We're Lowering Your Wages

[RodISHI]

but Since The Market Won't Bear It, And Not To Mention That I Wouldn't Hire You Because I Don't Like You, I'd Just Turn The Hose On You And Chase You Away.

Lol

 

[Skull Pilot]

$12.00 an hour would be a living wage. Corporate resturants, stores etc.... should never be able to split the hair and only pay worker $5.00 an hour or waitresses $2.30 an hour (Iowa waitresses).


BTW, Rod says, "You probably would not know the set tolerance of a rivet or it's grip length any more than you would know the grip length of your peter." "But a lot of those "monkeys" out there can quote these specs."

gee something one can read on a spec sheet. yeah i guess being able to read is worth 60k a year

and if you want waitresses to get paid 12 an hour, that's cool I won't have to tip them anymore.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

$12.00 an hour would be a living wage. Corporate resturants, stores etc.... should never be able to split the hair and only pay worker $5.00 an hour or waitresses $2.30 an hour (Iowa waitresses).


BTW, Rod says, "You probably would not know the set tolerance of a rivet or it's grip length any more than you would know the grip length of your peter." "But a lot of those "monkeys" out there can quote these specs."

If people agree to work for this amount then what is the problem? They are able to seek employment elsewhere if the offered wage doesn't seem adequate to them.

Also, how many waitresses would there be if they all made $12/hour? My guess would be far less than there are now. The ones that get to keep their job, great for them I suppose. They're going to have to pick up the slack of those that didn't keep their job, but they're getting paid more so I suppose that's alright. But what about the ones that lose their job? Now they have to seek employment elsewhere, and they have to compete with x number of other laid off waitresses plus those that were already looking for a job in the first place.

 

[Gem]

Actually....$12 an hour serving jobs are usually absolutely terrible!

I lifeguarded at a country club that did not want its members to have to worry about tipping the servers at the clubhouse...so they paid them $12 an hour and told the club members that tips were covered in the servers pay.

What happened?

The servers were overjoyed and stayed for years and years thanking their lucky stars that they landed a job with a "living wage."

No...not exactly.

The waiters and waitresses quickly figured out that even though the club house was busy...they could never make as much money at $12 an hour as they could at any number of other restaurants at $2.30 per hour plus tips.

The customers at the club were just as demanding as customers at other restaurants...just as prone to get angry when things went wrong...but there was no incentive to be an excellent server...no reason to push for the customers to get higher priced items, or alcohol that would push up the tab...so many on the wait-staff became so-so servers...why rush when being GREAT at the job got you the same amount of money as being OK at the job? And the clubhouse missed out on all the opportunities to upsale items by having the waitstaff push appetizers or desserts.

And finally...because the wages weren't all that great afterall...and the motivation to be a great server wasn't there...the turnover rate was ridiculously high...while us lifeguards loved our minimum wage (we only got 6 something an hour) and came back year after year, making sure that we applied early and did a good job all summer long so that we would be hired back...the waiters left after a few months tops...and good servers wouldn't apply...meaning that the club members were paying "top dollar" for inexperienced, uncaring servers...that left as soon as they figured out what was going on.

"Living wage" sounds great and all....as long as you willfully ignore all of the potential problems of requiring a business to pay its employees are certain amount.

 

[Paulie]

If people agree to work for this amount then what is the problem? They are able to seek employment elsewhere if the offered wage doesn't seem adequate to them.

Also, how many waitresses would there be if they all made $12/hour? My guess would be far less than there are now. The ones that get to keep their job, great for them I suppose. They're going to have to pick up the slack of those that didn't keep their job, but they're getting paid more so I suppose that's alright. But what about the ones that lose their job? Now they have to seek employment elsewhere, and they have to compete with x number of other laid off waitresses plus those that were already looking for a job in the first place.

This is a huge reason why tips should not be taxed.

 

[RodISHI]

If people agree to work for this amount then what is the problem? They are able to seek employment elsewhere if the offered wage doesn't seem adequate to them.

So does this mean you think people should be forced to work for five dollars an hour when there is nothing else in their area?

The mentality of if you do not like it find another job does not cut it. If this is the only lame excuse that anyone can come up with why they are not willing to pay employees a wage that covers the basic needs to live, they need to get out of business or fully relocate to a country where workers are not treated as an asset.


If employers are unwilling to part with a portion of the annual profits and commit those profits to be invested in the community in which the employer is located they should be trashed. If an employer simply wants to turn a profit and bag the money for it's upper echelon management and CEO's then they shouldn't be suprised much less insulted when their local workforce rises up against them. People are sick and tired of the corporate greedy's taking the money and running. This is done when a raider buys a company, trims it's fat off the backs of the worker and sells off the debris.

