Welcome to tyranny.

[Natural Citizen]

What is the Supreme Court's purpose in Article 3, if not judicial review?

Article III does not give the courts veto power over the other two branches of government. That's the rub. The SCOTUS assumed that power on their own.

Congress has the ability to limit the jurisdiction of the SCOTUS.

Unfortunately, Congress has been derelict.

That's cliff notes, anyway.

As I'd mentioned, it's a topic worthy of separate discussion.

 

[Care4all]

Governors need to know that most people live week to week and no work means no money.

A very big part of the problem is that not one of the politicians who is responsible for this unwarranted panic and shutdown is in any danger of having to directly experience the consequences of it. Not one of them is ever going to have to worry about whether he'll be able to keep a roof over his head, or food on his table, or have his other material needs met. Not one of them is in danger of winding up homeless and starving in the streets. Not one of them understands or cares about the impact that the economic disaster that they have created will have on us “little people”.

agree the politicians will never experience those conditions...

But they didn't cause what is going on... a series of mistakes by the administration early on, caused this.....

-not being upfront and truthful early on
-minimizing the threat
-not having massive testing
-not identifying and quarantining the infected early on
-not contact tracing and quarantining those people also
-not securing PPE EARLY on, before those masks ran out
-giving away a 5 ton shipment of personal protective gear to China in January
And a number more of Murphy's law mistakes took place, focusing the spotlight on our gvt's lack of coordination or sense of urgency and lack of a cohesive and coordinated plan....

That caused businesses to close on their own... the NBA, and all sports venues, concerts cancelled, etc.... this was before many states put in shuttering rules

The stock market took huge drops before most gvts or the President got involved

Which started the PANIC.

 

[Seawytch]

That's how many people we lose a year for the flu, and we have shots for that. Remember his staff predicted possibly up to millions.

A YEAR. Not "over four weeks, doubling over the last week".

Yes, his staff warned him, he ignored the warnings and the Governors had to pick up the ball.

BUt not before 22 million people lost their jobs.

Actually we normally have 60,000 flu deaths a season or a cycle. They do not happen all year. This flu season with the Chinese flu is about normal. Democrats are completely responsible for the economic losses. They want to make it worse. Trump is fighting to open everything back up.

If that were true, he'd be making sure the states had more TESTS available.

So explain how he would do that with the CDC and FDA who held them up so badly at the beginning.

His FDA and his CDC? Kind of moot at this point. That's not the case now and there still isn't enough testing.

 

[Maxdeath]

I can see a reasonable "stay home" period, especially in cities where subway rides can mean an explosion in cases.
However, as long as masks are worn, and hand sanitizer used, that should safely allow people to work.
Governors need to know that most people live week to week and no work means no money.

You are ignoring the fact that millions and millions are collecting unemployment, that small businesses have been given money they won't have to pay back as long as they use the money to continue to pay their workers, that stimulus checks have already been delivered all over the country and that major banks have agreed not to foreclose on unpaid mortgages. The people are hurting, sure. Unemployment is not as much as a paycheck and the small businesses paying their staff have cut the hours they are covering.

Yes, for the economy's sake, we need to get things going. But it is not because everyone is penniless and starving.

You are right to a certain extent. People are not at this minute starving but if we continue with the lockdown that will change in very short order. Banks can not continue to forgive, rental owners can not continue to forgive, the government can not continue to place Trillions on its credit card. There has to be a point when no matter what we have to open.
People take a chance just from living, heart attack etc. you take a chance from getting in a car, from getting in a plane. People need to decide for themselves when the risk of loosing everything they have is worth the risk of going back to work.
Some even see the suspension of the bill of rights and the constitution as grounds for ending the lockdown.

People are in different positions in life. Yes, you take a chance by getting in a car, but if you drive a car totally drunk, your chances of getting in an accident rise considerably.

As for myself, while I understand the economic ramifications, I don't think the last couple of weeks will kill us. What will kill me is getting this virus, so my interest is seeing it wiped out ASAP. With my medical conditions, I'm that guy who's totally drunk getting behind the wheel of a car.

You do realize that even before this dempanic nonsense life was a crapshoot. At any given moment dozens of diseases are swirling around you. There are several different strains of influenza, TB, even diseases thought eradicated still have vestiges. If you were to look at your skin under a microscope you would see an overcrowded war zone.

The greatest danger doesn't come from this virus. The greatest danger comes from sanitizing yourself so much that the eternal war for your health and well being gets out of balance.

This virus is not much different than the flu. The major difference however is how fast it can spread.

I understand both sides of the argument. But I don't go outside unless I have to for food, beverage or medication. It's not fun as we all currently know. I don't know anybody here personally, but I'm willing to bet most of the "open up the economy" people are at low risk for death. You catch it, no big deal. You stay home for a few weeks and carry on with life.

Okay, so we do just that, we open up the economy. What's likely to happen? That flattened curve will no longer be flat, It will resume going upwards. But hey, at least people are back at work or continuing their life, right?

That's true, but it makes people like me have to live this isolated lifestyle for months and perhaps well over another year. Is that okay with you?

So lets turn that around just a little. Is it alright to take other people's house and car and savings away just so you aren't inconvenienced?
Is it ok to increase our national debt just so you aren't inconvenienced?

I think there can be a happy middle ground to this. I say keep it this way until there are easily enough N-95 masks for everybody. If the mask you wear isn't an N-95, it isn't providing adequate protection. It's only helping stop the spread of the virus if you have it.

Once again do you consider your needs above many others?

Not at all. I'm just thinking of what could work for everybody. Like I said, something in the middle. Hey, I have an IRA in the market too. My last statement said I lost around 25%. Not happy. What I want to see is to make sure our medical personnel are well protected, our first responders, and then people like myself who are at a high fatality risk get these masks. If I have some protection being that I live in an area with high infection rates, I'll be glad to wear a mask for a year or whenever to see this economy rip roaring again.

I understand we can't live like this until August. Too much economic damage to recover from.

Well I am at least glad you understand that we can't live with everyone hiding under the bed forever. But are you going to be upset because Florida is opening up now? Are you going to be crying that Texas will be by May?
I saw my IRA down also but I just stopped taking an out until it comes back.
The people I care about is the family with a house payment, a car payment and probably living paycheck to paycheck. The little bit they got in a stimulus check is not going to go far. So do we keep spending on the Feds credit card just little bits of money or do we force everyone of them to get use to shelters, breadlines and welfare?

As I was saying to Kyzr, unemployment with the federal contribution is pretty generous at this time. I'm sure there will be many people making more money sitting at home than they did working. So I'm really not concerned on how they pay their bills.

I'm not too worried about my IRA either. It's invested with a very fine company, and I have no immediate plans to use it. My real concern is that we don't have a relapse of this problem, only tenfold. Not only am I at high risk, both of my parents are in their late 80's, and they have plenty of medical problems themselves. The more people in my environment that has this thing, the higher risk of me or a member of my family catching it.


The President and our Governors are having to perform a balancing act. There is no right or wrong decision here. If we move too fast, that could be devastating to our health. If we move too slow, it may be devastating to our economy. I feel for those leaders right now. No matter what they decide, you can't blame them one way or the other.

I also feel that this debt should be repaid by all of us once we get things back on track. I think we should have a federal consumption tax until everything we are spending on today slowly gets paid back tomorrow. Say ten cents on every dollar spent. Yes, it will take quite a bit of time to repay it, but I think it's something we need to do in order to secure our financial future.

Let’s not forget that you said that you would not work if you could receive enough money from “welfare”. That’s you. A “conservative”.

You project.

Do you think I haven't seen this before? I've lived through several recessions; two major ones. I know how people not working feel about staying on unemployment if they can make ends meet that way. I've seen people stay on it until it's very last day. I've seen people on it and working under the table for cash.

A late friend of mine worked at the steel mills. When he got laid off, the union paid him 90% of his pay, he was still able to collect unemployment since the government and unions are both criminals, and he worked under the table. He used to laugh telling me how he was making so much more money not working than working. He waited until the mills sent him a letter to return to work because he would never answer the phone if he knew it was them calling.

I'm glad you think that "most" Americans don't think like that, but to your chagrin, they do. Don't believe me, just look at the food stamp growth under DumBama, when supposedly, he got the economy going again. It wasn't until the Republican Governors started to make requirements that those people started to drop out of the program.

I could be wrong but I hear people saying they want to go back to work so I make the assumption that they are telling each other the truth.
Every time I hear people complain about something during this time I can't help but think about history.
I wonder how many would have made it when we had polio, the Spanish flu or any of the other things that we have had over history.
I can't help but think of how many would have made it out of the boats during DDay.
I can't help but wonder how many could have survived when milk, meat, and almost everything else was rationed.
Then I wonder if the generations now have enough cereal and milk or toilet paper.
I remember families sending sons and fathers off to war before we had instant communication, before we had correspondents on the battlefield. They knew that they may not hear from them for weeks or months. Sometimes people were notified of a son or fathers death and days later get a letter from them.
Now I wonder how people get by with only emails, phone calls, video chat.

