We are experiencing the biggest scandal in America's political history right now.

[SeaMajor7]

It sure does. He did not have the authority to take them, then lie that he had them, and obstruct their return.

He is a liar and a bully. Oldestyle is doing the same, lying about a former President's authority that does not exist.

YES HE DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The GASLIGHTING and outright LIES from YOU and the Marinated one in this thread are PATHETIC.

 

[Marener]

Gee, I don't know...perhaps they should have ASKED? INSTEAD OF SENDING AN FBI SWAT TEAM FROM WASHINGTON DC!!!!!!!!!!!! That's a "rational" thing? You've got to be kidding me!

All markings mean is that what was in a folder was classified to that level at some point. The markings don't magically change if a President decides to take it with him. Admit it, Marener...you have no way of knowing if Trump declassified those documents. You're just assuming that he didn't because it's the only way you can even BEGIN to justify a SWAT team raid on the home of a former President!

Yes, it is rational to treat highly classified military documents as highly classified military documents when there's no reason to treat them otherwise.

The markings on the documents are changed when the information is declassified.

 

[Marener]

The grand jury subpoena doesn't mean squat, Marener! It doesn't change Trump's authority to possess those documents. A grand jury hears one side of a legal argument and doesn't hear anything from the other side. Do you honestly think that the DOJ told that grand jury that President's are the ultimate authority on classification?

The grand jury subpoena actually means quite a lot.

It means you have a legal obligation to comply with the order and if you don't, you are obstructing justice.

Trump was told this by his lawyers, but he chose to hide the documents anyway.

 

[Oldestyle]

Yes, it is rational to treat highly classified military documents as highly classified military documents when there's no reason to treat them otherwise.

The markings on the documents are changed when the information is declassified.

Changed by who? The documents were in the possession of someone with the total authority to declassify anything he wanted to. You think Trump needed to change the markings to make it legal? LOL Seriously?

 

[Marener]

Changed by who? The documents were in the possession of someone with the total authority to declassify anything he wanted to. You think Trump needed to change the markings to make it legal? LOL Seriously?

Changed by the agency who retains the documents once the determination to declassify them is made.

That way people know the information is declassified.

This is one of many reasons why it makes no sense to secretly declassify things without telling anyone.

 

[Oldestyle]

The grand jury subpoena actually means quite a lot.

It means you have a legal obligation to comply with the order and if you don't, you are obstructing justice.

Trump was told this by his lawyers, but he chose to hide the documents anyway.

What was he "hiding"? Documents that he had the authority to possess? Who ordered that raid on Mar A Lago? Who drew up a search warrant that allowed seizure of not only the documents that were alleged to be classified but ANY documents related to Trump's four years in office and any other materials that were near to those documents! Literally that might be the broadest search warrant EVER issued anywhere in the entire country and they went to a "Magistrate" to get it! You're going to raid the home of a former President of the United States and you go to a "Magistrate" to obtain the search warrant? You don't use the local FBI to conduct this raid...you bring in a Swat team from Washington DC to do this! It's so patently obvious that this was a political hit job orchestrated by higher ups in the Garland DOJ against the chief political rival of a sitting President! Obstruction of justice? Justice isn't a word that should ever be associated with Joe Biden's DOJ!

 

[SeaMajor7]

More MARINATED gaslighting round and round we go.

 

[Marener]

What was he "hiding"? Documents that he had the authority to possess? Who ordered that raid on Mar A Lago? Who drew up a search warrant that allowed seizure of not only the documents that were alleged to be classified but ANY documents related to Trump's four years in office and any other materials that were near to those documents! Literally that might be the broadest search warrant EVER issued anywhere in the entire country and they went to a "Magistrate" to get it! You're going to raid the home of a former President of the United States and you go to a "Magistrate" to obtain the search warrant? You don't use the local FBI to conduct this raid...you bring in a Swat team from Washington DC to do this! It's so patently obvious that this was a political hit job orchestrated by higher ups in the Garland DOJ against the chief political rival of a sitting President! Obstruction of justice? Justice isn't a word that should ever be associated with Joe Biden's DOJ!

He was hiding documents he was legally required to turn over to the DoJ.

You can argue until you’re blue in the fact about whether they were declassified or personal, neither of which has been stated by Trump to anyone in government. It doesn’t actually matter. Once he received the grand jury subpoena, he had a legal obligation to comply.

 

[Oldestyle]

Changed by the agency who retains the documents once the determination to declassify them is made.

That way people know the information is declassified.

This is one of many reasons why it makes no sense to secretly declassify things without telling anyone.

