What beliefs define a 21st Century American conservative?

[M14 Shooter]

Most all republicans are certain that they are correct.

How is this related to the question asked?

The origional question was:
What beliefs define a 21st Century American conservative?
Think about it a bit.

The question referenced consrtvatives.
Your response referenced Republcans.
Thus, your response is not related.

 

[Mac1958]

You ever think about posting facts?
ABsolutists. Pshaw. Thhat's what the lily-livered called conservatives.
The Democrats are the adults. Yeah. THey failed to pass a budget for how many months now? They failed to deal with the deficit how often? Remember the commission that Obama handpicked and then disregarded their recommendations? How many bills to deal with all this has Reid scuttled in the Senate? Yeah, he's an adult all right.
Daniels didnt run because he didnt want to expose his wife to the media hostility.
Christie didnt run because he isn't a Republican outside of NJ
Bush didnt run because, well you can figure that one out on your own.

"Lily-livered" - great stuff, you're a hoot Rabbi. You're a wonderful caricature of a hardcore right winger, all bluster and simplistic Rushisms. I'd love to drag a similar hardcore left winger in here, blubbering about Mother Earth and hope & change, and watch you two go at it with all your winger goofiness.

Too funny.

.

 

[Wry Catcher]

You understand if people didn't have to pay the taxes required for social security that they'd have more money right? You also understand that if americans were given a tax cut from social security being done away with, and then put those savings into a low interest earning account, that once they were seniors they'd have much more money than they get through social security, right?

No, I don't understand that. Maybe I'm cynical or your naive but if such were the case predatory capitalists (think Bernard Madoff) would leave many citizens with nothing. SS lasts for ever; explain to me how much money one would need to save for the two or more decades most will life past their retirement date?

SS is guaranteed; as we saw in October 2008 that ain't so with the financial services industry.

Lol it's you're naive hunny bunny. If you're going to attack someone's mental capacity be able to use the proper words, like any 3rd grade elementary student would be expected to.

But no it would be you that's naive. Bernie Madoff doesn't control the tax rate, your government heroes do. Less taxes and less government spending=more money in your pocket=more money you can save, and even the worst, biggest rip off of savings account will give you more than social security does.

The ONLY argument the lovers of social security can use is that government is better with your money than you are, which is as pathetic as it gets.

Millions of Americans receive their Soc. Sec. checks each month and have for years. How much did Madoff's investors receive?

Keep in mind we the people can change the federal government every two years; no one was able to vet Bernie and have him removed from 'office' nor the CEO's of the too big to fail who managed to lose billions of dollars of money placed in their trust.

It's unfortunate that the OWS has been co opted by petty criminals and extreme leftists, almost as unfortunate as the conservative movement has been co opted by far right extremists. Luckily the real protesters of OWS have recognized extremism isn't tolerated by mainstream Americans and distanced themselves from the radicals. OWS is cleaning house and refining their message.

Too bad real conservatives haven't the balls to do so.

 

[The Rabbi]

You ever think about posting facts?
ABsolutists. Pshaw. Thhat's what the lily-livered called conservatives.
The Democrats are the adults. Yeah. THey failed to pass a budget for how many months now? They failed to deal with the deficit how often? Remember the commission that Obama handpicked and then disregarded their recommendations? How many bills to deal with all this has Reid scuttled in the Senate? Yeah, he's an adult all right.
Daniels didnt run because he didnt want to expose his wife to the media hostility.
Christie didnt run because he isn't a Republican outside of NJ
Bush didnt run because, well you can figure that one out on your own.

"Lily-livered" - great stuff, you're a hoot Rabbi. You're a wonderful caricature of a hardcore right winger, all bluster and simplistic Rushisms. I'd love to drag a similar hardcore left winger in here, blubbering about Mother Earth and hope & change, and watch you two go at it with all your winger goofiness.

Too funny.

.

