Welcome to tyranny.

[Bleipriester]

If you're afraid of getting sick, stay home. But you can't tell me what to do.

Life is a risk. Freedom means you get to choose.

Don´t confuse freedom with idiocy.

You go first, bub.

Your freedom of corona is a risk to others, the physical and mental healthy people.

 

[sparky]

but I know how reading the truth destroys you.

and i know no POTUS in our history has EVER intentionally put so many Americans out of work Ray

~S~

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I can see a reasonable "stay home" period, especially in cities where subway rides can mean an explosion in cases.
However, as long as masks are worn, and hand sanitizer used, that should safely allow people to work.
Governors need to know that most people live week to week and no work means no money.

You are ignoring the fact that millions and millions are collecting unemployment, that small businesses have been given money they won't have to pay back as long as they use the money to continue to pay their workers, that stimulus checks have already been delivered all over the country and that major banks have agreed not to foreclose on unpaid mortgages. The people are hurting, sure. Unemployment is not as much as a paycheck and the small businesses paying their staff have cut the hours they are covering.

Yes, for the economy's sake, we need to get things going. But it is not because everyone is penniless and starving.

You are right to a certain extent. People are not at this minute starving but if we continue with the lockdown that will change in very short order. Banks can not continue to forgive, rental owners can not continue to forgive, the government can not continue to place Trillions on its credit card. There has to be a point when no matter what we have to open.
People take a chance just from living, heart attack etc. you take a chance from getting in a car, from getting in a plane. People need to decide for themselves when the risk of loosing everything they have is worth the risk of going back to work.
Some even see the suspension of the bill of rights and the constitution as grounds for ending the lockdown.

People are in different positions in life. Yes, you take a chance by getting in a car, but if you drive a car totally drunk, your chances of getting in an accident rise considerably.

As for myself, while I understand the economic ramifications, I don't think the last couple of weeks will kill us. What will kill me is getting this virus, so my interest is seeing it wiped out ASAP. With my medical conditions, I'm that guy who's totally drunk getting behind the wheel of a car.

You do realize that even before this dempanic nonsense life was a crapshoot. At any given moment dozens of diseases are swirling around you. There are several different strains of influenza, TB, even diseases thought eradicated still have vestiges. If you were to look at your skin under a microscope you would see an overcrowded war zone.

The greatest danger doesn't come from this virus. The greatest danger comes from sanitizing yourself so much that the eternal war for your health and well being gets out of balance.

This virus is not much different than the flu. The major difference however is how fast it can spread.

I understand both sides of the argument. But I don't go outside unless I have to for food, beverage or medication. It's not fun as we all currently know. I don't know anybody here personally, but I'm willing to bet most of the "open up the economy" people are at low risk for death. You catch it, no big deal. You stay home for a few weeks and carry on with life.

Okay, so we do just that, we open up the economy. What's likely to happen? That flattened curve will no longer be flat, It will resume going upwards. But hey, at least people are back at work or continuing their life, right?

That's true, but it makes people like me have to live this isolated lifestyle for months and perhaps well over another year. Is that okay with you?

So lets turn that around just a little. Is it alright to take other people's house and car and savings away just so you aren't inconvenienced?
Is it ok to increase our national debt just so you aren't inconvenienced?

I think there can be a happy middle ground to this. I say keep it this way until there are easily enough N-95 masks for everybody. If the mask you wear isn't an N-95, it isn't providing adequate protection. It's only helping stop the spread of the virus if you have it.

Once again do you consider your needs above many others?

Not at all. I'm just thinking of what could work for everybody. Like I said, something in the middle. Hey, I have an IRA in the market too. My last statement said I lost around 25%. Not happy. What I want to see is to make sure our medical personnel are well protected, our first responders, and then people like myself who are at a high fatality risk get these masks. If I have some protection being that I live in an area with high infection rates, I'll be glad to wear a mask for a year or whenever to see this economy rip roaring again.

I understand we can't live like this until August. Too much economic damage to recover from.

Well I am at least glad you understand that we can't live with everyone hiding under the bed forever. But are you going to be upset because Florida is opening up now? Are you going to be crying that Texas will be by May?
I saw my IRA down also but I just stopped taking an out until it comes back.
The people I care about is the family with a house payment, a car payment and probably living paycheck to paycheck. The little bit they got in a stimulus check is not going to go far. So do we keep spending on the Feds credit card just little bits of money or do we force everyone of them to get use to shelters, breadlines and welfare?

As I was saying to Kyzr, unemployment with the federal contribution is pretty generous at this time. I'm sure there will be many people making more money sitting at home than they did working. So I'm really not concerned on how they pay their bills.

