Welcome to tyranny.

[Marion Morrison]

Come gather 'round people, wherever you roam
And admit that the gub’mit around you have grown
And accept it that soon or be picked to the bone
If your country to you is worth saving
Then you better start thinkin' or you’ll just be their clone
For the times they are a-changin'

Come writers and critics, who prophesize with your pen
And keep your eyes wide, its’ all the same sh*t again
And don’t speak too soon
For the media’s skewed spin
And there’s no tellin' who that it’s blamin'
For the loser is us if you let them win
For the times they are a changin’


You Senators Congressmen don’t heed our call
You give the crumbs while your lobbyists take all
While the middle class battle is ragin'
Will soon shake your windows and rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'

Come mothers and fathers throughout the land
Don’t stand on old times as if
Your sons and your daughters are beyond your command
Your old road is rapidly aging
Please get outta' the new one if you can’t lend your hand
For the times they are a-changin'



The line it is drawn, the curse it is cast
The slow one now will later be fast
As the present now will later be past
The order is rapidly fading
And the first one now will later be last
For the times they are a-changin'

~S~ w/apologies to Mr Dylan

Oh ok, to "All along the Watchtower."

I was like..hmm.. do not get this one.

 

[Marion Morrison]

And you are exactly what the framers of the Constitution warned us about.

You shouldn't speak on subjects you know nothing about.

health-safety-and-morals

www.law.cornell.edu

Obviously you either never read or don't understand the Bill Of Rights. No where in there does it say that .gov can shut down your business, close the churches, and force you to stay home.

The Bill of Rights is not the legal code which determines this matter. Is it?

How would you feel about if the 2nd amendment is?

 

[LoneLaugher]

And you are exactly what the framers of the Constitution warned us about.

You shouldn't speak on subjects you know nothing about.

health-safety-and-morals

www.law.cornell.edu

Obviously you either never read or don't understand the Bill Of Rights. No where in there does it say that .gov can shut down your business, close the churches, and force you to stay home.

The Bill of Rights is not the legal code which determines this matter. Is it?

How would you feel about if the 2nd amendment is?

Try again pretzel fingers.

 

[Marion Morrison]

And you are exactly what the framers of the Constitution warned us about.

You shouldn't speak on subjects you know nothing about.

health-safety-and-morals

www.law.cornell.edu

Obviously you either never read or don't understand the Bill Of Rights. No where in there does it say that .gov can shut down your business, close the churches, and force you to stay home.

The Bill of Rights is not the legal code which determines this matter. Is it?

How would you feel about if the 2nd amendment is?

Try again pretzel fingers.

The 2nd is in the Bill of Rights, UnAmerican Dog Turd boy.

 

[LoneLaugher]

And you are exactly what the framers of the Constitution warned us about.

You shouldn't speak on subjects you know nothing about.

health-safety-and-morals

www.law.cornell.edu

Obviously you either never read or don't understand the Bill Of Rights. No where in there does it say that .gov can shut down your business, close the churches, and force you to stay home.

The Bill of Rights is not the legal code which determines this matter. Is it?

How would you feel about if the 2nd amendment is?

Try again pretzel fingers.

The 2nd is in the Bill of Rights, UnAmerican Dog Turd boy.

Yes. It is. And your sentence still makes no sense, weird old illiterate dude.

 

[Marion Morrison]

And you are exactly what the framers of the Constitution warned us about.

You shouldn't speak on subjects you know nothing about.

health-safety-and-morals

www.law.cornell.edu

Obviously you either never read or don't understand the Bill Of Rights. No where in there does it say that .gov can shut down your business, close the churches, and force you to stay home.

The Bill of Rights is not the legal code which determines this matter. Is it?

How would you feel about if the 2nd amendment is?

Try again pretzel fingers.

The 2nd is in the Bill of Rights, UnAmerican Dog Turd boy.

Yes. It is. And your sentence still makes no sense, weird old illiterate dude.

Oh, it does, but apparently you're incapable of wrapping your pin-head around it.

 

[MindWars]

The left trust their Gods even when they lie get caught and lie again it just doesn't matter...

 

[Tom Paine 1949]

Marion Morrison , as long as you use that Confederate symbol (a fake Florida Flag) — a symbol of Jim Crow and slavery — all your talk about “fighting Tyranny” and “defending civil liberties” will ring hollow to most Americans. It may mean “rebel pride” to you, but to most Americans today it’s a toxic symbol that belong’s safely buried in our past.

 

[LoneLaugher]

but I know how reading the truth destroys you.

and i know no POTUS in our history has EVER intentionally put so many Americans out of work Ray

~S~

You are so right. I don't know why Trump created this worldwide virus to put so many people out of work.

He didn't create it

But he's going to have to deal w/it Ray

I want a leader w/leadership

and i want it NOW!

