We're all being hoodwinked!

I'm sure America's best and brightest will invest 10 years and $400k into earning a medical degree only to be fucked over by the mooching left in a single payer government healthcare cabal. /sarcasm
First of becoming a doctor doesn't entail debt in my country,
If you drive the cost down of earning a medical degree. You need to earn less during your career.

Are you dumb? Holy shit what dimwit liberal arts college taught you that?
Medical School in Belgium « Mind On Medicine
This is how it goes in my country. Compare this to getting that degree in the US. Just to make up for your college loan as a doctor in the US you would have to charge considerably more. Basic math. 0 debt or 400k in the hole. Who will charge more?
 
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Free market mechanisms and government policies are mutually exclusive. The reason health care is so expensive is because of excessive government meddling.
Explain to me way you think the free market is better suited to dispense healthcare?

Because the free market has worked for thousands of years. Communism has only been around for 90 or so odd years, and it's failed every time.
There is a huge difference between communism and the government providing basic services that shouldn't have a for profit motive. As I said it works in my country and we have a free market economy, just not for things that are deemed human necessities. Education, health, prisons , food, shelter, to name some basics.

So why shouldn't the government make a profit? After just watching Obama double the national debt, would you agree that government should be run like a business instead of a charity?
 
I'm sure America's best and brightest will invest 10 years and $400k into earning a medical degree only to be fucked over by the mooching left in a single payer government healthcare cabal. /sarcasm
First of becoming a doctor doesn't entail debt in my country,
If you drive the cost down of earning a medical degree. You need to earn less during your career.

Are you dumb? Holy shit what dimwit liberal arts college taught you that?
Medical School in Belgium « Mind On Medicine
This is how it goes in my country. Compares this to getting that degree in the US. Just to make up for your college loan as a doctor in the US you would have to charge considerably more. Basic math. 0 debt or 400k in the hole. Who will charge more?

Your country is messed up in the head.
 
I'm sure America's best and brightest will invest 10 years and $400k into earning a medical degree only to be fucked over by the mooching left in a single payer government healthcare cabal. /sarcasm
First of becoming a doctor doesn't entail debt in my country,
If you drive the cost down of earning a medical degree. You need to earn less during your career.

Are you dumb? Holy shit what dimwit liberal arts college taught you that?
Please explain the fault in this reasoning if you are that smart.

Okay, do you want the best and brightest performing your surgery? Well that cost a more money. Pay doctors shit and the best and brightest will do something else for a living.
Really? Well for your information, becoming a doctor is a highly popular degree here. So much so that it's the only degree that entails an entry exam from high school. An entry exam that has a success rate of less then 20 percent. So no, the best and the brightest in my country do become doctors, they have to be the best because they won't qualify if their not.Ruim 12 procent slaagt voor "uitzonderlijk moeilijk" toelatingsexamen geneeskunde 12 percent in 2016.
 
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Free market mechanisms and government policies are mutually exclusive. The reason health care is so expensive is because of excessive government meddling.
Explain to me way you think the free market is better suited to dispense healthcare?

Because the free market has worked for thousands of years. Communism has only been around for 90 or so odd years, and it's failed every time.
There is a huge difference between communism and the government providing basic services that shouldn't have a for profit motive. As I said it works in my country and we have a free market economy, just not for things that are deemed human necessities. Education, health, prisons , food, shelter, to name some basics.

So why shouldn't the government make a profit? After just watching Obama double the national debt, would you agree that government should be run like a business instead of a charity?
Health is a right not a business opportunity.
 
I'm sure America's best and brightest will invest 10 years and $400k into earning a medical degree only to be fucked over by the mooching left in a single payer government healthcare cabal. /sarcasm
First of becoming a doctor doesn't entail debt in my country,
If you drive the cost down of earning a medical degree. You need to earn less during your career.

Are you dumb? Holy shit what dimwit liberal arts college taught you that?
Medical School in Belgium « Mind On Medicine
This is how it goes in my country. Compares this to getting that degree in the US. Just to make up for your college loan as a doctor in the US you would have to charge considerably more. Basic math. 0 debt or 400k in the hole. Who will charge more?

Your country is messed up in the head.
Is that the best you can do? No actual argument? What's messed up about debt free college?
 
As we all argue about Obamacare vs. Trumpcare vs. Single-payer vs. no federal healthcare program, we're all falling into a nonsensical narrative. NONE of these approaches deals with the real problem in healthcare:

The cost of healthcare is way, way to high!

I'd like you all to tell us your ideas on how to reduce the cost of healthcare. To forget the typical partisanship.