If a company wants to set on the only lily pad in the pond. You better have the structure and the ability to control the water. When the pond gets drained you go with it. Nothing of this world lasts forever. However, the world will always have the poor. We all have a duty as citizens and caretakers to assist these who are less fortunate. A closed minded person who thinks that only the worker is affected by substandard pay is ignorant.

A poor man loves his children just as much as a rich man loves his. Anyone that does not know this and understand it is further gone than I had even considered. People need to wake up. This is not a problem that will be going away. It will be dealt with.

As always it's a rich man's war and a poor man's fight. Gated communities won't provide protection when you have to venture outside of that gate.

My son lives in one of those gated communities. Yet he would never consider denying a poor man the ability to take care of his family.

Anyone that wants to work should be able to. However, you have to pick the fruit from the tree before you. If the fruit is tainted who can eat it?

Anyone saying that a man/woman does not deserve a living wage is only willing to plant before that poor man a tree that only grows tainted fruit.

If you truly believe that the only way to improve oneself is to go to a learning institution or to a library you are a sad excuse for a human being. Do you not know that a poor man built that learning institution and library for you to house your memorabilia. It is all an age old problem that will not be solved by you or me. Nevertheless, it is here and it is not going to go away as you may wish. Like I said, the pond is being drained. Didn't they teach you in college that this day would come? "Whatever the market will bear" is not gonna fly anymore bub. Neither is like it or leave it.

Also, how many waitresses would there be if they all made $12/hour? My guess would be far less than there are now. The ones that get to keep their job, great for them I suppose. They're going to have to pick up the slack of those that didn't keep their job, but they're getting paid more so I suppose that's alright. But what about the ones that lose their job? Now they have to seek employment elsewhere, and they have to compete with x number of other laid off waitresses plus those that were already looking for a job in the first place.

Not all restaurant owners pay their waitresses $2.30 an hour and expect the tips to make up for the rest. Fact is many sleazy corporate restaurants do though. Personally I will not support any of these restaurants that pay their waitresses this measely wage.

Not everyone tips waitresses. Fact is most waitresses must share their tips in a tip pool jar.

If I tip anyone for any service it is becasue they provided a good service. Meaning they put an extra effort in serving me and I appreciated it. Not because I need to supplement some restaurants income.

 

[Paulie]

If I tip anyone for any service it is becasue they provided a good service. Meaning they put an extra effort in serving me and I appreciated it. Not because I need to supplement some restaurants income.

You should be tipping them simply for serving you your food. You didn't have to lift a finger. You got to sit on your ass while someone making less than $5/hr brought you a hot meal. Who really cares how much extra effort they put in? The whole point of going out to eat is to have someone else make you a good meal.

 

[Gem]

Fact is - sleazy corporate restaurants rarely if even have trouble finding people who are willing to serve for $2.30 an hour because they know that the potential to make SIGNIFICANTLY more than that is good - even after tip-sharing with the bartenders, hosts, and busboys.

Restaurants that do not give servers enough of an opportunity to make money have trouble keeping skilled servers on staff.

 

[Paulie]

Fact is - sleazy corporate restaurants rarely if even have trouble finding people who are willing to serve for $2.30 an hour because they know that the potential to make SIGNIFICANTLY more than that is good - even after tip-sharing with the bartenders, hosts, and busboys.

Restaurants that do not give servers enough of an opportunity to make money have trouble keeping skilled servers on staff.

And that's the beauty of the market.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

So does this mean you think people should be forced to work for five dollars an hour when there is nothing else in their area?

The mentality of if you do not like it find another job does not cut it. If this is the only lame excuse that anyone can come up with why they are not willing to pay employees a wage that covers the basic needs to live, they need to get out of business or fully relocate to a country where workers are not treated as an asset.


If employers are unwilling to part with a portion of the annual profits and commit those profits to be invested in the community in which the employer is located they should be trashed. If an employer simply wants to turn a profit and bag the money for it's upper echelon management and CEO's then they shouldn't be suprised much less insulted when their local workforce rises up against them. People are sick and tired of the corporate greedy's taking the money and running. This is done when a raider buys a company, trims it's fat off the backs of the worker and sells off the debris.

If a company wants to set on the only lily pad in the pond. You better have the structure and the ability to control the water. When the pond gets drained you go with it. Nothing of this world lasts forever. However, the world will always have the poor. We all have a duty as citizens and caretakers to assist these who are less fortunate. A closed minded person who thinks that only the worker is affected by substandard pay is ignorant.

A poor man loves his children just as much as a rich man loves his. Anyone that does not know this and understand it is further gone than I had even considered. People need to wake up. This is not a problem that will be going away. It will be dealt with.

As always it's a rich man's war and a poor man's fight. Gated communities won't provide protection when you have to venture outside of that gate.

