Welfare should be ended completely

[Wyatt earp]

but it doesn't take care of being able to move to where jobs are being created


Why is that? Could it possibly be just possible that idiots for for democrats and run the jobs away in the first place and no one wants to creat jobs in democrat controlled high tax, high minimum wage , union states and city's.

God you guys are stupid.

We still paid taxes before 1913

But not federal the killer of killers.

We had a shit Army and Navy...Maybe 20th in the world
Horrible infrastructure, minimal electrical power, water systems, sewer systems

Our country became a major power after we passed income tax and federal reserve

We had a shit Army and Navy...Maybe 20th in the world

I thought that's what you guys want and strive for?

You bring up an interesting point

Our water system is at least 100 years old, bridges falling down etc..so where does all the money go?

We have cut way back on our tax structure and politicians want to brag about the new bridge they sponsored not the 100 year old water pipes they replaced

That's two things that piss me off, are water system and electrical grid totally sucks.

Its like they forgot about the water mains being blowing up a few years ago, flint being the tip of the ice burg

With the electrical grid it's not being protected from a huge solar flare or a EMP

 

[Wyatt earp]

What is that supposed to mean? Take for example Illinois governor Rauner is trying to clean up the fiscal mess but the democrats were fighting him tooth and nail.


.

Funny, Obama is trying to clean up the mess left by GWB and mostly what you hear from idiots like you is that the opposition he faces at every turn from the GOP congress is principled and right.

We were talking states, ok what has the republicans been fighting obama on reduce spending, fiscal responsibility? Social crap don't count.


.

All to protect their greedy idiot rich and giant corps- refusal to invest in Americans.

If you were a billionaire Franco would you have invested pre the Supreme court ruling on obama care?

I don't blame them...


That's why the recovery was so slow.

Had nothing to do with total GOP obstruction of typical solutions- infrastructure bill, tax cuts for the middle class, cheaper ED./training for 3-6 MILLION tech jobs, etc etc etc?

What? Obama made middle class tax cuts permanent yet he raised payroll taxes on us by what 2%

Again how did the republicans block obama from cheaper education on tech jobs? I have a New kid ~ a electrician ..

A black guy, who got Pell grants and put himself through megatronics training a the local college, while working as a $13 dollar an hour operator at a local plant.


.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Funny, Obama is trying to clean up the mess left by GWB and mostly what you hear from idiots like you is that the opposition he faces at every turn from the GOP congress is principled and right.

We were talking states, ok what has the republicans been fighting obama on reduce spending, fiscal responsibility? Social crap don't count.


.

All to protect their greedy idiot rich and giant corps- refusal to invest in Americans.

If you were a billionaire Franco would you have invested pre the Supreme court ruling on obama care?

I don't blame them...


That's why the recovery was so slow.

Had nothing to do with total GOP obstruction of typical solutions- infrastructure bill, tax cuts for the middle class, cheaper ED./training for 3-6 MILLION tech jobs, etc etc etc?

What? Obama made middle class tax cuts permanent yet he raised payroll taxes on us by what 2%

Again how did the republicans block obama from cheaper education on tech jobs? I have a New kid ~ a electrician ..

A black guy, who got Pell grants and put himself through megatronics training a the local college, while working as a $13 dollar an hour operator at a local plant.


.

P.s. I really like this kid he could go far in life. Real polite willing to learn old school and is teaching me New stuff what he learned in trade school.

 

[francoHFW]

Funny, Obama is trying to clean up the mess left by GWB and mostly what you hear from idiots like you is that the opposition he faces at every turn from the GOP congress is principled and right.

We were talking states, ok what has the republicans been fighting obama on reduce spending, fiscal responsibility? Social crap don't count.


.

All to protect their greedy idiot rich and giant corps- refusal to invest in Americans.

If you were a billionaire Franco would you have invested pre the Supreme court ruling on obama care?

I don't blame them...


That's why the recovery was so slow.

Had nothing to do with total GOP obstruction of typical solutions- infrastructure bill, tax cuts for the middle class, cheaper ED./training for 3-6 MILLION tech jobs, etc etc etc?

What? Obama made middle class tax cuts permanent yet he raised payroll taxes on us by what 2%

Again how did the republicans block obama from cheaper education on tech jobs? I have a New kid ~ a electrician ..

