We should listen to the “experts”

[Dragonlady]

Actually, it would probably violate several amendments... Being in this country illegally is ONLY a misdemeanor.

It is until we change the classification, and there is nothing in the Constitution that says we can't. That's what Kate's law would have done.

Right... Only cops who shoot black kids deserve to have improbable stories believed. Our system works on reasonable doubt. No one saw the guy break into the car, and the gun WAS in a cloth.

No, but he should have at least been charged with receiving stolen property. He should have been charged of handling a firearm under disability. Instead, they just turned him loose to come back and kill another American. The guy had a rap sheet as long as your arm, but you believe that ridiculous story his lawyer made up.

Funny how you suddenly believe a government agency when it supports the bleach drinkers. Okay, let's get real, we see those breifings where Brix and Fauci are trying their level best to do their jobs, and Trump is ranting crazy shit about how his ratings are better than the Bachelor or drinking bleach...

You haven't watched one of those briefings. You may see excerpts out of context that CNN wants you to see, but you never turned on Fox News, and watched a half-hour of any of the daily briefings he's done. You can't bullshit me.

And you would be lying. CNN and MSNBC are running these briefings in all of their horrible glory because they want the nation to see a nasty, pathetic, angry, and vindicative man angrily attacking reporters for asking questions about things he's said and done, while displaying no concern for the tens of thousands of grieving families, or the clearly traumatized health care workers marching in the streets for PPE's.


The broader impact for the USA, is that the President's dog and pony show briefings are being broadcast to the entire world. All across the world, people cannot believe you allow this mentally, morally and utterly incompetent man destroy your nation, and allow tens of thousands of Americans die in the most horrible way. A leading political writer in Ireland recently published an opinion piece in an Irish paper saying that Europeans are expressing "pity" for the USA. I could not help but agree. I weep for my American family and friends, several of whom have lost loved ones.

My province which shut down weeks before the USA, now has fewer active cases than closed cases, and infections continue to drop. We have testing, we've flattened the curve, and we're getting ready to reopen. The Premier celebrated this good news by extending school closures until June1st. Construction is re-opening next week - provided employers provide face shields and protective masks and gloves for workers, and observe social distancing. No other sector is set to re-open for now.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Actually, it would probably violate several amendments... Being in this country illegally is ONLY a misdemeanor.

It is until we change the classification, and there is nothing in the Constitution that says we can't. That's what Kate's law would have done.

Right... Only cops who shoot black kids deserve to have improbable stories believed. Our system works on reasonable doubt. No one saw the guy break into the car, and the gun WAS in a cloth.

No, but he should have at least been charged with receiving stolen property. He should have been charged of handling a firearm under disability. Instead, they just turned him loose to come back and kill another American. The guy had a rap sheet as long as your arm, but you believe that ridiculous story his lawyer made up.

Funny how you suddenly believe a government agency when it supports the bleach drinkers. Okay, let's get real, we see those breifings where Brix and Fauci are trying their level best to do their jobs, and Trump is ranting crazy shit about how his ratings are better than the Bachelor or drinking bleach...

You haven't watched one of those briefings. You may see excerpts out of context that CNN wants you to see, but you never turned on Fox News, and watched a half-hour of any of the daily briefings he's done. You can't bullshit me.

And you would be lying. CNN and MSNBC are running these briefings in all of their horrible glory because they want the nation to see a nasty, pathetic, angry, and vindicative man angrily attacking reporters for asking questions about things he's said and done, while displaying no concern for the tens of thousands of grieving families, or the clearly traumatized health care workers marching in the streets for PPE's.


The broader impact for the USA, is that the President's dog and pony show briefings are being broadcast to the entire world. All across the world, people cannot believe you allow this mentally, morally and utterly incompetent man destroy your nation, and allow tens of thousands of Americans die in the most horrible way. A leading political writer in Ireland recently published an opinion piece in an Irish paper saying that Europeans are expressing "pity" for the USA. I could not help but agree. I weep for my American family and friends, several of whom have lost loved ones.

My province which shut down weeks before the USA, now has fewer active cases than closed cases, and infections continue to drop. We have testing, we've flattened the curve, and we're getting ready to reopen. The Premier celebrated this good news by extending school closures until June1st. Construction is re-opening next week - provided employers provide face shields and protective masks and gloves for workers, and observe social distancing. No other sector is set to re-open for now.

We are partially reopening tomorrow. We also flattened the curve, so I don't know what you are bragging about. Yeah, you have test kits. The population of your country is also less than our state of California. But since you bring it up, why do all people on the left claim they know what the rest of the world thinks of the US? Did you interview all 8 billion of them or something?

 

[Dragonlady]

There are many, many reasons for DiBlasio not to shut down New York too early. Neither of which include him thinking the virus is a hoax, or wanting New Yorkers to die.

I guess that conservatives with their limited intellect, can't fathom the idea of a multiple choice with more than two options. When I was working with disabled children, I was told to give them three choices, to make them think they were in control, but that I was really the one in controll since I stipulated the options.

His only point is NOBODY knew how this could get. It was like 911. It was something nobody could fathom. It's not Trump's fault, it's not Cuomo's fault, it's not DeBlaahhhzio's fault, it's not Newsom's fault. The only people responsible are the Chinese.