Yeah, lily livered. The Democrats are too gutless to confront the major issues, which is the explosion of entitlement spending. That's why they try to put it off on special committees etc. They are all scared shitless of their constitutents. They don't want riots in the streets ala Europe.
The GOP candidates, many of them anyway, aren't scared. They want to address these issues and solve the problems. The Democrats want to avoid the problems.
That's the difference in a nutshell.

 

[Full-Auto]

No, I don't understand that. Maybe I'm cynical or your naive but if such were the case predatory capitalists (think Bernard Madoff) would leave many citizens with nothing. SS lasts for ever; explain to me how much money one would need to save for the two or more decades most will life past their retirement date?

SS is guaranteed; as we saw in October 2008 that ain't so with the financial services industry.

Lol it's you're naive hunny bunny. If you're going to attack someone's mental capacity be able to use the proper words, like any 3rd grade elementary student would be expected to.

But no it would be you that's naive. Bernie Madoff doesn't control the tax rate, your government heroes do. Less taxes and less government spending=more money in your pocket=more money you can save, and even the worst, biggest rip off of savings account will give you more than social security does.

The ONLY argument the lovers of social security can use is that government is better with your money than you are, which is as pathetic as it gets.

Millions of Americans receive their Soc. Sec. checks each month and have for years. How much did Madoff's investors receive?

Keep in mind we the people can change the federal government every two years; no one was able to vet Bernie and have him removed from 'office' nor the CEO's of the too big to fail who managed to lose billions of dollars of money placed in their trust.

It's unfortunate that the OWS has been co opted by petty criminals and extreme leftists, almost as unfortunate as the conservative movement has been co opted by far right extremists. Luckily the real protesters of OWS have recognized extremism isn't tolerated by mainstream Americans and distanced themselves from the radicals. OWS is cleaning house and refining their message.

Too bad real conservatives haven't the balls to do so.

Comical, The tea party pretty much trashes that rant all by itself.

 

[The Rabbi]

No, I don't understand that. Maybe I'm cynical or your naive but if such were the case predatory capitalists (think Bernard Madoff) would leave many citizens with nothing. SS lasts for ever; explain to me how much money one would need to save for the two or more decades most will life past their retirement date?

SS is guaranteed; as we saw in October 2008 that ain't so with the financial services industry.

Lol it's you're naive hunny bunny. If you're going to attack someone's mental capacity be able to use the proper words, like any 3rd grade elementary student would be expected to.

But no it would be you that's naive. Bernie Madoff doesn't control the tax rate, your government heroes do. Less taxes and less government spending=more money in your pocket=more money you can save, and even the worst, biggest rip off of savings account will give you more than social security does.

The ONLY argument the lovers of social security can use is that government is better with your money than you are, which is as pathetic as it gets.

Millions of Americans receive their Soc. Sec. checks each month and have for years. How much did Madoff's investors receive?

Keep in mind we the people can change the federal government every two years; no one was able to vet Bernie and have him removed from 'office' nor the CEO's of the too big to fail who managed to lose billions of dollars of money placed in their trust.

It's unfortunate that the OWS has been co opted by petty criminals and extreme leftists, almost as unfortunate as the conservative movement has been co opted by far right extremists. Luckily the real protesters of OWS have recognized extremism isn't tolerated by mainstream Americans and distanced themselves from the radicals. OWS is cleaning house and refining their message.

Too bad real conservatives haven't the balls to do so.

In a Ponzi scheme earlier investors are paid off with money from later investors. That can last as long as the operator can attract new suckers.
In Madoff's case, he ran out of suckers. IN the US government's case they can coerce suckers indefintely.

 

[M14 Shooter]

No, I don't understand that. Maybe I'm cynical or your naive but if such were the case predatory capitalists (think Bernard Madoff) would leave many citizens with nothing. SS lasts for ever; explain to me how much money one would need to save for the two or more decades most will life past their retirement date?

SS is guaranteed; as we saw in October 2008 that ain't so with the financial services industry.

Lol it's you're naive hunny bunny. If you're going to attack someone's mental capacity be able to use the proper words, like any 3rd grade elementary student would be expected to.

