and where I can I do buy union made. Do not care if I have to pay more. Same as grocery shopping, I try to only shop at grocery stores that are union. I absolutely do not do self checkout because that is taking away jobs.

Employing people with good wages and good benies is always a good thing for people. MAGA!

I don't ever use self-checkout myself because in doing so, I'm helping to eliminate jobs.

I do, because I'm so damn sick of the mouth-breath idiots on the registers. I'd much rather use the self-checkouts and finish in half the time, and without things like bread bagged under canned fruit, or raw meat with insecticide.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The definition of insanity is..............

Unions can't come back because even with tariffs, it would still be cheaper to produce elsewhere. When wages and benefits went too high, that's when companies started to bail out. They couldn't compete against overseas countries.

There was also a domino effect as well.

Years ago when I worked in medical, our company was building a pharmacy for our home customers. This was back in the early 80's and at the time UPS was on strike. After our Monday morning meeting, we all gathered around the coffee pot for a refill, and struck up a conversation about the UPS strike since it had an effect on us.

Nobody really knew our newest employee (the pharmacist) and during the conversation, she stomped away abruptly. We had no idea WTF her problem was. Nobody even said anything to her.

The coffee crowd broke up and I was the last one standing at the coffee pot when she returned. In her hand was her pharmacy magazine. Highlighted was an article about the strike.

The article pointed out that a senior UPS driver made around 55K a year. A pharmacist at the time made about 62K a year. In anger she said "If I only knew what I know today, I sure as hell wouldn't have went through all that education and expense to be a pharmacist. I would be over there (pointing to our overhead garage door) delivering packages in my brown uniform. How dare they go on strike? Do they know what me and my parents went through for my education? I should be the one on strike!"

The only way to draw people to the medical field was to pay them more which they had to do. Now our health insurance is too expensive for many to afford. The domino effect of unions.

Three points, the small one first.


1. There are a lot of factors driving medical cost, such as technology advances and degree inflation. Don't put too much weight on wages.





2. If we can't compete against Third World labor, then what is the game plan for trade and economic policy, in regards to serving the interests of the American citizens?

Because productivity increases used to translate to increased wages. That is not happening anymore.


What is the new plan?


THe only answer I have gotten so far on this, is that the US working class doesn't get a raise, until the entire Third World catches up.


That is not a viable solution in my opinion.


3. And that doesn't explain our trade deficit with the EU or Japan, or South Korean or Taiwan, the cheating bastards.

I don’t know what the solution is other than Americans sticking together and buying American made products not produced with automation.

The problem is we have three things to choose from:

Cheap products

Good paying American jobs.

Strong market growth for our personal investments or our IRA.

We can’t have all three. We must choose one or perhaps two. We chose cheaper products and stock market growth.


Sent from my iPhone using USMessageBoard.com

I always try to buy American, and where I can I do buy union made. Do not care if I have to pay more. Same as grocery shopping, I try to only shop at grocery stores that are union. I absolutely do not do self checkout because that is taking away jobs.

Employing people with good wages and good benies is always a good thing for people. MAGA!

I don't ever use self-checkout myself because in doing so, I'm helping to eliminate jobs.

I do, because I'm so damn sick of the mouth-breath idiots on the registers. I'd much rather use the self-checkouts and finish in half the time, and without things like bread bagged under canned fruit, or raw meat with insecticide.

Well to each their own. But if we continue down this path, we won't be able to complain when people are not working. If you are not working today, it's because you're lazy unless disabled in some way. But then again we have plenty of jobs for people. Once we become totally dependent on machines, then those jobs will no longer be around.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes, but the real problem is that they don't get an education in fields in demand. They take classes that are easy or less challenging, and then get out and find there are no jobs because a lot of younger people did the same thing.

One of my tenants told me she was going to part-time to attend college for better work. I advised her the first thing she needs to do is look in the want ads and see what's in demand. She took some courses in college previously to learn how to draw blood in hospital labs. She got out and found there were no jobs in that field, and the ones that were out there didn't pay very much.