Nobody took it seriously until it became a problem here, and that includes all the leading Democrats. You on the left are trying to make this out as if Trump was too stupid to see the problem ahead of time, even though every Democrat did the same as the President.

If it's "nobody's fault" but the Chinese, how is it that everyone other first world country in the world did a better job at controlling the virus, and a better job at curing the virus than the USA. The current rate of death to closed cases in the USA is currently 29%, which is down from a high of 37% a week ago. But this is still a higher rate of death than either Spain or Italy, the difference being that the USA still has 880,000 active cases, versus 210,000 closed cases, while both Spain and Italy both have more closed cases than active.

The rate of death is still rising in the USA, but the US has a long long way to go to reach and the number of active cases continues to rise. And yet of all of the countries in the world, the USA is the only country in the world where there are pubic demonstrations to re-open.

It is not the job of the Democrats to lead the nation's fight in a "National Emergency". Donald Trump declared a National Emergency on March 15th, which means that the Trump and Trump alone was supposed to be leading the national response to the pandemic. Not only did Trump immediately hand the job off to Mike Pence, he then proceeded to spend hours in the daily briefings touting unproven malaria drugs which ended up KILLING more people than it cured, and proved to be of limited benefit to anyone. Then he suggested "getting disinfectants inside people", and other idiot ideas, which his cult like followers immediately seize upon and promote.

Trump keeps blaming everyone but Trump is the guy who made the decision to call 40,000 Americans home from China, but didn't test them when they got here. Trump is the guy who decided not to use the WHO tests which lead to the mess with testing in the USA that endures all these months later. Trump is the guy who now says states are on their own because he doesn't have a fucking clue how to fix this, and he wants to blame someone else, not him.

After all, if not for the Constitution, he COULD have ordered the states to do what he wanted to fix it. And then he could have done a better job.

What's with this Trump, Trump, Trump thing? The US had experts and bureaucracies that led the charge. Trump is not a doctor, an infectious disease expert. He leaves it to them to call the shots. The WHO test kits? It was the FDA that only permitted one test kit to be used, and that was the CDC test kits, which resulted in complete failure. But you know how these bureaucracies look out for each other.

My only point with Democrats is they didn't know how serious it would be either. I never said they led the charge for the country, but they did lead the charge for their cities and states. The lefts assertion to use this tragedy to advance their political agenda is Trump should have known more than every Democrat leader in our country.

New York City auctioned off extra ventilators due to cost of maintenance: report

New York City auctioned off hundreds of city-owned ventilators at least five years ago under Democratic Mayor Bill de Blasio’s administration, according to an investigation by ProPublica. The …

thehill.com

The United States is currently considering any death related to Covid-19 a Covid death. They are not doing that in other countries. If you have a heart attack, die on the way to the hospital, and your blood work comes back with Covid in it, they consider it a Covid death.

The Biden campaign referred us to a Politico article that said the WHO shipped coronavirus tests to nearly 60 countries at the end of February, but the U.S. was not among them. That is technically correct, but it suggests that the United States would have been on the list under any circumstances.

The countries WHO helped are ones that lack the virology lab horsepower that exists across the United States. The outreach work by the Pan American Health Organization is a case in point.

The group is WHO’s arm in the Americas. It conducted trainings and sent materials to conduct tests to 29 nations. The list included Paraguay, Bolivia, Argentina, Chile, Belize, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua and many others.

The group said it focused most of its efforts on “countries with the weakest health systems.”

“No discussions occurred between WHO and CDC about WHO providing COVID-19 tests to the United States,” said WHO spokesperson Margaret Harris. “This is consistent with experience since the United States does not ordinarily rely on WHO for reagents or diagnostic tests because of sufficient domestic capacity.”

Biden Falsely Blames Trump Administration For Rejecting WHO Coronavirus Test Kits (That Were Never Offered) - KFF Health News

Biden’s statement leaves out context about how countries decided on which test they’d use to identify the presence of the coronavirus.

khn.org

Now quit listening to liars and start watching Fox News. You will be more informed that way.

First off Ray, I watch and read the WORLD media, not American media. FOX News are the ones who are lying to you Ray, and they're parrotting a Trump friendly spin that has no basis in reality, but let's focus just on Trump's bad decisions around testing:

1. The decision not to use the WHO test is based on money. Trump could have had the WHO tests manufactured in the USA and distributed them to hospitals and ports of entry throughout the country, but there was more money to be made by US medical suppliers if the USA owns the exclusive rights to the test, so rather than buying into the testing system used in the rest of the world, Trump went with what could make more money for Big Pharma.

2. Trump fired all of the top trained people at the CDC and installed Dr. Redfield as Director - an appointment which was questioned at the time because Dr. Redfield lacked both the experience, and a good record in public health. The people Trump fired had experience with the Ebola Outbreak and with H1N1, but they were "disloyal". Dr. Redfield is the guy at the CDC who fucked up the testing roll out. Dr. Faucci heads up the search for vaccines and cures as the head of Infectious Disease control, but has nothing to do with testing. Dr. Birx was hired by Mike Pence AFTER he was appointed as head of the Corona Virus task force.