But no it would be you that's naive. Bernie Madoff doesn't control the tax rate, your government heroes do. Less taxes and less government spending=more money in your pocket=more money you can save, and even the worst, biggest rip off of savings account will give you more than social security does.

The ONLY argument the lovers of social security can use is that government is better with your money than you are, which is as pathetic as it gets.

Millions of Americans receive their Soc. Sec. checks each month and have for years. How much did Madoff's investors receive?

Keep in mind we the people can change the federal government every two years; no one was able to vet Bernie and have him removed from 'office' nor the CEO's of the too big to fail who managed to lose billions of dollars of money placed in their trust.

It's unfortunate that the OWS has been co opted by petty criminals and extreme leftists, almost as unfortunate as the conservative movement has been co opted by far right extremists. Luckily the real protesters of OWS have recognized extremism isn't tolerated by mainstream Americans and distanced themselves from the radicals. OWS is cleaning house and refining their message.

Too bad real conservatives haven't the balls to do so.

Still waiting for you to respond for the list you asked me to give you.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Lol it's you're naive hunny bunny. If you're going to attack someone's mental capacity be able to use the proper words, like any 3rd grade elementary student would be expected to.

But no it would be you that's naive. Bernie Madoff doesn't control the tax rate, your government heroes do. Less taxes and less government spending=more money in your pocket=more money you can save, and even the worst, biggest rip off of savings account will give you more than social security does.

The ONLY argument the lovers of social security can use is that government is better with your money than you are, which is as pathetic as it gets.

Millions of Americans receive their Soc. Sec. checks each month and have for years. How much did Madoff's investors receive?

Keep in mind we the people can change the federal government every two years; no one was able to vet Bernie and have him removed from 'office' nor the CEO's of the too big to fail who managed to lose billions of dollars of money placed in their trust.

It's unfortunate that the OWS has been co opted by petty criminals and extreme leftists, almost as unfortunate as the conservative movement has been co opted by far right extremists. Luckily the real protesters of OWS have recognized extremism isn't tolerated by mainstream Americans and distanced themselves from the radicals. OWS is cleaning house and refining their message.

Too bad real conservatives haven't the balls to do so.

Comical, The tea party pretty much trashes that rant all by itself.

So you say. And what you say is very little and never substantive. You, Rabbi, Willow Tree, CrusaderFrank and a dozen more regulars are all the same - echo chamber members. Rarely have I read a post from any of you which was original or suggested some real thought was behind it.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Lol it's you're naive hunny bunny. If you're going to attack someone's mental capacity be able to use the proper words, like any 3rd grade elementary student would be expected to.

But no it would be you that's naive. Bernie Madoff doesn't control the tax rate, your government heroes do. Less taxes and less government spending=more money in your pocket=more money you can save, and even the worst, biggest rip off of savings account will give you more than social security does.

The ONLY argument the lovers of social security can use is that government is better with your money than you are, which is as pathetic as it gets.

Millions of Americans receive their Soc. Sec. checks each month and have for years. How much did Madoff's investors receive?

Keep in mind we the people can change the federal government every two years; no one was able to vet Bernie and have him removed from 'office' nor the CEO's of the too big to fail who managed to lose billions of dollars of money placed in their trust.

It's unfortunate that the OWS has been co opted by petty criminals and extreme leftists, almost as unfortunate as the conservative movement has been co opted by far right extremists. Luckily the real protesters of OWS have recognized extremism isn't tolerated by mainstream Americans and distanced themselves from the radicals. OWS is cleaning house and refining their message.

Too bad real conservatives haven't the balls to do so.

Still waiting for you to respond for the list you asked me to give you.

Post the number, I'll read and respond.

 

[The Rabbi]

Millions of Americans receive their Soc. Sec. checks each month and have for years. How much did Madoff's investors receive?

Keep in mind we the people can change the federal government every two years; no one was able to vet Bernie and have him removed from 'office' nor the CEO's of the too big to fail who managed to lose billions of dollars of money placed in their trust.

