We should listen to the “experts”

[Ray From Cleveland]

It seems your site is pretty one-sided. What would you expect from an advocacy group called Death Penalty Information Center? What is says is that authorities are wrong, they provided fudged information,, people have alibis. I don't believe any of it. I don't believe some outside forensics people, likely paid by the family of the defendant, provided more reliable information than our government investigators and crime labs.

Most of these people can't afford forensic experts, that's how they end up getting railroaded to start with.

But here you go...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/crime-law/2019/08/17/did-faulty-science-bad-testimony-bring-larry-swearingen-brink-execution/

Blood flakes were found under Trotter’s fingernails, enough to develop a full DNA profile, which was determined to be from a man — but not Swearingen. But a Texas lab technician testified at trial that the blood came from contamination in the lab, not a possible killer. Earlier this month, the Texas Department of Public Safety issued a second letter saying the technician had no evidence of contamination or knowledge of how that would have happened.

⋅ Though Trotter had been gone for 25 days, her body was not heavily decomposed. The county medical examiner testified at trial that Trotter probably had been dead for 25 days. But she later changed her mind to 14 days. Seven other forensic pathology experts have said Trotter’s death couldn’t have occurred more than two weeks before her body was found, and Swearingen had been in jail for 22 days before the discovery.

So another dude's DNA was found on her AND she was killed when he was in jail.

Citing new evidence, condemned Georgia inmate seeks mercy

Lawyers for a man set for execution next week are asking Georgia's parole board to spare his life, arguing that newly discovered evidence raises doubts about their client's guilt.

apnews.com

DNA testing done years after the trial on semen found on clothing worn by one of the women who survived does not match Gary, his lawyers wrote. That’s significant, Gary’s lawyers assert, because the woman had dramatically identified Gary as her attacker during his trial, and the prosecution relied heavily on her testimony.

Bodily fluid testing done on semen found on Thurmond’s body and on stains on Scheible’s sheets also likely exclude Gary, his lawyers argue. DNA analysis would have provided further evidence, they wrote, but it couldn’t be done because the samples were discovered to have been contaminated at the Georgia Bureau of Investigation crime lab.

A shoeprint found at one of the scenes was not disclosed to the defense until 20 years after his trial and would have cast doubt on his guilt because his size 13-and-a-half foot would not have fit in the size 10 shoe that made the print, the application says.

These aren't guys who were executed or almost executed a long time ago. These were guys executed in the LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

This is why you don't get a death penalty. Even with all the appeals, checks, cross-checks, we STILL end up putting innocent guys to death.

The first link is a paywall site, and I'm not paying to read the story.

The second is about a guy with a very long line of crime and violent crime. The courts refused to reverse the sentence based on the mound of evidence against him, and determined the anecdotal things the defense offered would have made very little difference.

THE EVIDENTIARY PATTERN
Here in chronological order is a review of the cases in which Gary either was convicted or implicated. Though he was not charged in them all, prosecutors in 1986 used evidence from other crimes to illustrate Gary’s method of operation.


Read more here: https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/news/local/article184574523.html#storylink=cpy

Bottom line is psychopaths have a pattern. They commit crimes pretty close to the same way. But because they are psychopaths doesn't mean they are stupid. The pattern of this guy was elderly women, and strangulation was his preferred method. He has a criminal history a mile long.

If you commit a crime with another person, and that other person is the one who actually kills the subject, you are both charged with murder. He could have been working with a partner in some of these cases, or it could be somebody that gave them their seaman to try and cover his guilt.

Shoe size? Mine is 12 1/2. If I were to commit a crime where I suspected my shoe print could be used as evidence, what I would do is get a smaller shoe I couldn't possibly fit in, such as a size 10. I would tear the shoe apart to where I had the soles only, fasten them to my shoe, and then it would look like there was no possible way for it to be me.

The size of the shoe is only part of it. They can also get a profile of how tall the suspect was, and how much he weighed based on the depth of the print if it was in dirt or mud. If I were to commit a crime using my method described above, the evidence would not only show the shoe was too small, but didn't fit the profile as the assailant appeared to be a shorter and heavier person.

After the crime, I would find an industrial dumpster at a factory somewhere and throw the shoes away.