I'm not too worried about my IRA either. It's invested with a very fine company, and I have no immediate plans to use it. My real concern is that we don't have a relapse of this problem, only tenfold. Not only am I at high risk, both of my parents are in their late 80's, and they have plenty of medical problems themselves. The more people in my environment that has this thing, the higher risk of me or a member of my family catching it.


The President and our Governors are having to perform a balancing act. There is no right or wrong decision here. If we move too fast, that could be devastating to our health. If we move too slow, it may be devastating to our economy. I feel for those leaders right now. No matter what they decide, you can't blame them one way or the other.

I also feel that this debt should be repaid by all of us once we get things back on track. I think we should have a federal consumption tax until everything we are spending on today slowly gets paid back tomorrow. Say ten cents on every dollar spent. Yes, it will take quite a bit of time to repay it, but I think it's something we need to do in order to secure our financial future.

Let’s not forget that you said that you would not work if you could receive enough money from “welfare”. That’s you. A “conservative”.

You project.

Do you think I haven't seen this before? I've lived through several recessions; two major ones. I know how people not working feel about staying on unemployment if they can make ends meet that way. I've seen people stay on it until it's very last day. I've seen people on it and working under the table for cash.

A late friend of mine worked at the steel mills. When he got laid off, the union paid him 90% of his pay, he was still able to collect unemployment since the government and unions are both criminals, and he worked under the table. He used to laugh telling me how he was making so much more money not working than working. He waited until the mills sent him a letter to return to work because he would never answer the phone if he knew it was them calling.

I'm glad you think that "most" Americans don't think like that, but to your chagrin, they do. Don't believe me, just look at the food stamp growth under DumBama, when supposedly, he got the economy going again. It wasn't until the Republican Governors started to make requirements that those people started to drop out of the program.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

If you're afraid of getting sick, stay home. But you can't tell me what to do.

You're wrong. Just as society has the right to impose restrictions on behavior that imperils the public's health..............like smoking in public places or driving 100 mph................we have the right to impose rules for behavior during a pandemic.

People like you need to be fined and or thrown in jail. You're a menace to society.

Uh so he needs to be thrown in jail for not going along with what a corrupt dictatorship tells him..? Gotcha

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

but I know how reading the truth destroys you.

and i know no POTUS in our history has EVER intentionally put so many Americans out of work Ray

~S~

You are so right. I don't know why Trump created this worldwide virus to put so many people out of work.

 

[LoneLaugher]

I can see a reasonable "stay home" period, especially in cities where subway rides can mean an explosion in cases.
However, as long as masks are worn, and hand sanitizer used, that should safely allow people to work.
Governors need to know that most people live week to week and no work means no money.

You are ignoring the fact that millions and millions are collecting unemployment, that small businesses have been given money they won't have to pay back as long as they use the money to continue to pay their workers, that stimulus checks have already been delivered all over the country and that major banks have agreed not to foreclose on unpaid mortgages. The people are hurting, sure. Unemployment is not as much as a paycheck and the small businesses paying their staff have cut the hours they are covering.

Yes, for the economy's sake, we need to get things going. But it is not because everyone is penniless and starving.

You are right to a certain extent. People are not at this minute starving but if we continue with the lockdown that will change in very short order. Banks can not continue to forgive, rental owners can not continue to forgive, the government can not continue to place Trillions on its credit card. There has to be a point when no matter what we have to open.
People take a chance just from living, heart attack etc. you take a chance from getting in a car, from getting in a plane. People need to decide for themselves when the risk of loosing everything they have is worth the risk of going back to work.
Some even see the suspension of the bill of rights and the constitution as grounds for ending the lockdown.

People are in different positions in life. Yes, you take a chance by getting in a car, but if you drive a car totally drunk, your chances of getting in an accident rise considerably.

As for myself, while I understand the economic ramifications, I don't think the last couple of weeks will kill us. What will kill me is getting this virus, so my interest is seeing it wiped out ASAP. With my medical conditions, I'm that guy who's totally drunk getting behind the wheel of a car.

You do realize that even before this dempanic nonsense life was a crapshoot. At any given moment dozens of diseases are swirling around you. There are several different strains of influenza, TB, even diseases thought eradicated still have vestiges. If you were to look at your skin under a microscope you would see an overcrowded war zone.

The greatest danger doesn't come from this virus. The greatest danger comes from sanitizing yourself so much that the eternal war for your health and well being gets out of balance.

This virus is not much different than the flu. The major difference however is how fast it can spread.