3. Trump made the decision to open up testing to the various drug companies and let everyone develop their own tests, and market them to hospitals and states, instead of requiring CDC approval prior to sale. The labs would police themselves on the effectiveness of the tests. The ultimate "free market approach".

This has lead to an inconsistent patchwork testing mess with every laboratory needing to train states on individual systems. Many tests require special equipment to process, which means a capital investment by the states, something they're reluctant to do without knowing in advance whether the tests they're being sold actually work as advertised. The testing mess has only gottent worse under this free market free for all.

Yesterday the State Governors demanded that the CDC re-assert its right to approve all testing, with one testing system nationwide. The much touted Abbott Laboratories "15-minute test", is only 80% accurate. Every lab has a different system, and the states have no idea which tests work best or what their accuracy rate is.

4. Trump has washed his hands of testing and says it's now up to the states. Meanwhile, in Canada, our labs are busy turning out WHO tests, and our province is preparing to reopen. We have never been without tests, we did not close our borders to people coming from China, we just made them test when they got here and quarantined them for two weeks even if they tested negative.

 

[Dragonlady]

Actually, it would probably violate several amendments... Being in this country illegally is ONLY a misdemeanor.

It is until we change the classification, and there is nothing in the Constitution that says we can't. That's what Kate's law would have done.

Right... Only cops who shoot black kids deserve to have improbable stories believed. Our system works on reasonable doubt. No one saw the guy break into the car, and the gun WAS in a cloth.

No, but he should have at least been charged with receiving stolen property. He should have been charged of handling a firearm under disability. Instead, they just turned him loose to come back and kill another American. The guy had a rap sheet as long as your arm, but you believe that ridiculous story his lawyer made up.

Funny how you suddenly believe a government agency when it supports the bleach drinkers. Okay, let's get real, we see those breifings where Brix and Fauci are trying their level best to do their jobs, and Trump is ranting crazy shit about how his ratings are better than the Bachelor or drinking bleach...

You haven't watched one of those briefings. You may see excerpts out of context that CNN wants you to see, but you never turned on Fox News, and watched a half-hour of any of the daily briefings he's done. You can't bullshit me.

And you would be lying. CNN and MSNBC are running these briefings in all of their horrible glory because they want the nation to see a nasty, pathetic, angry, and vindicative man angrily attacking reporters for asking questions about things he's said and done, while displaying no concern for the tens of thousands of grieving families, or the clearly traumatized health care workers marching in the streets for PPE's.


The broader impact for the USA, is that the President's dog and pony show briefings are being broadcast to the entire world. All across the world, people cannot believe you allow this mentally, morally and utterly incompetent man destroy your nation, and allow tens of thousands of Americans die in the most horrible way. A leading political writer in Ireland recently published an opinion piece in an Irish paper saying that Europeans are expressing "pity" for the USA. I could not help but agree. I weep for my American family and friends, several of whom have lost loved ones.

My province which shut down weeks before the USA, now has fewer active cases than closed cases, and infections continue to drop. We have testing, we've flattened the curve, and we're getting ready to reopen. The Premier celebrated this good news by extending school closures until June1st. Construction is re-opening next week - provided employers provide face shields and protective masks and gloves for workers, and observe social distancing. No other sector is set to re-open for now.

We are partially reopening tomorrow. We also flattened the curve, so I don't know what you are bragging about. Yeah, you have test kits. The population of your country is also less than our state of California. But since you bring it up, why do all people on the left claim they know what the rest of the world thinks of the US? Did you interview all 8 billion of them or something?

You haven't "flattened the curve", it's still going up, as is the number of people dying. It's not just Canada. It's every other first world nation in the world except Italy, Spain, the UK. You have 1/3 of all of the cases in the world, and more than 20% of the deaths, even though you're only 3% of the world's population. Even worse, you have 44% of the active cases in the world.

Stop watching the feel good FOX News broadcasts. American doctors are saying that when FOX viewers get to hospital, they have no clue as to the reality of this disease, because what FOX is telling their viewers is so far from the truth, older patients are traumatized and frightened when they see what's really going on.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There are many, many reasons for DiBlasio not to shut down New York too early. Neither of which include him thinking the virus is a hoax, or wanting New Yorkers to die.

I guess that conservatives with their limited intellect, can't fathom the idea of a multiple choice with more than two options. When I was working with disabled children, I was told to give them three choices, to make them think they were in control, but that I was really the one in controll since I stipulated the options.

His only point is NOBODY knew how this could get. It was like 911. It was something nobody could fathom. It's not Trump's fault, it's not Cuomo's fault, it's not DeBlaahhhzio's fault, it's not Newsom's fault. The only people responsible are the Chinese.

Nobody took it seriously until it became a problem here, and that includes all the leading Democrats. You on the left are trying to make this out as if Trump was too stupid to see the problem ahead of time, even though every Democrat did the same as the President.

If it's "nobody's fault" but the Chinese, how is it that everyone other first world country in the world did a better job at controlling the virus, and a better job at curing the virus than the USA. The current rate of death to closed cases in the USA is currently 29%, which is down from a high of 37% a week ago. But this is still a higher rate of death than either Spain or Italy, the difference being that the USA still has 880,000 active cases, versus 210,000 closed cases, while both Spain and Italy both have more closed cases than active.