 

[JoeB131]

The second is about a guy with a very long line of crime and violent crime. The courts refused to reverse the sentence based on the mound of evidence against him, and determined the anecdotal things the defense offered would have made very little difference.

Uh, dude, IT WAS ANOTHER PERSON'S DNA found in these old ladies! It's hardly anecdotal. If their position is the same guy did all of them, and they know another guy did one of them, it follows that he didn't do any of them.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The second is about a guy with a very long line of crime and violent crime. The courts refused to reverse the sentence based on the mound of evidence against him, and determined the anecdotal things the defense offered would have made very little difference.

Uh, dude, IT WAS ANOTHER PERSON'S DNA found in these old ladies! It's hardly anecdotal. If their position is the same guy did all of them, and they know another guy did one of them, it follows that he didn't do any of them.

No, because if you read my link, it states he was busted with empirical evidence with the same MO numerous times. It's almost like his signature. Not a hell of a lot of people have an old lady fetish or hangup. Like I said, he may have a partner that gave him his DNA, or perhaps somebody was working with him, and participated in the crimes. Who knows?

In any case, this is not your average hard working responsible citizen, who never so much had an outstanding parking ticket. This is a career criminal. He's a bad guy. Just the idea that he's torturing and ruining the lives of little old ladies justifies death in my opinion. Both my parents are older, and if anything happened to either of them, I would be in prison for murder when I caught the guy(s).

 

[JoeB131]

No, because if you read my link, it states he was busted with empirical evidence with the same MO numerous times. It's almost like his signature. Not a hell of a lot of people have an old lady fetish or hangup. Like I said, he may have a partner that gave him his DNA, or perhaps somebody was working with him, and participated in the crimes. Who knows?

"may have" "Perhaps" "who knows?"- Um, they have a word for that in our juris prudence, and it's called "Reasonable doubt"

In any case, this is not your average hard working responsible citizen, who never so much had an outstanding parking ticket. This is a career criminal. He's a bad guy. Just the idea that he's torturing and ruining the lives of little old ladies justifies death in my opinion. Both my parents are older, and if anything happened to either of them, I would be in prison for murder when I caught the guy(s).

What if you went to prison for killing the wrong guy?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, because if you read my link, it states he was busted with empirical evidence with the same MO numerous times. It's almost like his signature. Not a hell of a lot of people have an old lady fetish or hangup. Like I said, he may have a partner that gave him his DNA, or perhaps somebody was working with him, and participated in the crimes. Who knows?

"may have" "Perhaps" "who knows?"- Um, they have a word for that in our juris prudence, and it's called "Reasonable doubt"

In any case, this is not your average hard working responsible citizen, who never so much had an outstanding parking ticket. This is a career criminal. He's a bad guy. Just the idea that he's torturing and ruining the lives of little old ladies justifies death in my opinion. Both my parents are older, and if anything happened to either of them, I would be in prison for murder when I caught the guy(s).

What if you went to prison for killing the wrong guy?

Since you refuse to educate yourself by reading reliable reporting, I'll post his history here:

▪ On April 14, 1970, Nellie Farmer, 85, was raped and strangled in her home in the Wellington Hotel in Albany, N.Y. Her body was left covered. Police found Gary’s fingerprint at the scene. Gary claimed another man killed Farmer, and was convicted only of robbery.


The defense says a footprint found at the scene did not match Gary, who wears a size 13½. The footprint was size 8½ or 9. The prosecution wrote that “this lone footprint does nothing to diminish the enormous body of evidence showing defendant to be guilty of the crimes he committed in Columbus.”

▪ On Jan. 2, 1977, Jean Frost, 55, was raped and nearly choked to death in her home in Syracuse, N.Y. Police caught Gary with a watch from Frost’s home two days later. He again blamed another man. He was charged with possessing stolen property, resisting arrest, perjury and assault. He pleaded guilty to possessing stolen property and was sentenced to a year in the Onondaga Penitentiary.

▪ On Aug. 22, 1977, Gary escaped from the Syracuse prison and moved back to Columbus, to a home on Fisk Avenue.

▪ On Sept. 11, 1977, Gertrude Miller, 64, was beaten with a board and raped in her 2703 Hood St. home, about two blocks from Fisk Avenue. Her assailant left behind knotted stockings he took from her dresser. Miller identified Gary as her rapist during his 1986 trial.