~S~

He is dealing with it. What's your complaint?

No plan

~S~

Perhaps try watching his daily news conferences he has seven days a week. He talks about our status and plans every day.

Man. You really think that is what he’s doing up there don’t you?

It's not an opinion. He's either doing it or he isn't, and he's doing it.

No. He is up there campaigning for his re-election. Why can't you see that?

He does do a little of that unfortunately. But most of his addresses are keeping us posted on masks, ventilators (which we will hopefully not need now), advancements and what the models are saying and things like that. Without a doubt, you can't watch one of those episodes and say you didn't learn anything new. And here is an article I found today speaking of advancements.

Dogs might join the good fight to prevent the spread of the coronavirus in humans–especially for those who are symptom free, according to a team of researchers.

Due to the urgent need of coronavirus testing, preparations to intensively train dogs to detect asymptomatic carries of the virus have started and could be ready in six weeks, according to the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.

“It’s very early stages,” says James Logan, head of LSHTM’s Department of Disease Control.

“We know diseases have odors — including respiratory diseases such as influenza — and that those odors are in fact quite distinct. There is a very, very good chance that Covid-19 has a specific odor, and if it does I am really confident that the dogs would be able to learn that smell and detect it.”

Dogs might be able to sniff out the coronavirus

Dogs might join the good fight to prevent the spread of the coronavirus in humans–especially for those who are symptom free, according to a team of researchers. Due to the urgent need of coro…

nypost.com

No. Most of the briefings are campaigning. He READS his inspirational comments. He reads off a few numbers of "millions of masks" or "thousands of ventilators....the BEST ventilators" and then he lets Pence suck his ass for twenty minutes. He has Birx talk about the models. Then he gets up there and bullshits for an hour while blaming others and bragging about how great he is.

He gives us almost zero new information.

Judging by what you are saying, it seems you never watched one of his press conferences.

You listening to this joker right now? He is passing the buck on testing right now. It is all vague self praise.

Every topic he addresses includes a dig at someone else or a word of praise for himself.

He’s a fundamentally flawed person. And you think he’s a great guy.

Fuck you.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

but I know how reading the truth destroys you.

and i know no POTUS in our history has EVER intentionally put so many Americans out of work Ray

~S~

You are so right. I don't know why Trump created this worldwide virus to put so many people out of work.

He didn't create it

But he's going to have to deal w/it Ray

I want a leader w/leadership

and i want it NOW!

~S~

He is dealing with it. What's your complaint?

No plan

~S~

Perhaps try watching his daily news conferences he has seven days a week. He talks about our status and plans every day.

Man. You really think that is what he’s doing up there don’t you?

It's not an opinion. He's either doing it or he isn't, and he's doing it.

No. He is up there campaigning for his re-election. Why can't you see that?

He does do a little of that unfortunately. But most of his addresses are keeping us posted on masks, ventilators (which we will hopefully not need now), advancements and what the models are saying and things like that. Without a doubt, you can't watch one of those episodes and say you didn't learn anything new. And here is an article I found today speaking of advancements.

Dogs might join the good fight to prevent the spread of the coronavirus in humans–especially for those who are symptom free, according to a team of researchers.

Due to the urgent need of coronavirus testing, preparations to intensively train dogs to detect asymptomatic carries of the virus have started and could be ready in six weeks, according to the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.

“It’s very early stages,” says James Logan, head of LSHTM’s Department of Disease Control.

“We know diseases have odors — including respiratory diseases such as influenza — and that those odors are in fact quite distinct. There is a very, very good chance that Covid-19 has a specific odor, and if it does I am really confident that the dogs would be able to learn that smell and detect it.”

Dogs might be able to sniff out the coronavirus

Dogs might join the good fight to prevent the spread of the coronavirus in humans–especially for those who are symptom free, according to a team of researchers. Due to the urgent need of coro…

nypost.com

No. Most of the briefings are campaigning. He READS his inspirational comments. He reads off a few numbers of "millions of masks" or "thousands of ventilators....the BEST ventilators" and then he lets Pence suck his ass for twenty minutes. He has Birx talk about the models. Then he gets up there and bullshits for an hour while blaming others and bragging about how great he is.

He gives us almost zero new information.

Judging by what you are saying, it seems you never watched one of his press conferences.

You listening to this joker right now? He is passing the buck on testing right now. It is all vague self praise.

Every topic he addresses includes a dig at someone else or a word of praise for himself.

He’s a fundamentally flawed person. And you think he’s a great guy.

Fuck you.

It would be the best one you ever had.

I don't care about Trump inserting politics into it, but that doesn't discount the important new information he comes out with every update. While Piglosi and gang took off for a three week vacation amidst our country in the heart of the worst pandemic of our lives, the President is at least out there every single evening doing his job. I can't tell you how many times he's made a request in these updates for the Congress to come back to deal with this problem--especially when it comes to the salvation of small businesses. She's sitting home eating expensive ice cream.