The rate of death is still rising in the USA, but the US has a long long way to go to reach and the number of active cases continues to rise. And yet of all of the countries in the world, the USA is the only country in the world where there are pubic demonstrations to re-open.

It is not the job of the Democrats to lead the nation's fight in a "National Emergency". Donald Trump declared a National Emergency on March 15th, which means that the Trump and Trump alone was supposed to be leading the national response to the pandemic. Not only did Trump immediately hand the job off to Mike Pence, he then proceeded to spend hours in the daily briefings touting unproven malaria drugs which ended up KILLING more people than it cured, and proved to be of limited benefit to anyone. Then he suggested "getting disinfectants inside people", and other idiot ideas, which his cult like followers immediately seize upon and promote.

Trump keeps blaming everyone but Trump is the guy who made the decision to call 40,000 Americans home from China, but didn't test them when they got here. Trump is the guy who decided not to use the WHO tests which lead to the mess with testing in the USA that endures all these months later. Trump is the guy who now says states are on their own because he doesn't have a fucking clue how to fix this, and he wants to blame someone else, not him.

After all, if not for the Constitution, he COULD have ordered the states to do what he wanted to fix it. And then he could have done a better job.

What's with this Trump, Trump, Trump thing? The US had experts and bureaucracies that led the charge. Trump is not a doctor, an infectious disease expert. He leaves it to them to call the shots. The WHO test kits? It was the FDA that only permitted one test kit to be used, and that was the CDC test kits, which resulted in complete failure. But you know how these bureaucracies look out for each other.

My only point with Democrats is they didn't know how serious it would be either. I never said they led the charge for the country, but they did lead the charge for their cities and states. The lefts assertion to use this tragedy to advance their political agenda is Trump should have known more than every Democrat leader in our country.

New York City auctioned off extra ventilators due to cost of maintenance: report

New York City auctioned off hundreds of city-owned ventilators at least five years ago under Democratic Mayor Bill de Blasio’s administration, according to an investigation by ProPublica. The …

thehill.com

The United States is currently considering any death related to Covid-19 a Covid death. They are not doing that in other countries. If you have a heart attack, die on the way to the hospital, and your blood work comes back with Covid in it, they consider it a Covid death.

The Biden campaign referred us to a Politico article that said the WHO shipped coronavirus tests to nearly 60 countries at the end of February, but the U.S. was not among them. That is technically correct, but it suggests that the United States would have been on the list under any circumstances.

The countries WHO helped are ones that lack the virology lab horsepower that exists across the United States. The outreach work by the Pan American Health Organization is a case in point.

The group is WHO’s arm in the Americas. It conducted trainings and sent materials to conduct tests to 29 nations. The list included Paraguay, Bolivia, Argentina, Chile, Belize, Costa Rica, El Salvador, Honduras, Nicaragua and many others.

The group said it focused most of its efforts on “countries with the weakest health systems.”

“No discussions occurred between WHO and CDC about WHO providing COVID-19 tests to the United States,” said WHO spokesperson Margaret Harris. “This is consistent with experience since the United States does not ordinarily rely on WHO for reagents or diagnostic tests because of sufficient domestic capacity.”

Biden Falsely Blames Trump Administration For Rejecting WHO Coronavirus Test Kits (That Were Never Offered) - KFF Health News

Biden’s statement leaves out context about how countries decided on which test they’d use to identify the presence of the coronavirus.

khn.org

Now quit listening to liars and start watching Fox News. You will be more informed that way.

First off Ray, I watch and read the WORLD media, not American media. FOX News are the ones who are lying to you Ray, and they're parrotting a Trump friendly spin that has no basis in reality, but let's focus just on Trump's bad decisions around testing:

1. The decision not to use the WHO test is based on money. Trump could have had the WHO tests manufactured in the USA and distributed them to hospitals and ports of entry throughout the country, but there was more money to be made by US medical suppliers if the USA owns the exclusive rights to the test, so rather than buying into the testing system used in the rest of the world, Trump went with what could make more money for Big Pharma.

2. Trump fired all of the top trained people at the CDC and installed Dr. Redfield as Director - an appointment which was questioned at the time because Dr. Redfield lacked both the experience, and a good record in public health. The people Trump fired had experience with the Ebola Outbreak and with H1N1, but they were "disloyal". Dr. Redfield is the guy at the CDC who fucked up the testing roll out. Dr. Faucci heads up the search for vaccines and cures as the head of Infectious Disease control, but has nothing to do with testing. Dr. Birx was hired by Mike Pence AFTER he was appointed as head of the Corona Virus task force.

3. Trump made the decision to open up testing to the various drug companies and let everyone develop their own tests, and market them to hospitals and states, instead of requiring CDC approval prior to sale. The labs would police themselves on the effectiveness of the tests. The ultimate "free market approach".

This has lead to an inconsistent patchwork testing mess with every laboratory needing to train states on individual systems. Many tests require special equipment to process, which means a capital investment by the states, something they're reluctant to do without knowing in advance whether the tests they're being sold actually work as advertised. The testing mess has only gottent worse under this free market free for all.