My father likes to tell stories about his pathetic childhood. He and his five siblings grew up in a house about the size of a three car garage. They were on welfare, but welfare back then meant the kids pulling their red wagon to the fire station five miles down the road. There, the firemen would fill up their wagon with fruits and vegetables.

When they wanted a real treat, they walked 15 miles to the next city. They knew a woman that would make them peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. They had to eat their sandwiches behind her garage. If my grandfather found out they were begging, he would beat the hell out of them.

They had no natural gas, propane heat or plumbing. In the winters, which can be pretty brutal up north, they had to use the outhouse in the backyard. With a family of seven, that hole filled up pretty quickly. It didn't even have a roof on it.

My father jokes that he joined the US Marines so he could finally know what it felt like to have three square meals a day. Of course, when you're in a bloodbath in a place like Korea, you burn off that food pretty quick.

Today, the government is asking that we sit home in front of our big screen, get paid well, watch our 400 cable or satellite television channels, and fool around on this internet to no end. Now we think that's too much to ask of citizens today to stop a pandemic. It's just more suffering that we can handle, and it's only been a few weeks.

The thing that most people don't see is that we may never recover from this. States like New York, California and Washington are spending money that they don't have and will never have. Thanks to business being closed and people not working taxes are not there to collect. Even the hidden taxes on things like gasoline is going to be substantially down. Even small population states like Wyoming that relies on tourism is going to suffer. So even if we were to bring back the economy in the next few months to what it was before the virus, which is very unlikely it won't save some states.
Add that on to the fact that the small business loans have dried up and no more money has been forth coming to replenish it, thanks in large part to Pelosi, we may see small businesses die out. Which means jobs dying with them. That will mean more unemployment. That will mean more strain on the states and less taxes coming in.
I see tax heavy states trying to up taxes. I don't see that sitting very well with the people living there.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I can see a reasonable "stay home" period, especially in cities where subway rides can mean an explosion in cases.
However, as long as masks are worn, and hand sanitizer used, that should safely allow people to work.
Governors need to know that most people live week to week and no work means no money.

You are ignoring the fact that millions and millions are collecting unemployment, that small businesses have been given money they won't have to pay back as long as they use the money to continue to pay their workers, that stimulus checks have already been delivered all over the country and that major banks have agreed not to foreclose on unpaid mortgages. The people are hurting, sure. Unemployment is not as much as a paycheck and the small businesses paying their staff have cut the hours they are covering.

Yes, for the economy's sake, we need to get things going. But it is not because everyone is penniless and starving.

You are right to a certain extent. People are not at this minute starving but if we continue with the lockdown that will change in very short order. Banks can not continue to forgive, rental owners can not continue to forgive, the government can not continue to place Trillions on its credit card. There has to be a point when no matter what we have to open.
People take a chance just from living, heart attack etc. you take a chance from getting in a car, from getting in a plane. People need to decide for themselves when the risk of loosing everything they have is worth the risk of going back to work.
Some even see the suspension of the bill of rights and the constitution as grounds for ending the lockdown.

People are in different positions in life. Yes, you take a chance by getting in a car, but if you drive a car totally drunk, your chances of getting in an accident rise considerably.

As for myself, while I understand the economic ramifications, I don't think the last couple of weeks will kill us. What will kill me is getting this virus, so my interest is seeing it wiped out ASAP. With my medical conditions, I'm that guy who's totally drunk getting behind the wheel of a car.

You do realize that even before this dempanic nonsense life was a crapshoot. At any given moment dozens of diseases are swirling around you. There are several different strains of influenza, TB, even diseases thought eradicated still have vestiges. If you were to look at your skin under a microscope you would see an overcrowded war zone.

The greatest danger doesn't come from this virus. The greatest danger comes from sanitizing yourself so much that the eternal war for your health and well being gets out of balance.

This virus is not much different than the flu. The major difference however is how fast it can spread.

I understand both sides of the argument. But I don't go outside unless I have to for food, beverage or medication. It's not fun as we all currently know. I don't know anybody here personally, but I'm willing to bet most of the "open up the economy" people are at low risk for death. You catch it, no big deal. You stay home for a few weeks and carry on with life.

Okay, so we do just that, we open up the economy. What's likely to happen? That flattened curve will no longer be flat, It will resume going upwards. But hey, at least people are back at work or continuing their life, right?

That's true, but it makes people like me have to live this isolated lifestyle for months and perhaps well over another year. Is that okay with you?

So lets turn that around just a little. Is it alright to take other people's house and car and savings away just so you aren't inconvenienced?
Is it ok to increase our national debt just so you aren't inconvenienced?

I think there can be a happy middle ground to this. I say keep it this way until there are easily enough N-95 masks for everybody. If the mask you wear isn't an N-95, it isn't providing adequate protection. It's only helping stop the spread of the virus if you have it.

Once again do you consider your needs above many others?

Not at all. I'm just thinking of what could work for everybody. Like I said, something in the middle. Hey, I have an IRA in the market too. My last statement said I lost around 25%. Not happy. What I want to see is to make sure our medical personnel are well protected, our first responders, and then people like myself who are at a high fatality risk get these masks. If I have some protection being that I live in an area with high infection rates, I'll be glad to wear a mask for a year or whenever to see this economy rip roaring again.

I understand we can't live like this until August. Too much economic damage to recover from.

Well I am at least glad you understand that we can't live with everyone hiding under the bed forever. But are you going to be upset because Florida is opening up now? Are you going to be crying that Texas will be by May?
I saw my IRA down also but I just stopped taking an out until it comes back.
The people I care about is the family with a house payment, a car payment and probably living paycheck to paycheck. The little bit they got in a stimulus check is not going to go far. So do we keep spending on the Feds credit card just little bits of money or do we force everyone of them to get use to shelters, breadlines and welfare?

As I was saying to Kyzr, unemployment with the federal contribution is pretty generous at this time. I'm sure there will be many people making more money sitting at home than they did working. So I'm really not concerned on how they pay their bills.

I'm not too worried about my IRA either. It's invested with a very fine company, and I have no immediate plans to use it. My real concern is that we don't have a relapse of this problem, only tenfold. Not only am I at high risk, both of my parents are in their late 80's, and they have plenty of medical problems themselves. The more people in my environment that has this thing, the higher risk of me or a member of my family catching it.


The President and our Governors are having to perform a balancing act. There is no right or wrong decision here. If we move too fast, that could be devastating to our health. If we move too slow, it may be devastating to our economy. I feel for those leaders right now. No matter what they decide, you can't blame them one way or the other.

I also feel that this debt should be repaid by all of us once we get things back on track. I think we should have a federal consumption tax until everything we are spending on today slowly gets paid back tomorrow. Say ten cents on every dollar spent. Yes, it will take quite a bit of time to repay it, but I think it's something we need to do in order to secure our financial future.

Let’s not forget that you said that you would not work if you could receive enough money from “welfare”. That’s you. A “conservative”.

You project.

Do you think I haven't seen this before? I've lived through several recessions; two major ones. I know how people not working feel about staying on unemployment if they can make ends meet that way. I've seen people stay on it until it's very last day. I've seen people on it and working under the table for cash.

A late friend of mine worked at the steel mills. When he got laid off, the union paid him 90% of his pay, he was still able to collect unemployment since the government and unions are both criminals, and he worked under the table. He used to laugh telling me how he was making so much more money not working than working. He waited until the mills sent him a letter to return to work because he would never answer the phone if he knew it was them calling.

I'm glad you think that "most" Americans don't think like that, but to your chagrin, they do. Don't believe me, just look at the food stamp growth under DumBama, when supposedly, he got the economy going again. It wasn't until the Republican Governors started to make requirements that those people started to drop out of the program.

I could be wrong but I hear people saying they want to go back to work so I make the assumption that they are telling each other the truth.
Every time I hear people complain about something during this time I can't help but think about history.
I wonder how many would have made it when we had polio, the Spanish flu or any of the other things that we have had over history.
I can't help but think of how many would have made it out of the boats during DDay.
I can't help but wonder how many could have survived when milk, meat, and almost everything else was rationed.
Then I wonder if the generations now have enough cereal and milk or toilet paper.
I remember families sending sons and fathers off to war before we had instant communication, before we had correspondents on the battlefield. They knew that they may not hear from them for weeks or months. Sometimes people were notified of a son or fathers death and days later get a letter from them.
Now I wonder how people get by with only emails, phone calls, video chat.

My father likes to tell stories about his pathetic childhood. He and his five siblings grew up in a house about the size of a three car garage. They were on welfare, but welfare back then meant the kids pulling their red wagon to the fire station five miles down the road. There, the firemen would fill up their wagon with fruits and vegetables.

When they wanted a real treat, they walked 15 miles to the next city. They knew a woman that would make them peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. They had to eat their sandwiches behind her garage. If my grandfather found out they were begging, he would beat the hell out of them.

They had no natural gas, propane heat or plumbing. In the winters, which can be pretty brutal up north, they had to use the outhouse in the backyard. With a family of seven, that hole filled up pretty quickly. It didn't even have a roof on it.

My father jokes that he joined the US Marines so he could finally know what it felt like to have three square meals a day. Of course, when you're in a bloodbath in a place like Korea, you burn off that food pretty quick.