 

[Maxdeath]

I can see a reasonable "stay home" period, especially in cities where subway rides can mean an explosion in cases.
However, as long as masks are worn, and hand sanitizer used, that should safely allow people to work.
Governors need to know that most people live week to week and no work means no money.

You are ignoring the fact that millions and millions are collecting unemployment, that small businesses have been given money they won't have to pay back as long as they use the money to continue to pay their workers, that stimulus checks have already been delivered all over the country and that major banks have agreed not to foreclose on unpaid mortgages. The people are hurting, sure. Unemployment is not as much as a paycheck and the small businesses paying their staff have cut the hours they are covering.

Yes, for the economy's sake, we need to get things going. But it is not because everyone is penniless and starving.

You are right to a certain extent. People are not at this minute starving but if we continue with the lockdown that will change in very short order. Banks can not continue to forgive, rental owners can not continue to forgive, the government can not continue to place Trillions on its credit card. There has to be a point when no matter what we have to open.
People take a chance just from living, heart attack etc. you take a chance from getting in a car, from getting in a plane. People need to decide for themselves when the risk of loosing everything they have is worth the risk of going back to work.
Some even see the suspension of the bill of rights and the constitution as grounds for ending the lockdown.

People are in different positions in life. Yes, you take a chance by getting in a car, but if you drive a car totally drunk, your chances of getting in an accident rise considerably.

As for myself, while I understand the economic ramifications, I don't think the last couple of weeks will kill us. What will kill me is getting this virus, so my interest is seeing it wiped out ASAP. With my medical conditions, I'm that guy who's totally drunk getting behind the wheel of a car.

You do realize that even before this dempanic nonsense life was a crapshoot. At any given moment dozens of diseases are swirling around you. There are several different strains of influenza, TB, even diseases thought eradicated still have vestiges. If you were to look at your skin under a microscope you would see an overcrowded war zone.

The greatest danger doesn't come from this virus. The greatest danger comes from sanitizing yourself so much that the eternal war for your health and well being gets out of balance.

This virus is not much different than the flu. The major difference however is how fast it can spread.

I understand both sides of the argument. But I don't go outside unless I have to for food, beverage or medication. It's not fun as we all currently know. I don't know anybody here personally, but I'm willing to bet most of the "open up the economy" people are at low risk for death. You catch it, no big deal. You stay home for a few weeks and carry on with life.

Okay, so we do just that, we open up the economy. What's likely to happen? That flattened curve will no longer be flat, It will resume going upwards. But hey, at least people are back at work or continuing their life, right?

That's true, but it makes people like me have to live this isolated lifestyle for months and perhaps well over another year. Is that okay with you?

So lets turn that around just a little. Is it alright to take other people's house and car and savings away just so you aren't inconvenienced?
Is it ok to increase our national debt just so you aren't inconvenienced?

I think there can be a happy middle ground to this. I say keep it this way until there are easily enough N-95 masks for everybody. If the mask you wear isn't an N-95, it isn't providing adequate protection. It's only helping stop the spread of the virus if you have it.

Once again do you consider your needs above many others?

Not at all. I'm just thinking of what could work for everybody. Like I said, something in the middle. Hey, I have an IRA in the market too. My last statement said I lost around 25%. Not happy. What I want to see is to make sure our medical personnel are well protected, our first responders, and then people like myself who are at a high fatality risk get these masks. If I have some protection being that I live in an area with high infection rates, I'll be glad to wear a mask for a year or whenever to see this economy rip roaring again.

I understand we can't live like this until August. Too much economic damage to recover from.

Well I am at least glad you understand that we can't live with everyone hiding under the bed forever. But are you going to be upset because Florida is opening up now? Are you going to be crying that Texas will be by May?
I saw my IRA down also but I just stopped taking an out until it comes back.
The people I care about is the family with a house payment, a car payment and probably living paycheck to paycheck. The little bit they got in a stimulus check is not going to go far. So do we keep spending on the Feds credit card just little bits of money or do we force everyone of them to get use to shelters, breadlines and welfare?

As I was saying to Kyzr, unemployment with the federal contribution is pretty generous at this time. I'm sure there will be many people making more money sitting at home than they did working. So I'm really not concerned on how they pay their bills.

I'm not too worried about my IRA either. It's invested with a very fine company, and I have no immediate plans to use it. My real concern is that we don't have a relapse of this problem, only tenfold. Not only am I at high risk, both of my parents are in their late 80's, and they have plenty of medical problems themselves. The more people in my environment that has this thing, the higher risk of me or a member of my family catching it.


The President and our Governors are having to perform a balancing act. There is no right or wrong decision here. If we move too fast, that could be devastating to our health. If we move too slow, it may be devastating to our economy. I feel for those leaders right now. No matter what they decide, you can't blame them one way or the other.