I understand both sides of the argument. But I don't go outside unless I have to for food, beverage or medication. It's not fun as we all currently know. I don't know anybody here personally, but I'm willing to bet most of the "open up the economy" people are at low risk for death. You catch it, no big deal. You stay home for a few weeks and carry on with life.

Okay, so we do just that, we open up the economy. What's likely to happen? That flattened curve will no longer be flat, It will resume going upwards. But hey, at least people are back at work or continuing their life, right?

That's true, but it makes people like me have to live this isolated lifestyle for months and perhaps well over another year. Is that okay with you?

So lets turn that around just a little. Is it alright to take other people's house and car and savings away just so you aren't inconvenienced?
Is it ok to increase our national debt just so you aren't inconvenienced?

I think there can be a happy middle ground to this. I say keep it this way until there are easily enough N-95 masks for everybody. If the mask you wear isn't an N-95, it isn't providing adequate protection. It's only helping stop the spread of the virus if you have it.

Once again do you consider your needs above many others?

Not at all. I'm just thinking of what could work for everybody. Like I said, something in the middle. Hey, I have an IRA in the market too. My last statement said I lost around 25%. Not happy. What I want to see is to make sure our medical personnel are well protected, our first responders, and then people like myself who are at a high fatality risk get these masks. If I have some protection being that I live in an area with high infection rates, I'll be glad to wear a mask for a year or whenever to see this economy rip roaring again.

I understand we can't live like this until August. Too much economic damage to recover from.

Well I am at least glad you understand that we can't live with everyone hiding under the bed forever. But are you going to be upset because Florida is opening up now? Are you going to be crying that Texas will be by May?
I saw my IRA down also but I just stopped taking an out until it comes back.
The people I care about is the family with a house payment, a car payment and probably living paycheck to paycheck. The little bit they got in a stimulus check is not going to go far. So do we keep spending on the Feds credit card just little bits of money or do we force everyone of them to get use to shelters, breadlines and welfare?

As I was saying to Kyzr, unemployment with the federal contribution is pretty generous at this time. I'm sure there will be many people making more money sitting at home than they did working. So I'm really not concerned on how they pay their bills.

I'm not too worried about my IRA either. It's invested with a very fine company, and I have no immediate plans to use it. My real concern is that we don't have a relapse of this problem, only tenfold. Not only am I at high risk, both of my parents are in their late 80's, and they have plenty of medical problems themselves. The more people in my environment that has this thing, the higher risk of me or a member of my family catching it.


The President and our Governors are having to perform a balancing act. There is no right or wrong decision here. If we move too fast, that could be devastating to our health. If we move too slow, it may be devastating to our economy. I feel for those leaders right now. No matter what they decide, you can't blame them one way or the other.

I also feel that this debt should be repaid by all of us once we get things back on track. I think we should have a federal consumption tax until everything we are spending on today slowly gets paid back tomorrow. Say ten cents on every dollar spent. Yes, it will take quite a bit of time to repay it, but I think it's something we need to do in order to secure our financial future.

Let’s not forget that you said that you would not work if you could receive enough money from “welfare”. That’s you. A “conservative”.

You project.

Do you think I haven't seen this before? I've lived through several recessions; two major ones. I know how people not working feel about staying on unemployment if they can make ends meet that way. I've seen people stay on it until it's very last day. I've seen people on it and working under the table for cash.

A late friend of mine worked at the steel mills. When he got laid off, the union paid him 90% of his pay, he was still able to collect unemployment since the government and unions are both criminals, and he worked under the table. He used to laugh telling me how he was making so much more money not working than working. He waited until the mills sent him a letter to return to work because he would never answer the phone if he knew it was them calling.

I'm glad you think that "most" Americans don't think like that, but to your chagrin, they do. Don't believe me, just look at the food stamp growth under DumBama, when supposedly, he got the economy going again. It wasn't until the Republican Governors started to make requirements that those people started to drop out of the program.

Bullshit.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

The Bill of Rights is not the legal code which determines this matter. Is it?

The Bill Of Rights takes precedence over the legal code.

Believe me, there will be loads of lawsuits by people who have lost their businesses. And these would-be dictators will receive a judicial smackdown.

Much as I wish that were the case that these would be dictators will receive a smack down that will never happen the fact that politicians get away with crimes everyday we go to jail for.both parties Re corrupt,there is no difference in the two and the majority of the sheep here in America seem eager to give up their freedoms more and more Over the years and decades Beam me up Scotty,there is no intelligent life forms on this planet

 

[LA RAM FAN]

If you're afraid of getting sick, stay home. But you can't tell me what to do.