Today, the government is asking that we sit home in front of our big screen, get paid well, watch our 400 cable or satellite television channels, and fool around on this internet to no end. Now we think that's too much to ask of citizens today to stop a pandemic. It's just more suffering that we can handle, and it's only been a few weeks.

The thing that most people don't see is that we may never recover from this. States like New York, California and Washington are spending money that they don't have and will never have. Thanks to business being closed and people not working taxes are not there to collect. Even the hidden taxes on things like gasoline is going to be substantially down. Even small population states like Wyoming that relies on tourism is going to suffer. So even if we were to bring back the economy in the next few months to what it was before the virus, which is very unlikely it won't save some states.
Add that on to the fact that the small business loans have dried up and no more money has been forth coming to replenish it, thanks in large part to Pelosi, we may see small businesses die out. Which means jobs dying with them. That will mean more unemployment. That will mean more strain on the states and less taxes coming in.
I see tax heavy states trying to up taxes. I don't see that sitting very well with the people living there.

How much did adding that throwaway BS line about Pelosi soothe your butthurt?

NY, California and Washington are states which actually contribute to the nation’s economy and federal revenues. They put in more than they take out.

The idea that they are in worse shape than the shithole red states who suck the federal coffers dry is humorous. The reason these states are the place where the virus has taken hold is the same one that makes these states so valuable. There is massive economic activity there. They’re the engine that runs our economy.

 

[eagle1462010]

Another day.......more BS..........typical and expected.

 

[Maxdeath]

I can see a reasonable "stay home" period, especially in cities where subway rides can mean an explosion in cases.
However, as long as masks are worn, and hand sanitizer used, that should safely allow people to work.
Governors need to know that most people live week to week and no work means no money.

You are ignoring the fact that millions and millions are collecting unemployment, that small businesses have been given money they won't have to pay back as long as they use the money to continue to pay their workers, that stimulus checks have already been delivered all over the country and that major banks have agreed not to foreclose on unpaid mortgages. The people are hurting, sure. Unemployment is not as much as a paycheck and the small businesses paying their staff have cut the hours they are covering.

Yes, for the economy's sake, we need to get things going. But it is not because everyone is penniless and starving.

You are right to a certain extent. People are not at this minute starving but if we continue with the lockdown that will change in very short order. Banks can not continue to forgive, rental owners can not continue to forgive, the government can not continue to place Trillions on its credit card. There has to be a point when no matter what we have to open.
People take a chance just from living, heart attack etc. you take a chance from getting in a car, from getting in a plane. People need to decide for themselves when the risk of loosing everything they have is worth the risk of going back to work.
Some even see the suspension of the bill of rights and the constitution as grounds for ending the lockdown.

People are in different positions in life. Yes, you take a chance by getting in a car, but if you drive a car totally drunk, your chances of getting in an accident rise considerably.

As for myself, while I understand the economic ramifications, I don't think the last couple of weeks will kill us. What will kill me is getting this virus, so my interest is seeing it wiped out ASAP. With my medical conditions, I'm that guy who's totally drunk getting behind the wheel of a car.

You do realize that even before this dempanic nonsense life was a crapshoot. At any given moment dozens of diseases are swirling around you. There are several different strains of influenza, TB, even diseases thought eradicated still have vestiges. If you were to look at your skin under a microscope you would see an overcrowded war zone.

The greatest danger doesn't come from this virus. The greatest danger comes from sanitizing yourself so much that the eternal war for your health and well being gets out of balance.

This virus is not much different than the flu. The major difference however is how fast it can spread.

I understand both sides of the argument. But I don't go outside unless I have to for food, beverage or medication. It's not fun as we all currently know. I don't know anybody here personally, but I'm willing to bet most of the "open up the economy" people are at low risk for death. You catch it, no big deal. You stay home for a few weeks and carry on with life.

Okay, so we do just that, we open up the economy. What's likely to happen? That flattened curve will no longer be flat, It will resume going upwards. But hey, at least people are back at work or continuing their life, right?

That's true, but it makes people like me have to live this isolated lifestyle for months and perhaps well over another year. Is that okay with you?

So lets turn that around just a little. Is it alright to take other people's house and car and savings away just so you aren't inconvenienced?
Is it ok to increase our national debt just so you aren't inconvenienced?

I think there can be a happy middle ground to this. I say keep it this way until there are easily enough N-95 masks for everybody. If the mask you wear isn't an N-95, it isn't providing adequate protection. It's only helping stop the spread of the virus if you have it.

Once again do you consider your needs above many others?

Not at all. I'm just thinking of what could work for everybody. Like I said, something in the middle. Hey, I have an IRA in the market too. My last statement said I lost around 25%. Not happy. What I want to see is to make sure our medical personnel are well protected, our first responders, and then people like myself who are at a high fatality risk get these masks. If I have some protection being that I live in an area with high infection rates, I'll be glad to wear a mask for a year or whenever to see this economy rip roaring again.

I understand we can't live like this until August. Too much economic damage to recover from.

Well I am at least glad you understand that we can't live with everyone hiding under the bed forever. But are you going to be upset because Florida is opening up now? Are you going to be crying that Texas will be by May?
I saw my IRA down also but I just stopped taking an out until it comes back.
The people I care about is the family with a house payment, a car payment and probably living paycheck to paycheck. The little bit they got in a stimulus check is not going to go far. So do we keep spending on the Feds credit card just little bits of money or do we force everyone of them to get use to shelters, breadlines and welfare?

As I was saying to Kyzr, unemployment with the federal contribution is pretty generous at this time. I'm sure there will be many people making more money sitting at home than they did working. So I'm really not concerned on how they pay their bills.

I'm not too worried about my IRA either. It's invested with a very fine company, and I have no immediate plans to use it. My real concern is that we don't have a relapse of this problem, only tenfold. Not only am I at high risk, both of my parents are in their late 80's, and they have plenty of medical problems themselves. The more people in my environment that has this thing, the higher risk of me or a member of my family catching it.


The President and our Governors are having to perform a balancing act. There is no right or wrong decision here. If we move too fast, that could be devastating to our health. If we move too slow, it may be devastating to our economy. I feel for those leaders right now. No matter what they decide, you can't blame them one way or the other.

I also feel that this debt should be repaid by all of us once we get things back on track. I think we should have a federal consumption tax until everything we are spending on today slowly gets paid back tomorrow. Say ten cents on every dollar spent. Yes, it will take quite a bit of time to repay it, but I think it's something we need to do in order to secure our financial future.

Let’s not forget that you said that you would not work if you could receive enough money from “welfare”. That’s you. A “conservative”.

You project.

Do you think I haven't seen this before? I've lived through several recessions; two major ones. I know how people not working feel about staying on unemployment if they can make ends meet that way. I've seen people stay on it until it's very last day. I've seen people on it and working under the table for cash.

A late friend of mine worked at the steel mills. When he got laid off, the union paid him 90% of his pay, he was still able to collect unemployment since the government and unions are both criminals, and he worked under the table. He used to laugh telling me how he was making so much more money not working than working. He waited until the mills sent him a letter to return to work because he would never answer the phone if he knew it was them calling.

I'm glad you think that "most" Americans don't think like that, but to your chagrin, they do. Don't believe me, just look at the food stamp growth under DumBama, when supposedly, he got the economy going again. It wasn't until the Republican Governors started to make requirements that those people started to drop out of the program.

I could be wrong but I hear people saying they want to go back to work so I make the assumption that they are telling each other the truth.
Every time I hear people complain about something during this time I can't help but think about history.
I wonder how many would have made it when we had polio, the Spanish flu or any of the other things that we have had over history.
I can't help but think of how many would have made it out of the boats during DDay.
I can't help but wonder how many could have survived when milk, meat, and almost everything else was rationed.
Then I wonder if the generations now have enough cereal and milk or toilet paper.
I remember families sending sons and fathers off to war before we had instant communication, before we had correspondents on the battlefield. They knew that they may not hear from them for weeks or months. Sometimes people were notified of a son or fathers death and days later get a letter from them.
Now I wonder how people get by with only emails, phone calls, video chat.

My father likes to tell stories about his pathetic childhood. He and his five siblings grew up in a house about the size of a three car garage. They were on welfare, but welfare back then meant the kids pulling their red wagon to the fire station five miles down the road. There, the firemen would fill up their wagon with fruits and vegetables.

When they wanted a real treat, they walked 15 miles to the next city. They knew a woman that would make them peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. They had to eat their sandwiches behind her garage. If my grandfather found out they were begging, he would beat the hell out of them.

They had no natural gas, propane heat or plumbing. In the winters, which can be pretty brutal up north, they had to use the outhouse in the backyard. With a family of seven, that hole filled up pretty quickly. It didn't even have a roof on it.

My father jokes that he joined the US Marines so he could finally know what it felt like to have three square meals a day. Of course, when you're in a bloodbath in a place like Korea, you burn off that food pretty quick.

Today, the government is asking that we sit home in front of our big screen, get paid well, watch our 400 cable or satellite television channels, and fool around on this internet to no end. Now we think that's too much to ask of citizens today to stop a pandemic. It's just more suffering that we can handle, and it's only been a few weeks.