Heathcare cost could be reduced thru free market mechanisms, it could be reduced by government policies. It could be some combination of both...or perhaps some new innovative ideas.

What are your ideas?


All the rest of the civilized world has come to the conclusion that getting medicine and seeing a doctor is a right all human beings have. Except in the US. This is the last bastion for the selfish greedies to hold up in. And they have a small but vocal following of water-carriers that have been convinced to vote and act against their own self interest. This is slowly thankfully being overcome. The majority of the American people would like to see healthcare settled and be able to see a doctor and get medicine without going bankrupt or having to choose between medicine and eating dog food.

In the end once all the other detritus is cleared away it comes down to whether you believe all humans have dignity by birthright or whether dignity is something you have to buy like laxative. The rest of the world has already figured this out. Most in the US have already figured it out as well.
 
As we all argue about Obamacare vs. Trumpcare vs. Single-payer vs. no federal healthcare program, we're all falling into a nonsensical narrative. NONE of these approaches deals with the real problem in healthcare:

The cost of healthcare is way, way to high!

I'd like you all to tell us your ideas on how to reduce the cost of healthcare. To forget the typical partisanship.

Heathcare cost could be reduced thru free market mechanisms, it could be reduced by government policies. It could be some combination of both...or perhaps some new innovative ideas.

What are your ideas?

The problem with "freemarket " is that much of health care is a necessity. And what does the market do wh necessities? Price gouging.
 
What are your ideas?

I've been posting my ideas on here for years.

Ready? It is going to be longer than a tweet.

1. We should be buying our health insurance the same way we buy our home, auto, and life insurance. I should be able to pick up the phone and call any insurance company in the country and buy the insurance I want. This way, I have maximum leverage since I can hang up if I am not satisfied and call any one of a constellation of competitors, just like I do now with my home, auto, and life insurance.

2. We need to eliminate employer sponsored health insurance (ESHI). ESHI is one of the biggest drivers of increasing health care costs. Also, employees are completely hostage to their employer's insurance. There is no negotiation. It is a take it or leave it proposition from a single insurer. And if you lose your job, you lose your health insurance. And you don't get new insurance until you have been in your new job for up to six months. With my home, auto, and life insurance, I get bundle discounts and long term customer discounts.

We can easily disincentivize ESHI by eliminating the tax exemption we currently have for ESHI.

3. We need LESS government in health care, not more. The government is the biggest market entity in the health insurance market, and it gets to write the rules for its private sector competitors. This is not the case in the auto, home, and life insurance markets, where prices have been DROPPING.

4. Raise the Social Security and Medicare eligibility ages to 70 immediately and index to 9 percent of the population going forward. When Social Security was enacted, the average life expectancy was 60 and only 6 percent of Americans were over the age of 65. When Medicare was added on top, 9 percent of Americans were over the age of 65. Today, average life expectancy is 78 and nearly 15 percent of Americans are over the age of 65. We have nearly tripled our "entitlement" load.

We are living longer, we should be working longer.

Social Security was insurance. Not everyone was expected to collect. Now it is an entitlement.

We need to index the retirement age to either life expectancy or back to 9 percent of the population.

When we average life expectancy to 100 years, are we going to live one third of our lives on Social Security? I don't think so! We clearly need to raise the eligibility age.

Raise the eligibility age to 70. That's not even life expectancy, but you would be paying into Social Security and Medicare five more years and drawing out five less years. That's an astronomical savings of federal outlays right there.
You had me until number four. If the government can't run healthcare what makes you think they can run retirement? And why do they get to decide you work until 70? And you get what out of it exactly? Every month you can make it past 70 you get 1,200 bucks. After working and paying in all your life you don't get anything better than poverty. And if you die they don't even pay your wife. They keep all of that money. SS is a huge scam. Why would anyone sign up for that?
 
There's only one payer.

Not really, who pays the payer? Can you guess? Let me give you a hint: It begins with "Tax" and ends with "Payer". The government won't pay out of the goodness of their heart. The money HAS to come out of the pocket of someone, or are you one of those that thinks all the fruits of our labor belong to the government ad that it's kind of them to let us keep some of it?

70% tax (such as what small country Europe has) will kill off what's left of our economy and, by extension, America as well. And besides, if everyone is forced to go under a Socialist VA style healthcare system, healthcare quality will suffer because finding good doctors will be difficult. Not to mention prescription drugs coverage would be dismal. The VA going low bid on drugs has limited the quality of them. All they get is generic drugs and many of them simply don't work as well, or not at all, as brand names.