You're wrong. Just as society has the right to impose restrictions on behavior that imperils the public's health..............like smoking in public places or driving 100 mph................we have the right to impose rules for behavior during a pandemic.

People like you need to be fined and or thrown in jail. You're a menace to society.

When you guys make these posts from now on, make sure you add "ALSO I'M A DEMOCRAT AND WILL VOTE FOR JOE BIDEN 2020"

Just so Americans are clear on what you all stand for.

I'm standing back here watching you all destroy yourselves for November. I can tell you this, btw, and not ruin a thing bc your people are too stupid to be able to stop. You literally will still not be able to stop.

The brainwashed sheep I just got done talking about,

 

[mamooth]

If you're afraid of getting sick, stay home. But you can't tell me what to do.

A door slam would really enhance that "YOU'RE NOT THE BOSS OF ME!" tantrum.

Welcome to reality. Sometimes I am the boss of you. And sometimes you are the boss of me. That's how adulthood works.

The sullen teenager act is not a vote-winner. Voters tend to _not_ support those people who proudly announce their willingness to kill their neighbors.

 

[LA RAM FAN]

The refusal by some to understand how viruses like this spread is hard for thinking people to understand.

Willful ignorance in rampant among Trump cultists. It explains his election.

And you are exactly what the framers of the Constitution warned us about.

You shouldn't speak on subjects you know nothing about.

health-safety-and-morals

www.law.cornell.edu

Obviously you either never read or don't understand the Bill Of Rights. No where in there does it say that .gov can shut down your business, close the churches, and force you to stay home.

The Bill of Rights is not the legal code which determines this matter. Is it?

If you're afraid of getting sick, stay home. But you can't tell me what to do.

Life is a risk. Freedom means you get to choose.

Your RWNJ "media" sources are gonna kill you or your loved ones.

Why would you listen to someone who would tell you to take a risk like that?

It’s always fascinating to take a peek into your twisted minds.
“Please Father Government, please deprive me of rights...PLEASE!”

Except that nobody said that.

Your "leaders" are willing to sacrifice you on the alter of their re-election campaign. They will do or say anything to that end, and your lives along with your families lives and anyone else who gets in their way are forfeit.

And you're all apparently to dumb to see it.

What does a re-election campaign have to do with ignorant fools embracing / allowing / encouraging a loss of rights?

And that is why they continue to use you, to the point of endangering yours and your loved ones lives.

So I take it you have now embraced the deficit whole heartily.
You are now saying the opposite of what you were yelling was one of your many criticisms of Trump.

Lol, the republicans have brainwashed you to believe their government is more important than your life.

I don't know why I'm laughing, it's really not funny.

And you have not only been brainwashed to believe that the democrats care about you but that you can blame republicans for everything that they do. I would say that is sad but it is more tragic then sad.
So answer the question little one. Are you now embarrassing a higher deficit and now willing to give Trump a pass on his deficit?

It is indeed sad that stupid ass sheep like him still after all these years think

The refusal by some to understand how viruses like this spread is hard for thinking people to understand.

Willful ignorance in rampant among Trump cultists. It explains his election.

And you are exactly what the framers of the Constitution warned us about.

You shouldn't speak on subjects you know nothing about.

health-safety-and-morals

www.law.cornell.edu

Obviously you either never read or don't understand the Bill Of Rights. No where in there does it say that .gov can shut down your business, close the churches, and force you to stay home.

The Bill of Rights is not the legal code which determines this matter. Is it?

If you're afraid of getting sick, stay home. But you can't tell me what to do.

Life is a risk. Freedom means you get to choose.

Your RWNJ "media" sources are gonna kill you or your loved ones.

Why would you listen to someone who would tell you to take a risk like that?

It’s always fascinating to take a peek into your twisted minds.
“Please Father Government, please deprive me of rights...PLEASE!”

Except that nobody said that.

Your "leaders" are willing to sacrifice you on the alter of their re-election campaign. They will do or say anything to that end, and your lives along with your families lives and anyone else who gets in their way are forfeit.

And you're all apparently to dumb to see it.

What does a re-election campaign have to do with ignorant fools embracing / allowing / encouraging a loss of rights?

And that is why they continue to use you, to the point of endangering yours and your loved ones lives.

So I take it you have now embraced the deficit whole heartily.
You are now saying the opposite of what you were yelling was one of your many criticisms of Trump.

Lol, the republicans have brainwashed you to believe their government is more important than your life.

I don't know why I'm laughing, it's really not funny.