The DNA testing conducted after Gary’s stay of execution showed Gary was not the source of semen found on Miller’s gown. The defense says this proves Miller’s identification was mistaken.

Prosecutors counter that the defense can’t prove Miller was wearing the gown when she was assaulted.

▪ On Sept. 16, 1977, Mary Willis “Fern” Jackson, 59, of 2505 17th St., was found brutally beaten, raped and strangled with a stocking and sash. Her body was left covered. Her stolen car was found on Benner Avenue near Fisk Avenue. Police matched Gary’s fingerprint to the scene.

The defense argues police lacked sufficient “points of comparison” to declare the print a match. The prosecution replies that the Jackson match was based on nine points of comparison, which were enough.

▪ On Sept. 24, 1977, Jean Dimenstein, 71, was found raped and strangled with a stocking in her home that had the address 3027 21st St. The street later was renamed for the nearby Cross Country shopping center. Dimensteins’s body was left covered with sheets and a pillow.

DNA testing during Gary’s appeal matched his profile to evidence derived from Dimenstein’s vaginal washings, adding to evidence of his guilt, the prosecution notes.

▪ On Oct. 21, 1977, Florence Scheible, 89, was found raped and strangled with a stocking in her 1941 Dimon St. home, which today has a different address. Her body was left covered. Gary’s right thumbprint was found on a door frame leading into Scheible’s bedroom.

Again the defense says the fingerprint evidence is inadequate, and the prosecution maintains it is.

▪ On Oct. 25, 1977, Martha Thurmond, 70, was found raped and strangled with a stocking in her 2614 Marion St. home. Her body was covered by a pillow, blankets and sheets. Gary’s fingerprint was found on the frame of a rear bedroom window.

Evidence from Thurmond’s rape was DNA-tested at the Georgia Bureau of Investigation crime lab, and at first found not to match Gary. But authorities later announced the sample had been tainted by a known DNA profile used to test lab equipment.

During Gary’s 1986 trial, prosecutors used evidence from the Scheible and Thurmond cases to show the strangler was a weak or non-secretor of blood-type markers in his other bodily fluids such as sweat, tears and semen. Non-secretors are only 20 percent of the population.

A prosecution expert testified that he could not exclude Gary as the strangler, based on this evidence, though testing shows Gary to be a strong Type-O secretor. The defense argues this testimony was incorrect.

The prosecution says the evidence is inconsequential: Defense attorneys thoroughly cross-examined the prosecution expert during Gary’s trial, and had the defense produced its own expert to contradict the prosecution’s, the jury merely would have had dueling testimony that likely would not have altered the outcome of Gary’s trial.

▪ On Dec. 28, 1977, Kathleen Woodruff, 74, was found raped and strangled in her 1811 Buena Vista Road home, which later was demolished during an Aflac expansion. Gary’s fingerprints were found on a rear window where the intruder entered.

Once more the defense argues the fingerprint evidence lacks sufficient comparison points, but prosecutors counter the Woodruff print has 16 points matching Gary’s right, little finger.

▪ On Feb. 11, 1978, Ruth Schwob, 74, of 1800 Carter Ave., was nearly strangled to death by an intruder she fought off, pressing a panic alarm by her bed. Police found her sitting on the edge of her bed, gasping, a stocking wrapped around her neck.

The defense argues Gary could not have left a footprint found on an air-conditioning unit the intruder stood on to climb into Schwob’s window. The print was a size 10. Gary wears a size 13½.

The prosecution counters that the defense has no photograph that documents this evidence, only a photocopy of the sole of a shoe investigators said was comparable. It notes also that a detective testified Gary told him he sometimes wore smaller shoes to fool the police.

▪ On Feb. 12, 1978, Mildred Borom, 78, 1612 Forest Ave., about two blocks from Schwob’s home, was found raped and strangled with a cord cut from window blinds. Her body was covered with a garment.

▪ On April 20, 1978, Janet Cofer, 61, of 3783 Steam Mill Road, was found raped and strangled with a stocking. A pillow covered her face.

▪ On April 20, 1978, Janet Cofer, 61, of 3783 Steam Mill Road, was found raped and strangled with a stocking. A pillow covered her face.

