We get to pay for student loans. Great.

[DBA]

The European view here is simpler...

How far you go in education should not be determined by how wealthy your parents are OR how much personal debt you can take...

Fundamentally Education is something that we got for free and something we should be passing on for free... We should not make young adults have to take the burden of it. The older generation didn't have to take it...

Education should be based on the individuals

• Choice
• Ability
• Hard work

Young Adults should be given a blank slate to be able to progress without debt and the payments of that debt.
Guess what.. Tax is a far better and fairer way to have them pay.

This creates a social change in workers... In Europe after a leaving college many kids actually take a year or two and travel, Ireland favourite is Australia and Canada. They travel educated and take jobs related to their education, what they learn is actually an alternative way to there home country way of doing things. This brings in new ideas and ways of working. You still hear various professions discuss the way things are done in many countries around the world and the advantages and disadvantages of all of them... Imagine how much better workers these relatively young people are..
The new workers, work to live and want to bring that attitude with them too... They become more focused on supporting families unlike in the US..

The US is more successful than Europe overall. You can pick and choose some individual countries in Europe that are doing ok, but overall, there is no comparison. Also, in the US, we admit students into colleges that should never be in college in the first place. If college is “free”, I doubt they let a mediocre student choose their college and their major. The admissions requirements are generally much stricter. How would that jive with the Democrats in the US drive towards diversity over ability?

For some reason, the left in the US is always defending Western Europe, chalk full of countries that spend a ton of money on social programs because those in NATAO know the US has their back on the military front. They are like children that spend all their money on candy because they know their parents will be buying their meals. They live in a fantasy land. If the US pulled out of NATO, these countries would be forced to grow up.

 

[Mac-7]

The college academics aren't earning nearly as much money as the MBAs who run the show, earning upwards of a million dollars per annum (if not more) at any major university.

Its not all about take-home salary

Academics want an ivory tower higher and more lavish than their rivals at other schools

Many want to be relieved of the burden of actually teaching so that they can do “research”

So they need to hire grad students to do their job for them

 

[multivita-man]

This is known as supply and demand. As a baby boomer our classes were larger back then. I left school in 1978. In a class of about 30 students, maybe seven or eight actually went to college. Others got jobs or went for a trade.

Today out of a class of 30, probably 20 to 25 of those students are going to college.

I'm glad you brought that up - thanks for sharing your experience. I think one major difference between now and in 1978 is that there was still a stronger job market for people who could just do things with their hands. It wasn't nearly as good as it was at the start of the decade, but still better than 10 and 20 years forward. Sure, people can still be plumbers and electricians, which is fine, but there were also manufacturing jobs at major industrial facilities, many of which were unionized and offered good wages and benefits.

We really ought to be pushing more of that, rather than pushing the idea that just every dude and dudette should be going to college to 'better themselves'. We don't need everyone having a college degree - it probably cheapens the true value of that degree for one thing, if we're making that the primary goal. But for another it changes the focus of education away from what it should be: higher ed shouldn't exist to make us more employable. It should exist to make us more well-rounded thinkers. If we want a better skilled overall workforce, we need to improve the quality of base knowledge in K-12 education and then we need people to have gainful entry-level employment apprenticeship opportunities as they leave high school.

That's why it's so expensive today. Colleges don't have to compete for students like they did in the 70's. Today you're lucky if a college selects you.

Colleges have never had more problems recruiting students than now. They were relying on international students, mainly Chinese, to fill that void, but now that we're at loggerheads with China, those students are staying home. Colleges have over-extended themselves and some simply aren't going to survive.

So what happens if government pays for college? Everybody and their mother will want to attend. And what happens when there is even more demand than supply? You guessed it.

It's not a problem if we pay for college through taxation. The problem we now have is that the government is a lender that has made a lot of bad, no-questions-asked loans. But rather than evaluating their lending practices, they're going to encourage more bad borrowing. Not that I don't sympathize with underwater borrowers/students - I do. But there's got to be a better way than what we have now. We're using federal money to encourage a student debt bubble.

 

[JohnDB]

Some careers do not pay sufficiently....but we need educated people to fill these roles.

Nurses, school teachers, and etc are in high demand...but no one qualified to do these jobs. That's why these things generally speaking are given the free education (forgiven debt after a specific service period in those fields)

Blanket debt for the professional basket weaver, actor, or ancient mideval poetry majors? Not a good idea!

