Zone1 What exactly did Jesus mean when He said "Father, forgive them, they know not what they do"?

[sealybobo]

Seems like this conversation is rocking the foundation of your beliefs.

In 2037 we will know more about gravity

ESA Science & Technology - LISA

The Laser Interferometer Space Antenna (LISA) will be the first space-based gravitational wave observatory. Selected to be ESA's third large-class mission, it will address the science theme of the Gravitational Universe. LISA will consist of three spacecraft separated by 2.5 million km in a...

sci.esa.int

 

[ding]

So? They say the big bounce is possible and that would explain the problems scientists have with the singularity theory.

It's just a theory dude. You don't know what caused it or what was before it. We only know 300,000 years after the big bang.

And we don't know how fast it was going 200,000 years after either. All we know is it's picking up speed. So we seem to be still in the big bang. It's still banging. The explosion is still happening. Will it slow down or continue to expand faster and faster? If it does, will there be a big freeze.

So what does that mean when you say the sigularity is a math phenom not a physical one?

The singularity is the point at which the math in Friedmann’s solutions to Einstein’s field equations breaks down and yields infinite density. It’s not a physical phenomenon.

 

[ding]

I repeated that verbatim from the show I was watching. Yes, our observable universe did pop into existence. But that doesn't mean there aren't other universes popping into existence. And it doesn't mean our universe is eternal. It's just hard for you to accept that there may be more to the Universe than our universe.

A lot of scientists struggle with this. They won't even entertain the idea because it's unknowable.

You base your belief in god because of the unknowable. The more we learn the smaller your god gets. One day we may find the universe is not eternal but the Universe is.

You’ll have to show me where I argued against multiverses.

 

[nomadic5]

What does the big bang have to do with Jesus saying

Father, forgive them.....?

 

[sealybobo]

You’ll have to show me where I argued against multiverses.

OMG I saw a show on how the earth was made. Forget about how you say the universe has to be just right or life couldn't exist. That's amazing enough itself. And how we are just close enough to the sun for us to exist. I see why we believe a god must have done it. It sure looks like divine intervention. Where he put the moon just where it needs to be, etc.

But on this show the explained how Theia crashed into earth making us bigger, better, and created our moon?

Theia is a hypothesized ancient planet in the early Solar System that, according to the giant-impact hypothesis, collided with the early Earth around 4.5 billion years ago, with some of the resulting ejected debris gathering to form the Moon.

The scientists said Theia is down in the center of the earth surrounding the core, almost exactly like two hands protecting our core

How do they know it's there? Volcano's erupt and shoot out some of Theia rock and I guess it's the same age as the event

Earth contains buried chunks of an alien world that are 'millions of times larger than Mount Everest,' research suggests​

According to Yuan, these hands are between 1.5 and 3.5% more dense than the rest of Earth's mantle, and hotter.

 

[ding]

What does the big bang have to do with Jesus saying

Father, forgive them.....?

Nothing

 

[sealybobo]

Nothing

Today a guy was on NPR explaining how there are two types of Christians.



Bible scholar Bart Ehrman says interpretations of the Book of Revelation have created disastrous problems — from personal psychological damage to consequences for foreign policy and the environment.

I think that the Book of Revelation is not really about God's justice. Justice is not the word that gets used in Revelation. The word is wrath.

The book itself claims that it's about the wrath of God and the Lamb in Christ. The common words in Revelation are not words like love or hope or justice or mercy. The words are wrath, vengeance, revenge, blood, you know? So these are the terms, and they're not the terms that you find on the lips of Jesus in the Gospels. Jesus certainly thought that a destruction of the world was going to come, but he didn't think that God was going to be torturing people for five months without allowing them to die, as in the Book of Revelation.

So I think it really comes down to a choice. And the frightening thing is, I think increasingly in Christianity, especially in American Christianity, people are really more entranced with the violent, vengeful, wrathful Jesus of Revelation, even if they don't read it. That's the side they take, rather than the loving, caring, merciful Jesus of the Gospels.

GROSS: How are you seeing that expressed?

EHRMAN: Well, there's a lot of violence being sponsored by conservative Christians who are in support of, well, taking over the government, for example, who are in support of all sorts of opposition to social policies that might help people - so opposition to immigration, wanting to cut the budgets so that we don't help out the poor. We cut down on helping those who are desperately in need. But let's build up the defense budget, and let's invade some more.

 

[Crick]

The contemporary canon holds that Jesus' purpose for coming to Earth was to take on all the sins of humankind and suffer mortal death in punishment. If that was his purpose, why did he resist it in so many ways?

 

[Meriweather]

The contemporary canon holds that Jesus' purpose for coming to Earth was to take on all the sins of humankind and suffer mortal death in punishment. If that was his purpose, why did he resist it in so many ways?

Did Jesus say anything about taking on punishment?

My understanding is Jesus came to heal the rift between God and mankind. This was known as 'redemption'. He came for the lost, saying those who are healthy have no need of a physician.

He taught when a person turns from sin and to God sins are forgiven. There were people in power who wanted Jesus to cease and desist with this message. Jesus steadfastly stuck to the will of God, even though this persistence resulted with those in power putting him to death.

 

[ding]

Today a guy was on NPR explaining how there are two types of Christians.



Bible scholar Bart Ehrman says interpretations of the Book of Revelation have created disastrous problems — from personal psychological damage to consequences for foreign policy and the environment.

I think that the Book of Revelation is not really about God's justice. Justice is not the word that gets used in Revelation. The word is wrath.