Investigators found a bite mark on Cofer’s left breast, and the coroner had a dentist make a mold from it, preserving the teeth marks. The mold was lost until Nov. 9, 2005, when then-Coroner James Dunnavant found it in a file drawer in his office.

The defense says the mold shows a gap in the biter’s upper teeth and a crooked lower tooth, defects Gary’s teeth never had. Prosecutors argue the mold does not show a clear imprint of the lower teeth, and any flaws in the upper teeth are inconclusive because Gary later had dental work on his upper teeth in prison.

▪ On May 3, 1984, authorities arrested Gary in Albany, Ga., and brought him to Columbus. That night, from around midnight until 3:30 a.m., he is alleged to have taken investigators on a tour of homes he broke into, blaming the stranglings on an accomplice, as he did in other cases.

His confession was not recorded, nor did police create a written statement for Gary to sign. The defense argues it is invalid, noting that in the Farmer case, in 1970, Gary gave a full statement 12 pages long and signed it.

The prosecution notes that the statement Gary signed in New York was a confession only to burglary, as he blamed Farmer’s murder on someone else. Gary similarly signed a confession to avoid being charged with rape when he was questioned in the Jan. 2, 1977, assault on Jean Frost in Syracuse.

Prosecutors note also that during that 1984 drive around Columbus after his arrest, Gary gave detectives details that police didn’t know about:

▪ On Dec. 20, 1977, the 1710 Buena Vista Road home of William Swift was burglarized while the residents were away. Swift later discovered the burglar removed bars from a kitchen window to get in, but he never told police that. Detectives said Gary in 1984 told them how he broke into the Swift’s residence.

The state notes also that Gary’s confession was thoroughly challenged during his 1986 trial, so the defense is not citing “new” evidence when it brings that up on appeal. The validity of Gary’s statement already has been argued.

The prosecution’s response concludes:

“Based on the scientific results of the DNA testing in Mrs. Dimenstein’s case and the overwhelming evidence of his guilt presented at his original trial, it is absolutely clear that Carlton Gary is indeed the Columbus ‘Stocking Strangler.’”

So what say you Joe, bad luck, racism, what? Such a coincidence that on several occasions after a robbery, another criminal broke into those same homes, that same day or evening, and raped then murdered these women. What bad luck.....huh? Maybe this rapist and murderer was following him around to all the homes he broke into?

 

[JoeB131]

Since you refuse to educate yourself by reading reliable reporting, I'll post his history here:

Why bother.

SOMEONE ELSE'S DNA was found at the scene.
He wears a size 13 1/2 shoe, and the footprints were found to be size 10.
His toothmarks didn't match.

THIS IS CALLED REASONABLE DOUBT. I know this is a concept you find hard to grasp, that you don't convict (much less execute) people if there is reasonable doubt about their guilt.

It does not mean "Well, we got this n****r on a couple of burglary beefs, so let's just clear our cold cases by hanging these crimes on him.

 

[Care4all]

You mean youre actually glad that Drumpf called the virus a dem hoax and killed an unknown number of people as a result?

No. I’m glad President Trump shut down travel from China while you asshat Trump Derangement Syndrome leftists cried “racist”. Think of the lives he saved that you leftists tried to destroy.

While the virus in New York City, came and spread there, from the European strain of the virus and not the strain present in Wuhan... stopping China flights didn't help them, stopping the EU and the Brits from coming here in January would have helped NYC.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You mean youre actually glad that Drumpf called the virus a dem hoax and killed an unknown number of people as a result?

No. I’m glad President Trump shut down travel from China while you asshat Trump Derangement Syndrome leftists cried “racist”. Think of the lives he saved that you leftists tried to destroy.

While the virus in New York City, came and spread there, from the European strain of the virus and not the strain present in Wuhan... stopping China flights didn't help them, stopping the EU and the Brits from coming here in January would have helped NYC.

It's the same thing. It's all Covid-19.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Since you refuse to educate yourself by reading reliable reporting, I'll post his history here:

Why bother.

SOMEONE ELSE'S DNA was found at the scene.
He wears a size 13 1/2 shoe, and the footprints were found to be size 10.
His toothmarks didn't match.

THIS IS CALLED REASONABLE DOUBT. I know this is a concept you find hard to grasp, that you don't convict (much less execute) people if there is reasonable doubt about their guilt.