 

[Polishprince]

Most people on this thread are wrong.
Graduating students are not making $100k a year.
It is more like $30k, if they can get a job at all.

That's just not true at all. My nephew is a recent graduate from Akron and recently bought a new Cadillac and a new townhome in the tremendous town of Imperial PA.

Others nephews and nieces was working and earning good salaries in other cities after graduating other government schools.


If you graduate with an education in electrically engineering or dermatology,you'll usually get a lot better job when you leave than if you study German Polka or French Poetry or Gay Studies. Maybe and LGBTQ+ degree can get you a job in Sodom, but that city has been burned to the ground for millenia and isn't coming back soon.

 

[JWBooth]

Under this proposal people who actually provide a useful function in the economy get to bear the burden.

 

[LeftofLeft]

$10K will help those who borrowed their frat dues and beer money, or who dropped out their freshman year. If it makes you feel better, it will piss the left off even more than the right that $10K is all he is doling out. For the people in the worst shape, that won't even change their payments. It will be like a year's interest for those who pay less than interest only payments on an IDR plan. Unless he is piggy backing this onto an announcement of something bigger and newer like retroactively decapitalizing interest that put some borrowers deeply underwater (especially grad students), Biden is costing the DNC support in November.

The NAACP has already voiced that $10k is way too low and that it should be $50k; in which case, you are talking about it costing taxpayers $980B vs. $300B.

In either case, how do you tell the taxpayer that did not go to college or the the taxpayer that saved their money and paid off college or the taxpayer that took out a more manageable loan - how do you tell them all they are on the hook for these foolish people who took on unnecessary debt for higher education and can’t pay it back?

There is no reason a student should be taking out $200k in loans to attend an elite private school 3 time zones away to concentrate in a major that has little or no job prospects. A more manageable approach is when a student takes out $50k to attend state and local colleges and concentrate in a major that will yield good job prospects so they can pay back the loan.

 

[surada]

Biden to Announce That Taxpayers Will Foot the Bill for a Chunk of Student Loans

redstate.com

So if you’re making 125 grand a year, those making half that will pay for your college loans. Fucking awesome.

Most successful countries invest in education. $125,000 is a good living, but it's just middle class.

 

[surada]

The NAACP has already voiced that $10k is way too low and that it should be $50k; in which case, you are talking about it costing taxpayers $980B vs. $300B.

In either case, how do you tell the taxpayer that did not go to college or the the taxpayer that saved their money and paid off college or the taxpayer that took out a more manageable loan - how do you tell them all they are on the hook for these foolish people who took on unnecessary debt for higher education and can’t pay it back?

There is no reason a student should be taking out $200k in loans to attend an elite private school 3 time zones away to concentrate in a major that has little or no job prospects. A more manageable approach is when a student takes out $50k to attend state and local colleges and concentrate in a major that will yield good job prospects so they can pay back the loan.

Did you go to college? Do you have any children in college?

 

[Dekster]

The NAACP has already voiced that $10k is way too low and that it should be $50k; in which case, you are talking about it costing taxpayers $980B vs. $300B.

In either case, how do you tell the taxpayer that did not go to college or the the taxpayer that saved their money and paid off college or the taxpayer that took out a more manageable loan - how do you tell them all they are on the hook for these foolish people who took on unnecessary debt for higher education and can’t pay it back?

There is no reason a student should be taking out $200k in loans to attend an elite private school 3 time zones away to concentrate in a major that has little or no job prospects. A more manageable approach is when a student takes out $50k to attend state and local colleges and concentrate in a major that will yield good job prospects so they can pay back the loan.

I tell them suck it. It is no different than taxpayers supporting welfare queens, military industrial CEO's, and their favorite former presidents in perpetuity. If it were up to me we would just write it all off and close the department of education for good. Since it isn't up to me, I support a complete reset on how the government does higher ed. If we are not going to make it free for most, then we should do it like we do healthcare--cap the amount they are allowed to charge aid students.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Did you go to college? Do you have any children in college?

I see you are trying to play the class envy fairness game here and give the impression that I am advocating restricting college and higher education for others. Go back and read my post because that is far from what I am saying.