The thing that most people don't see is that we may never recover from this. States like New York, California and Washington are spending money that they don't have and will never have. Thanks to business being closed and people not working taxes are not there to collect. Even the hidden taxes on things like gasoline is going to be substantially down. Even small population states like Wyoming that relies on tourism is going to suffer. So even if we were to bring back the economy in the next few months to what it was before the virus, which is very unlikely it won't save some states.
Add that on to the fact that the small business loans have dried up and no more money has been forth coming to replenish it, thanks in large part to Pelosi, we may see small businesses die out. Which means jobs dying with them. That will mean more unemployment. That will mean more strain on the states and less taxes coming in.
I see tax heavy states trying to up taxes. I don't see that sitting very well with the people living there.

How much did adding that throwaway BS line about Pelosi soothe your butthurt?

NY, California and Washington are states which actually contribute to the nation’s economy and federal revenues. They put in more than they take out.

The idea that they are in worse shape than the shithole red states who suck the federal coffers dry is humorous. The reason these states are the place where the virus has taken hold is the same one that makes these states so valuable. There is massive economic activity there. They’re the engine that runs our economy.

Roflol. Got to love the crazy. So you are saying that Pelosi is not holding up the funding? Or are you just upset?
I hate to dissalusion you but no one was talking about the Feds. I was talking about the state level. I know it is hard to understand the diffrence when you just want to rant nonsense.

So show me where states spending so much on healthcare and not receiving taxes is going to help their economy.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I can see a reasonable "stay home" period, especially in cities where subway rides can mean an explosion in cases.
However, as long as masks are worn, and hand sanitizer used, that should safely allow people to work.
Governors need to know that most people live week to week and no work means no money.

You are ignoring the fact that millions and millions are collecting unemployment, that small businesses have been given money they won't have to pay back as long as they use the money to continue to pay their workers, that stimulus checks have already been delivered all over the country and that major banks have agreed not to foreclose on unpaid mortgages. The people are hurting, sure. Unemployment is not as much as a paycheck and the small businesses paying their staff have cut the hours they are covering.

Yes, for the economy's sake, we need to get things going. But it is not because everyone is penniless and starving.

You are right to a certain extent. People are not at this minute starving but if we continue with the lockdown that will change in very short order. Banks can not continue to forgive, rental owners can not continue to forgive, the government can not continue to place Trillions on its credit card. There has to be a point when no matter what we have to open.
People take a chance just from living, heart attack etc. you take a chance from getting in a car, from getting in a plane. People need to decide for themselves when the risk of loosing everything they have is worth the risk of going back to work.
Some even see the suspension of the bill of rights and the constitution as grounds for ending the lockdown.

People are in different positions in life. Yes, you take a chance by getting in a car, but if you drive a car totally drunk, your chances of getting in an accident rise considerably.

As for myself, while I understand the economic ramifications, I don't think the last couple of weeks will kill us. What will kill me is getting this virus, so my interest is seeing it wiped out ASAP. With my medical conditions, I'm that guy who's totally drunk getting behind the wheel of a car.

You do realize that even before this dempanic nonsense life was a crapshoot. At any given moment dozens of diseases are swirling around you. There are several different strains of influenza, TB, even diseases thought eradicated still have vestiges. If you were to look at your skin under a microscope you would see an overcrowded war zone.

The greatest danger doesn't come from this virus. The greatest danger comes from sanitizing yourself so much that the eternal war for your health and well being gets out of balance.

This virus is not much different than the flu. The major difference however is how fast it can spread.

I understand both sides of the argument. But I don't go outside unless I have to for food, beverage or medication. It's not fun as we all currently know. I don't know anybody here personally, but I'm willing to bet most of the "open up the economy" people are at low risk for death. You catch it, no big deal. You stay home for a few weeks and carry on with life.

Okay, so we do just that, we open up the economy. What's likely to happen? That flattened curve will no longer be flat, It will resume going upwards. But hey, at least people are back at work or continuing their life, right?

That's true, but it makes people like me have to live this isolated lifestyle for months and perhaps well over another year. Is that okay with you?

So lets turn that around just a little. Is it alright to take other people's house and car and savings away just so you aren't inconvenienced?
Is it ok to increase our national debt just so you aren't inconvenienced?

I think there can be a happy middle ground to this. I say keep it this way until there are easily enough N-95 masks for everybody. If the mask you wear isn't an N-95, it isn't providing adequate protection. It's only helping stop the spread of the virus if you have it.

Once again do you consider your needs above many others?

Not at all. I'm just thinking of what could work for everybody. Like I said, something in the middle. Hey, I have an IRA in the market too. My last statement said I lost around 25%. Not happy. What I want to see is to make sure our medical personnel are well protected, our first responders, and then people like myself who are at a high fatality risk get these masks. If I have some protection being that I live in an area with high infection rates, I'll be glad to wear a mask for a year or whenever to see this economy rip roaring again.

I understand we can't live like this until August. Too much economic damage to recover from.

Well I am at least glad you understand that we can't live with everyone hiding under the bed forever. But are you going to be upset because Florida is opening up now? Are you going to be crying that Texas will be by May?
I saw my IRA down also but I just stopped taking an out until it comes back.
The people I care about is the family with a house payment, a car payment and probably living paycheck to paycheck. The little bit they got in a stimulus check is not going to go far. So do we keep spending on the Feds credit card just little bits of money or do we force everyone of them to get use to shelters, breadlines and welfare?

As I was saying to Kyzr, unemployment with the federal contribution is pretty generous at this time. I'm sure there will be many people making more money sitting at home than they did working. So I'm really not concerned on how they pay their bills.

I'm not too worried about my IRA either. It's invested with a very fine company, and I have no immediate plans to use it. My real concern is that we don't have a relapse of this problem, only tenfold. Not only am I at high risk, both of my parents are in their late 80's, and they have plenty of medical problems themselves. The more people in my environment that has this thing, the higher risk of me or a member of my family catching it.


The President and our Governors are having to perform a balancing act. There is no right or wrong decision here. If we move too fast, that could be devastating to our health. If we move too slow, it may be devastating to our economy. I feel for those leaders right now. No matter what they decide, you can't blame them one way or the other.

I also feel that this debt should be repaid by all of us once we get things back on track. I think we should have a federal consumption tax until everything we are spending on today slowly gets paid back tomorrow. Say ten cents on every dollar spent. Yes, it will take quite a bit of time to repay it, but I think it's something we need to do in order to secure our financial future.

Let’s not forget that you said that you would not work if you could receive enough money from “welfare”. That’s you. A “conservative”.

You project.

Do you think I haven't seen this before? I've lived through several recessions; two major ones. I know how people not working feel about staying on unemployment if they can make ends meet that way. I've seen people stay on it until it's very last day. I've seen people on it and working under the table for cash.

A late friend of mine worked at the steel mills. When he got laid off, the union paid him 90% of his pay, he was still able to collect unemployment since the government and unions are both criminals, and he worked under the table. He used to laugh telling me how he was making so much more money not working than working. He waited until the mills sent him a letter to return to work because he would never answer the phone if he knew it was them calling.

I'm glad you think that "most" Americans don't think like that, but to your chagrin, they do. Don't believe me, just look at the food stamp growth under DumBama, when supposedly, he got the economy going again. It wasn't until the Republican Governors started to make requirements that those people started to drop out of the program.

I could be wrong but I hear people saying they want to go back to work so I make the assumption that they are telling each other the truth.
Every time I hear people complain about something during this time I can't help but think about history.
I wonder how many would have made it when we had polio, the Spanish flu or any of the other things that we have had over history.
I can't help but think of how many would have made it out of the boats during DDay.
I can't help but wonder how many could have survived when milk, meat, and almost everything else was rationed.
Then I wonder if the generations now have enough cereal and milk or toilet paper.
I remember families sending sons and fathers off to war before we had instant communication, before we had correspondents on the battlefield. They knew that they may not hear from them for weeks or months. Sometimes people were notified of a son or fathers death and days later get a letter from them.
Now I wonder how people get by with only emails, phone calls, video chat.

My father likes to tell stories about his pathetic childhood. He and his five siblings grew up in a house about the size of a three car garage. They were on welfare, but welfare back then meant the kids pulling their red wagon to the fire station five miles down the road. There, the firemen would fill up their wagon with fruits and vegetables.

When they wanted a real treat, they walked 15 miles to the next city. They knew a woman that would make them peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. They had to eat their sandwiches behind her garage. If my grandfather found out they were begging, he would beat the hell out of them.

They had no natural gas, propane heat or plumbing. In the winters, which can be pretty brutal up north, they had to use the outhouse in the backyard. With a family of seven, that hole filled up pretty quickly. It didn't even have a roof on it.

My father jokes that he joined the US Marines so he could finally know what it felt like to have three square meals a day. Of course, when you're in a bloodbath in a place like Korea, you burn off that food pretty quick.

Today, the government is asking that we sit home in front of our big screen, get paid well, watch our 400 cable or satellite television channels, and fool around on this internet to no end. Now we think that's too much to ask of citizens today to stop a pandemic. It's just more suffering that we can handle, and it's only been a few weeks.