It's unfortunate that the OWS has been co opted by petty criminals and extreme leftists, almost as unfortunate as the conservative movement has been co opted by far right extremists. Luckily the real protesters of OWS have recognized extremism isn't tolerated by mainstream Americans and distanced themselves from the radicals. OWS is cleaning house and refining their message.

Too bad real conservatives haven't the balls to do so.

Comical, The tea party pretty much trashes that rant all by itself.

So you say. And what you say is very little and never substantive. You, Rabbi, Willow Tree, CrusaderFrank and a dozen more regulars are all the same - echo chamber members. Rarely have I read a post from any of you which was original or suggested some real thought was behind it.

And you and RDean and the other liberal asshats never post anything other than distortions and reprints of left distortions. No critical thinking required.

 

[M14 Shooter]

still waiting for you to respond for the list you asked me to give you.

post the number, i'll read and respond.

#33

 

[Full-Auto]

Millions of Americans receive their Soc. Sec. checks each month and have for years. How much did Madoff's investors receive?

Keep in mind we the people can change the federal government every two years; no one was able to vet Bernie and have him removed from 'office' nor the CEO's of the too big to fail who managed to lose billions of dollars of money placed in their trust.

It's unfortunate that the OWS has been co opted by petty criminals and extreme leftists, almost as unfortunate as the conservative movement has been co opted by far right extremists. Luckily the real protesters of OWS have recognized extremism isn't tolerated by mainstream Americans and distanced themselves from the radicals. OWS is cleaning house and refining their message.

Too bad real conservatives haven't the balls to do so.

Comical, The tea party pretty much trashes that rant all by itself.

So you say. And what you say is very little and never substantive. You, Rabbi, Willow Tree, CrusaderFrank and a dozen more regulars are all the same - echo chamber members. Rarely have I read a post from any of you which was original or suggested some real thought was behind it.

It doesnt take a great deal of thought to spot BS.

You gave an opinion which is weak at best and I commented.

If you can muster something other then the parroted lines of the DNC let me know.

To me you are just another tinfoil hat.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Comical, The tea party pretty much trashes that rant all by itself.

So you say. And what you say is very little and never substantive. You, Rabbi, Willow Tree, CrusaderFrank and a dozen more regulars are all the same - echo chamber members. Rarely have I read a post from any of you which was original or suggested some real thought was behind it.

And you and RDean and the other liberal asshats never post anything other than distortions and reprints of left distortions. No critical thinking required.

Rabbi, you're a liar. I don't know what other "asshats" post but I do know you're a liar and an asshole. That is neither a distortion nor a reprint of anything posted by anyone else. Of course I've reminded you of your character flaws several times now, normal people might examine their behavior and and consider why someone would be so brutally honest.

 

[Wry Catcher]

Comical, The tea party pretty much trashes that rant all by itself.

So you say. And what you say is very little and never substantive. You, Rabbi, Willow Tree, CrusaderFrank and a dozen more regulars are all the same - echo chamber members. Rarely have I read a post from any of you which was original or suggested some real thought was behind it.

It doesnt take a great deal of thought to spot BS.

You gave an opinion which is weak at best and I commented.

If you can muster something other then the parroted lines of the DNC let me know.

To me you are just another tinfoil hat.

Fine. Ignore me. Please.

 

[Full-Auto]

So you say. And what you say is very little and never substantive. You, Rabbi, Willow Tree, CrusaderFrank and a dozen more regulars are all the same - echo chamber members. Rarely have I read a post from any of you which was original or suggested some real thought was behind it.

It doesnt take a great deal of thought to spot BS.

You gave an opinion which is weak at best and I commented.

If you can muster something other then the parroted lines of the DNC let me know.

To me you are just another tinfoil hat.

Fine. Ignore me. Please.

NO WAY STUPIDITY SUCH AS YOURS SHOULD BE HIGHLIGHTED.

I take no issue treating democrats as they treat others.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Millions of Americans receive their Soc. Sec. checks each month and have for years.