I also feel that this debt should be repaid by all of us once we get things back on track. I think we should have a federal consumption tax until everything we are spending on today slowly gets paid back tomorrow. Say ten cents on every dollar spent. Yes, it will take quite a bit of time to repay it, but I think it's something we need to do in order to secure our financial future.

Let’s not forget that you said that you would not work if you could receive enough money from “welfare”. That’s you. A “conservative”.

You project.

Do you think I haven't seen this before? I've lived through several recessions; two major ones. I know how people not working feel about staying on unemployment if they can make ends meet that way. I've seen people stay on it until it's very last day. I've seen people on it and working under the table for cash.

A late friend of mine worked at the steel mills. When he got laid off, the union paid him 90% of his pay, he was still able to collect unemployment since the government and unions are both criminals, and he worked under the table. He used to laugh telling me how he was making so much more money not working than working. He waited until the mills sent him a letter to return to work because he would never answer the phone if he knew it was them calling.

I'm glad you think that "most" Americans don't think like that, but to your chagrin, they do. Don't believe me, just look at the food stamp growth under DumBama, when supposedly, he got the economy going again. It wasn't until the Republican Governors started to make requirements that those people started to drop out of the program.

I could be wrong but I hear people saying they want to go back to work so I make the assumption that they are telling each other the truth.
Every time I hear people complain about something during this time I can't help but think about history.
I wonder how many would have made it when we had polio, the Spanish flu or any of the other things that we have had over history.
I can't help but think of how many would have made it out of the boats during DDay.
I can't help but wonder how many could have survived when milk, meat, and almost everything else was rationed.
Then I wonder if the generations now have enough cereal and milk or toilet paper.
I remember families sending sons and fathers off to war before we had instant communication, before we had correspondents on the battlefield. They knew that they may not hear from them for weeks or months. Sometimes people were notified of a son or fathers death and days later get a letter from them.
Now I wonder how people get by with only emails, phone calls, video chat.

My father likes to tell stories about his pathetic childhood. He and his five siblings grew up in a house about the size of a three car garage. They were on welfare, but welfare back then meant the kids pulling their red wagon to the fire station five miles down the road. There, the firemen would fill up their wagon with fruits and vegetables.

When they wanted a real treat, they walked 15 miles to the next city. They knew a woman that would make them peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. They had to eat their sandwiches behind her garage. If my grandfather found out they were begging, he would beat the hell out of them.

They had no natural gas, propane heat or plumbing. In the winters, which can be pretty brutal up north, they had to use the outhouse in the backyard. With a family of seven, that hole filled up pretty quickly. It didn't even have a roof on it.

My father jokes that he joined the US Marines so he could finally know what it felt like to have three square meals a day. Of course, when you're in a bloodbath in a place like Korea, you burn off that food pretty quick.

Today, the government is asking that we sit home in front of our big screen, get paid well, watch our 400 cable or satellite television channels, and fool around on this internet to no end. Now we think that's too much to ask of citizens today to stop a pandemic. It's just more suffering that we can handle, and it's only been a few weeks.

The thing that most people don't see is that we may never recover from this. States like New York, California and Washington are spending money that they don't have and will never have. Thanks to business being closed and people not working taxes are not there to collect. Even the hidden taxes on things like gasoline is going to be substantially down. Even small population states like Wyoming that relies on tourism is going to suffer. So even if we were to bring back the economy in the next few months to what it was before the virus, which is very unlikely it won't save some states.
Add that on to the fact that the small business loans have dried up and no more money has been forth coming to replenish it, thanks in large part to Pelosi, we may see small businesses die out. Which means jobs dying with them. That will mean more unemployment. That will mean more strain on the states and less taxes coming in.
I see tax heavy states trying to up taxes. I don't see that sitting very well with the people living there.

How much did adding that throwaway BS line about Pelosi soothe your butthurt?

NY, California and Washington are states which actually contribute to the nation’s economy and federal revenues. They put in more than they take out.

The idea that they are in worse shape than the shithole red states who suck the federal coffers dry is humorous. The reason these states are the place where the virus has taken hold is the same one that makes these states so valuable. There is massive economic activity there. They’re the engine that runs our economy.

Roflol. Got to love the crazy. So you are saying that Pelosi is not holding up the funding? Or are you just upset?
I hate to dissalusion you but no one was talking about the Feds. I was talking about the state level. I know it is hard to understand the diffrence when you just want to rant nonsense.

So show me where states spending so much on healthcare and not receiving taxes is going to help their economy.

Dumbass. The reason the bill is being held up is because there is no money in it for states to use to keep operating their healthcare programs.

It has nothing to do with Pelosi not helping small businesses. It has to do with Trump being butthurt over some governors holding him to account.