A black guy, who got Pell grants and put himself through megatronics training a the local college, while working as a $13 dollar an hour operator at a local plant.


.

Actually, Obama cut the payroll tax and the GOP refused to extend it.
They blocked all his proposals. Free community college, cheap training and loans, etc etc. Not reported on the GOP propaganda machine.

 

[francoHFW]

We still paid taxes before 1913

But not federal the killer of killers.

We had a shit Army and Navy...Maybe 20th in the world
Horrible infrastructure, minimal electrical power, water systems, sewer systems

Our country became a major power after we passed income tax and federal reserve

We had a shit Army and Navy...Maybe 20th in the world

I thought that's what you guys want and strive for?

You bring up an interesting point

Our water system is at least 100 years old, bridges falling down etc..so where does all the money go?

We have cut way back on our tax structure and politicians want to brag about the new bridge they sponsored not the 100 year old water pipes they replaced

That's two things that piss me off, are water system and electrical grid totally sucks.

Its like they forgot about the water mains being blowing up a few years ago, flint being the tip of the ice burg

With the electrical grid it's not being protected from a huge solar flare or a EMP

All to protect the bloated greedy idiot GOP rich.

 

[Picaro]

I wouldn't suggest getting rid of the system, but I know too many people who went on welfare as teen moms and are still on it decades later. Meanwhile, they have had more kids and it is a way of life. I am not convinced it's a minority who use it as a permanent solution. I don't see many who are actively trying to improve their skills so they can find a better job.

This would be a point if 'better jobs' were being created; they aren't. Reducing the country's population would bring the numbers of jobs created closer to population, but it doesn't take care of being able to move to where jobs are being created and afford that move. Tax breaks and outright subsidies for outsourcing need to be shut down as well. Over 80% of new jobs aren't really skilled jobs, and many of those employers claim need skills aren't jobs they can't train their own hirees to perform.

but it doesn't take care of being able to move to where jobs are being created


Why is that? Could it possibly be just possible that idiots for for democrats and run the jobs away in the first place and no one wants to creat jobs in democrat controlled high tax, high minimum wage , union states and city's.

God you guys are stupid.

Stupid is quoting people and not addressing what they said because you can't read and have no real idea what you're talking about, which is why you rely on silly assed juvenile ideological dumbassery as a substitute for genuine discussions.

Those in the Peanut Gallery can see post #148 for why people can;t move out of ghettos and race around the country to the latest boom town and put in apps for all those jobs at that new Wally World in Bump Hole Montana or where ever the latest 'hot job market' is. Make Federal programs truly Federal programs instead having to be trapped by state govt. systems and a lot of people will have the means to move instead of being trapped. Of course we know why both Democrats and Republican politicians would hate this, but screw them, and screw the ideological 'purist' simpletons and half-wits on both wings as well.

 

[TheGreatGatsby]

Racist signs on HIllary's campaign office walls TheGreatGatsby

Yea, why's your candidate so racist?

 

[Andylusion]

End it for the rich and expand it for the people that aren't well off. Make education and development of skills part of getting it.

Yeah... but many states have dozens of programs that require 'job training' as part of getting welfare. Aside from the massive amounts of corruption, it simply doesn't work.

Two examples, a large problem.

One, in Toledo Ohio, we had a welfare-to-work program, where the agency administering the program, sent people on the bus system for the entire day. They sat on the city busses riding around for 5 or 6 hours, signed their papers saying they did the class, and went home.

That was "job training" in their program.

Another program, allowed the individuals to pick what they wanted to do. The most famous was the people who went to learn hula dancing. But a better example, was a bunch of pot smoking garage band punks, who used the welfare-to-work program to pay for lesson on their respective instruments.

Can't argue with that one, can you? Do professional musicians make decent money? The Chicago Symphony Orchestra pays it's musicians an average wage of $140,000 a year. So could professional musician be a great career? Sure.

So the pot-smoking garage band punks, get welfare, and free electric guitar lessons, on tax payer money. Brilliant.

Then you have the other side, which is people who simply don't want to do anything.