They used to give me a brand name nasal spray for a chronic sinus issue I have that worked quite well. Not they are giving me a generic "equivalent" that isn't even close to being a similar formula that doesn't help at all. This just ONE problem with VA care. There are many more, like doctor transfers. If you do happen to get a decent, they don't hang around more than a couple of years before they either quit, or go to a different hospital.

I wouldn't wish this type of healthcare off on anyone, even a clueless Liberal like yu.
 
As we all argue about Obamacare vs. Trumpcare vs. Single-payer vs. no federal healthcare program, we're all falling into a nonsensical narrative. NONE of these approaches deals with the real problem in healthcare:

The cost of healthcare is way, way to high!

I'd like you all to tell us your ideas on how to reduce the cost of healthcare. To forget the typical partisanship.

Heathcare cost could be reduced thru free market mechanisms, it could be reduced by government policies. It could be some combination of both...or perhaps some new innovative ideas.

What are your ideas?

The problem with "freemarket " is that much of health care is a necessity. And what does the market do wh necessities? Price gouging.
Is getting your car fixed a necessity? Yes. Is getting your toilet fixed a necessity? Yes. How many mechanics and plumbers can you call? The market works fine if you let it.
 
Free market mechanisms and government policies are mutually exclusive. The reason health care is so expensive is because of excessive government meddling.
Explain to me way you think the free market is better suited to dispense healthcare?

Because the free market has worked for thousands of years. Communism has only been around for 90 or so odd years, and it's failed every time.
There is a huge difference between communism and the government providing basic services that shouldn't have a for profit motive. As I said it works in my country and we have a free market economy, just not for things that are deemed human necessities. Education, health, prisons , food, shelter, to name some basics.

So why shouldn't the government make a profit? After just watching Obama double the national debt, would you agree that government should be run like a business instead of a charity?
Health is a right not a business opportunity.
What kind of right is health?
 
Explain to me way you think the free market is better suited to dispense healthcare?

Because the free market has worked for thousands of years. Communism has only been around for 90 or so odd years, and it's failed every time.
There is a huge difference between communism and the government providing basic services that shouldn't have a for profit motive. As I said it works in my country and we have a free market economy, just not for things that are deemed human necessities. Education, health, prisons , food, shelter, to name some basics.

So why shouldn't the government make a profit? After just watching Obama double the national debt, would you agree that government should be run like a business instead of a charity?
Health is a right not a business opportunity.
What kind of right is health?

That's what I'd like to know. Ask him to point out the section of the U.S. Constitution that say we have the right to health care. Or Free rent. Or Obamaphones.
 
Because the free market has worked for thousands of years. Communism has only been around for 90 or so odd years, and it's failed every time.
There is a huge difference between communism and the government providing basic services that shouldn't have a for profit motive. As I said it works in my country and we have a free market economy, just not for things that are deemed human necessities. Education, health, prisons , food, shelter, to name some basics.

So why shouldn't the government make a profit? After just watching Obama double the national debt, would you agree that government should be run like a business instead of a charity?
Health is a right not a business opportunity.
What kind of right is health?

That's what I'd like to know. Ask him to point out the section of the U.S. Constitution that say we have the right to health care. Or Free rent. Or Obamaphones.
Leftists don't have a regard for the law of the land.
 
There is a huge difference between communism and the government providing basic services that shouldn't have a for profit motive. As I said it works in my country and we have a free market economy, just not for things that are deemed human necessities. Education, health, prisons , food, shelter, to name some basics.

So why shouldn't the government make a profit? After just watching Obama double the national debt, would you agree that government should be run like a business instead of a charity?
Health is a right not a business opportunity.
What kind of right is health?

That's what I'd like to know. Ask him to point out the section of the U.S. Constitution that say we have the right to health care. Or Free rent. Or Obamaphones.
Leftists don't have a regard for the law of the land.
They think they just have a right to free. Free stuff is all they care about. Fuck the person paying. I shouldn't have to pay.
 
As we all argue about Obamacare vs. Trumpcare vs. Single-payer vs. no federal healthcare program, we're all falling into a nonsensical narrative. NONE of these approaches deals with the real problem in healthcare:

The cost of healthcare is way, way to high!

I'd like you all to tell us your ideas on how to reduce the cost of healthcare. To forget the typical partisanship.

Heathcare cost could be reduced thru free market mechanisms, it could be reduced by government policies. It could be some combination of both...or perhaps some new innovative ideas.

What are your ideas?


All the rest of the civilized world has come to the conclusion that getting medicine and seeing a doctor is a right all human beings have. Except in the US. This is the last bastion for the selfish greedies to hold up in. And they have a small but vocal following of water-carriers that have been convinced to vote and act against their own self interest. This is slowly thankfully being overcome. The majority of the American people would like to see healthcare settled and be able to see a doctor and get medicine without going bankrupt or having to choose between medicine and eating dog food.