It was origanally meant to add money to the small business relief. It was not meant to help healthcare programs. That could easily be brought forth in another bill. But it makes more sense to add more and more things just to hold up the bill.
No matter how you slice it you really need a better talking point to help your little princess. People and small businesses are suffering while she shows off her mega expensive refrigerators and her 32 flavors of gourmet ice cream.
I notice no one has actually suggested that congress take a pay cut to show that they are willing to suffer like the little people. In fact they increased their pay.

It was part of a comprehensive $2.2 TRILLION dollar bailout, that did not include the State governments spending boocoos of money on hospitals, personal protective gear for doctors and nurses, ventilators, etc etc etc

Why did they not include the small business money needed to help them the first time around bail out?

Was it a game for congress critters and the President to hide that it needed to be a $4 trillion dollar bail out?.

Why did the bail out let the big ass small businesses grab all the money first, instead of truly going to small businesses?

Why was there $500 billion in the bailout bill for big corporations, who already have borrowing power and were handed zero percent interest rates by the Fed? Instead of setting this half a trillion dollars for small businesses?

Why is Trump trying to grease big corporations wheels like this?

I guess you missed that the original CARES was a bipartisan bill that was held up when Pelosi came in at the last moment an wanted more pork. I understand that no one knew how long this was going to last or how many small businesses would be affected. Glad you have such 20/20 hindsight.
Big business also needs to remain a vital part of our economy since they actually have a large portion of the jobs. They also have the largest money requirements.
I get that so many mistakenly believe that large companies have vaults full of money that are just sitting around so that the heads can walk in and gaze on it.

Big business also needs to remain a vital part of our economy since they actually have a large portion of the jobs. They also have the largest money requirements.

True, they do have expenses that are bigger, but they also have more cash than the small business, and they have borrowing power that the mom and pop small business does not have at their fingertips..... the small business needed to be helped first.... instead the banks with our tax dollars, gave our money to the businesses they had relationships with, ones that the bank had loans with previous to the crisis.... the banks, with our money, essentially took care of themselves first....via the larger businesses getting the loans.... and the small businesses with no borrowing power, and needed the bail out money pronto, were left by the wayside....

No only a certain amount of money was allocated for small business. It ran out on Thursday. Big business was another potion of the whole CARES

do you consider a business with 500 employees a small business or a big business? To me, a business with 500 employees is no longer a small business.....

Do you consider a small business with 10 employees worth saving or should they be bankrupted on the alter of politics and the virus

 

[Care4all]

I can see a reasonable "stay home" period, especially in cities where subway rides can mean an explosion in cases.
However, as long as masks are worn, and hand sanitizer used, that should safely allow people to work.
Governors need to know that most people live week to week and no work means no money.

You are ignoring the fact that millions and millions are collecting unemployment, that small businesses have been given money they won't have to pay back as long as they use the money to continue to pay their workers, that stimulus checks have already been delivered all over the country and that major banks have agreed not to foreclose on unpaid mortgages. The people are hurting, sure. Unemployment is not as much as a paycheck and the small businesses paying their staff have cut the hours they are covering.

Yes, for the economy's sake, we need to get things going. But it is not because everyone is penniless and starving.

You are right to a certain extent. People are not at this minute starving but if we continue with the lockdown that will change in very short order. Banks can not continue to forgive, rental owners can not continue to forgive, the government can not continue to place Trillions on its credit card. There has to be a point when no matter what we have to open.
People take a chance just from living, heart attack etc. you take a chance from getting in a car, from getting in a plane. People need to decide for themselves when the risk of loosing everything they have is worth the risk of going back to work.
Some even see the suspension of the bill of rights and the constitution as grounds for ending the lockdown.

People are in different positions in life. Yes, you take a chance by getting in a car, but if you drive a car totally drunk, your chances of getting in an accident rise considerably.

As for myself, while I understand the economic ramifications, I don't think the last couple of weeks will kill us. What will kill me is getting this virus, so my interest is seeing it wiped out ASAP. With my medical conditions, I'm that guy who's totally drunk getting behind the wheel of a car.

You do realize that even before this dempanic nonsense life was a crapshoot. At any given moment dozens of diseases are swirling around you. There are several different strains of influenza, TB, even diseases thought eradicated still have vestiges. If you were to look at your skin under a microscope you would see an overcrowded war zone.

The greatest danger doesn't come from this virus. The greatest danger comes from sanitizing yourself so much that the eternal war for your health and well being gets out of balance.

This virus is not much different than the flu. The major difference however is how fast it can spread.

I understand both sides of the argument. But I don't go outside unless I have to for food, beverage or medication. It's not fun as we all currently know. I don't know anybody here personally, but I'm willing to bet most of the "open up the economy" people are at low risk for death. You catch it, no big deal. You stay home for a few weeks and carry on with life.