And you have not only been brainwashed to believe that the democrats care about you but that you can blame republicans for everything that they do. I would say that is sad but it is more tragic then sad.
So answer the question little one. Are you now embarrassing a higher deficit and now willing to give Trump a pass on his deficit?

It indeed is sad that after all these decades we still have a lot of stupid ass sheep who think there is any difference in the corrupt two party system we have, I would laugh over that stupidity if it wasn’t so sad

 

[sparky]

but I know how reading the truth destroys you.

and i know no POTUS in our history has EVER intentionally put so many Americans out of work Ray

~S~

You are so right. I don't know why Trump created this worldwide virus to put so many people out of work.

He didn't create it

But he's going to have to deal w/it Ray

I want a leader w/leadership

and i want it NOW!

~S~

 

[JoeB131]

Shitstain obama made his deal with the Chinese devil in 2015. One year before Trump was elected. Like all democrats the shitstain was and is intent on destroying this country.

Okay, if I didn't already know you were a crazy homophobe religious nutcase, you have definitely ratcheted up the crazy to a new level.

Trump is not only doing just fine, he's doing an outstanding job.

40,000 dead and 23 million unemployed is not doing a good job.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Shitstain obama made his deal with the Chinese devil in 2015. One year before Trump was elected. Like all democrats the shitstain was and is intent on destroying this country.

Okay, if I didn't already know you were a crazy homophobe religious nutcase, you have definitely ratcheted up the crazy to a new level.

Trump is not only doing just fine, he's doing an outstanding job.

40,000 dead and 23 million unemployed is not doing a good job.

That's how many people we lose a year for the flu, and we have shots for that. Remember his staff predicted possibly up to millions.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

but I know how reading the truth destroys you.

and i know no POTUS in our history has EVER intentionally put so many Americans out of work Ray

~S~

You are so right. I don't know why Trump created this worldwide virus to put so many people out of work.

He didn't create it

But he's going to have to deal w/it Ray

I want a leader w/leadership

and i want it NOW!

~S~

He is dealing with it. What's your complaint?

 

[sparky]

but I know how reading the truth destroys you.

and i know no POTUS in our history has EVER intentionally put so many Americans out of work Ray

~S~

You are so right. I don't know why Trump created this worldwide virus to put so many people out of work.

He didn't create it

But he's going to have to deal w/it Ray

I want a leader w/leadership

and i want it NOW!

~S~

He is dealing with it. What's your complaint?

No plan

~S~

 

[JoeB131]

That's how many people we lose a year for the flu, and we have shots for that. Remember his staff predicted possibly up to millions.

A YEAR. Not "over four weeks, doubling over the last week".

Yes, his staff warned him, he ignored the warnings and the Governors had to pick up the ball.

BUt not before 22 million people lost their jobs.

 

[Maxdeath]

I can see a reasonable "stay home" period, especially in cities where subway rides can mean an explosion in cases.
However, as long as masks are worn, and hand sanitizer used, that should safely allow people to work.
Governors need to know that most people live week to week and no work means no money.

You are ignoring the fact that millions and millions are collecting unemployment, that small businesses have been given money they won't have to pay back as long as they use the money to continue to pay their workers, that stimulus checks have already been delivered all over the country and that major banks have agreed not to foreclose on unpaid mortgages. The people are hurting, sure. Unemployment is not as much as a paycheck and the small businesses paying their staff have cut the hours they are covering.

Yes, for the economy's sake, we need to get things going. But it is not because everyone is penniless and starving.

You are right to a certain extent. People are not at this minute starving but if we continue with the lockdown that will change in very short order. Banks can not continue to forgive, rental owners can not continue to forgive, the government can not continue to place Trillions on its credit card. There has to be a point when no matter what we have to open.
People take a chance just from living, heart attack etc. you take a chance from getting in a car, from getting in a plane. People need to decide for themselves when the risk of loosing everything they have is worth the risk of going back to work.
Some even see the suspension of the bill of rights and the constitution as grounds for ending the lockdown.

People are in different positions in life. Yes, you take a chance by getting in a car, but if you drive a car totally drunk, your chances of getting in an accident rise considerably.

As for myself, while I understand the economic ramifications, I don't think the last couple of weeks will kill us. What will kill me is getting this virus, so my interest is seeing it wiped out ASAP. With my medical conditions, I'm that guy who's totally drunk getting behind the wheel of a car.

You do realize that even before this dempanic nonsense life was a crapshoot. At any given moment dozens of diseases are swirling around you. There are several different strains of influenza, TB, even diseases thought eradicated still have vestiges. If you were to look at your skin under a microscope you would see an overcrowded war zone.