Trump retained the documents not some "agency"! Something that he was well within his rights to do. Something that a judge had ruled previously that Bill Clinton was well within HIS rights to do! Who are these "people" that you think need to know that papers in a President's possession are or are not classified?

 

[Marener]

Trump retained the documents not some "agency"! Something that he was well within his rights to do. Something that a judge had ruled previously that Bill Clinton was well within HIS rights to do! Who are these "people" that you think need to know that papers in a President's possession are or are not classified?

Lots of people need to know.

If the information is not classified, the people of the country have a right to access that information.

So who needs to know? We do.

But more to the point, the DoJ needs to know because the national security division is in charge of investigating mishandling of classified information.

 

[Oldestyle]

Lots of people need to know.

If the information is not classified, the people of the country have a right to access that information.

So who needs to know? We do.

But more to the point, the DoJ needs to know because the national security division is in charge of investigating mishandling of classified information.

Oh, now it's "lots of people"? The whole nation needs to know? Since when? Since when has the nation needed to know what a President has done with the classification of documents? You've gone off the rails with this argument, Marener and you've done so because you KNOW that a President doesn't have to tell ANYONE what he's done with the classification of documents!

 

[Marener]

Oh, now it's "lots of people"? The whole nation needs to know? Since when? Since when has the nation needed to know what a President has done with the classification of documents? You've gone off the rails with this argument, Marener and you've done so because you KNOW that a President doesn't have to tell ANYONE what he's done with the classification of documents!

It seems like you’re ignoring the entire reason to classify information in the first place.

Like I said earlier, which you ignored, if Trump declassified information, the public has a right to know. Have you heard of FOIA?

 

[Oldestyle]

It seems like you’re ignoring the entire reason to classify information in the first place.

Like I said earlier, which you ignored, if Trump declassified information, the public has a right to know. Have you heard of FOIA?

Would that be the Freedom of Information Act that was used to try and get Bill Clinton's tapes? The FOIA that the judge in that case ruled couldn't demand to see a President's personal materials? The judge that ruled that a President and only a President had authority over what was or wasn't personal?

 

[Oldestyle]

It seems like you’re ignoring the entire reason to classify information in the first place.

Like I said earlier, which you ignored, if Trump declassified information, the public has a right to know. Have you heard of FOIA?

While you ignore that the President is the ultimate authority on classification and has no duty to "tell" anyone when he changes the classification of a document?

 

[Marener]

Would that be the Freedom of Information Act that was used to try and get Bill Clinton's tapes? The FOIA that the judge in that case ruled couldn't demand to see a President's personal materials? The judge that ruled that a President and only a President had authority over what was or wasn't personal?

So many things to correct here, so bear with me.

First, it’s the information that is classified. So if Trump declared the documents declassified, then the information on those documents is declassified. Therefore, the government no longer treats that information as classified on any document with that information.

Second, the documents that Trump have aren’t the only copies. There are copies of those documents in the government’s hands. After all, these documents were created by the government for goventment purposes. Trump doesn’t declassify just one copy of the document, every copy is declassified. Therefore, a FIOA request wouldn’t require access to the documents that Trump has, which was a sticking point with the Judicial Watch case. The government did not have custody of the tapes, and Judicial Watch was demanding they take them back somehow, which was not possible. That’s not the case here.

Lastly, it defies any sense of logic for anyone to merely assume that Trump would have considered highly classified military documents as personal documents. No one would make any such assumption.

 

[Marener]

While you ignore that the President is the ultimate authority on classification and has no duty to "tell" anyone when he changes the classification of a document?

If he doesn’t tell anyone they’re declassified, then he has no right to complain when the documents are treated as classified by the government.

The point is that it makes absolutely no sense for him to declassify information without telling anyone.

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

YES HE DID!!!!!!!!!!!!!
The GASLIGHTING and outright LIES from YOU and the Marinated one in this thread are PATHETIC.

Trump obstructed justice. He refused to give them back and refused to obey a subpoena. Criminal activity by Trump.

 

[SeaMajor7]

Trump obstructed justice. He refused to give them back and refused to obey a subpoena. Criminal activity by Trump.

SENATOR Biden did far WORSE!!!!!

 

[John Edgar Slow Horses]

SENATOR Biden did far WORSE!!!!!

Not 1: 100 in scope he did not. Biden is pure as the white snow compared to the dirty city slush of Trump.

Not to worry. He won't be remandeded. But he will be a felon.

It will be GA that remands him into custody,

 

[SeaMajor7]

Not 1: 100 in scope he did not. Biden is pure as the white snow compared to the dirty city slush of Trump.

Not to worry. He won't be remandeded. But he will be a felon.

It will be GA that remands him into custody,

You seem like an AI bot with output settings programmed to STUPID.