Okay, so we do just that, we open up the economy. What's likely to happen? That flattened curve will no longer be flat, It will resume going upwards. But hey, at least people are back at work or continuing their life, right?

That's true, but it makes people like me have to live this isolated lifestyle for months and perhaps well over another year. Is that okay with you?

So lets turn that around just a little. Is it alright to take other people's house and car and savings away just so you aren't inconvenienced?
Is it ok to increase our national debt just so you aren't inconvenienced?

I think there can be a happy middle ground to this. I say keep it this way until there are easily enough N-95 masks for everybody. If the mask you wear isn't an N-95, it isn't providing adequate protection. It's only helping stop the spread of the virus if you have it.

Once again do you consider your needs above many others?

Not at all. I'm just thinking of what could work for everybody. Like I said, something in the middle. Hey, I have an IRA in the market too. My last statement said I lost around 25%. Not happy. What I want to see is to make sure our medical personnel are well protected, our first responders, and then people like myself who are at a high fatality risk get these masks. If I have some protection being that I live in an area with high infection rates, I'll be glad to wear a mask for a year or whenever to see this economy rip roaring again.

I understand we can't live like this until August. Too much economic damage to recover from.

Well I am at least glad you understand that we can't live with everyone hiding under the bed forever. But are you going to be upset because Florida is opening up now? Are you going to be crying that Texas will be by May?
I saw my IRA down also but I just stopped taking an out until it comes back.
The people I care about is the family with a house payment, a car payment and probably living paycheck to paycheck. The little bit they got in a stimulus check is not going to go far. So do we keep spending on the Feds credit card just little bits of money or do we force everyone of them to get use to shelters, breadlines and welfare?

As I was saying to Kyzr, unemployment with the federal contribution is pretty generous at this time. I'm sure there will be many people making more money sitting at home than they did working. So I'm really not concerned on how they pay their bills.

I'm not too worried about my IRA either. It's invested with a very fine company, and I have no immediate plans to use it. My real concern is that we don't have a relapse of this problem, only tenfold. Not only am I at high risk, both of my parents are in their late 80's, and they have plenty of medical problems themselves. The more people in my environment that has this thing, the higher risk of me or a member of my family catching it.


The President and our Governors are having to perform a balancing act. There is no right or wrong decision here. If we move too fast, that could be devastating to our health. If we move too slow, it may be devastating to our economy. I feel for those leaders right now. No matter what they decide, you can't blame them one way or the other.

I also feel that this debt should be repaid by all of us once we get things back on track. I think we should have a federal consumption tax until everything we are spending on today slowly gets paid back tomorrow. Say ten cents on every dollar spent. Yes, it will take quite a bit of time to repay it, but I think it's something we need to do in order to secure our financial future.

Let’s not forget that you said that you would not work if you could receive enough money from “welfare”. That’s you. A “conservative”.

You project.

Do you think I haven't seen this before? I've lived through several recessions; two major ones. I know how people not working feel about staying on unemployment if they can make ends meet that way. I've seen people stay on it until it's very last day. I've seen people on it and working under the table for cash.

A late friend of mine worked at the steel mills. When he got laid off, the union paid him 90% of his pay, he was still able to collect unemployment since the government and unions are both criminals, and he worked under the table. He used to laugh telling me how he was making so much more money not working than working. He waited until the mills sent him a letter to return to work because he would never answer the phone if he knew it was them calling.

I'm glad you think that "most" Americans don't think like that, but to your chagrin, they do. Don't believe me, just look at the food stamp growth under DumBama, when supposedly, he got the economy going again. It wasn't until the Republican Governors started to make requirements that those people started to drop out of the program.

I could be wrong but I hear people saying they want to go back to work so I make the assumption that they are telling each other the truth.
Every time I hear people complain about something during this time I can't help but think about history.
I wonder how many would have made it when we had polio, the Spanish flu or any of the other things that we have had over history.
I can't help but think of how many would have made it out of the boats during DDay.
I can't help but wonder how many could have survived when milk, meat, and almost everything else was rationed.
Then I wonder if the generations now have enough cereal and milk or toilet paper.
I remember families sending sons and fathers off to war before we had instant communication, before we had correspondents on the battlefield. They knew that they may not hear from them for weeks or months. Sometimes people were notified of a son or fathers death and days later get a letter from them.
Now I wonder how people get by with only emails, phone calls, video chat.

My father likes to tell stories about his pathetic childhood. He and his five siblings grew up in a house about the size of a three car garage. They were on welfare, but welfare back then meant the kids pulling their red wagon to the fire station five miles down the road. There, the firemen would fill up their wagon with fruits and vegetables.

When they wanted a real treat, they walked 15 miles to the next city. They knew a woman that would make them peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. They had to eat their sandwiches behind her garage. If my grandfather found out they were begging, he would beat the hell out of them.