Yesterday the State Governors demanded that the CDC re-assert its right to approve all testing, with one testing system nationwide. The much touted Abbott Laboratories "15-minute test", is only 80% accurate. Every lab has a different system, and the states have no idea which tests work best or what their accuracy rate is.

4. Trump has washed his hands of testing and says it's now up to the states. Meanwhile, in Canada, our labs are busy turning out WHO tests, and our province is preparing to reopen. We have never been without tests, we did not close our borders to people coming from China, we just made them test when they got here and quarantined them for two weeks even if they tested negative.

Like I said, watch Fox News if you don't want to be brainwashed into fake news. First off, it's our FDA that approves all drugs and testing, not the CDC. Even my factcheck link points out that the WHO never offered the US tests of any kind, and gave a direct quote from the spokesman of the WHO.

The only test kits the FDA approved were the ones created by the CDC--no others. After they were proven defective (as so many other things government), that's when Trump went into action to have private companies come to the governments aid. It had nothing to do with money or capitalism. It had to do with defective government tests.

It's the FDA that has to approve of any testing inside or outside of government. That didn't happen until March 20th.

FDA approves new test that could detect coronavirus in about 45 minutes

The US Food and Drug Administration announced it has approved the use of the first rapid diagnostic test that could detect coronavirus in approximately 45 minutes.

fox8.com

The President never refused any test kits offered from anybody. It had nothing to do with keeping manufacturing in the US.

SEOUL (Reuters) – Three Korean coronavirus test-kit makers have won preliminary approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), paving the way for kits to be exported to the United States to help it battle the largest outbreak of the virus.

South Korea’s foreign ministry said that winning the preliminary approval under emergency use authorization will allow the products to be sold in the United States.

South Korean coronavirus test kit makers win U.S. FDA pre-approval - Physician's Weekly

By Cynthia Kim SEOUL (Reuters) - Three Korean coronavirus test-kit makers have won preliminary approval from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), paving the way for kits to be exported to the United States to help it battle the largest outbreak of the virus. South Korea's foreign...

www.physiciansweekly.com

When John Bolton was working for the Trump administration, he let go of one person on this so-called Pandemic team. However the rest of the organization carried on. Him being there wouldn't have made any difference in the world.

Dems Misconstrue Trump Budget Remarks - FactCheck.org

After President Trump said, "I don't know anything about" the disbanding of a White House pandemic response office, the Democrats claimed that he “lied” and pointed to Trump's earlier remarks about "some of the people we cut" as evidence. But those remarks were in response to a question about...

www.factcheck.org

 

[JoeB131]

It is until we change the classification, and there is nothing in the Constitution that says we can't. That's what Kate's law would have done.

Without amending the constitution to overturn the fifth, sixth, eighth and fourteeth amendments, it wouldn't survive a court challenge. More to the point, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH ROOM IN THE PRISONS NOW TO LOCK PEOPLE UP. How many murderers and rapists do you want to put back on the street to lock up a repeat immigration offender?

No, but he should have at least been charged with receiving stolen property. He should have been charged of handling a firearm under disability. Instead, they just turned him loose to come back and kill another American. The guy had a rap sheet as long as your arm, but you believe that ridiculous story his lawyer made up.

This is where you are a little confused. First, they didn't turn José Inez García Zárate loose. He was convicted on a weapons possession charge and will be deported again. However, even though the gun possession charge was overturned in court, the Feds currently have him, and will try to try him again and will fail miserably.

Second all of his previous offenses were either entering the country illegally or drug possession. There were no violent crimes in his jacket. He DID spend five years in prison between 1998 and 2003. That didn't deter him from entering the country again.

You haven't watched one of those briefings. You may see excerpts out of context that CNN wants you to see, but you never turned on Fox News, and watched a half-hour of any of the daily briefings he's done. You can't bullshit me.

If anything, the media makes Trump look better, because they edit it down to the 30 seconds of him making cogent points. The fact that after the whole Lysol debacle, they've limited the amount of time he spends talking tells me that they know this is wearing thin on people.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Without amending the constitution to overturn the fifth, sixth, eighth and fourteeth amendments, it wouldn't survive a court challenge. More to the point, WE DON'T HAVE ENOUGH ROOM IN THE PRISONS NOW TO LOCK PEOPLE UP. How many murderers and rapists do you want to put back on the street to lock up a repeat immigration offender?

You leftists talk out of both sides your mouth. In one debate, you make the claim our government is manufacturing crimes to fill private prisons, and in a different debate, you make claim that our prisons are full and we have no room for anymore. You can't have it both ways.

Name me one sentence in any of those amendments that prohibits regulators from creating crime classifications. They've been doing it since our founding. The minimum prison sentence was designed to be a deterrent from returning back to the states. If they came back and committed a crime, they get sentenced for whatever crime they committed, plus an additional five years on top of that for being here in the first place.

If it were up to me, just being here illegally would be a minimum of five years whether you were a deported felon or not. You can't stop illegal activity with no penalty to pay.

This is where you are a little confused. First, they didn't turn José Inez García Zárate loose. He was convicted on a weapons possession charge and will be deported again. However, even though the gun possession charge was overturned in court, the Feds currently have him, and will try to try him again and will fail miserably.