People flood the fields that they hear have good potential. Then those fields are oversupplied, and people are left out.



Because there are not enough good jobs. Why did phlebotomy fill up? Lord knows it can't be that great.

Which is why people need to get an education in fields of demand. Today few want to get an education in fields that also require physical work. Work like construction, HVAC, plumbing, electrician. They want to go to school, come out and get a job sitting behind a desk.

It's the same thing when I attended electronics school back in the early 80's. It's very difficult and all math, but regardless of the cost and complexity, the jobs didn't pay squat. Why? Because everybody and their mother was interested in electronics.

We are only worth as much as our employer can pay somebody else to do the same job and same quality of work. That's how wages are determined. It works fine and dandy until you throw a monkey wrench into the system like foreigners or unions. But outside of that, the supply and demand system is the best for employment.

If the overall pie is shrinking, then you are competing in a game that is going to have a lot of losers, no matter what.


You are conflating individual strategies for success, with good policies.


Telling an individual to go into a field that is in demand, is good advice.


It does not help the population as a whole, if the job market sucks ass.

I think the job market is fine, it's just that as a nation, we've become cheap.

Both my niece and nephew graduated college with massive debts. My nephew earned a Master and is doing fine. He works at a school for troubled children. My niece? Not so well. She graduated with a biology degree hoping to get into medical laboratory work. She's been a waitress for the last seven years. She even moved to Florida because they have better opportunities for the work she's trying to get. No luck yet.

I'm not much of a college guy, so when I decided to make a move from general labor, I chose truck driving. Why? Because even in the worst of times, somebody is always looking for an accomplished driver. I didn't want to be one of those guys on the news being interviewed saying somebody should create a job for something I knew how to do. I always wanted to be in demand.

If not for my medical problems, I would be doing much better today financially, but the point I'm making is that I chose a career that was always in demand. Anybody else can do the same. Currently we need over 30,000 new drivers that industry can't find. If you play your cards right, you can make some pretty good money driving a tractor-trailer.

If there were no unions you would be making minimum wage bud. If you were in the union you would have health insurance. Unions are needed for those things, if you were union you would have a pension as well and possibly an annuity. But you go on believing that the unions are bad and I will go on having health insurance.

My employer told us repeatedly, if we ever decide to unionize, he's closing the company. That's what unions have done to tens of millions of people.

I'm glad you think your crystal ball is so accurate that you know what would have happened without unions. Have unions done some good in the past? I believe so. I'm willing to admit that. But you refuse to admit the harm they brought us.

In my line of work and personal experience with unions, I could write a book on the subject. If I went to a company I knew nothing about, I could tell you within ten minutes if they were union or not simply by how the employees worked. It's not a special talent, anybody could do it. Union employees were substandard to non-union employees every time it's compared. It's one of the reasons my employer quit accepting deliveries to UAW plants. There were times I was there for half the day trying to get unloaded; something a non-union crew could have done in a half-hour.

Believe your stupidity, I would work you under the table and have health benefits to boot. Your a tool, of course your company would close they want to pay you far less in wages and benies and that's exactly what they are doing. Stay stupid and without health insurance.

Actually in our business, most don't include healthcare benefits since the big-eared creep ruined our country. Prior to that, they had no choice.

But you have to play the cards you are handed in life. The only reason my employer would close down is because he wouldn't be able to compete with non-union companies. Union companies can't compete against non-union companies because non-union operations can produce products or services at a lower price.

The best we can do now is never allow Democrats to have leadership again so they don't screw things up even more for the working people.

Funny Teamsters have health benies and pensions.

I'm a Teamster and have no pension. Care to reevaluate your blanket statement?

I'm not in a union at all, and I have a great retirement plan. My employer puts in 8% regardless if the employee contributes or not. Been growing for over 20 years now, and should provide me with a pretty good supplement to SS by the time I retire. The best part is my employer can't touch it. He sends the money to an investment firm that handles the IRA.

 

[Rexx Taylor]

If 17 bucks per 100 is going to break you, get a fuckin rock.

that's ok...
I will just wash my clothes on the beach.