They had no natural gas, propane heat or plumbing. In the winters, which can be pretty brutal up north, they had to use the outhouse in the backyard. With a family of seven, that hole filled up pretty quickly. It didn't even have a roof on it.

My father jokes that he joined the US Marines so he could finally know what it felt like to have three square meals a day. Of course, when you're in a bloodbath in a place like Korea, you burn off that food pretty quick.

Today, the government is asking that we sit home in front of our big screen, get paid well, watch our 400 cable or satellite television channels, and fool around on this internet to no end. Now we think that's too much to ask of citizens today to stop a pandemic. It's just more suffering that we can handle, and it's only been a few weeks.

The thing that most people don't see is that we may never recover from this. States like New York, California and Washington are spending money that they don't have and will never have. Thanks to business being closed and people not working taxes are not there to collect. Even the hidden taxes on things like gasoline is going to be substantially down. Even small population states like Wyoming that relies on tourism is going to suffer. So even if we were to bring back the economy in the next few months to what it was before the virus, which is very unlikely it won't save some states.
Add that on to the fact that the small business loans have dried up and no more money has been forth coming to replenish it, thanks in large part to Pelosi, we may see small businesses die out. Which means jobs dying with them. That will mean more unemployment. That will mean more strain on the states and less taxes coming in.
I see tax heavy states trying to up taxes. I don't see that sitting very well with the people living there.

How much did adding that throwaway BS line about Pelosi soothe your butthurt?

NY, California and Washington are states which actually contribute to the nation’s economy and federal revenues. They put in more than they take out.

The idea that they are in worse shape than the shithole red states who suck the federal coffers dry is humorous. The reason these states are the place where the virus has taken hold is the same one that makes these states so valuable. There is massive economic activity there. They’re the engine that runs our economy.

Roflol. Got to love the crazy. So you are saying that Pelosi is not holding up the funding? Or are you just upset?
I hate to dissalusion you but no one was talking about the Feds. I was talking about the state level. I know it is hard to understand the diffrence when you just want to rant nonsense.

So show me where states spending so much on healthcare and not receiving taxes is going to help their economy.

Dumbass. The reason the bill is being held up is because there is no money in it for states to use to keep operating their healthcare programs.

It has nothing to do with Pelosi not helping small businesses. It has to do with Trump being butthurt over some governors holding him to account.

It was origanally meant to add money to the small business relief. It was not meant to help healthcare programs. That could easily be brought forth in another bill. But it makes more sense to add more and more things just to hold up the bill.
No matter how you slice it you really need a better talking point to help your little princess. People and small businesses are suffering while she shows off her mega expensive refrigerators and her 32 flavors of gourmet ice cream.
I notice no one has actually suggested that congress take a pay cut to show that they are willing to suffer like the little people. In fact they increased their pay.

It was part of a comprehensive $2.2 TRILLION dollar bailout, that did not include the State governments spending boocoos of money on hospitals, personal protective gear for doctors and nurses, ventilators, etc etc etc

Why did they not include the small business money needed to help them the first time around bail out?

Was it a game for congress critters and the President to hide that it needed to be a $4 trillion dollar bail out?.

Why did the bail out let the big ass small businesses grab all the money first, instead of truly going to small businesses?

Why was there $500 billion in the bailout bill for big corporations, who already have borrowing power and were handed zero percent interest rates by the Fed? Instead of setting this half a trillion dollars for small businesses?

Why is Trump trying to grease big corporations wheels like this?

I guess you missed that the original CARES was a bipartisan bill that was held up when Pelosi came in at the last moment an wanted more pork. I understand that no one knew how long this was going to last or how many small businesses would be affected. Glad you have such 20/20 hindsight.
Big business also needs to remain a vital part of our economy since they actually have a large portion of the jobs. They also have the largest money requirements.
I get that so many mistakenly believe that large companies have vaults full of money that are just sitting around so that the heads can walk in and gaze on it.

Big business also needs to remain a vital part of our economy since they actually have a large portion of the jobs. They also have the largest money requirements.

True, they do have expenses that are bigger, but they also have more cash than the small business, and they have borrowing power that the mom and pop small business does not have at their fingertips..... the small business needed to be helped first.... instead the banks with our tax dollars, gave our money to the businesses they had relationships with, ones that the bank had loans with previous to the crisis.... the banks, with our money, essentially took care of themselves first....via the larger businesses getting the loans.... and the small businesses with no borrowing power, and needed the bail out money pronto, were left by the wayside....

No only a certain amount of money was allocated for small business. It ran out on Thursday. Big business was another potion of the whole CARES

do you consider a business with 500 employees a small business or a big business? To me, a business with 500 employees is no longer a small business.....

Do you consider a small business with 10 employees worth saving or should they be bankrupted on the alter of politics and the virus

10 employees is definitely a small business!