Second all of his previous offenses were either entering the country illegally or drug possession. There were no violent crimes in his jacket. He DID spend five years in prison between 1998 and 2003. That didn't deter him from entering the country again.

They are holding him on federal charges and his defense is trying to make claim he's too mentally incompetent to stand trial. Nevertheless if an illegal kills any American in our country no matter what reason, they should be put to death.

 

[JoeB131]

You leftists talk out of both sides your mouth. In one debate, you make the claim our government is manufacturing crimes to fill private prisons, and in a different debate, you make claim that our prisons are full and we have no room for anymore. You can't have it both ways.

Actually, you certainly can when they are BOTH part of the same problem.

Prison should ONLY be there for people who are truly dangerous. But we've made it a profit center for big corporations, which is why we lock up 2 million people when most industrialized democracies lock up less than 100,000. Even Communist China locks up less people than we do, with five times the population.

Name me one sentence in any of those amendments that prohibits regulators from creating crime classifications. They've been doing it since our founding. The minimum prison sentence was designed to be a deterrent from returning back to the states. If they came back and committed a crime, they get sentenced for whatever crime they committed, plus an additional five years on top of that for being here in the first place.

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Mike Drop.

If it were up to me, just being here illegally would be a minimum of five years whether you were a deported felon or not. You can't stop illegal activity with no penalty to pay.

Yes, Ray, we've already established you are an angry racist.

Here's the thing. It costs $40,000 a year to lock up a prison for one year. So you are asking the taxpayers to spend $200,000 to punish someone for wanting to do a thankless job that someone else is right behind him ready to do? Given the poverty these people come from, you are really going to threaten them with three square meals and a roof over their heads? Maybe you can throw in a comfy pillow. (Yes, I am openly mocking you at this point)

If you really wanted to solve the problem, take the rich white people who hire them and put THEM in prison. They actually have something to lose.

They are holding him on federal charges and his defense is trying to make claim he's too mentally incompetent to stand trial. Nevertheless if an illegal kills any American in our country no matter what reason, they should be put to death.

Yes, you know it costs millions of dollars to execute people, it's why we only set off 20 of those Inbred Party Favors a year now.

Tell me again how your side is fiscally responsible. That shit never gets old.

 

[Meister]

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Actually, you certainly can when they are BOTH part of the same problem.

Prison should ONLY be there for people who are truly dangerous. But we've made it a profit center for big corporations, which is why we lock up 2 million people when most industrialized democracies lock up less than 100,000. Even Communist China locks up less people than we do, with five times the population.

Amendment VIII
Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.

Mike Drop.

There is nothing cruel and unusual about making a return to this country a felony after deportation. Failed again.

Yes, Ray, we've already established you are an angry racist.

Here's the thing. It costs $40,000 a year to lock up a prison for one year. So you are asking the taxpayers to spend $200,000 to punish someone for wanting to do a thankless job that someone else is right behind him ready to do? Given the poverty these people come from, you are really going to threaten them with three square meals and a roof over their heads? Maybe you can throw in a comfy pillow. (Yes, I am openly mocking you at this point)

If you really wanted to solve the problem, take the rich white people who hire them and put THEM in prison. They actually have something to lose.

Typical leftist. Throw American job providers in prison and not the criminals who invaded our country. Brilliant. This is the Taliban mentality. Throw the raped woman in jail for being raped, and allow the rapist to wonder freely. After all, it was her fault for being attractive enough to rape her.

Yes, you know it costs millions of dollars to execute people, it's why we only set off 20 of those Inbred Party Favors a year now.

Tell me again how your side is fiscally responsible. That shit never gets old.

It costs millions of dollars because trial lawyers donate big bucks to the Democrat party at election time. They love red tape and taxpayer funding to keep them working. The cost is in the litigation--not the execution. The actual execution actually costs less than two hundred dollars. Typical leftist. Don't fix the cost of red tape, just throw the entire process away.

The problem with you leftists is you lack common sense. Make the death penalty fast tracked. All appeals exhausted in two years. It would cost much less money for execution than 18 years of imprisonment and public defenders in appeals than it would be for a lifelong sentence.

 

[JoeB131]

Typical leftist. Throw American job providers in prison and not the criminals who invaded our country. Brilliant. This is the Taliban mentality. Throw the raped woman in jail for being raped, and allow the rapist to wonder freely. After all, it was her fault for being attractive enough to rape her.

The businessman who knowingly hires illegals isn't the 'victim". He knows damned well who he is hiring and he is gaming the system.

It costs millions of dollars because trial lawyers donate big bucks to the Democrat party at election time. They love red tape and taxpayer funding to keep them working. The cost is in the litigation--not the execution. The actual execution actually costs less than two hundred dollars. Typical leftist. Don't fix the cost of red tape, just throw the entire process away.

Yeah, the reason we need this "red tape" is to make sure we don't accidently execute the wrong person... which we have almost done 156 times.

Innocence

www.ncadp.org

Not to mention the 18 people we've executed who were probably innocent.

Executed But Possibly Innocent

The Death Penalty Information Center is a non-profit organization serving the media and the public with analysis and information about capital punishment.…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

That's WITH all the reviews and protections we have now, these things still manage to happen.