It does not mean "Well, we got this n****r on a couple of burglary beefs, so let's just clear our cold cases by hanging these crimes on him.

Not only do you refuse to learn the truth through the links, you refuse to learn the truth when somebody saves you the time by posting the evidence on the board. It's been explained. But I understand why you didn't want to read it. Showing the truth to a leftist is like showing Dracula the cross. Plus his criminal history is so extensive, it would take you several minutes to read about all of his crimes. He's been a lifelong criminal probably since he turned the age of 18, and I'm sure has a lengthy juvenile record as well. Of course, those are sealed.

 

[Lesh]

It's the same thing. It's all Covid-19.

The virus mutates often in slight ways. And the mutation that infected NY was similar to the one in Europe.

Flights from Europe remained completely unfettered for six weeks after Trump shut down most flights from China. Unfortunately the virus was already in Europe and then spread from THERE...to HERE as the virus mutations show.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

It's the same thing. It's all Covid-19.

The virus mutates often in slight ways. And the mutation that infected NY was similar to the one in Europe.

Flights from Europe remained completely unfettered for six weeks after Trump shut down most flights from China. Unfortunately the virus was already in Europe and then spread from THERE...to HERE as the virus mutations show.

Oh please. The very first case reported here was a guy who was in China and came back to the US.

 

[JoeB131]

Not only do you refuse to learn the truth through the links, you refuse to learn the truth when somebody saves you the time by posting the evidence on the board. It's been explained. But I understand why you didn't want to read it. Showing the truth to a leftist is like showing Dracula the cross. Plus his criminal history is so extensive, it would take you several minutes to read about all of his crimes. He's been a lifelong criminal probably since he turned the age of 18, and I'm sure has a lengthy juvenile record as well. Of course, those are sealed.

Guy, you didn't show a truth. You basically said, "Well, he might have done other bad things"... your whole argument is full of inferences and maybes and could haves.

The concept of REASONABLE DOUBT is the thing here. There was reasonably doubt, and plenty of it, on the crime he was executed for.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Not only do you refuse to learn the truth through the links, you refuse to learn the truth when somebody saves you the time by posting the evidence on the board. It's been explained. But I understand why you didn't want to read it. Showing the truth to a leftist is like showing Dracula the cross. Plus his criminal history is so extensive, it would take you several minutes to read about all of his crimes. He's been a lifelong criminal probably since he turned the age of 18, and I'm sure has a lengthy juvenile record as well. Of course, those are sealed.

Guy, you didn't show a truth. You basically said, "Well, he might have done other bad things"... your whole argument is full of inferences and maybes and could haves.

The concept of REASONABLE DOUBT is the thing here. There was reasonably doubt, and plenty of it, on the crime he was executed for.

Wrong, once again:

“Based on the scientific results of the DNA testing in Mrs. Dimenstein’s case and the overwhelming evidence of his guilt presented at his original trial, it is absolutely clear that Carlton Gary is indeed the Columbus ‘Stocking Strangler.’”

This guy is a psychopath. He had the same MO with most of his crimes. He stated repeatedly he did not kill those other people, but whoever his accomplice was is responsible for the murders. Okay, if he had an accomplice, then even if he told them who this accomplice was, and once proven this other person was indeed responsible for these murders, he still would have gotten the death penalty because that's the law in my state, and I'm sure most other states as well.

If you and I plan to rob and murder somebody here, you were the one who pulled the trigger and I only robbed them, I'm just as guilty of murder as you are. In this state, it doesn't matter who actually committed the murder. We are both guilty of it and will both be charged with murder.

It's impossible to actually believe this guy was only a thief. I don't know how he pulled off the DNA thing, but like I said, just because somebody is a psychopathy doesn't mean they are not clever.

 

[JoeB131]

Wrong, once again:

“Based on the scientific results of the DNA testing in Mrs. Dimenstein’s case and the overwhelming evidence of his guilt presented at his original trial, it is absolutely clear that Carlton Gary is indeed the Columbus ‘Stocking Strangler.’”

Except he wasn't executed for Mrs. Dimenstein, who didn't die.

He was executed for the murders of Martha Thurmond, Florence Scheible, and Kathleen Woodruff .

The DNA sample in THurmond's case was hopelessly contaminated.

DNA Shows He’s Not a Killer. Georgia Still Wants to Execute Him Tomorrow.