The book itself claims that it's about the wrath of God and the Lamb in Christ. The common words in Revelation are not words like love or hope or justice or mercy. The words are wrath, vengeance, revenge, blood, you know? So these are the terms, and they're not the terms that you find on the lips of Jesus in the Gospels. Jesus certainly thought that a destruction of the world was going to come, but he didn't think that God was going to be torturing people for five months without allowing them to die, as in the Book of Revelation.

So I think it really comes down to a choice. And the frightening thing is, I think increasingly in Christianity, especially in American Christianity, people are really more entranced with the violent, vengeful, wrathful Jesus of Revelation, even if they don't read it. That's the side they take, rather than the loving, caring, merciful Jesus of the Gospels.

GROSS: How are you seeing that expressed?

EHRMAN: Well, there's a lot of violence being sponsored by conservative Christians who are in support of, well, taking over the government, for example, who are in support of all sorts of opposition to social policies that might help people - so opposition to immigration, wanting to cut the budgets so that we don't help out the poor. We cut down on helping those who are desperately in need. But let's build up the defense budget, and let's invade some more.

There’s a distribution for almost everything.

 

[ding]

The contemporary canon holds that Jesus' purpose for coming to Earth was to take on all the sins of humankind and suffer mortal death in punishment. If that was his purpose, why did he resist it in so many ways?

Because he was fully human. The sacrifice would have been meaningless if he weren’t. But I’m curious about your so many ways comment. How many ways were there?

 

[BreezeWood]

Did Jesus say anything about taking on punishment?

My understanding is Jesus came to heal the rift between God and mankind. This was known as 'redemption'. He came for the lost, saying those who are healthy have no need of a physician.

He taught when a person turns from sin and to God sins are forgiven. There were people in power who wanted Jesus to cease and desist with this message. Jesus steadfastly stuck to the will of God, even though this persistence resulted with those in power putting him to death.

There were people in power who wanted Jesus to cease and desist with this message.

the lies and deceptions of the jewish religion - the false commandments they claimed etched from the heavens used to persecute and victimize the innocent not just jesus, all those in that century who perished for the message of the prescribed religion of antiquity, liberation theology, self determination.

 

[nomadic5]

Father, forgive Breezy. He does not know what he is doing

 

[norwegen]

The contemporary canon holds that Jesus' purpose for coming to Earth was to take on all the sins of humankind and suffer mortal death in punishment. If that was his purpose, why did he resist it in so many ways?

Canon holds that his purpose was two-fold, neither of which was to punish him. He came into the world to bear witness to the truth (Jn 18:37). This was in reference to the kingdom of God. The kingdom was one reason he came:

I must preach the good news of the kingdom to the other towns as well; for I was sent for this purpose. (Lk 4:43)​

That's the gospel. The gospel is the kingdom of God, not Christ's death for humankind.

His other purpose for coming was judgment:

For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind. (Jn 9:39)​

This judgment, of course, would be in his own generation. The scribes and Pharisees realized their blindness when the Romans armies destroyed them (God was not on their side) while those who followed Christ were the righteous ones.

 

[nomadic5]

Canon holds that his purpose was two-fold, neither of which was to punish him. He came into the world to bear witness to the truth (Jn 18:37). This was in reference to the kingdom of God. The kingdom was one reason he came:

I must preach the good news of the kingdom to the other towns as well; for I was sent for this purpose. (Lk 4:43)​

That's the gospel. The gospel is the kingdom of God, not Christ's death for humankind.

His other purpose for coming was judgment:

For judgment I came into this world, that those who do not see may see, and those who see may become blind. (Jn 9:39)​

This judgment, of course, would be in his own generation. The scribes and Pharisees realized their blindness when the Romans armies destroyed them (God was not on their side) while those who followed Christ were the righteous ones.

Jesus prayed before the Crucifixion, that only if it were God's will would it happen

He said earlier than that something about how He willingly laid down his life, no one took it from Him

 

[norwegen]

Jesus prayed before the Crucifixion, that only if it were God's will would it happen

He said earlier than that something about how He willingly laid down his life, no one took it from Him

His death wasn't his ministry. He didn't even foretell his death until about the last year of his ministry. His ministry wasn't about himself.

His ministry was the kingdom of God, plain and simple.

 

[nomadic5]

His death wasn't his ministry. He didn't even foretell his death until about the last year of his ministry. His ministry wasn't about himself.

His ministry was the kingdom of God, plain and simple.

I don't see how there is any difference?

It appears to me that He was destined to die on the Cross.

"By His Stripes we are healed"

If a person meditates on His Passion, preferably by way of the Rosary, that person will understand that Scripture psg

 

[norwegen]

I don't see how there is any difference?

It appears to me that He was destined to die on the Cross.

"By His Stripes we are healed"

If a person meditates on His Passion, preferably by way of the Rosary, that person will understand that Scripture psg

Of course he knew he would be executed. He even knew how.

It wasn't the reason he came, though.

 

[nomadic5]

Of course he knew he would be executed. He even knew how.

It wasn't the reason he came, though.

I am not sure anyone can prove one way or the other. All I know is that Jesus is God and so He knew humans were capable of crucifying Him though he did no wrong, and if they are capable of it, they will do it 9 times out of 10 (10 out of 10 when/if they do not know Him).

I say He knew from the beginning

 

[norwegen]

I am not sure anyone can prove one way or the other.

I just quoted the pertinent passages.