Also- key point, most of the lawyers who fight the Barbaric Death Penalty do it for free. In Illinois, most of the work was done by unpaid law students, where they identified 16 people wrongfully placed on death row before the state FINALLY had the good sense to abolish the practice.

 

[basquebromance]

Politicians in most countries are emphasising their willingness to follow science’s lead in matters concerning the pandemic.⁠
⁠
But what if science has no lead to offer?⁠

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The businessman who knowingly hires illegals isn't the 'victim". He knows damned well who he is hiring and he is gaming the system.

Right, and then when a lib Mayor or Governor finds out ICE is coming to bust those business, they make a public announcement so those illegals don't show up to work those days. Hey! If we are going to lockup business owners, why not lockup the Democrat politicians that are helping these illegals from getting caught?

Identity fraud is a big business in our country and others. It's nearly impossible to make absolute certain you are not hiring an illegal. Immigrants work for shit money be they legal or not. So business owners look for foreigners to save a buck.

This is the liberal mentality: Make little effort to stop these people illegally coming to our country, but when they get here and work for somebody, throw the business owner in jail and leave the criminal illegal alone.

You people have zero common sense. Did it ever occur to you that if there were no illegals here, no business would be able to hire them????

Yeah, the reason we need this "red tape" is to make sure we don't accidently execute the wrong person... which we have almost done 156 times.

Might have been the case 20 or 30 years ago, but not so today. Between cameras everywhere, new and developing forensic science, it's almost impossible to convict a wrong person. You no longer get the death penalty by somebody pointing a finger at you from the stand in court.

Democrats are natural criminals, that's why you are against the death penalty. You stick up for your own. That's why Democrat led states allow felons to vote, and some even let them vote in prison. Why? That's where you find a good Democrat voting block.

 

[JoeB131]

Right, and then when a lib Mayor or Governor finds out ICE is coming to bust those business, they make a public announcement so those illegals don't show up to work those days. Hey! If we are going to lockup business owners, why not lockup the Democrat politicians that are helping these illegals from getting caught?

Again, when ICE Starts busting the businessmen, I'll take this seriously.

Identity fraud is a big business in our country and others. It's nearly impossible to make absolute certain you are not hiring an illegal. Immigrants work for shit money be they legal or not. So business owners look for foreigners to save a buck.

Bullshit. They know exactly who they are hiring with the 'his papers looked okay to me" schtick. Again, EvilCo had a bunch of Illegals working in the back they hired through a temp company. When they were bought out by "SuperEvilCo", and they told them to knock if off, the Temp company started sending white metheads instead.

This is the liberal mentality: Make little effort to stop these people illegally coming to our country, but when they get here and work for somebody, throw the business owner in jail and leave the criminal illegal alone.

You people have zero common sense. Did it ever occur to you that if there were no illegals here, no business would be able to hire them????

Naw, man, as long as they know they can get jobs, they'll keep coming. That's the problem. Now, there's a simple enough solution, have a Guest Worker program to fill these shit jobs. It's a little game. Hassle the undocumented just enough to make the bigots happy, but they aren't going to get in the way of business.

In fact, Trump is actually deporting LESS undocumented immigrants than Obama did.

Trump isn't matching Obama deportation numbers

But there have been more deportations so far than any other full fiscal year of Trump's presidency.

www.axios.com

By the numbers: Under the Obama administration, total ICE deportations were above 385,000 each year in fiscal years 2009-2011, and hit a high of 409,849 in fiscal 2012. The numbers dropped to below 250,000 in fiscal years 2015 and 2016.

• Under Trump, ICE deportations fell to 226,119 in fiscal 2017, then ticked up to over 250,000 in fiscal 2018 and hit a Trump administration high of 282,242 this fiscal year (as of June).

You being played, son!!!!

Might have been the case 20 or 30 years ago, but not so today. Between cameras everywhere, new and developing forensic science, it's almost impossible to convict a wrong person. You no longer get the death penalty by somebody pointing a finger at you from the stand in court.

Really?

Executed But Possibly Innocent

The Death Penalty Information Center is a non-profit organization serving the media and the public with analysis and information about capital punishment.…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

Long story short, this guy was accused by a schizophrenic of the murder, and the Prosecutors hid that fact from the defense. Even after his mental illness became known, they still went ahead with the execution last year.

Executed But Possibly Innocent

The Death Penalty Information Center is a non-profit organization serving the media and the public with analysis and information about capital punishment.…

deathpenaltyinfo.org

This one was sweet. The victim was murdered 2 weeks before her body was found, at which time Swearingen was in prison for another offense. DNA excluded him as the killer, but they executed him anyway. Again, this was in 2019.

The point is- Cops are still corrupt.
Prosecutors still ignore evidence
Juries still come in and make mistakes.

That's why you don't get to have a death penalty.

 

[lennypartiv]

The point is, the DISEASE did get in despite Trump's travel ban and it spread to where we now have a quarter of the world's cases and a quarter of the fatalities.
Your boy is done. Maybe you need to start working on your "Trump wasn't a real Conservative" schtick you guys come up with when a Republican FAILS.