The greatest danger doesn't come from this virus. The greatest danger comes from sanitizing yourself so much that the eternal war for your health and well being gets out of balance.

This virus is not much different than the flu. The major difference however is how fast it can spread.

I understand both sides of the argument. But I don't go outside unless I have to for food, beverage or medication. It's not fun as we all currently know. I don't know anybody here personally, but I'm willing to bet most of the "open up the economy" people are at low risk for death. You catch it, no big deal. You stay home for a few weeks and carry on with life.

Okay, so we do just that, we open up the economy. What's likely to happen? That flattened curve will no longer be flat, It will resume going upwards. But hey, at least people are back at work or continuing their life, right?

That's true, but it makes people like me have to live this isolated lifestyle for months and perhaps well over another year. Is that okay with you?

So lets turn that around just a little. Is it alright to take other people's house and car and savings away just so you aren't inconvenienced?
Is it ok to increase our national debt just so you aren't inconvenienced?

I think there can be a happy middle ground to this. I say keep it this way until there are easily enough N-95 masks for everybody. If the mask you wear isn't an N-95, it isn't providing adequate protection. It's only helping stop the spread of the virus if you have it.

Once again do you consider your needs above many others?

Not at all. I'm just thinking of what could work for everybody. Like I said, something in the middle. Hey, I have an IRA in the market too. My last statement said I lost around 25%. Not happy. What I want to see is to make sure our medical personnel are well protected, our first responders, and then people like myself who are at a high fatality risk get these masks. If I have some protection being that I live in an area with high infection rates, I'll be glad to wear a mask for a year or whenever to see this economy rip roaring again.

I understand we can't live like this until August. Too much economic damage to recover from.

Well I am at least glad you understand that we can't live with everyone hiding under the bed forever. But are you going to be upset because Florida is opening up now? Are you going to be crying that Texas will be by May?
I saw my IRA down also but I just stopped taking an out until it comes back.
The people I care about is the family with a house payment, a car payment and probably living paycheck to paycheck. The little bit they got in a stimulus check is not going to go far. So do we keep spending on the Feds credit card just little bits of money or do we force everyone of them to get use to shelters, breadlines and welfare?

As I was saying to Kyzr, unemployment with the federal contribution is pretty generous at this time. I'm sure there will be many people making more money sitting at home than they did working. So I'm really not concerned on how they pay their bills.

I'm not too worried about my IRA either. It's invested with a very fine company, and I have no immediate plans to use it. My real concern is that we don't have a relapse of this problem, only tenfold. Not only am I at high risk, both of my parents are in their late 80's, and they have plenty of medical problems themselves. The more people in my environment that has this thing, the higher risk of me or a member of my family catching it.


The President and our Governors are having to perform a balancing act. There is no right or wrong decision here. If we move too fast, that could be devastating to our health. If we move too slow, it may be devastating to our economy. I feel for those leaders right now. No matter what they decide, you can't blame them one way or the other.

I also feel that this debt should be repaid by all of us once we get things back on track. I think we should have a federal consumption tax until everything we are spending on today slowly gets paid back tomorrow. Say ten cents on every dollar spent. Yes, it will take quite a bit of time to repay it, but I think it's something we need to do in order to secure our financial future.

Let’s not forget that you said that you would not work if you could receive enough money from “welfare”. That’s you. A “conservative”.

You project.

Do you think I haven't seen this before? I've lived through several recessions; two major ones. I know how people not working feel about staying on unemployment if they can make ends meet that way. I've seen people stay on it until it's very last day. I've seen people on it and working under the table for cash.

A late friend of mine worked at the steel mills. When he got laid off, the union paid him 90% of his pay, he was still able to collect unemployment since the government and unions are both criminals, and he worked under the table. He used to laugh telling me how he was making so much more money not working than working. He waited until the mills sent him a letter to return to work because he would never answer the phone if he knew it was them calling.

I'm glad you think that "most" Americans don't think like that, but to your chagrin, they do. Don't believe me, just look at the food stamp growth under DumBama, when supposedly, he got the economy going again. It wasn't until the Republican Governors started to make requirements that those people started to drop out of the program.

I could be wrong but I hear people saying they want to go back to work so I make the assumption that they are telling each other the truth.
Every time I hear people complain about something during this time I can't help but think about history.
I wonder how many would have made it when we had polio, the Spanish flu or any of the other things that we have had over history.
I can't help but think of how many would have made it out of the boats during DDay.
I can't help but wonder how many could have survived when milk, meat, and almost everything else was rationed.
Then I wonder if the generations now have enough cereal and milk or toilet paper.
I remember families sending sons and fathers off to war before we had instant communication, before we had correspondents on the battlefield. They knew that they may not hear from them for weeks or months. Sometimes people were notified of a son or fathers death and days later get a letter from them.
Now I wonder how people get by with only emails, phone calls, video chat.