 

[Brain357]

The cost of container shipping is more than the cost of many products.

REally? Cause I've seen very cheap products from far, far away.

Made with really cheap labor. We don't have that advantage here. But there are certain products that aren't imported like paper. Even with cheap labor the value of a container of paper is not enough to be imported as the container costs are too high.

I thought robots were replacing everyone. Do Chinese robots work cheaper than American robots?

Less robots used with lots of really cheap labor.

What's your answer? Do we give up on the very idea of improving things for the working poor and Middle Class?

No, but you don't do something we know doesn't work. Bush just tried steel tariffs, we lost jobs. If you care about the middle class you should wonder how this happened:
CEOs make $15.6 million on average—here’s how much their pay has increased compared to yours
According to a report from the Economic Policy Institute, the average CEO pay is 271 times the nearly $58,000 annual average pay of the typical American worker.

Although the 271:1 ratio is high, it's still not as high as in previous years. In 2015, CEOs made 286 times the salary of a typical worker and 299 times more in 2014. Compare that to 1978, when CEO earnings were roughly 30 times the typical worker's salary.

And how about that war on Unions? Have you noticed with their decline, so goes the middle class?
Middle-Class Decline Mirrors The Fall Of Unions In One Chart | HuffPost

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

REally? Cause I've seen very cheap products from far, far away.

Made with really cheap labor. We don't have that advantage here. But there are certain products that aren't imported like paper. Even with cheap labor the value of a container of paper is not enough to be imported as the container costs are too high.

I thought robots were replacing everyone. Do Chinese robots work cheaper than American robots?

Less robots used with lots of really cheap labor.

What's your answer? Do we give up on the very idea of improving things for the working poor and Middle Class?

No, but you don't do something we know doesn't work. Bush just tried steel tariffs, we lost jobs. If you care about the middle class you should wonder how this happened:
CEOs make $15.6 million on average—here’s how much their pay has increased compared to yours
According to a report from the Economic Policy Institute, the average CEO pay is 271 times the nearly $58,000 annual average pay of the typical American worker.

Although the 271:1 ratio is high, it's still not as high as in previous years. In 2015, CEOs made 286 times the salary of a typical worker and 299 times more in 2014. Compare that to 1978, when CEO earnings were roughly 30 times the typical worker's salary.

And how about that war on Unions? Have you noticed with their decline, so goes the middle class?
Middle-Class Decline Mirrors The Fall Of Unions In One Chart | HuffPost

Unions, taxes and regulations are what chased jobs out of the country in the first place. Left to unions, they would chase out the rest.

You and I own widget factories. We are competitors. You sell more widgets than I do, so I want to hire a CEO that will change all that. The CEO wanted you to pay him 5 mil a year, but you refused and gave the money to your labor. I decide to pay that CEO the five mil, and in a couple of years, I get 50% of your customers because of his skill, connections, and experience.

That's how it works in business. Not just business, but in sports and entertainment as well. You are paid by your past performances, and the highest bidder gets your services.

 

[Flopper]

Wanna buy laundry equipment for your home? Good luck paying more than you used to, thanks to Donald J. Trump and his tariffs. In this thread, we will come up with ideas as to how to lower said prices again:
Opinion | Trump’s tariffs are already backfiring

Yes, with protective tariffs, some items will cost more, because they're not being made in dirt-wage factories overseas but by Americans who are earning a decent wage and benefits in American factories. And instead of part of the profits going overseas, all of those profits are staying here in our country. And those American factory workers, instead of working at some service-industry job making $10-$15 an hour, are making $20-$30 an hour and are able to buy more goods and services in their area.

I do wish one of you folks who keep bashing protective tariffs would explain why China has grown by leaps and bounds with a fiercely protectionist tariffs. China's growth rate has dwarfed ours for years, and yet China has some of the highest tariffs in the world. China understands that protecting your own industries and products is sound policy. We used to understand that as well.

That is exactly the way most Americans see tariffs. They protect American workers and encourage people to buy American. But is that what really happens? Take a look at some examples.