Max, some crappy things with the small business loans has gone on.... i'm not blaming Trump or congress..... it was an emergency.....

and they didn't dot eyes and cross tees

some businesses are getting this money, that never shut down, have employees all working, many from home... this money was meant to keep small businesses, that had to shut down and fire all their employees because they had no money to keep them.... in business and paying their employees....

that's not what happened but for few, with the first quarter of a trillion dollars of it.....

 

[JoeB131]

It will be similar to what we always see in major recessions. We find a way to make it work. You can kill the economy, but you can't kill the capitalistic spirit. When this starts lifting up, people will have the money to spend with the most generous unemployment stipend I've ever seen in my life, and likely in our history. Hell, it may be the shortest recession in history as well.

Guy, we've never gotten out of a recession without massive government spending.

No, it probably won't be a short one, because they never are. Because right now, right after they get their big old checks, the One Percenters are thinking, 'How can we use this to FUCK working people?" It's their fucking nature.

On a more practical note, right now, US Corporations have run up a record amount of debt even before this started. They'll be looking for ways to pay that down, and the best way to do that- FUCK over working people.

 

[JoeB131]

Do you consider a small business with 10 employees worth saving or should they be bankrupted on the alter of politics and the virus

It depends? did the owner support Trump? Then, yes, ice that mother fucker.

Instant Karma, baby.

 

[Maxdeath]

Do you consider a small business with 10 employees worth saving or should they be bankrupted on the alter of politics and the virus

It depends? did the owner support Trump? Then, yes, ice that mother fucker.

Instant Karma, baby.

I like how your hate rules everything with you no thought no heat no understanding just blind hate. Good for you.

 

[22lcidw]

It will be similar to what we always see in major recessions. We find a way to make it work. You can kill the economy, but you can't kill the capitalistic spirit. When this starts lifting up, people will have the money to spend with the most generous unemployment stipend I've ever seen in my life, and likely in our history. Hell, it may be the shortest recession in history as well.

Guy, we've never gotten out of a recession without massive government spending.

No, it probably won't be a short one, because they never are. Because right now, right after they get their big old checks, the One Percenters are thinking, 'How can we use this to FUCK working people?" It's their fucking nature.

On a more practical note, right now, US Corporations have run up a record amount of debt even before this started. They'll be looking for ways to pay that down, and the best way to do that- FUCK over working people.

We got into them because of government. Or because government with its experiments causes a potential short down turn to become a long one. The Federal Reserve is owned by foreigners. But our politicians play their games with it. Frankly, the owners know that the United States now exists do to them.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Guy, we've never gotten out of a recession without massive government spending.

We've never had a recession because of a world pandemic before either. They were caused by various things beyond our control, and we simply didn't know when it would end: tech bubble, housing bubble, 911 and terrorism.........

So I think people will have more confidence to go out and spend money this time once we get the green light to do so. For instance I need a parking lot extension. I couldn't get anybody here to do it the last couple of years because of the economy. Asphalt companies only wanted to deal with commercial as those big jobs pay the best.

Now they will be looking for work and I may even get companies to bid on the job giving me the best price. I'm honest enough to admit I'm like those company owners and CEO's, where I look for people that can do the job for the lowest price.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

No, it probably won't be a short one, because they never are. Because right now, right after they get their big old checks, the One Percenters are thinking, 'How can we use this to F••• working people?" It's their f•••ing nature.

On a more practical note, right now, US Corporations have run up a record amount of debt even before this started. They'll be looking for ways to pay that down, and the best way to do that- F••• over working people.

Do you consider a small business with 10 employees worth saving or should they be bankrupted on the alter of politics and the virus

It depends? did the owner support Trump? Then, yes, ice that mother f•••er.

Instant Karma, baby.

It's funny, in a way, how deeply twisted your mind is, as demonstrated here.

In one post, you falsely accuse employers of being out to f••• their workers.

In the very next post, you call for workers to be f•••ed if you don't like their employers' politics.

Openly advocating, yourself, almost exactly the same thing of which you falsely accused others.

It's a sort of hypocrisy, doublethink, and psychological projection that is pretty much typical of you, but not usually demonstrated quite this vividly.

 

[Bob Blaylock]

Guy, we've never gotten out of a recession without massive government spending.

We got into them because of government. Or because government with its experiments causes a potential short down turn to become a long one. The Federal Reserve is owned by foreigners. But our politicians play their games with it. Frankly, the owners know that the United States now exists do to them.

A funny thing about LIbErals, is how often they think the cure for a disease is greater and greater dozes of the same poison that caused it in the first place.

Reagan had it exactly right when he stated that government is not the solution; government is the problem.

 

[sartre play]

Here's a funny one, its the same men saying you have no right to control what we do with our body's, that have been telling women that they have no rights in regards to control over their body's.