 

[Maxdeath]

but I know how reading the truth destroys you.

and i know no POTUS in our history has EVER intentionally put so many Americans out of work Ray

~S~

You are so right. I don't know why Trump created this worldwide virus to put so many people out of work.

He didn't create it

But he's going to have to deal w/it Ray

I want a leader w/leadership

and i want it NOW!

~S~

If by say August we have few dying from this, the stock market is up to near where it was and unemployment is under where 44 had it will you be singing praise or will you be on to the next outrage?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I can see a reasonable "stay home" period, especially in cities where subway rides can mean an explosion in cases.
However, as long as masks are worn, and hand sanitizer used, that should safely allow people to work.
Governors need to know that most people live week to week and no work means no money.

You are ignoring the fact that millions and millions are collecting unemployment, that small businesses have been given money they won't have to pay back as long as they use the money to continue to pay their workers, that stimulus checks have already been delivered all over the country and that major banks have agreed not to foreclose on unpaid mortgages. The people are hurting, sure. Unemployment is not as much as a paycheck and the small businesses paying their staff have cut the hours they are covering.

Yes, for the economy's sake, we need to get things going. But it is not because everyone is penniless and starving.

You are right to a certain extent. People are not at this minute starving but if we continue with the lockdown that will change in very short order. Banks can not continue to forgive, rental owners can not continue to forgive, the government can not continue to place Trillions on its credit card. There has to be a point when no matter what we have to open.
People take a chance just from living, heart attack etc. you take a chance from getting in a car, from getting in a plane. People need to decide for themselves when the risk of loosing everything they have is worth the risk of going back to work.
Some even see the suspension of the bill of rights and the constitution as grounds for ending the lockdown.

People are in different positions in life. Yes, you take a chance by getting in a car, but if you drive a car totally drunk, your chances of getting in an accident rise considerably.

As for myself, while I understand the economic ramifications, I don't think the last couple of weeks will kill us. What will kill me is getting this virus, so my interest is seeing it wiped out ASAP. With my medical conditions, I'm that guy who's totally drunk getting behind the wheel of a car.

You do realize that even before this dempanic nonsense life was a crapshoot. At any given moment dozens of diseases are swirling around you. There are several different strains of influenza, TB, even diseases thought eradicated still have vestiges. If you were to look at your skin under a microscope you would see an overcrowded war zone.

The greatest danger doesn't come from this virus. The greatest danger comes from sanitizing yourself so much that the eternal war for your health and well being gets out of balance.

This virus is not much different than the flu. The major difference however is how fast it can spread.

I understand both sides of the argument. But I don't go outside unless I have to for food, beverage or medication. It's not fun as we all currently know. I don't know anybody here personally, but I'm willing to bet most of the "open up the economy" people are at low risk for death. You catch it, no big deal. You stay home for a few weeks and carry on with life.

Okay, so we do just that, we open up the economy. What's likely to happen? That flattened curve will no longer be flat, It will resume going upwards. But hey, at least people are back at work or continuing their life, right?

That's true, but it makes people like me have to live this isolated lifestyle for months and perhaps well over another year. Is that okay with you?

So lets turn that around just a little. Is it alright to take other people's house and car and savings away just so you aren't inconvenienced?
Is it ok to increase our national debt just so you aren't inconvenienced?

I think there can be a happy middle ground to this. I say keep it this way until there are easily enough N-95 masks for everybody. If the mask you wear isn't an N-95, it isn't providing adequate protection. It's only helping stop the spread of the virus if you have it.

Once again do you consider your needs above many others?

Not at all. I'm just thinking of what could work for everybody. Like I said, something in the middle. Hey, I have an IRA in the market too. My last statement said I lost around 25%. Not happy. What I want to see is to make sure our medical personnel are well protected, our first responders, and then people like myself who are at a high fatality risk get these masks. If I have some protection being that I live in an area with high infection rates, I'll be glad to wear a mask for a year or whenever to see this economy rip roaring again.

I understand we can't live like this until August. Too much economic damage to recover from.