I had a manager at McDonald's, who had a degree in architecture. She doesn't use it obviously. No amount of architecture is required to flip over burgers, or tell Tim to run the drive through register.

You have people who sign up, simply don't learn anything, or drop out. Tennessee has free community college for people, and they still have a drop out rate of nearly 50%. People had this bonkers idea that giving students free education, meant they would all stay in school, and have Utopian 100% graduation rate.

Wrong, still hovering around 50% dropout rates.

We have phrases for this like "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". The same is true of people. You can give them all the job training you want, and they'll even go if that's what it takes to get their welfare. But getting them to learn? That's a different story.

You can't force people to learn. No amount of incentives or programs is going to change that. You might as well take your tax money, pile it up in the street, and burn it.

This is why in Europe, as much as people like to talk about how generous the Nordic welfare system is.... it seems everyone completely ignores the fact that there is no welfare at all in most of those countries. Zero. No welfare. None.

Most of them only have unemployment compensation. And when it runs out... it's out. You done. You either work, or starve to death.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

End it for the rich and expand it for the people that aren't well off. Make education and development of skills part of getting it.

Yeah... but many states have dozens of programs that require 'job training' as part of getting welfare. Aside from the massive amounts of corruption, it simply doesn't work.

Two examples, a large problem.

One, in Toledo Ohio, we had a welfare-to-work program, where the agency administering the program, sent people on the bus system for the entire day. They sat on the city busses riding around for 5 or 6 hours, signed their papers saying they did the class, and went home.

That was "job training" in their program.

Another program, allowed the individuals to pick what they wanted to do. The most famous was the people who went to learn hula dancing. But a better example, was a bunch of pot smoking garage band punks, who used the welfare-to-work program to pay for lesson on their respective instruments.

Can't argue with that one, can you? Do professional musicians make decent money? The Chicago Symphony Orchestra pays it's musicians an average wage of $140,000 a year. So could professional musician be a great career? Sure.

So the pot-smoking garage band punks, get welfare, and free electric guitar lessons, on tax payer money. Brilliant.

Then you have the other side, which is people who simply don't want to do anything.

I had a manager at McDonald's, who had a degree in architecture. She doesn't use it obviously. No amount of architecture is required to flip over burgers, or tell Tim to run the drive through register.

You have people who sign up, simply don't learn anything, or drop out. Tennessee has free community college for people, and they still have a drop out rate of nearly 50%. People had this bonkers idea that giving students free education, meant they would all stay in school, and have Utopian 100% graduation rate.

Wrong, still hovering around 50% dropout rates.

We have phrases for this like "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". The same is true of people. You can give them all the job training you want, and they'll even go if that's what it takes to get their welfare. But getting them to learn? That's a different story.

You can't force people to learn. No amount of incentives or programs is going to change that. You might as well take your tax money, pile it up in the street, and burn it.

This is why in Europe, as much as people like to talk about how generous the Nordic welfare system is.... it seems everyone completely ignores the fact that there is no welfare at all in most of those countries. Zero. No welfare. None.

Most of them only have unemployment compensation. And when it runs out... it's out. You done. You either work, or starve to death.

That isnt the case in the UK. There are two levels of benefit. The first level is based on your previous tax contributions and lasts for 12 months. The second level is a subsistence payment and is open ended. However you have to show that you are actively looking for work. It can be withdrawn if you do not do so.

 

[GWV5903]

Funny, Obama is trying to clean up the mess left by GWB

Funny, it's 43's fault but because Obama can't succeed, he's a VICTIM!!

mostly what you hear from idiots like you is that the opposition he faces at every turn from the GOP congress is principled and right.

Again, he failed because of the GOP, the fucker can't win for losing, LOL!!

He has been so mistreated...

 

[Kondor3]

The only reason I can think of why we have so many people not in the work force is that food stamps is better which is why those programs should be ended.

Republicans are the ones responsible for off-shoring and outsourcing American jobs to cheap overseas slave labor.

Republicans are the ones responsible for hiring tidal waves of Illegal Immigrants; thereby depressing wages in many trades and lines of work.

And now we're supposed to listen to these Corporatist Butt-Buddies and their hare-brained ideas about how to reduce welfare rolls?

Uhhhhh... yeah... right.