The thing that most people don't see is that we may never recover from this. States like New York, California and Washington are spending money that they don't have and will never have. Thanks to business being closed and people not working taxes are not there to collect. Even the hidden taxes on things like gasoline is going to be substantially down. Even small population states like Wyoming that relies on tourism is going to suffer. So even if we were to bring back the economy in the next few months to what it was before the virus, which is very unlikely it won't save some states.
Add that on to the fact that the small business loans have dried up and no more money has been forth coming to replenish it, thanks in large part to Pelosi, we may see small businesses die out. Which means jobs dying with them. That will mean more unemployment. That will mean more strain on the states and less taxes coming in.
I see tax heavy states trying to up taxes. I don't see that sitting very well with the people living there.

How much did adding that throwaway BS line about Pelosi soothe your butthurt?

NY, California and Washington are states which actually contribute to the nation’s economy and federal revenues. They put in more than they take out.

The idea that they are in worse shape than the shithole red states who suck the federal coffers dry is humorous. The reason these states are the place where the virus has taken hold is the same one that makes these states so valuable. There is massive economic activity there. They’re the engine that runs our economy.

Roflol. Got to love the crazy. So you are saying that Pelosi is not holding up the funding? Or are you just upset?
I hate to dissalusion you but no one was talking about the Feds. I was talking about the state level. I know it is hard to understand the diffrence when you just want to rant nonsense.

So show me where states spending so much on healthcare and not receiving taxes is going to help their economy.

Dumbass. The reason the bill is being held up is because there is no money in it for states to use to keep operating their healthcare programs.

It has nothing to do with Pelosi not helping small businesses. It has to do with Trump being butthurt over some governors holding him to account.

 

[Maxdeath]

I can see a reasonable "stay home" period, especially in cities where subway rides can mean an explosion in cases.
However, as long as masks are worn, and hand sanitizer used, that should safely allow people to work.
Governors need to know that most people live week to week and no work means no money.

You are ignoring the fact that millions and millions are collecting unemployment, that small businesses have been given money they won't have to pay back as long as they use the money to continue to pay their workers, that stimulus checks have already been delivered all over the country and that major banks have agreed not to foreclose on unpaid mortgages. The people are hurting, sure. Unemployment is not as much as a paycheck and the small businesses paying their staff have cut the hours they are covering.

Yes, for the economy's sake, we need to get things going. But it is not because everyone is penniless and starving.

You are right to a certain extent. People are not at this minute starving but if we continue with the lockdown that will change in very short order. Banks can not continue to forgive, rental owners can not continue to forgive, the government can not continue to place Trillions on its credit card. There has to be a point when no matter what we have to open.
People take a chance just from living, heart attack etc. you take a chance from getting in a car, from getting in a plane. People need to decide for themselves when the risk of loosing everything they have is worth the risk of going back to work.
Some even see the suspension of the bill of rights and the constitution as grounds for ending the lockdown.

People are in different positions in life. Yes, you take a chance by getting in a car, but if you drive a car totally drunk, your chances of getting in an accident rise considerably.

As for myself, while I understand the economic ramifications, I don't think the last couple of weeks will kill us. What will kill me is getting this virus, so my interest is seeing it wiped out ASAP. With my medical conditions, I'm that guy who's totally drunk getting behind the wheel of a car.

You do realize that even before this dempanic nonsense life was a crapshoot. At any given moment dozens of diseases are swirling around you. There are several different strains of influenza, TB, even diseases thought eradicated still have vestiges. If you were to look at your skin under a microscope you would see an overcrowded war zone.

The greatest danger doesn't come from this virus. The greatest danger comes from sanitizing yourself so much that the eternal war for your health and well being gets out of balance.

This virus is not much different than the flu. The major difference however is how fast it can spread.

I understand both sides of the argument. But I don't go outside unless I have to for food, beverage or medication. It's not fun as we all currently know. I don't know anybody here personally, but I'm willing to bet most of the "open up the economy" people are at low risk for death. You catch it, no big deal. You stay home for a few weeks and carry on with life.

Okay, so we do just that, we open up the economy. What's likely to happen? That flattened curve will no longer be flat, It will resume going upwards. But hey, at least people are back at work or continuing their life, right?

That's true, but it makes people like me have to live this isolated lifestyle for months and perhaps well over another year. Is that okay with you?

So lets turn that around just a little. Is it alright to take other people's house and car and savings away just so you aren't inconvenienced?
Is it ok to increase our national debt just so you aren't inconvenienced?

I think there can be a happy middle ground to this. I say keep it this way until there are easily enough N-95 masks for everybody. If the mask you wear isn't an N-95, it isn't providing adequate protection. It's only helping stop the spread of the virus if you have it.

Once again do you consider your needs above many others?

Not at all. I'm just thinking of what could work for everybody. Like I said, something in the middle. Hey, I have an IRA in the market too. My last statement said I lost around 25%. Not happy. What I want to see is to make sure our medical personnel are well protected, our first responders, and then people like myself who are at a high fatality risk get these masks. If I have some protection being that I live in an area with high infection rates, I'll be glad to wear a mask for a year or whenever to see this economy rip roaring again.

I understand we can't live like this until August. Too much economic damage to recover from.

Well I am at least glad you understand that we can't live with everyone hiding under the bed forever. But are you going to be upset because Florida is opening up now? Are you going to be crying that Texas will be by May?
I saw my IRA down also but I just stopped taking an out until it comes back.
The people I care about is the family with a house payment, a car payment and probably living paycheck to paycheck. The little bit they got in a stimulus check is not going to go far. So do we keep spending on the Feds credit card just little bits of money or do we force everyone of them to get use to shelters, breadlines and welfare?

As I was saying to Kyzr, unemployment with the federal contribution is pretty generous at this time. I'm sure there will be many people making more money sitting at home than they did working. So I'm really not concerned on how they pay their bills.

I'm not too worried about my IRA either. It's invested with a very fine company, and I have no immediate plans to use it. My real concern is that we don't have a relapse of this problem, only tenfold. Not only am I at high risk, both of my parents are in their late 80's, and they have plenty of medical problems themselves. The more people in my environment that has this thing, the higher risk of me or a member of my family catching it.


The President and our Governors are having to perform a balancing act. There is no right or wrong decision here. If we move too fast, that could be devastating to our health. If we move too slow, it may be devastating to our economy. I feel for those leaders right now. No matter what they decide, you can't blame them one way or the other.

I also feel that this debt should be repaid by all of us once we get things back on track. I think we should have a federal consumption tax until everything we are spending on today slowly gets paid back tomorrow. Say ten cents on every dollar spent. Yes, it will take quite a bit of time to repay it, but I think it's something we need to do in order to secure our financial future.

Let’s not forget that you said that you would not work if you could receive enough money from “welfare”. That’s you. A “conservative”.

You project.

Do you think I haven't seen this before? I've lived through several recessions; two major ones. I know how people not working feel about staying on unemployment if they can make ends meet that way. I've seen people stay on it until it's very last day. I've seen people on it and working under the table for cash.

A late friend of mine worked at the steel mills. When he got laid off, the union paid him 90% of his pay, he was still able to collect unemployment since the government and unions are both criminals, and he worked under the table. He used to laugh telling me how he was making so much more money not working than working. He waited until the mills sent him a letter to return to work because he would never answer the phone if he knew it was them calling.

I'm glad you think that "most" Americans don't think like that, but to your chagrin, they do. Don't believe me, just look at the food stamp growth under DumBama, when supposedly, he got the economy going again. It wasn't until the Republican Governors started to make requirements that those people started to drop out of the program.

I could be wrong but I hear people saying they want to go back to work so I make the assumption that they are telling each other the truth.
Every time I hear people complain about something during this time I can't help but think about history.
I wonder how many would have made it when we had polio, the Spanish flu or any of the other things that we have had over history.
I can't help but think of how many would have made it out of the boats during DDay.
I can't help but wonder how many could have survived when milk, meat, and almost everything else was rationed.
Then I wonder if the generations now have enough cereal and milk or toilet paper.
I remember families sending sons and fathers off to war before we had instant communication, before we had correspondents on the battlefield. They knew that they may not hear from them for weeks or months. Sometimes people were notified of a son or fathers death and days later get a letter from them.
Now I wonder how people get by with only emails, phone calls, video chat.

My father likes to tell stories about his pathetic childhood. He and his five siblings grew up in a house about the size of a three car garage. They were on welfare, but welfare back then meant the kids pulling their red wagon to the fire station five miles down the road. There, the firemen would fill up their wagon with fruits and vegetables.

When they wanted a real treat, they walked 15 miles to the next city. They knew a woman that would make them peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. They had to eat their sandwiches behind her garage. If my grandfather found out they were begging, he would beat the hell out of them.

They had no natural gas, propane heat or plumbing. In the winters, which can be pretty brutal up north, they had to use the outhouse in the backyard. With a family of seven, that hole filled up pretty quickly. It didn't even have a roof on it.

My father jokes that he joined the US Marines so he could finally know what it felt like to have three square meals a day. Of course, when you're in a bloodbath in a place like Korea, you burn off that food pretty quick.

Today, the government is asking that we sit home in front of our big screen, get paid well, watch our 400 cable or satellite television channels, and fool around on this internet to no end. Now we think that's too much to ask of citizens today to stop a pandemic. It's just more suffering that we can handle, and it's only been a few weeks.