Example 1:
Hershey's buys million of feet of foil wrappers specially made for their candies which comes from a plant in China that specializes in this product. Tariffs make the wrappers more expense for Hershey. Wrappers could be produced in the US but it would require a sizable investment to produce the product and once tariffs are removed, Hershey would return to the lower priced Chinese company. So Hershey continues to buy the wrappers from the company in China and pays a 20% duty and prices rise accordingly. How did Americans benefit?

Example 2: Mid-Continental Nail, the largest producer of nails in US purchases steel from Mexico for half what they would pay in the US. The company must now pay a 25% tariff which pushes their prices both domestic and international higher than the competition. The company has just laid off 60 workers and is facing totally shutdown in Sept and a layoff of 500 workers. How did Americans benefit?

Example 3:
Hypothetically let's assume Florida produces the finest grapefruits in the world and Mexico produces the finest tomatoes in the world. The US puts a 25% tariff on tomatoes from Mexico and Mexico puts a 25% tariff on grapefruits from the US.

In the US, Grapefruit producers will be selling less to Mexico and in the US tomato buyers will be faced with a 25% increase in price if they buy Mexican so some people will elect to pay less and buy poorer quality US tomatoes and some will pay the higher price for the higher quality Mexican tomatoes.

Bottom line is Americans and Mexicans will spend more for produce and get less.

This is why countries are always trying to negotiate lower tariffs. Tariffs cost jobs, raise prices, lower quality. The only real beneficiary are those that collect the duty.

 

[Brain357]

Made with really cheap labor. We don't have that advantage here. But there are certain products that aren't imported like paper. Even with cheap labor the value of a container of paper is not enough to be imported as the container costs are too high.

I thought robots were replacing everyone. Do Chinese robots work cheaper than American robots?

Less robots used with lots of really cheap labor.

What's your answer? Do we give up on the very idea of improving things for the working poor and Middle Class?

No, but you don't do something we know doesn't work. Bush just tried steel tariffs, we lost jobs. If you care about the middle class you should wonder how this happened:
CEOs make $15.6 million on average—here’s how much their pay has increased compared to yours
According to a report from the Economic Policy Institute, the average CEO pay is 271 times the nearly $58,000 annual average pay of the typical American worker.

Although the 271:1 ratio is high, it's still not as high as in previous years. In 2015, CEOs made 286 times the salary of a typical worker and 299 times more in 2014. Compare that to 1978, when CEO earnings were roughly 30 times the typical worker's salary.

And how about that war on Unions? Have you noticed with their decline, so goes the middle class?
Middle-Class Decline Mirrors The Fall Of Unions In One Chart | HuffPost

Unions, taxes and regulations are what chased jobs out of the country in the first place. Left to unions, they would chase out the rest.

You and I own widget factories. We are competitors. You sell more widgets than I do, so I want to hire a CEO that will change all that. The CEO wanted you to pay him 5 mil a year, but you refused and gave the money to your labor. I decide to pay that CEO the five mil, and in a couple of years, I get 50% of your customers because of his skill, connections, and experience.

That's how it works in business. Not just business, but in sports and entertainment as well. You are paid by your past performances, and the highest bidder gets your services.

Why are you so sure Ray? Trump got rid of regulations, I don't see any increase in wages. Trump gave a huge decrease in taxes, I don't see any increase in wages. Unions have been in declines for years, where are the increased wages? You have been had ray.

You mean the corporate board is loaded with other CEOs who want raises. So of course they all vote to give themselves raises. It is a racket.
CEO Pay and Performance Often Don’t Match Up

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I thought robots were replacing everyone. Do Chinese robots work cheaper than American robots?

Less robots used with lots of really cheap labor.

What's your answer? Do we give up on the very idea of improving things for the working poor and Middle Class?

No, but you don't do something we know doesn't work. Bush just tried steel tariffs, we lost jobs. If you care about the middle class you should wonder how this happened:
CEOs make $15.6 million on average—here’s how much their pay has increased compared to yours
According to a report from the Economic Policy Institute, the average CEO pay is 271 times the nearly $58,000 annual average pay of the typical American worker.