Carlton Michael Gary was sentenced to death in 1986. He’s scheduled to die Thursday. In between came new evidence casting doubt on his conviction—and pointing to sabotage.

www.thedailybeast.com

However, the prosecutors did pull one rabbit out of their hat: a claim that the same lab that wrecked the Thurmond DNA sample did find a match between Gary and “vaginal washings” taken from another murder victim, Jean Dimenstein.

Here too, the truth is murky. Their claim was, supposedly, derived from swabs of Gary’s DNA that had been securely stored in a sealed envelope. When the defense attorneys asked to see them, the lawyers were told the envelope had mysteriously been opened, and the swabs had, unaccountably, disappeared. Could they have been used to contaminate the microscopic quantity of biological material taken from Dimenstein? In a lab where the destruction of the much bigger Thurmond semen sample took place, the defense attorneys say anything is possible.

This guy is a psychopath. He had the same MO with most of his crimes. He stated repeatedly he did not kill those other people, but whoever his accomplice was is responsible for the murders. Okay, if he had an accomplice, then even if he told them who this accomplice was, and once proven this other person was indeed responsible for these murders, he still would have gotten the death penalty because that's the law in my state, and I'm sure most other states as well.

Actually, wrong again. The only source we have are the corrupt, racist cops who questioned him without a lawyer.

So, yeah, if you ignore the illegal interrogation without a lawyer (a violation of his sixth amendment rights) and the evidence about other people's DNA in some victims, contaminated samples, fingerprints that didn't match, footprints that didn't match, and you imply that he was guilty in crimes he was never tried for, it sounds like a slam dunk case.

 

[JoeB131]

But wait, there's more.

'Stocking strangler' case: Inmate should not be executed, lawyer says

Carlton Gary, 67, is scheduled to be put to death Thursday in what would be Georgia’s first execution this year.

www.usatoday.com

Key evidence that could potentially have proven that Gary was not the stocking strangler includes slides with semen found on Thurmond’s body and Scheible’s sheets, his lawyers argue. Bodily fluid testing done on those samples likely excludes Gary as the attacker, they say, and DNA testing could have confirmed that. But that testing couldn’t be done because the samples were contaminated at a state crime lab.

DNA evidence found on clothing taken from the home of a victim who survived an attack and dramatically identified Gary at trial did not match his DNA, his lawyers wrote. Additionally, they say, bite mark and fingerprint evidence relied upon by the prosecution was problematic and a shoeprint found at one of the crime scenes doesn’t match with Gary.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

DNA evidence found on clothing taken from the home of a victim who survived an attack and dramatically identified Gary at trial did not match his DNA, his lawyers wrote. Additionally, they say, bite mark and fingerprint evidence relied upon by the prosecution was problematic and a shoeprint found at one of the crime scenes doesn’t match with Gary.

On May 3, 1984, authorities arrested Gary in Albany, Ga., and brought him to Columbus. That night, from around midnight until 3:30 a.m., he is alleged to have taken investigators on a tour of homes he broke into, blaming the stranglings on an accomplice, as he did in other cases.

The prosecution counters that the defense has no photograph that documents this evidence, only a photocopy of the sole of a shoe investigators said was comparable. It notes also that a detective testified Gary told him he sometimes wore smaller shoes to fool the police.

Police found Gary’s fingerprint at the scene. Gary claimed another man killed Farmer

The DNA testing conducted after Gary’s stay of execution showed Gary was not the source of semen found on Miller’s gown. The defense says this proves Miller’s identification was mistaken.

Prosecutors counter that the defense can’t prove Miller was wearing the gown when she was assaulted.

On Sept. 16, 1977, Mary Willis “Fern” Jackson, 59, of 2505 17th St., was found brutally beaten, raped and strangled with a stocking and sash. Her body was left covered. Her stolen car was found on Benner Avenue near Fisk Avenue. Police matched Gary’s fingerprint to the scene.

The defense argues police lacked sufficient “points of comparison” to declare the print a match. The prosecution replies that the Jackson match was based on nine points of comparison, which were enough.

n Sept. 24, 1977, Jean Dimenstein, 71, was found raped and strangled with a stocking in her home that had the address 3027 21st St. The street later was renamed for the nearby Cross Country shopping center. Dimensteins’s body was left covered with sheets and a pillow.