In the end once all the other detritus is cleared away it comes down to whether you believe all humans have dignity by birthright or whether dignity is something you have to buy like laxative. The rest of the world has already figured this out. Most in the US have already figured it out as well.
How do you figure that's a right? Do you have the right to the doctor of your choice? Or just some doctor the government tells you to see? Do you have a right to the best healthcare that can be provided or do you get the government to decide what you deserve?

You have a right to talk, you have a right to arm yourself if you buy a gun. Where do those rights equal walking into a doctors office and demanding care?
 
I agree with the OP 100% but the insurance, medical, & pharmaceutical lobbies are SO powerful that no Democratic or Republican President has EVER been able to reform the system!

Despite all of Obummer's talk about looking out for the poor & taking on the rich he didn't do JACK to go after the pharmaceutical lobby or the big bankers among others!!
 
As we all argue about Obamacare vs. Trumpcare vs. Single-payer vs. no federal healthcare program, we're all falling into a nonsensical narrative. NONE of these approaches deals with the real problem in healthcare:

The cost of healthcare is way, way to high!

I'd like you all to tell us your ideas on how to reduce the cost of healthcare. To forget the typical partisanship.

Heathcare cost could be reduced thru free market mechanisms, it could be reduced by government policies. It could be some combination of both...or perhaps some new innovative ideas.

What are your ideas?


All the rest of the civilized world has come to the conclusion that getting medicine and seeing a doctor is a right all human beings have. Except in the US. This is the last bastion for the selfish greedies to hold up in. And they have a small but vocal following of water-carriers that have been convinced to vote and act against their own self interest. This is slowly thankfully being overcome. The majority of the American people would like to see healthcare settled and be able to see a doctor and get medicine without going bankrupt or having to choose between medicine and eating dog food.

In the end once all the other detritus is cleared away it comes down to whether you believe all humans have dignity by birthright or whether dignity is something you have to buy like laxative. The rest of the world has already figured this out. Most in the US have already figured it out as well.
How do you figure that's a right? Do you have the right to the doctor of your choice? Or just some doctor the government tells you to see? Do you have a right to the best healthcare that can be provided or do you get the government to decide what you deserve?

You have a right to talk, you have a right to arm yourself if you buy a gun. Where do those rights equal walking into a doctors office and demanding care?

The leftists are always misconstruing the part that says they have the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". They erroneously believe that the framers of the Constitution meant the "right to life" means government-furnished health care, a free education, food, housing, internet, and Obamaphones. But that's not really what the architects of the Constitution meant.

Funny thing though, they sure have no problem denying unborn children their right to life.
 
As we all argue about Obamacare vs. Trumpcare vs. Single-payer vs. no federal healthcare program, we're all falling into a nonsensical narrative. NONE of these approaches deals with the real problem in healthcare:

The cost of healthcare is way, way to high!

I'd like you all to tell us your ideas on how to reduce the cost of healthcare. To forget the typical partisanship.

Heathcare cost could be reduced thru free market mechanisms, it could be reduced by government policies. It could be some combination of both...or perhaps some new innovative ideas.

What are your ideas?


All the rest of the civilized world has come to the conclusion that getting medicine and seeing a doctor is a right all human beings have. Except in the US. This is the last bastion for the selfish greedies to hold up in. And they have a small but vocal following of water-carriers that have been convinced to vote and act against their own self interest. This is slowly thankfully being overcome. The majority of the American people would like to see healthcare settled and be able to see a doctor and get medicine without going bankrupt or having to choose between medicine and eating dog food.

In the end once all the other detritus is cleared away it comes down to whether you believe all humans have dignity by birthright or whether dignity is something you have to buy like laxative. The rest of the world has already figured this out. Most in the US have already figured it out as well.
How do you figure that's a right? Do you have the right to the doctor of your choice? Or just some doctor the government tells you to see? Do you have a right to the best healthcare that can be provided or do you get the government to decide what you deserve?

You have a right to talk, you have a right to arm yourself if you buy a gun. Where do those rights equal walking into a doctors office and demanding care?

The leftists are always misconstruing the part that says they have the right to "life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness". They erroneously believe that the framers of the Constitution meant the "right to life" means government-furnished health care, a free education, food, housing, internet, and Obamaphones. But that's not really what the architects of the Constitution meant.

Funny thing though, they sure have no problem denying unborn children their right to life.
Isn't that socialism all day long? You have a right until they decide you don't.
 

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