Although the 271:1 ratio is high, it's still not as high as in previous years. In 2015, CEOs made 286 times the salary of a typical worker and 299 times more in 2014. Compare that to 1978, when CEO earnings were roughly 30 times the typical worker's salary.

And how about that war on Unions? Have you noticed with their decline, so goes the middle class?
Middle-Class Decline Mirrors The Fall Of Unions In One Chart | HuffPost

Unions, taxes and regulations are what chased jobs out of the country in the first place. Left to unions, they would chase out the rest.

You and I own widget factories. We are competitors. You sell more widgets than I do, so I want to hire a CEO that will change all that. The CEO wanted you to pay him 5 mil a year, but you refused and gave the money to your labor. I decide to pay that CEO the five mil, and in a couple of years, I get 50% of your customers because of his skill, connections, and experience.

That's how it works in business. Not just business, but in sports and entertainment as well. You are paid by your past performances, and the highest bidder gets your services.

Why are you so sure Ray? Trump got rid of regulations, I don't see any increase in wages. Trump gave a huge decrease in taxes, I don't see any increase in wages. Unions have been in declines for years, where are the increased wages? You have been had ray.

You mean the corporate board is loaded with other CEOs who want raises. So of course they all vote to give themselves raises. It is a racket.
CEO Pay and Performance Often Don’t Match Up

I'm not talking about raises so much, I'm talking about why companies make decisions that they do.

But since you bring up raises, thousands of Americans did get raises, bonuses, or both thanks to the tax cut.

You see, we have three options to choose from when it comes to business. We can have......

Lower wages and higher company profits which increase our investment returns.
Lower wages, keep jobs in America, and lower cost products.
Higher wages, lower return on investments, and higher priced products.

We can't have all three. Something has to give.

So we chose lower priced products and higher investment returns since many of us have our IRA in the market. When we made that choice, we put wages on the back burner. We don't care.

When unions had the strength, they didn't give us any option. We had higher priced products, jobs leaving by the millions, lower returns on our investments (which many at the time didn't have) and great paying jobs.

Today we have choices, and we made the ones we wanted.

 

[Flopper]

This is not socialism, but common sense. Unless you want your future to be in China.

The biggest and best countries are by default the winners of trade wars, yet we have kept losing so much.

Trump and you all are wanting us to be emulating China, which has a socialist market economy. The more we copy them, the more we move towards socialism

Our country is in the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in its history. We have, as multiple threads on this forum tell us, record low unemployment and our economy is BOOMING.

Explain how that equals losing? If we are losing so much, how is our economy so amazing?

No, actually we want him to protect our national capital. If you have a problem with that, maybe China is the place for you. That's where all the jobs would be headed under your insane plan.

My insane plan is this weird thing called "freedom" and a free market. Perhaps you've heard of them, they used to be the hallmarks of this great country. But now we have people like you that want the central government to dictate to us what to buy and to punish us if we do not buy the right product made in the right place.

You want to take away freedom of choice and then you tell me to move to China. Fuck, I do not need to move there, people like you are turning our great country into China.

I love how you totally ignored the fact our economy is doing great right, prior to the socialist tariffs being put into place by our dear leader.

The free market is the best option. Protecting an industry that can't compete in world markets will just make it less competitive and less able to compete. On a worldwide stage, tariffs reward companies that are less efficient, penalize those that are. Consumers pay more and get less. The only sure winners are the people that collect the tariffs.

Consider a tariff of 25% on widgets. A small manufactures buys widgets in china because they are 10% below the US price so he will order from the US company paying an additional 10% rather pay a 25% tariff but what if there is no suitable US source. A large manufacture buys from China at 40% lower than the US price. So he has no choice but to continue to buy from China and thus pay the 25% tariff. Assuming he sells to a large domestic and foreign market, his prices are now no longer competitive so he must make adjustments such as moving production outside the US, dropping the product line.