My son lives in one of those gated communities. Yet he would never consider denying a poor man the ability to take care of his family.

Anyone that wants to work should be able to. However, you have to pick the fruit from the tree before you. If the fruit is tainted who can eat it?

Anyone saying that a man/woman does not deserve a living wage is only willing to plant before that poor man a tree that only grows tainted fruit.

If you truly believe that the only way to improve oneself is to go to a learning institution or to a library you are a sad excuse for a human being. Do you not know that a poor man built that learning institution and library for you to house your memorabilia. It is all an age old problem that will not be solved by you or me. Nevertheless, it is here and it is not going to go away as you may wish. Like I said, the pond is being drained. Didn't they teach you in college that this day would come? "Whatever the market will bear" is not gonna fly anymore bub. Neither is like it or leave it.




Not all restaurant owners pay their waitresses $2.30 an hour and expect the tips to make up for the rest. Fact is many sleazy corporate restaurants do though. Personally I will not support any of these restaurants that pay their waitresses this measely wage.

Not everyone tips waitresses. Fact is most waitresses must share their tips in a tip pool jar.

If I tip anyone for any service it is becasue they provided a good service. Meaning they put an extra effort in serving me and I appreciated it. Not because I need to supplement some restaurants income.

I'll recommend "Economics In One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt to you as well.

 

[RodISHI]

I'll recommend "Economics In One Lesson" by Henry Hazlitt to you as well.

Is Hazlitt your hero?

 

[Paulie]

Is Hazlitt your hero?

Such a mature response.

 

[Care4all]

You should be tipping them simply for serving you your food. You didn't have to lift a finger. You got to sit on your ass while someone making less than $5/hr brought you a hot meal. Who really cares how much extra effort they put in? The whole point of going out to eat is to have someone else make you a good meal.

i wonder why wouldn't that just be in the price of the meal, as wages for sales clerks is put in to the price of the product they sell?

 

[RodISHI]

Such a mature response.

Hitler had a free market theory. As long as he controlled the market. His was a superior market manned by superior labor to enforce his will for his free market.

Today it is a bit more sublime. Just tell the people to put their savings into something called "investment backed securities" and then wipe out the markets. Oops, they are all just sheep anyway. "We can make them think we are really working so hard to help them secure their futures".

 

[Paulie]

i wonder why wouldn't that just be in the price of the meal, as wages for sales clerks is put in to the price of the product they sell?

Most servers make less than $5/hr in wages. If tips were in the price of the meal, and patrons took that into consideration, we'd probably end up with no more servers in a pretty short amount of time.

 

[Gem]

Care4all Wrote:

i wonder why wouldn't that just be in the price of the meal, as wages for sales clerks is put in to the price of the product they sell?

Because part of being a server is "service." The prompt taking of orders, refilling of drinks, bringing the check, etc. These are things that are necessary to have a pleasant dining out experience that are often the sole responsibility of the server.

If you paid $25 instead of $15.99 for your steak dinner and had a server who didn't check back to see if you needed more sour cream...never refilled your drink after you finished it during the appetizer...took forever to bring your check...and messed up your bill....

Your only real recourse would be to seek out the manager to ask for a refund. The manager would be forced to either give you a discount or a free meal...or risk pissing off a customer.

This way...you can show your displeasure directly to your server, while still paying the restaurant for your food.

Is it a perfect system? No...people often are shitty tippers...sometimes people take out their frustration over food taking a long time on the server, when it isn't the servers fault...and worst of all, some people eat their entire meal and then complain horribly just to get out of paying...

But RodISHIs plan of requiring restaurants to pay servers a "living wage" is, in my opinion...a true recipe for crappy service

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Is Hazlitt your hero?

I'm not sure how that's relevant, but no Henry Hazlitt is not my personal hero. He had a great mind for economics however, and this book is extremely relevant to this discussion.

 

[Kevin_Kennedy]

Hitler had a free market theory. As long as he controlled the market.

Thus, it was not a free market.

 

[Bern80]

So $12.00 an hour is your minimum. That's the threshold for a standard of living for you. And we've established that you believe ALL employers should be paying at least that. The other aspect you clearly haven't thought about is that wage isn't necessary for some people. How about someone simply looking for supplemental income? How about teenagers getting their first jobs? Do you really want to teach them that their is perfectly viable alternative to learning? You can't deny that is what you would be doing.

Since we're on the subject I assume you have offered that guy that cleans your garage a 2 dollar raise right?

You still haven't given one good explanation as to why I am incorrect about what will happen under your proposal by the way.

Say it all you want. You simply do not understand how an economy works. So I will ask you again. Once your porposal is in place what do you think the country is going to look like in terms of unemployment rates? Up? Down?

 

[RodISHI]

Thus, it was not a free market.

Neither is today's market.