DNA testing during Gary’s appeal matched his profile to evidence derived from Dimenstein’s vaginal washings, adding to evidence of his guilt, the prosecution notes.

The defense says the mold shows a gap in the biter’s upper teeth and a crooked lower tooth, defects Gary’s teeth never had. Prosecutors argue the mold does not show a clear imprint of the lower teeth, and any flaws in the upper teeth are inconclusive because Gary later had dental work on his upper teeth in prison.

It's a shame this guy wasn't executed 30 years earlier. It's also a shame you have this mental block that precludes you to understand our laws, which is even if a partner did kill a person while you were in the commission of a felony, you are also guilty of murder.

Strangulations are rare for murder. It's more rare when there are a string of them doing it just about the exact same way each time, and basically in the same area. You can't be more guilty between DNA evidence, fingerprints, and his confession that he wore shoes much smaller to throw police off.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Actually, wrong again. The only source we have are the corrupt, racist cops who questioned him without a lawyer.

So, yeah, if you ignore the illegal interrogation without a lawyer (a violation of his sixth amendment rights) and the evidence about other people's DNA in some victims, contaminated samples, fingerprints that didn't match, footprints that didn't match, and you imply that he was guilty in crimes he was never tried for, it sounds like a slam dunk case.

Police are allowed to question anybody they want without a lawyer. There is no law against that. A career criminal knows their rights. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT. You don't need to be a criminal of any kind to know that right. We've all seen it on television dozens of times in our life.

His fingerprint was at the crime scene in several of those murders. He confessed to an investigator he often wore smaller shoes, which while very uncomfortable, can be done using shoes without laces or laces very, very loose.

 

[basquebromance]

 

[JoeB131]

On May 3, 1984, authorities arrested Gary in Albany, Ga., and brought him to Columbus. That night, from around midnight until 3:30 a.m., he is alleged to have taken investigators on a tour of homes he broke into, blaming the stranglings on an accomplice, as he did in other cases.

Again, this would be the supposed tour that happened without his lawyer, that no one made a recording of.

The prosecution counters that the defense has no photograph that documents this evidence, only a photocopy of the sole of a shoe investigators said was comparable. It notes also that a detective testified Gary told him he sometimes wore smaller shoes to fool the police.

Uh, guy, there's no fucking way a guy who wears 13 1/2 shoes is going to fit his feet in a size 9 shoe. IT JUST AINT POSSIBLE.

The DNA testing conducted after Gary’s stay of execution showed Gary was not the source of semen found on Miller’s gown. The defense says this proves Miller’s identification was mistaken.

Prosecutors counter that the defense can’t prove Miller was wearing the gown when she was assaulted.

How many cum stained gowns does this old lady have? If there was someone else's semen on her gown, they should have been able to identify who it was. She claimed she was wearing THAT gown when a guy she identified as Gary raped her. Except we know that it wasn't him. THIS IS CALLED REASONABLE DOUBT.

n Sept. 24, 1977, Jean Dimenstein, 71, was found raped and strangled with a stocking in her home that had the address 3027 21st St. The street later was renamed for the nearby Cross Country shopping center. Dimensteins’s body was left covered with sheets and a pillow.

DNA testing during Gary’s appeal matched his profile to evidence derived from Dimenstein’s vaginal washings, adding to evidence of his guilt, the prosecution notes.

He was never charged with Dimenstein's murder. If they had a good case there, they would have added it. They didn't.

Police are allowed to question anybody they want without a lawyer. There is no law against that. A career criminal knows their rights. YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO REMAIN SILENT. You don't need to be a criminal of any kind to know that right. We've all seen it on television dozens of times in our life.

And that shit needs to stop.

Strangulations are rare for murder. It's more rare when there are a string of them doing it just about the exact same way each time, and basically in the same area. You can't be more guilty between DNA evidence, fingerprints, and his confession that he wore shoes much smaller to throw police off.

Except-
Confessions no one recorded without a lawyer present.
DNA doesn't match in the cases they presented.
Fingerprint evidence isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Fingerprinting to solve crimes: not as robust as you think

Fingerprinting is a valuable police tool for tracking down suspects, but it’s not perfect. However, we can reduce the risk of any mistaken identity if we work within the limits of fingerprinting.

theconversation.com

But in a recent report, the American Association for the Advancement of Science has questioned the scientific validity of fingerprint analysis.