Since the future of tariffs can't be predicted, businesses can not plan efficiently. A tariff may be a windfall and the company expands expecting more business and suddenly the tariff is eliminated.

 

[Norman]

This is not socialism, but common sense. Unless you want your future to be in China.

The biggest and best countries are by default the winners of trade wars, yet we have kept losing so much.

Trump and you all are wanting us to be emulating China, which has a socialist market economy. The more we copy them, the more we move towards socialism

Our country is in the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in its history. We have, as multiple threads on this forum tell us, record low unemployment and our economy is BOOMING.

Explain how that equals losing? If we are losing so much, how is our economy so amazing?

No, actually we want him to protect our national capital. If you have a problem with that, maybe China is the place for you. That's where all the jobs would be headed under your insane plan.

My insane plan is this weird thing called "freedom" and a free market. Perhaps you've heard of them, they used to be the hallmarks of this great country. But now we have people like you that want the central government to dictate to us what to buy and to punish us if we do not buy the right product made in the right place.

You want to take away freedom of choice and then you tell me to move to China. Fuck, I do not need to move there, people like you are turning our great country into China.

I love how you totally ignored the fact our economy is doing great right, prior to the socialist tariffs being put into place by our dear leader.

The free market is the best option. Protecting an industry that can't compete in world markets will just make it less competitive and less able to compete. On a worldwide stage, tariffs reward companies that are less efficient, penalize those that are. Consumers pay more and get less. The only sure winners are the people that collect the tariffs.

Consider a tariff of 25% on widgets. A small manufactures buys widgets in china because they are 10% below the US price so he will order from the US company paying an additional 10% rather pay a 25% tariff but what if there is no suitable US source. A large manufacture buys from China at 40% lower than the US price. So he has no choice but to continue to buy from China and thus pay the 25% tariff. Assuming he sells to a large domestic and foreign market, his prices are now no longer competitive so he must make adjustments such as moving production outside the US, dropping the product line.

Since the future of tariffs can't be predicted, businesses can not plan efficiently. A tariff may be a windfall and the company expands expecting more business and suddenly the tariff is eliminated.

So much bullshit in this, it's incredible.

Protecting an industry that may not be able to compete, because China has slave wages... may be worthwhile unless you want the whole industrial capacity of this country to be relocated to China.

If you honestly believe this nonsense, better start packing your bags. Your future job will be in China at one dollar a week. They don't have any problems protecting their industry by the way.

 

[Picaro]

Wanna buy laundry equipment for your home? Good luck paying more than you used to, thanks to Donald J. Trump and his tariffs.
In this thread, we will come up with ideas as to how to lower said prices again:
Opinion | Trump’s tariffs are already backfiring

No shit ???

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.... and so on.

Gee, sounds all 'dire' n stuff, those tariffs.

 

[Picaro]

This is not socialism, but common sense. Unless you want your future to be in China.

The biggest and best countries are by default the winners of trade wars, yet we have kept losing so much.

Trump and you all are wanting us to be emulating China, which has a socialist market economy. The more we copy them, the more we move towards socialism

Our country is in the 2nd longest period of economic expansion in its history. We have, as multiple threads on this forum tell us, record low unemployment and our economy is BOOMING.

Explain how that equals losing? If we are losing so much, how is our economy so amazing?

No, actually we want him to protect our national capital. If you have a problem with that, maybe China is the place for you. That's where all the jobs would be headed under your insane plan.

My insane plan is this weird thing called "freedom" and a free market. Perhaps you've heard of them, they used to be the hallmarks of this great country. But now we have people like you that want the central government to dictate to us what to buy and to punish us if we do not buy the right product made in the right place.

You want to take away freedom of choice and then you tell me to move to China. Fuck, I do not need to move there, people like you are turning our great country into China.

I love how you totally ignored the fact our economy is doing great right, prior to the socialist tariffs being put into place by our dear leader.

The free market is the best option. Protecting an industry that can't compete in world markets will just make it less competitive and less able to compete. On a worldwide stage, tariffs reward companies that are less efficient, penalize those that are. Consumers pay more and get less. The only sure winners are the people that collect the tariffs.