The thing that most people don't see is that we may never recover from this. States like New York, California and Washington are spending money that they don't have and will never have. Thanks to business being closed and people not working taxes are not there to collect. Even the hidden taxes on things like gasoline is going to be substantially down. Even small population states like Wyoming that relies on tourism is going to suffer. So even if we were to bring back the economy in the next few months to what it was before the virus, which is very unlikely it won't save some states.
Add that on to the fact that the small business loans have dried up and no more money has been forth coming to replenish it, thanks in large part to Pelosi, we may see small businesses die out. Which means jobs dying with them. That will mean more unemployment. That will mean more strain on the states and less taxes coming in.
I see tax heavy states trying to up taxes. I don't see that sitting very well with the people living there.

How much did adding that throwaway BS line about Pelosi soothe your butthurt?

NY, California and Washington are states which actually contribute to the nation’s economy and federal revenues. They put in more than they take out.

The idea that they are in worse shape than the shithole red states who suck the federal coffers dry is humorous. The reason these states are the place where the virus has taken hold is the same one that makes these states so valuable. There is massive economic activity there. They’re the engine that runs our economy.

Roflol. Got to love the crazy. So you are saying that Pelosi is not holding up the funding? Or are you just upset?
I hate to dissalusion you but no one was talking about the Feds. I was talking about the state level. I know it is hard to understand the diffrence when you just want to rant nonsense.

So show me where states spending so much on healthcare and not receiving taxes is going to help their economy.

Dumbass. The reason the bill is being held up is because there is no money in it for states to use to keep operating their healthcare programs.

It has nothing to do with Pelosi not helping small businesses. It has to do with Trump being butthurt over some governors holding him to account.

It was origanally meant to add money to the small business relief. It was not meant to help healthcare programs. That could easily be brought forth in another bill. But it makes more sense to add more and more things just to hold up the bill.
No matter how you slice it you really need a better talking point to help your little princess. People and small businesses are suffering while she shows off her mega expensive refrigerators and her 32 flavors of gourmet ice cream.
I notice no one has actually suggested that congress take a pay cut to show that they are willing to suffer like the little people. In fact they increased their pay.

 

[linux07]

it's only tyranny when the other guy does it

 

[Care4all]

I can see a reasonable "stay home" period, especially in cities where subway rides can mean an explosion in cases.
However, as long as masks are worn, and hand sanitizer used, that should safely allow people to work.
Governors need to know that most people live week to week and no work means no money.

You are ignoring the fact that millions and millions are collecting unemployment, that small businesses have been given money they won't have to pay back as long as they use the money to continue to pay their workers, that stimulus checks have already been delivered all over the country and that major banks have agreed not to foreclose on unpaid mortgages. The people are hurting, sure. Unemployment is not as much as a paycheck and the small businesses paying their staff have cut the hours they are covering.

Yes, for the economy's sake, we need to get things going. But it is not because everyone is penniless and starving.

You are right to a certain extent. People are not at this minute starving but if we continue with the lockdown that will change in very short order. Banks can not continue to forgive, rental owners can not continue to forgive, the government can not continue to place Trillions on its credit card. There has to be a point when no matter what we have to open.
People take a chance just from living, heart attack etc. you take a chance from getting in a car, from getting in a plane. People need to decide for themselves when the risk of loosing everything they have is worth the risk of going back to work.
Some even see the suspension of the bill of rights and the constitution as grounds for ending the lockdown.

People are in different positions in life. Yes, you take a chance by getting in a car, but if you drive a car totally drunk, your chances of getting in an accident rise considerably.

As for myself, while I understand the economic ramifications, I don't think the last couple of weeks will kill us. What will kill me is getting this virus, so my interest is seeing it wiped out ASAP. With my medical conditions, I'm that guy who's totally drunk getting behind the wheel of a car.

You do realize that even before this dempanic nonsense life was a crapshoot. At any given moment dozens of diseases are swirling around you. There are several different strains of influenza, TB, even diseases thought eradicated still have vestiges. If you were to look at your skin under a microscope you would see an overcrowded war zone.

The greatest danger doesn't come from this virus. The greatest danger comes from sanitizing yourself so much that the eternal war for your health and well being gets out of balance.

This virus is not much different than the flu. The major difference however is how fast it can spread.

I understand both sides of the argument. But I don't go outside unless I have to for food, beverage or medication. It's not fun as we all currently know. I don't know anybody here personally, but I'm willing to bet most of the "open up the economy" people are at low risk for death. You catch it, no big deal. You stay home for a few weeks and carry on with life.

Okay, so we do just that, we open up the economy. What's likely to happen? That flattened curve will no longer be flat, It will resume going upwards. But hey, at least people are back at work or continuing their life, right?

That's true, but it makes people like me have to live this isolated lifestyle for months and perhaps well over another year. Is that okay with you?

So lets turn that around just a little. Is it alright to take other people's house and car and savings away just so you aren't inconvenienced?
Is it ok to increase our national debt just so you aren't inconvenienced?

I think there can be a happy middle ground to this. I say keep it this way until there are easily enough N-95 masks for everybody. If the mask you wear isn't an N-95, it isn't providing adequate protection. It's only helping stop the spread of the virus if you have it.

Once again do you consider your needs above many others?

Not at all. I'm just thinking of what could work for everybody. Like I said, something in the middle. Hey, I have an IRA in the market too. My last statement said I lost around 25%. Not happy. What I want to see is to make sure our medical personnel are well protected, our first responders, and then people like myself who are at a high fatality risk get these masks. If I have some protection being that I live in an area with high infection rates, I'll be glad to wear a mask for a year or whenever to see this economy rip roaring again.

I understand we can't live like this until August. Too much economic damage to recover from.

Well I am at least glad you understand that we can't live with everyone hiding under the bed forever. But are you going to be upset because Florida is opening up now? Are you going to be crying that Texas will be by May?
I saw my IRA down also but I just stopped taking an out until it comes back.
The people I care about is the family with a house payment, a car payment and probably living paycheck to paycheck. The little bit they got in a stimulus check is not going to go far. So do we keep spending on the Feds credit card just little bits of money or do we force everyone of them to get use to shelters, breadlines and welfare?

As I was saying to Kyzr, unemployment with the federal contribution is pretty generous at this time. I'm sure there will be many people making more money sitting at home than they did working. So I'm really not concerned on how they pay their bills.

I'm not too worried about my IRA either. It's invested with a very fine company, and I have no immediate plans to use it. My real concern is that we don't have a relapse of this problem, only tenfold. Not only am I at high risk, both of my parents are in their late 80's, and they have plenty of medical problems themselves. The more people in my environment that has this thing, the higher risk of me or a member of my family catching it.


The President and our Governors are having to perform a balancing act. There is no right or wrong decision here. If we move too fast, that could be devastating to our health. If we move too slow, it may be devastating to our economy. I feel for those leaders right now. No matter what they decide, you can't blame them one way or the other.

I also feel that this debt should be repaid by all of us once we get things back on track. I think we should have a federal consumption tax until everything we are spending on today slowly gets paid back tomorrow. Say ten cents on every dollar spent. Yes, it will take quite a bit of time to repay it, but I think it's something we need to do in order to secure our financial future.

Let’s not forget that you said that you would not work if you could receive enough money from “welfare”. That’s you. A “conservative”.

You project.

Do you think I haven't seen this before? I've lived through several recessions; two major ones. I know how people not working feel about staying on unemployment if they can make ends meet that way. I've seen people stay on it until it's very last day. I've seen people on it and working under the table for cash.

A late friend of mine worked at the steel mills. When he got laid off, the union paid him 90% of his pay, he was still able to collect unemployment since the government and unions are both criminals, and he worked under the table. He used to laugh telling me how he was making so much more money not working than working. He waited until the mills sent him a letter to return to work because he would never answer the phone if he knew it was them calling.

I'm glad you think that "most" Americans don't think like that, but to your chagrin, they do. Don't believe me, just look at the food stamp growth under DumBama, when supposedly, he got the economy going again. It wasn't until the Republican Governors started to make requirements that those people started to drop out of the program.

I could be wrong but I hear people saying they want to go back to work so I make the assumption that they are telling each other the truth.
Every time I hear people complain about something during this time I can't help but think about history.
I wonder how many would have made it when we had polio, the Spanish flu or any of the other things that we have had over history.
I can't help but think of how many would have made it out of the boats during DDay.
I can't help but wonder how many could have survived when milk, meat, and almost everything else was rationed.
Then I wonder if the generations now have enough cereal and milk or toilet paper.
I remember families sending sons and fathers off to war before we had instant communication, before we had correspondents on the battlefield. They knew that they may not hear from them for weeks or months. Sometimes people were notified of a son or fathers death and days later get a letter from them.
Now I wonder how people get by with only emails, phone calls, video chat.

My father likes to tell stories about his pathetic childhood. He and his five siblings grew up in a house about the size of a three car garage. They were on welfare, but welfare back then meant the kids pulling their red wagon to the fire station five miles down the road. There, the firemen would fill up their wagon with fruits and vegetables.