This is no way guarantees that they will continue to do so, or at any particular level - SS benefits can be changed, even eliminated, at any time.

 

[Intense]

Right now, I would say anger. There seems to be a lot of unhappy campers around here.

Are you saying that occupiers are conservatives? \

FYI, anger is not a belief, it is an emotion.

I don't know that the occupiers had one philosophy over another politically.

As for anger being an emotion.....
I think their "emotion" then has become a way of life. Rabbi is talking about the problem we'll have with "old fags" due to the healthcare bill. This is the face of 21st century conservatism....almost borderline pure hatred.

Or .... pure projection. You are not speaking accurately for me at all.

 

[Wry Catcher]

There is far too much diversity in conservative beliefs to answer the question.
Best anyone can do is answer what he, as a conservative, believes.
Not surprisingly, the rabid liberal toadies fail to recognize either point.

Yet the self defined conservatives have not answered the basic question.

Well, as I said, that's because they caannot - no one can.

Would you care to reply and list a half dozen or more principles you hold which make you a conservative?

That's a different question.

I'll give you four:

-Great personal freedom = Great personal responsibility
You can choose to do what you want, but in doing so you also choose to accept the consequences for your action. You don't get to choose to make whatever decisions you want then expect others to forgive you for whatever damage you nay have caused or bail you out from the costs incurred. This applies to all aspects of life, from the point where you start making dscisions for yourself to the point where you stop.

-You, aand no one else, are responsible for you.
Your life is what you make of it. If you want to eat, buy food. If you want to be warm, buy clothes and a place to live. If you want to be safe, acquire the means to protect yourself. No one owes you these things and no one shold ever be put in a position of being forced to give them to you.

Related to above...

-You have no right to impose your morality on others
You may think it is wrong to let people starve, et al, but you have no right to force that morality on me - especially if you're the sort of person who will whine and cry should anyone ever try to do the same to you.

Similarly related...

-Government exists to protect the rgihts of the people, not provide them with the means to ecercise those rights.
This is the natural extension of the points noted above applied to the role of government. Following this principle will allievate any and all issues regarding debt/deficit/spending/revenue/taxes.

Sorry, I didn't respond until now. I appreciate your actual effort to list principles which have lead you to characterize yourself as a conservative, that you are one of the few (only?) able to do so is commendable.

Of course I agree in theory with your first principle; yet, in the real world I can think of a number of reasons why someone cannot act in the manner prescribed and must rely on an outside source, sometimes for their very survival.

I believe we all have accepted the social contract, either by affirmation or by default. By calling the police or EMT's one tacitly accepts the fact that no man is an island unto himself. We all have needs, many of us have the wit, wisdom and wherewithal to make it on our own. Others through fortune of birth, illness or accident do not.

Some bring misfortune upon themselves. I'm sure we both accept that as true. The cost, for example, to society of drug or alcohol abuse and addiction is enormous. Do we as a society allow such maladies to fester and grow or do we try to interdict?

Do we let the aged, infirm, disabled or children suffer? Or do we as a society decide to share our good fortune with those who are less fortunate?

I understand the Libertarian ideals and how one might find them to be the answer in the abstract. But in the real world, not so much. I see myself as pragmatic and reject the dogma of organized religion and political purity.

Sorry for the delay and once again thank you for your response.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Yet the self defined conservatives have not answered the basic question.

Well, as I said, that's because they caannot - no one can.

Would you care to reply and list a half dozen or more principles you hold which make you a conservative?

That's a different question.

I'll give you four:

-Great personal freedom = Great personal responsibility
You can choose to do what you want, but in doing so you also choose to accept the consequences for your action. You don't get to choose to make whatever decisions you want then expect others to forgive you for whatever damage you nay have caused or bail you out from the costs incurred. This applies to all aspects of life, from the point where you start making dscisions for yourself to the point where you stop.

-You, aand no one else, are responsible for you.
Your life is what you make of it. If you want to eat, buy food. If you want to be warm, buy clothes and a place to live. If you want to be safe, acquire the means to protect yourself. No one owes you these things and no one shold ever be put in a position of being forced to give them to you.