Consider a tariff of 25% on widgets. A small manufactures buys widgets in china because they are 10% below the US price so he will order from the US company paying an additional 10% rather pay a 25% tariff but what if there is no suitable US source. A large manufacture buys from China at 40% lower than the US price. So he has no choice but to continue to buy from China and thus pay the 25% tariff. Assuming he sells to a large domestic and foreign market, his prices are now no longer competitive so he must make adjustments such as moving production outside the US, dropping the product line.

Since the future of tariffs can't be predicted, businesses can not plan efficiently. A tariff may be a windfall and the company expands expecting more business and suddenly the tariff is eliminated.

You know squat about markets. There are no 'free markets', and Red China most certainly doesn't have any, nor does any other country have as free a 'market' as the U.S., which has to heavily subsidize all those 'free trade' hoaxes to make them 'profitable' for importers and labor racketeers in the first place.

Since when did Democrats suddenly become 'free market' loons, anyway? Oh yeah, right when their puppet masters told them to.

 

[Picaro]

That is exactly the way most Americans see tariffs. They protect American workers and encourage people to buy American. But is that what really happens? Take a look at some examples.

Example 1:
Hershey's buys million of feet of foil wrappers specially made for their candies which comes from a plant in China that specializes in this product. Tariffs make the wrappers more expense for Hershey. Wrappers could be produced in the US but it would require a sizable investment to produce the product and once tariffs are removed, Hershey would return to the lower priced Chinese company. So Hershey continues to buy the wrappers from the company in China and pays a 20% duty and prices rise accordingly. How did Americans benefit?

lol candy is mostly poison. Don't need it, we already have a lot of fat people with diabetes.

Example 2: Mid-Continental Nail, the largest producer of nails in US purchases steel from Mexico for half what they would pay in the US. The company must now pay a 25% tariff which pushes their prices both domestic and international higher than the competition. The company has just laid off 60 workers and is facing totally shutdown in Sept and a layoff of 500 workers. How did Americans benefit?

Take away the infrastructure the U.S. paid for, the tax bennies, and the labor racketeering, charge these foreign manfacturers for the technology transfers and Mexican steel isn't competitive with american steel, plus it's crappy quality on top of that. Besides, prices go down when American companies get more common and more production is domestic.

Example 3:
Hypothetically let's assume Florida produces the finest grapefruits in the world and Mexico produces the finest tomatoes in the world. The US puts a 25% tariff on tomatoes from Mexico and Mexico puts a 25% tariff on grapefruits from the US.

Rubbish. We grow both, don't need Mexican imports for either crop. Don't need illegal aliens to lick them, either. Both are highly automated now. FYI, American tomatoes are high quality; visit Arkansas, Texas, and some other states once in a while; you might actually learn something about your country that doesn't come from Communists peddling bullshit.

Bottom line is Americans and Mexicans will spend more for produce and get less.

That always was the case under 'free trade', so no point here. you seem to think these big companies were actually passing all those tax and labor cost savings along to consumers or something.

 

[Ecocertifmrl]

Wanna buy laundry equipment for your home? Good luck paying more than you used to, thanks to Donald J. Trump and his tariffs. In this thread, we will come up with ideas as to how to lower said prices again:
Opinion | Trump’s tariffs are already backfiring

Yes, with protective tariffs, some items will cost more, because they're not being made in dirt-wage factories overseas but by Americans who are earning a decent wage and benefits in American factories. And instead of part of the profits going overseas, all of those profits are staying here in our country. And those American factory workers, instead of working at some service-industry job making $10-$15 an hour, are making $20-$30 an hour and are able to buy more goods and services in their area.

I do wish one of you folks who keep bashing protective tariffs would explain why China has grown by leaps and bounds with a fiercely protectionist tariffs. China's growth rate has dwarfed ours for years, and yet China has some of the highest tariffs in the world. China understands that protecting your own industries and products is sound policy. We used to understand that as well.

You know Trump paid many of those "patriotic companies" to stay from your tax money. Bribery