When they wanted a real treat, they walked 15 miles to the next city. They knew a woman that would make them peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. They had to eat their sandwiches behind her garage. If my grandfather found out they were begging, he would beat the hell out of them.

They had no natural gas, propane heat or plumbing. In the winters, which can be pretty brutal up north, they had to use the outhouse in the backyard. With a family of seven, that hole filled up pretty quickly. It didn't even have a roof on it.

My father jokes that he joined the US Marines so he could finally know what it felt like to have three square meals a day. Of course, when you're in a bloodbath in a place like Korea, you burn off that food pretty quick.

Today, the government is asking that we sit home in front of our big screen, get paid well, watch our 400 cable or satellite television channels, and fool around on this internet to no end. Now we think that's too much to ask of citizens today to stop a pandemic. It's just more suffering that we can handle, and it's only been a few weeks.

The thing that most people don't see is that we may never recover from this. States like New York, California and Washington are spending money that they don't have and will never have. Thanks to business being closed and people not working taxes are not there to collect. Even the hidden taxes on things like gasoline is going to be substantially down. Even small population states like Wyoming that relies on tourism is going to suffer. So even if we were to bring back the economy in the next few months to what it was before the virus, which is very unlikely it won't save some states.
Add that on to the fact that the small business loans have dried up and no more money has been forth coming to replenish it, thanks in large part to Pelosi, we may see small businesses die out. Which means jobs dying with them. That will mean more unemployment. That will mean more strain on the states and less taxes coming in.
I see tax heavy states trying to up taxes. I don't see that sitting very well with the people living there.

How much did adding that throwaway BS line about Pelosi soothe your butthurt?

NY, California and Washington are states which actually contribute to the nation’s economy and federal revenues. They put in more than they take out.

The idea that they are in worse shape than the shithole red states who suck the federal coffers dry is humorous. The reason these states are the place where the virus has taken hold is the same one that makes these states so valuable. There is massive economic activity there. They’re the engine that runs our economy.

Roflol. Got to love the crazy. So you are saying that Pelosi is not holding up the funding? Or are you just upset?
I hate to dissalusion you but no one was talking about the Feds. I was talking about the state level. I know it is hard to understand the diffrence when you just want to rant nonsense.

So show me where states spending so much on healthcare and not receiving taxes is going to help their economy.

Dumbass. The reason the bill is being held up is because there is no money in it for states to use to keep operating their healthcare programs.

It has nothing to do with Pelosi not helping small businesses. It has to do with Trump being butthurt over some governors holding him to account.

It was origanally meant to add money to the small business relief. It was not meant to help healthcare programs. That could easily be brought forth in another bill. But it makes more sense to add more and more things just to hold up the bill.
No matter how you slice it you really need a better talking point to help your little princess. People and small businesses are suffering while she shows off her mega expensive refrigerators and her 32 flavors of gourmet ice cream.
I notice no one has actually suggested that congress take a pay cut to show that they are willing to suffer like the little people. In fact they increased their pay.

It was part of a comprehensive $2.2 TRILLION dollar bailout, that did not include the State governments spending boocoos of money on hospitals, personal protective gear for doctors and nurses, ventilators, etc etc etc

Why did they not include the small business money needed to help them the first time around bail out?

Was it a game for congress critters and the President to hide that it needed to be a $4 trillion dollar bail out?.

Why did the bail out let the big ass small businesses grab all the money first, instead of truly going to small businesses?

Why was there $500 billion in the bailout bill for big corporations, who already have borrowing power and were handed zero percent interest rates by the Fed? Instead of setting this half a trillion dollars for small businesses?

Why is Trump trying to grease big corporations wheels like this?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I can see a reasonable "stay home" period, especially in cities where subway rides can mean an explosion in cases.
However, as long as masks are worn, and hand sanitizer used, that should safely allow people to work.
Governors need to know that most people live week to week and no work means no money.

You are ignoring the fact that millions and millions are collecting unemployment, that small businesses have been given money they won't have to pay back as long as they use the money to continue to pay their workers, that stimulus checks have already been delivered all over the country and that major banks have agreed not to foreclose on unpaid mortgages. The people are hurting, sure. Unemployment is not as much as a paycheck and the small businesses paying their staff have cut the hours they are covering.

Yes, for the economy's sake, we need to get things going. But it is not because everyone is penniless and starving.

You are right to a certain extent. People are not at this minute starving but if we continue with the lockdown that will change in very short order. Banks can not continue to forgive, rental owners can not continue to forgive, the government can not continue to place Trillions on its credit card. There has to be a point when no matter what we have to open.
People take a chance just from living, heart attack etc. you take a chance from getting in a car, from getting in a plane. People need to decide for themselves when the risk of loosing everything they have is worth the risk of going back to work.
Some even see the suspension of the bill of rights and the constitution as grounds for ending the lockdown.

People are in different positions in life. Yes, you take a chance by getting in a car, but if you drive a car totally drunk, your chances of getting in an accident rise considerably.

As for myself, while I understand the economic ramifications, I don't think the last couple of weeks will kill us. What will kill me is getting this virus, so my interest is seeing it wiped out ASAP. With my medical conditions, I'm that guy who's totally drunk getting behind the wheel of a car.

You do realize that even before this dempanic nonsense life was a crapshoot. At any given moment dozens of diseases are swirling around you. There are several different strains of influenza, TB, even diseases thought eradicated still have vestiges. If you were to look at your skin under a microscope you would see an overcrowded war zone.

The greatest danger doesn't come from this virus. The greatest danger comes from sanitizing yourself so much that the eternal war for your health and well being gets out of balance.

This virus is not much different than the flu. The major difference however is how fast it can spread.

I understand both sides of the argument. But I don't go outside unless I have to for food, beverage or medication. It's not fun as we all currently know. I don't know anybody here personally, but I'm willing to bet most of the "open up the economy" people are at low risk for death. You catch it, no big deal. You stay home for a few weeks and carry on with life.

Okay, so we do just that, we open up the economy. What's likely to happen? That flattened curve will no longer be flat, It will resume going upwards. But hey, at least people are back at work or continuing their life, right?

That's true, but it makes people like me have to live this isolated lifestyle for months and perhaps well over another year. Is that okay with you?

So lets turn that around just a little. Is it alright to take other people's house and car and savings away just so you aren't inconvenienced?
Is it ok to increase our national debt just so you aren't inconvenienced?

I think there can be a happy middle ground to this. I say keep it this way until there are easily enough N-95 masks for everybody. If the mask you wear isn't an N-95, it isn't providing adequate protection. It's only helping stop the spread of the virus if you have it.

Once again do you consider your needs above many others?

Not at all. I'm just thinking of what could work for everybody. Like I said, something in the middle. Hey, I have an IRA in the market too. My last statement said I lost around 25%. Not happy. What I want to see is to make sure our medical personnel are well protected, our first responders, and then people like myself who are at a high fatality risk get these masks. If I have some protection being that I live in an area with high infection rates, I'll be glad to wear a mask for a year or whenever to see this economy rip roaring again.

I understand we can't live like this until August. Too much economic damage to recover from.

Well I am at least glad you understand that we can't live with everyone hiding under the bed forever. But are you going to be upset because Florida is opening up now? Are you going to be crying that Texas will be by May?
I saw my IRA down also but I just stopped taking an out until it comes back.
The people I care about is the family with a house payment, a car payment and probably living paycheck to paycheck. The little bit they got in a stimulus check is not going to go far. So do we keep spending on the Feds credit card just little bits of money or do we force everyone of them to get use to shelters, breadlines and welfare?

As I was saying to Kyzr, unemployment with the federal contribution is pretty generous at this time. I'm sure there will be many people making more money sitting at home than they did working. So I'm really not concerned on how they pay their bills.

I'm not too worried about my IRA either. It's invested with a very fine company, and I have no immediate plans to use it. My real concern is that we don't have a relapse of this problem, only tenfold. Not only am I at high risk, both of my parents are in their late 80's, and they have plenty of medical problems themselves. The more people in my environment that has this thing, the higher risk of me or a member of my family catching it.


The President and our Governors are having to perform a balancing act. There is no right or wrong decision here. If we move too fast, that could be devastating to our health. If we move too slow, it may be devastating to our economy. I feel for those leaders right now. No matter what they decide, you can't blame them one way or the other.

I also feel that this debt should be repaid by all of us once we get things back on track. I think we should have a federal consumption tax until everything we are spending on today slowly gets paid back tomorrow. Say ten cents on every dollar spent. Yes, it will take quite a bit of time to repay it, but I think it's something we need to do in order to secure our financial future.

Let’s not forget that you said that you would not work if you could receive enough money from “welfare”. That’s you. A “conservative”.

You project.

Do you think I haven't seen this before? I've lived through several recessions; two major ones. I know how people not working feel about staying on unemployment if they can make ends meet that way. I've seen people stay on it until it's very last day. I've seen people on it and working under the table for cash.

A late friend of mine worked at the steel mills. When he got laid off, the union paid him 90% of his pay, he was still able to collect unemployment since the government and unions are both criminals, and he worked under the table. He used to laugh telling me how he was making so much more money not working than working. He waited until the mills sent him a letter to return to work because he would never answer the phone if he knew it was them calling.