It's harder to keep things out of America when you libs bitch about protective walls being built.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Again, when ICE Starts busting the businessmen, I'll take this seriously.

They do bust businessmen, but our legal system states you need evidence that they knowingly hired illegals which is almost impossible to prove.

Bullshit. They know exactly who they are hiring with the 'his papers looked okay to me" schtick. Again, EvilCo had a bunch of Illegals working in the back they hired through a temp company. When they were bought out by "SuperEvilCo", and they told them to knock if off, the Temp company started sending white metheads instead.

Some do and some don't.

Fake ID market bypasses anti-fraud measures

High-quality fake IDs are readily available on the internet

www.techradar.com

Naw, man, as long as they know they can get jobs, they'll keep coming. That's the problem. Now, there's a simple enough solution, have a Guest Worker program to fill these shit jobs. It's a little game. Hassle the undocumented just enough to make the bigots happy, but they aren't going to get in the way of business.

In fact, Trump is actually deporting LESS undocumented immigrants than Obama did.

There are less Immigrants to deport because Trump is keeping them away from our border, that's why. In fact, over a 75% decease in border crossings since this time last year.

Long story short, this guy was accused by a schizophrenic of the murder, and the Prosecutors hid that fact from the defense. Even after his mental illness became known, they still went ahead with the execution last year.

It seems your site is pretty one-sided. What would you expect from an advocacy group called Death Penalty Information Center? What is says is that authorities are wrong, they provided fudged information,, people have alibis. I don't believe any of it. I don't believe some outside forensics people, likely paid by the family of the defendant, provided more reliable information than our government investigators and crime labs.

 

[JoeB131]

It's harder to keep things out of America when you libs bitch about protective walls being built.

So how was a wall going to protect us from a virus that came in on planes?

Here... let me draw you a picture, dummy.

 

[JoeB131]

They do bust businessmen, but our legal system states you need evidence that they knowingly hired illegals which is almost impossible to prove.

Bullshit, they all know exactly who they are hiring.

The problem is, they might haul away Paco when he's there, but they don't really investigate. Turn that fucker's life upside down. You'll find something.

There are less Immigrants to deport because Trump is keeping them away from our border, that's why. In fact, over a 75% decease in border crossings since this time last year.

Uh, the 75% decrease is because they don't want to catch Covid 19.

So that's Trump's brilliant plan. Fuck up the country with a fucking virus to scare all those brown people away! Awesome. One can only picture you and the other MAGAts cheering.

 

[Christ_on_a_croissant]

Indeed basquebromance, the "experts" buzzword is hilarious. Folks, I will debate any fucking Deep State, TDS clown claiming to be an expert, anytime, anywhere!

I’m sure they’re all shaking in their boots

 

[JoeB131]

It seems your site is pretty one-sided. What would you expect from an advocacy group called Death Penalty Information Center? What is says is that authorities are wrong, they provided fudged information,, people have alibis. I don't believe any of it. I don't believe some outside forensics people, likely paid by the family of the defendant, provided more reliable information than our government investigators and crime labs.

Most of these people can't afford forensic experts, that's how they end up getting railroaded to start with.

But here you go...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/crime-law/2019/08/17/did-faulty-science-bad-testimony-bring-larry-swearingen-brink-execution/

Blood flakes were found under Trotter’s fingernails, enough to develop a full DNA profile, which was determined to be from a man — but not Swearingen. But a Texas lab technician testified at trial that the blood came from contamination in the lab, not a possible killer. Earlier this month, the Texas Department of Public Safety issued a second letter saying the technician had no evidence of contamination or knowledge of how that would have happened.

⋅ Though Trotter had been gone for 25 days, her body was not heavily decomposed. The county medical examiner testified at trial that Trotter probably had been dead for 25 days. But she later changed her mind to 14 days. Seven other forensic pathology experts have said Trotter’s death couldn’t have occurred more than two weeks before her body was found, and Swearingen had been in jail for 22 days before the discovery.

So another dude's DNA was found on her AND she was killed when he was in jail.

Citing new evidence, condemned Georgia inmate seeks mercy

Lawyers for a man set for execution next week are asking Georgia's parole board to spare his life, arguing that newly discovered evidence raises doubts about their client's guilt.

apnews.com

DNA testing done years after the trial on semen found on clothing worn by one of the women who survived does not match Gary, his lawyers wrote. That’s significant, Gary’s lawyers assert, because the woman had dramatically identified Gary as her attacker during his trial, and the prosecution relied heavily on her testimony.

Bodily fluid testing done on semen found on Thurmond’s body and on stains on Scheible’s sheets also likely exclude Gary, his lawyers argue. DNA analysis would have provided further evidence, they wrote, but it couldn’t be done because the samples were discovered to have been contaminated at the Georgia Bureau of Investigation crime lab.

A shoeprint found at one of the scenes was not disclosed to the defense until 20 years after his trial and would have cast doubt on his guilt because his size 13-and-a-half foot would not have fit in the size 10 shoe that made the print, the application says.

These aren't guys who were executed or almost executed a long time ago. These were guys executed in the LAST COUPLE OF YEARS.

This is why you don't get a death penalty. Even with all the appeals, checks, cross-checks, we STILL end up putting innocent guys to death.