Bring back all of the American jobs you've sold down the river in the past thirty or forty years and then we'll talk about it... bastards.

 

[candycorn]

Funny, Obama is trying to clean up the mess left by GWB

Funny, it's 43's fault but because Obama can't succeed, he's a VICTIM!!

mostly what you hear from idiots like you is that the opposition he faces at every turn from the GOP congress is principled and right.

Again, he failed because of the GOP, the fucker can't win for losing, LOL!!

He has been so mistreated...

bear513 was using the same excuse…for one of his guys. I was just pointing out that when the same thing was said about Obama, idiots like you don’t believe it.

 

[Wyatt earp]

Funny, Obama is trying to clean up the mess left by GWB

Funny, it's 43's fault but because Obama can't succeed, he's a VICTIM!!

mostly what you hear from idiots like you is that the opposition he faces at every turn from the GOP congress is principled and right.

Again, he failed because of the GOP, the fucker can't win for losing, LOL!!

He has been so mistreated...

bear513 was using the same excuse…for one of his guys. I was just pointing out that when the same thing was said about Obama, idiots like you don’t believe it.

I always feel the love around you and betty boop.

Have no idea what this thread is about.

But thanks candy for always thinking of me.

Love ya candy always will.

 

[GWV5903]

Funny, Obama is trying to clean up the mess left by GWB

Funny, it's 43's fault but because Obama can't succeed, he's a VICTIM!!

mostly what you hear from idiots like you is that the opposition he faces at every turn from the GOP congress is principled and right.

Again, he failed because of the GOP, the fucker can't win for losing, LOL!!

He has been so mistreated...

bear513 was using the same excuse…for one of his guys. I was just pointing out that when the same thing was said about Obama, idiots like you don’t believe it.

She's in NH with Sellout Bernie claiming to give households with less than a $125K in income FREE COLLEGE EDUCATIONS!!

How is she going to pay for this?

She just got through saying you cannot refinance your student loans?

Yeah the Liberal Left panders to the poor victim mentality of so many...

 

[Andylusion]

We still paid taxes before 1913

But not federal the killer of killers.

We had a shit Army and Navy...Maybe 20th in the world
Horrible infrastructure, minimal electrical power, water systems, sewer systems

Our country became a major power after we passed income tax and federal reserve

We had a shit Army and Navy...Maybe 20th in the world

I thought that's what you guys want and strive for?

You bring up an interesting point

Our water system is at least 100 years old, bridges falling down etc..so where does all the money go?

We have cut way back on our tax structure and politicians want to brag about the new bridge they sponsored not the 100 year old water pipes they replaced

That's two things that piss me off, are water system and electrical grid totally sucks.

Its like they forgot about the water mains being blowing up a few years ago, flint being the tip of the ice burg

With the electrical grid it's not being protected from a huge solar flare or a EMP

I don't know off hand, what threat an EMP or solar flare is, or the cost/benefit analysis is on putting up enough shielding to protect from what kind of damage. Thus I'm not in a position to argue either way.

Nor do I know what kind of water infrastructure upgrades are required where.

But the problem we on the right-wing tend to have with this argument is this....

In 2008, the Democrats had 100% control over the house, 100% control over the senate with a filibuster proof majority, and of course control over the executive.

The left-wing had the entire US government in their pocket.

Not only this, but they also passed several large government policies, including a massive 'stimulus' package.

Yet directly after the Stimulus package, and up until the present day, we've heard how we need to do these other projects. So why were they not done?

And when you ask such questions, the left-wing automatically defaults to a lack of tax revenue, which is exactly what you saw in this thread. The moment you ask why something wasn't do, idiot-winger instantly defaulted to "wah, tax revenue". Which is a joke.

First, Obama spent $1 Trillion dollar deficits for four years straight. Lack of revenue has never stopped the mindless irresponsible left from spending.

Second: "We have cut way back on our tax structure" Total BS. Just absolutely wrong. As he ALWAYS is.

Tax revenue as of 2015, was 18% of GDP. The last time the amount of tax revenue was significantly higher than 18%, was in 1945, at the end of WW2, when it reached 20% of GDP.