I'm glad you think that "most" Americans don't think like that, but to your chagrin, they do. Don't believe me, just look at the food stamp growth under DumBama, when supposedly, he got the economy going again. It wasn't until the Republican Governors started to make requirements that those people started to drop out of the program.

I could be wrong but I hear people saying they want to go back to work so I make the assumption that they are telling each other the truth.
Every time I hear people complain about something during this time I can't help but think about history.
I wonder how many would have made it when we had polio, the Spanish flu or any of the other things that we have had over history.
I can't help but think of how many would have made it out of the boats during DDay.
I can't help but wonder how many could have survived when milk, meat, and almost everything else was rationed.
Then I wonder if the generations now have enough cereal and milk or toilet paper.
I remember families sending sons and fathers off to war before we had instant communication, before we had correspondents on the battlefield. They knew that they may not hear from them for weeks or months. Sometimes people were notified of a son or fathers death and days later get a letter from them.
Now I wonder how people get by with only emails, phone calls, video chat.

My father likes to tell stories about his pathetic childhood. He and his five siblings grew up in a house about the size of a three car garage. They were on welfare, but welfare back then meant the kids pulling their red wagon to the fire station five miles down the road. There, the firemen would fill up their wagon with fruits and vegetables.

When they wanted a real treat, they walked 15 miles to the next city. They knew a woman that would make them peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. They had to eat their sandwiches behind her garage. If my grandfather found out they were begging, he would beat the hell out of them.

They had no natural gas, propane heat or plumbing. In the winters, which can be pretty brutal up north, they had to use the outhouse in the backyard. With a family of seven, that hole filled up pretty quickly. It didn't even have a roof on it.

My father jokes that he joined the US Marines so he could finally know what it felt like to have three square meals a day. Of course, when you're in a bloodbath in a place like Korea, you burn off that food pretty quick.

Today, the government is asking that we sit home in front of our big screen, get paid well, watch our 400 cable or satellite television channels, and fool around on this internet to no end. Now we think that's too much to ask of citizens today to stop a pandemic. It's just more suffering that we can handle, and it's only been a few weeks.

The thing that most people don't see is that we may never recover from this. States like New York, California and Washington are spending money that they don't have and will never have. Thanks to business being closed and people not working taxes are not there to collect. Even the hidden taxes on things like gasoline is going to be substantially down. Even small population states like Wyoming that relies on tourism is going to suffer. So even if we were to bring back the economy in the next few months to what it was before the virus, which is very unlikely it won't save some states.
Add that on to the fact that the small business loans have dried up and no more money has been forth coming to replenish it, thanks in large part to Pelosi, we may see small businesses die out. Which means jobs dying with them. That will mean more unemployment. That will mean more strain on the states and less taxes coming in.
I see tax heavy states trying to up taxes. I don't see that sitting very well with the people living there.

It will be similar to what we always see in major recessions. We find a way to make it work. You can kill the economy, but you can't kill the capitalistic spirit. When this starts lifting up, people will have the money to spend with the most generous unemployment stipend I've ever seen in my life, and likely in our history. Hell, it may be the shortest recession in history as well.

We don't know the proper approach to this because we never had this before. I think that if we open up the economy too quickly, and this thing starts spreading again, what you said above will be that and worse. My opinion is that if we can stall the reopening of the economy long enough to supply our public with plenty of N-95 masks, then we could safely open the economy back up.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

That's how many people we lose a year for the flu, and we have shots for that. Remember his staff predicted possibly up to millions.

A YEAR. Not "over four weeks, doubling over the last week".

Yes, his staff warned him, he ignored the warnings and the Governors had to pick up the ball.

BUt not before 22 million people lost their jobs.

Actually we normally have 60,000 flu deaths a season or a cycle. They do not happen all year. This flu season with the Chinese flu is about normal. Democrats are completely responsible for the economic losses. They want to make it worse. Trump is fighting to open everything back up.

If that were true, he'd be making sure the states had more TESTS available.

So explain how he would do that with the CDC and FDA who held them up so badly at the beginning.

His FDA and his CDC? Kind of moot at this point. That's not the case now and there still isn't enough testing.

We couldn't do much testing with them Fn up the system. We had a late start on this, and it's all because of red tape and bureaucracy. We are a population of about 330 million people. Nobody can prepare enough test kits for all. You need to start that process the day we learn that a problem is heading our way.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

but I know how reading the truth destroys you.

and i know no POTUS in our history has EVER intentionally put so many Americans out of work Ray

~S~

You are so right. I don't know why Trump created this worldwide virus to put so many people out of work.

He didn't create it

But he's going to have to deal w/it Ray

I want a leader w/leadership

and i want it NOW!

~S~

He is dealing with it. What's your complaint?

No plan

~S~

Perhaps try watching his daily news conferences he has seven days a week. He talks about our status and plans every day.

Man. You really think that is what he’s doing up there don’t you?

It's not an opinion. He's either doing it or he isn't, and he's doing it.

 

[LoneLaugher]

but I know how reading the truth destroys you.

and i know no POTUS in our history has EVER intentionally put so many Americans out of work Ray

~S~

You are so right. I don't know why Trump created this worldwide virus to put so many people out of work.

He didn't create it

But he's going to have to deal w/it Ray

I want a leader w/leadership

and i want it NOW!

~S~

He is dealing with it. What's your complaint?

No plan

~S~

Perhaps try watching his daily news conferences he has seven days a week. He talks about our status and plans every day.

Man. You really think that is what he’s doing up there don’t you?

It's not an opinion. He's either doing it or he isn't, and he's doing it.

No. He is up there campaigning for his re-election. Why can't you see that?

 

[sparky]

This potus>>>

put millions out of jobs, more than the great depression

~S~

 

[sparky]

Why did they not include the small business money needed to help them the first time around bail out?

because we can't afford lobbyists

~S~

 

[sparky]

but I know how reading the truth destroys you.

and i know no POTUS in our history has EVER intentionally put so many Americans out of work Ray

~S~

You are so right. I don't know why Trump created this worldwide virus to put so many people out of work.

He didn't create it

But he's going to have to deal w/it Ray

I want a leader w/leadership

and i want it NOW!

~S~

He is dealing with it. What's your complaint?

No plan

~S~

Perhaps try watching his daily news conferences he has seven days a week. He talks about our status and plans every day.

Man. You really think that is what he’s doing up there don’t you?

It's not an opinion. He's either doing it or he isn't, and he's doing it.

No. He is up there campaigning for his re-election. Why can't you see that?

and he's best have the economy humming right along by November then

~S~

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

but I know how reading the truth destroys you.

and i know no POTUS in our history has EVER intentionally put so many Americans out of work Ray

~S~

You are so right. I don't know why Trump created this worldwide virus to put so many people out of work.

He didn't create it

But he's going to have to deal w/it Ray

I want a leader w/leadership

and i want it NOW!

~S~

He is dealing with it. What's your complaint?

No plan

~S~

Perhaps try watching his daily news conferences he has seven days a week. He talks about our status and plans every day.

Man. You really think that is what he’s doing up there don’t you?

It's not an opinion. He's either doing it or he isn't, and he's doing it.

No. He is up there campaigning for his re-election. Why can't you see that?

He does do a little of that unfortunately. But most of his addresses are keeping us posted on masks, ventilators (which we will hopefully not need now), advancements and what the models are saying and things like that. Without a doubt, you can't watch one of those episodes and say you didn't learn anything new. And here is an article I found today speaking of advancements.

Dogs might join the good fight to prevent the spread of the coronavirus in humans–especially for those who are symptom free, according to a team of researchers.

Due to the urgent need of coronavirus testing, preparations to intensively train dogs to detect asymptomatic carries of the virus have started and could be ready in six weeks, according to the London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine.

“It’s very early stages,” says James Logan, head of LSHTM’s Department of Disease Control.

“We know diseases have odors — including respiratory diseases such as influenza — and that those odors are in fact quite distinct. There is a very, very good chance that Covid-19 has a specific odor, and if it does I am really confident that the dogs would be able to learn that smell and detect it.”

Dogs might be able to sniff out the coronavirus

Dogs might join the good fight to prevent the spread of the coronavirus in humans–especially for those who are symptom free, according to a team of researchers. Due to the urgent need of coro…

nypost.com

 

[LoneLaugher]

but I know how reading the truth destroys you.

and i know no POTUS in our history has EVER intentionally put so many Americans out of work Ray

~S~

You are so right. I don't know why Trump created this worldwide virus to put so many people out of work.

He didn't create it

But he's going to have to deal w/it Ray

I want a leader w/leadership

and i want it NOW!

~S~

He is dealing with it. What's your complaint?

No plan

~S~

Perhaps try watching his daily news conferences he has seven days a week. He talks about our status and plans every day.

Man. You really think that is what he’s doing up there don’t you?

It's not an opinion. He's either doing it or he isn't, and he's doing it.

No. He is up there campaigning for his re-election. Why can't you see that?

and he's best have the economy humming right along by November then

~S~

His loyal supporters will vote for him regardless. They will join him in blaming others for the bad
and taking credit for the good. That is his entire press briefing. Grievance after grievance...
BS self aggrandizement and divisive rhetoric.