Related to above...

-You have no right to impose your morality on others
You may think it is wrong to let people starve, et al, but you have no right to force that morality on me - especially if you're the sort of person who will whine and cry should anyone ever try to do the same to you.

Similarly related...

-Government exists to protect the rgihts of the people, not provide them with the means to ecercise those rights.
This is the natural extension of the points noted above applied to the role of government. Following this principle will allievate any and all issues regarding debt/deficit/spending/revenue/taxes.

Of course I agree in theory with your first principle; yet, in the real world I can think of a number of reasons why someone cannot act in the manner prescribed and must rely on an outside source, sometimes for their very survival.

Not sure how this applies to my first principle, which discusses direct, personal responsibility for one's own actions.

I believe we all have accepted the social contract, either by affirmation or by default. By calling the police or EMT's one tacitly accepts the fact that no man is an island unto himself. We all have needs, many of us have the wit, wisdom and wherewithal to make it on our own. Others through fortune of birth, illness or accident do not.

Ok... and? See principle #3 and #4.

Some bring misfortune upon themselves. I'm sure we both accept that as true. The cost, for example, to society of drug or alcohol abuse and addiction is enormous. Do we as a society allow such maladies to fester and grow or do we try to interdict?

if you screw up, you get yourself out of it. if you suffer, you suffer.
You are responsible for you.

Do we let the aged, infirm, disabled or children suffer? Or do we as a society decide to share our good fortune with those who are less fortunate?

As I said....
You have no right to impose your morality on others
You may think it is wrong to let old/poor people starve, et al,...

I understand the Libertarian ideals and how one might find them to be the answer in the abstract. But in the real world, not so much.

On the contrary -- the 'solutions' developed from the principles are perfectly applicable to the real world; you simply refuse to accept those solutions due to your sense of morality and would rather force others to act according to your version of morality rather than let the unfortunate slip to the wayside.

Imposing ones' morality on others is among the most egregious acts one can commit.

 

[Dr.Drock]

No, I don't understand that. Maybe I'm cynical or your naive but if such were the case predatory capitalists (think Bernard Madoff) would leave many citizens with nothing. SS lasts for ever; explain to me how much money one would need to save for the two or more decades most will life past their retirement date?

SS is guaranteed; as we saw in October 2008 that ain't so with the financial services industry.

Lol it's you're naive hunny bunny. If you're going to attack someone's mental capacity be able to use the proper words, like any 3rd grade elementary student would be expected to.

But no it would be you that's naive. Bernie Madoff doesn't control the tax rate, your government heroes do. Less taxes and less government spending=more money in your pocket=more money you can save, and even the worst, biggest rip off of savings account will give you more than social security does.

The ONLY argument the lovers of social security can use is that government is better with your money than you are, which is as pathetic as it gets.

Millions of Americans receive their Soc. Sec. checks each month and have for years. How much did Madoff's investors receive?

Keep in mind we the people can change the federal government every two years; no one was able to vet Bernie and have him removed from 'office' nor the CEO's of the too big to fail who managed to lose billions of dollars of money placed in their trust.

It's unfortunate that the OWS has been co opted by petty criminals and extreme leftists, almost as unfortunate as the conservative movement has been co opted by far right extremists. Luckily the real protesters of OWS have recognized extremism isn't tolerated by mainstream Americans and distanced themselves from the radicals. OWS is cleaning house and refining their message.

Too bad real conservatives haven't the balls to do so.

Why quote someone's response when you don't reply to anything I say?

Yes the SS checks keep coming, the point is any SAVINGS account (not investment acconut) would provide a far better return than social security does. Social Security is nothing more than robbing people by scheming them with propaganda.

Put more money in people's pockets by gettin rid of SS and providing them with a tax cut and they can use those funds to make more money in a savings account than SS could ever provide. How ANYONE could view that as a bad thing is shocking.

It's another instance of how partisan politics conquers everything, even common sense.