The amount of money the US government is collecting relative to GDP is higher today than it was in the 1950s, 60s, 70s, 80s, about on par with the 1990s... and contrary to the moronic belief about the massive Bush tax cuts... in 2007 before the economy tanked, the Federal government collected 17.7% of GDP. Only 0.3% difference between what it is now, and not much different than the amount collected as a % of GDP, since the 1940s.

The entire claim that tax revenue is horribly low, is completely and total cow poop.

But back to the main point.

I look at many times where the government could have done anything it wanted, without restraint of any kind, and they never do these projects that I'm told over and over, are so vital. I'm constantly bombarded with eminent doom from these catastrophic events that are going to wipe out the water supply, or electrical grid, or bridges and highways, and yet over and over the government does not do them.

I look at the $20 Billion spent on green energy grants, and guaranteed loans. I look $20 Billion on the train unions, AmTrak, and so on. I look at $70 Billion on unemployment comp extensions, welfare, and food stamps.

And yet, they don't replace the water mains, and electrical grid.

That leads me to two conclusions.

One: If we allow the rabid left, to jack up taxes and drastically increase tax revenue.... how do we know they will do these programs you think are vital, when they clearly didn't with the money they already spent?

Two: If no one over the past 20 years has done any of these projects, then how do you know they are so vital? Perhaps they reason they are not done, is because they are not as important as we assume?

I have to say that the more cynical side of me, thinks it is entirely possible some of these projects are intentionally not done, because if they were done, then how would the left-wing justify non-stop tax hikes? See I think they know these projects are not as dire as some suggest. So they keep trying to raise taxes, but intentionally not doing these projects, because it's more useful to them to keep these projects unfinished to use as justification to raise taxes.

My answer to these kinds of questions, remains generally the same as always.... let the states handle it. Let the cities handle it.

Let the people who need such things, pay for their things. Do you really think that someone is going to set off an EMP in Iowa, and wipe out power to.... corn and hog farmers? You really think they are going to attack the power grid in Wisconsin and shut down a few paper mills?

On the other hand, a bunch of banks in New York city? Sure. So why not let the people of New York city, pay to have their power grids beefed up? If that's a real concern, let the people pay for it.

Same with water. How about California charge a higher price for water, instead of subsidizing it, if they need to replace their water mains? Why should I be forced to pay for California's water problems?

This is the big issue for me. When you force other people, to pay for the irresponsibility of others, that encourages irresponsibility. Many of the areas facing water problems, are areas that have government regulated water utilities subsidizing cheap water to residents. Then they want tax payers all over the country to bail out their stupidity. Well if we do that, what are they going to do? Keep being stupid.

So, no, I'm not for that.

 

[Andylusion]

The only reason I can think of why we have so many people not in the work force is that food stamps is better which is why those programs should be ended.

Republicans are the ones responsible for off-shoring and outsourcing American jobs to cheap overseas slave labor.

Republicans are the ones responsible for hiring tidal waves of Illegal Immigrants; thereby depressing wages in many trades and lines of work.

And now we're supposed to listen to these Corporatist Butt-Buddies and their hare-brained ideas about how to reduce welfare rolls?

Uhhhhh... yeah... right.

Bring back all of the American jobs you've sold down the river in the past thirty or forty years and then we'll talk about it... bastards.

Please explain how?

 

[Andylusion]

End it for the rich and expand it for the people that aren't well off. Make education and development of skills part of getting it.

Yeah... but many states have dozens of programs that require 'job training' as part of getting welfare. Aside from the massive amounts of corruption, it simply doesn't work.

Two examples, a large problem.

One, in Toledo Ohio, we had a welfare-to-work program, where the agency administering the program, sent people on the bus system for the entire day. They sat on the city busses riding around for 5 or 6 hours, signed their papers saying they did the class, and went home.

That was "job training" in their program.

Another program, allowed the individuals to pick what they wanted to do. The most famous was the people who went to learn hula dancing. But a better example, was a bunch of pot smoking garage band punks, who used the welfare-to-work program to pay for lesson on their respective instruments.

Can't argue with that one, can you? Do professional musicians make decent money? The Chicago Symphony Orchestra pays it's musicians an average wage of $140,000 a year. So could professional musician be a great career? Sure.

So the pot-smoking garage band punks, get welfare, and free electric guitar lessons, on tax payer money. Brilliant.