Well I am at least glad you understand that we can't live with everyone hiding under the bed forever. But are you going to be upset because Florida is opening up now? Are you going to be crying that Texas will be by May?
I saw my IRA down also but I just stopped taking an out until it comes back.
The people I care about is the family with a house payment, a car payment and probably living paycheck to paycheck. The little bit they got in a stimulus check is not going to go far. So do we keep spending on the Feds credit card just little bits of money or do we force everyone of them to get use to shelters, breadlines and welfare?

As I was saying to Kyzr, unemployment with the federal contribution is pretty generous at this time. I'm sure there will be many people making more money sitting at home than they did working. So I'm really not concerned on how they pay their bills.

I'm not too worried about my IRA either. It's invested with a very fine company, and I have no immediate plans to use it. My real concern is that we don't have a relapse of this problem, only tenfold. Not only am I at high risk, both of my parents are in their late 80's, and they have plenty of medical problems themselves. The more people in my environment that has this thing, the higher risk of me or a member of my family catching it.


The President and our Governors are having to perform a balancing act. There is no right or wrong decision here. If we move too fast, that could be devastating to our health. If we move too slow, it may be devastating to our economy. I feel for those leaders right now. No matter what they decide, you can't blame them one way or the other.

I also feel that this debt should be repaid by all of us once we get things back on track. I think we should have a federal consumption tax until everything we are spending on today slowly gets paid back tomorrow. Say ten cents on every dollar spent. Yes, it will take quite a bit of time to repay it, but I think it's something we need to do in order to secure our financial future.

Let’s not forget that you said that you would not work if you could receive enough money from “welfare”. That’s you. A “conservative”.

You project.

Do you think I haven't seen this before? I've lived through several recessions; two major ones. I know how people not working feel about staying on unemployment if they can make ends meet that way. I've seen people stay on it until it's very last day. I've seen people on it and working under the table for cash.

A late friend of mine worked at the steel mills. When he got laid off, the union paid him 90% of his pay, he was still able to collect unemployment since the government and unions are both criminals, and he worked under the table. He used to laugh telling me how he was making so much more money not working than working. He waited until the mills sent him a letter to return to work because he would never answer the phone if he knew it was them calling.

I'm glad you think that "most" Americans don't think like that, but to your chagrin, they do. Don't believe me, just look at the food stamp growth under DumBama, when supposedly, he got the economy going again. It wasn't until the Republican Governors started to make requirements that those people started to drop out of the program.

I could be wrong but I hear people saying they want to go back to work so I make the assumption that they are telling each other the truth.
Every time I hear people complain about something during this time I can't help but think about history.
I wonder how many would have made it when we had polio, the Spanish flu or any of the other things that we have had over history.
I can't help but think of how many would have made it out of the boats during DDay.
I can't help but wonder how many could have survived when milk, meat, and almost everything else was rationed.
Then I wonder if the generations now have enough cereal and milk or toilet paper.
I remember families sending sons and fathers off to war before we had instant communication, before we had correspondents on the battlefield. They knew that they may not hear from them for weeks or months. Sometimes people were notified of a son or fathers death and days later get a letter from them.
Now I wonder how people get by with only emails, phone calls, video chat.

My father likes to tell stories about his pathetic childhood. He and his five siblings grew up in a house about the size of a three car garage. They were on welfare, but welfare back then meant the kids pulling their red wagon to the fire station five miles down the road. There, the firemen would fill up their wagon with fruits and vegetables.

When they wanted a real treat, they walked 15 miles to the next city. They knew a woman that would make them peanut butter and jelly sandwiches. They had to eat their sandwiches behind her garage. If my grandfather found out they were begging, he would beat the hell out of them.

They had no natural gas, propane heat or plumbing. In the winters, which can be pretty brutal up north, they had to use the outhouse in the backyard. With a family of seven, that hole filled up pretty quickly. It didn't even have a roof on it.

My father jokes that he joined the US Marines so he could finally know what it felt like to have three square meals a day. Of course, when you're in a bloodbath in a place like Korea, you burn off that food pretty quick.

Today, the government is asking that we sit home in front of our big screen, get paid well, watch our 400 cable or satellite television channels, and fool around on this internet to no end. Now we think that's too much to ask of citizens today to stop a pandemic. It's just more suffering that we can handle, and it's only been a few weeks.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

but I know how reading the truth destroys you.

and i know no POTUS in our history has EVER intentionally put so many Americans out of work Ray

~S~

You are so right. I don't know why Trump created this worldwide virus to put so many people out of work.

He didn't create it

But he's going to have to deal w/it Ray

I want a leader w/leadership

and i want it NOW!

~S~

He is dealing with it. What's your complaint?

No plan

~S~

Perhaps try watching his daily news conferences he has seven days a week. He talks about our status and plans every day.