The report is a reminder that although fingerprinting is an essential tool for investigating crime, it’s not infallible. We need to minimise the inappropriate application of the “science” of fingerprinting, and reduce repeats of miscarriages of justice linked to fingerprint analysis that have already occurred.

Every thing you come up with that proves his guilt, there are just as many questions- the fact cops didn't let his lawyer be in on the questioning, the fact no one recorded these confessions, the fact that the DNA didn't match, that the footprints were too small, etc.

the Standard here should be BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. There are a lot of reasonable doubts here. Good lawyers would have had no problem getting this guy off.

The problem is- once again- when you have a system where poor people get public defenders who are often incompetent, overwealmed or just plain lazy, you are going to get miscarriages of justice.

THIS IS WHY WE SHOULDN'T HAVE A DEATH PENALTY.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Again, this would be the supposed tour that happened without his lawyer, that no one made a recording of.

So the cops just made it all up? There was no tour? You are a lib, therefore between the good guys and the criminal, you always stick up for your own kind.

Uh, guy, there's no fucking way a guy who wears 13 1/2 shoes is going to fit his feet in a size 9 shoe. IT JUST AINT POSSIBLE.

Sure it's possible. It may not be very comfortable, but possible. Of course you're not going to wear them for hours, just enough to enter the home. If it does not fit, you must acquit?

How many cum stained gowns does this old lady have? If there was someone else's semen on her gown, they should have been able to identify who it was. She claimed she was wearing THAT gown when a guy she identified as Gary raped her. Except we know that it wasn't him. THIS IS CALLED REASONABLE DOUBT.

We will never know because the story is not on the internet. It's too old apparently. Plus this happened many years ago, and DNA loses it's value as the years progress. You are trying to tell me this serial rapist/ murderer was identified by a woman, and it's just dumb luck she happened to pick this guy? I mean.....come on now.

He was never charged with Dimenstein's murder. If they had a good case there, they would have added it. They didn't.

So somebody else murdered her, and he just happened to be in the neighborhood? All this really proves is the mound of evidence that prosecution needs for a conviction. He raped her, but didn't kill her? You really believe that?

Gary identified an accomplice, but they could not match any evidence to the guy he named.

And that shit needs to stop.

Why is that? You have the option to answer their questions or not. This guy is a psycho. It seems he was somewhat proud of his crimes. He didn't care.

Except-
Confessions no one recorded without a lawyer present.
DNA doesn't match in the cases they presented.
Fingerprint evidence isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Wrong, as I posted, there was at least one of those three elements in each case.

But in a recent report, the American Association for the Advancement of Science has questioned the scientific validity of fingerprint analysis.

The report is a reminder that although fingerprinting is an essential tool for investigating crime, it’s not infallible. We need to minimise the inappropriate application of the “science” of fingerprinting, and reduce repeats of miscarriages of justice linked to fingerprint analysis that have already occurred.

Every thing you come up with that proves his guilt, there are just as many questions- the fact cops didn't let his lawyer be in on the questioning, the fact no one recorded these confessions, the fact that the DNA didn't match, that the footprints were too small, etc.

the Standard here should be BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT. There are a lot of reasonable doubts here. Good lawyers would have had no problem getting this guy off.

The problem is- once again- when you have a system where poor people get public defenders who are often incompetent, overwealmed or just plain lazy, you are going to get miscarriages of justice.

THIS IS WHY WE SHOULDN'T HAVE A DEATH PENALTY.

The police never denied this guy access to an attorney, nor forbid an attorney to be present during questioning. Yes, it's more valuable to the police when one isn't being coached on how to make the job of authorities much harder, but that's how they get the truth instead of bogus answers by the accused.

Yes, the DNA did match in the murder-rape of the one of many murders he committed. Your Fingerprint article only made claims that fingerprints can (in very rare cases) not be 100% foolproof. However nowhere does it state that the many different ways they are examined can lead to false identity. In only one kind of test, did that show to be true (1 in 30 people).

However the general consensus is that for two people to have the exact same fingerprint in all aspects of examination is about 1 in 64 million people. So I seriously doubt there were two different people with the same fingerprints involved in the same crime.