Then you have the other side, which is people who simply don't want to do anything.

I had a manager at McDonald's, who had a degree in architecture. She doesn't use it obviously. No amount of architecture is required to flip over burgers, or tell Tim to run the drive through register.

You have people who sign up, simply don't learn anything, or drop out. Tennessee has free community college for people, and they still have a drop out rate of nearly 50%. People had this bonkers idea that giving students free education, meant they would all stay in school, and have Utopian 100% graduation rate.

Wrong, still hovering around 50% dropout rates.

We have phrases for this like "You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink". The same is true of people. You can give them all the job training you want, and they'll even go if that's what it takes to get their welfare. But getting them to learn? That's a different story.

You can't force people to learn. No amount of incentives or programs is going to change that. You might as well take your tax money, pile it up in the street, and burn it.

This is why in Europe, as much as people like to talk about how generous the Nordic welfare system is.... it seems everyone completely ignores the fact that there is no welfare at all in most of those countries. Zero. No welfare. None.

Most of them only have unemployment compensation. And when it runs out... it's out. You done. You either work, or starve to death.

That isnt the case in the UK. There are two levels of benefit. The first level is based on your previous tax contributions and lasts for 12 months. The second level is a subsistence payment and is open ended. However you have to show that you are actively looking for work. It can be withdrawn if you do not do so.

I don't consider the UK, to be Europe. Never have, in fact. So if you do, then I refer to the part where I said "as much as people like to talk about how generous the Nordic welfare".

Now obviously having only been in London as a tourist for 3 days, I know less than you.

However, I have in the past had some friends that lived in Britain. What they told me does not match what you claimed. When you say they have to show they are actively looking for work... I'm not sure what that means. Because I know a man right now, who smokes pot, and plays video games. He does not work, and does not do so intentionally. He lives on government benefit.

His girlfriend demanded he get a job, and he did so for a few weeks and quit. He still collects benefit, unless he was lying to me. Which I highly doubt he was lying because he played video games constantly. I asked him how he was paying for internet, and he told me the government provides it.

He's using government welfare to eat, play games, and I betcha that's how he's buying his pot, and of course he has housing assistance.

So when you say he has to prove he's looking for work.... what does that mean? Because he hasn't worked for at least 5 years now. Likely longer. I didn't ask him how long he's been on this life plan.

 

[Tommy Tainant]

Unless he has some serious disability, which he may have.

He will have to attend an interview at the job centre every two weeks. At that interview he will have to provide evidence of applications made and interviews attended and so on.
The job centre will provide him with a list of suitable positions he can apply for and they follow this up..
Under the first tier of unemployment he has some choice as to what to apply for but after a while he is expected to apply for anything that pays a wage.

The sick are also under attack. There are many stories of people receiving "go back to work" letters on the day of their funerals. Suicides are also rife amongst the disabled and the government tried to cover up the figures for years.

Thousands have died after being found fit for work, DWP figures show

Its not an easy ride at all.



Atos scandal: Benefits bosses admit over half of people ruled fit to work ended up destitute



New claims of Atos assessment lies are ‘tip of a massive iceberg’



'This brutal new system': a GP's take on Atos and work capability assessments | Anna Pilkington



Atos scandal, conference highlights and growing inequality in the UK

 

[Wyatt earp]

The only reason I can think of why we have so many people not in the work force is that food stamps is better which is why those programs should be ended.

Republicans are the ones responsible for off-shoring and outsourcing American jobs to cheap overseas slave labor.

Republicans are the ones responsible for hiring tidal waves of Illegal Immigrants; thereby depressing wages in many trades and lines of work.

And now we're supposed to listen to these Corporatist Butt-Buddies and their hare-brained ideas about how to reduce welfare rolls?

Uhhhhh... yeah... right.

Bring back all of the American jobs you've sold down the river in the past thirty or forty years and then we'll talk about it... bastards.

No the consumer is the one responsible for off shoring jobs fuck head they gave you what you wanted

 

[my2¢]

I haven't studied it but would think all that welfare money is being recycled right back into the economy. I'm all for cleaning up the system but am not there yet on eliminating it completely. I first need an understanding of the effects of any collateral consequences.