I did go to college. I worked while I was in college. I went to state and local college and university and majored in a field for which I could get a job and have a loan debt level that could be paid off after I graduated. I currently have one in college (state and local) and I will have another in college in two years.

Notice the trend here. I chose the more affordable and debt manageable route with state and local universities which is what I am advocating people to do when taking on school loans. Stick to state and local higher education if you can’t afford private education. If a private educational institution wants to give you additional scholarship out of their budget, that’s great.

 

[iamwhatiseem]

 

[surada]

I see you are trying to play the class envy fairness game here and give the impression that I am advocating restricting college and higher education for others. Go back and read my post because that is far from what I am saying.

I did go to college. I worked while I was in college. I went to state and local college and university and majored in a field for which I could get a job and have a loan debt level that could be paid off after I graduated. I currently have one in college (state and local) and I will have another in college in two years.

Notice the trend here. I chose the more affordable and debt manageable route with state and local universities which is what I am advocating people to do when taking on school loans. Stick to state and local higher education if you can’t afford private education. If a private educational institution wants to give you additional scholarship out of their budget, that’s great.

Then you know how much higher education costs then and now. It has nothing to do with class envy.

 

[LeftofLeft]

Then you know how much higher education costs then and now. It has nothing to do with class envy.

There is no reason a student should take on 4X the cost of a state and local education if they can’t pay it back….regardless of whether or not education costs have increased or stayed the same. Private colleges have always been much more expensive compared to state and local colleges. If you can’t handle the price tag of a private college then you should not get the loan. Same principles apply with home loans and car loans. I may want or feel entitled to a $1M home because my peers have them but I may only qualify for a $600k home loan. How responsible would it be for myself to take out the $1M loan and/or how responsible would it be for a financial institution to approve it?

 

[surada]

There is no reason a student should take on 4X the cost of a state and local education if they can’t pay it back….regardless of whether or not education costs have increased or stayed the same. Private colleges have always been much more expensive compared to state and local colleges. If you can’t handle the price tag of a private college then you should not get the loan. Same principles apply with home loans and car loans. I may want or feel entitled to a $1M home because my peers have them but I may only qualify for a $600k home loan. How responsible would it be for myself to take out the $1M loan and/or how responsible would it be for a financial institution to approve it?

I'm not up on costs so much. All my grandchildren got full scholarships at top schools. They went to Catholic schools with a full range of extracurricular activities in sports and dance... Plus, they were outstanding students. I went to excellent schools, but their education is just amazing.

 

[LeftofLeft]

I'm not up on costs so much. All my grandchildren got full scholarships at top schools. They went to Catholic schools with a full range of extracurricular activities in sports and dance... Plus, they were outstanding students. I went to excellent schools, but their education is just amazing.

Good for you and for them. I mean that sincerely. I think higher education should be made affordable and available to all students.

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

Will people be able to take out a $10,000 school loan in 2023 and not have to pay it back? 2024? The future?

No. There will only be free tuition during election years.

 

[22lcidw]

The NAACP has already voiced that $10k is way too low and that it should be $50k; in which case, you are talking about it costing taxpayers $980B vs. $300B.

In either case, how do you tell the taxpayer that did not go to college or the the taxpayer that saved their money and paid off college or the taxpayer that took out a more manageable loan - how do you tell them all they are on the hook for these foolish people who took on unnecessary debt for higher education and can’t pay it back?

There is no reason a student should be taking out $200k in loans to attend an elite private school 3 time zones away to concentrate in a major that has little or no job prospects. A more manageable approach is when a student takes out $50k to attend state and local colleges and concentrate in a major that will yield good job prospects so they can pay back the loan.

All of this with no mandates! They must be exterminated. And no one is rising up. McCarthy will do the Mayberry act.

 

[LAUGHatLEFTISTS]

I'm not up on costs so much. All my grandchildren got full scholarships at top schools. They went to Catholic schools with a full range of extracurricular activities in sports and dance... Plus, they were outstanding students. I went to excellent schools, but their education is just amazing.

Yet you keep that privilege away from inner city kids. Racist!

 

[surada]

Good for you and for them. I mean that sincerely. I think higher education should be made affordable and available to all students.

Thank you. I agree education should be affordable. The tuition numbers that I have seen are staggering.