What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Cosmos]

My understanding is that it would be inhumane to house small children in adult detention facilities with potential pedophiles or other serious criminals. Kind of makes sense doesn't? Would you want your 8 year old child housed in a maximum security prison with adult male inmates? My guess is probably not.

That is why kids are adults are separated. Plus...it is the Law. And we are a Nation of Laws or should be.

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion. Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

Sorry....the law is the law. Under US law in this circumstance kids have to be removed to protect them when their adult parents have broken the law and you do not want to house kids in adult correctional facilities. And yeah....their parents broke the law so they have to go in correctional facilities just like the rest of us when we break the law.

Kind of easy to understand in my opinion. Slave owners exercised "discretion" in violation of US Law. It doesn't make it right. Either we are a Nation of Laws or we are not. It really could not be more simple. You cannot pick and choose the Laws you like versus the ones you do not.

Jaywalking is against the law. So is parking in no parking areas. Should their kids be removed? Should they be put into correctional institutions? Why aren’t they?

Sorry...not equivalent...but nice try.

Very equivalent. None are crimes of violence, take any lives or steal anyone’s property. Trespassing is what it effectively.

Not to mention fraud and identity theft....

 

[Cosmos]

A human would go the the Port of Entry and present their immigrant visa that they obtained at the US Consulate in Mexico City.

A fucking animal crosses anywhere they can get away with it.

So yeah, there's that aspect.

An animal? Yep, you guys love to treat other humans as 'animals'.

BTW, it's not illegal to arrive at the border and present yourself as an asylum seeker, putz.

They can also do that at the US Consulate in Mexico City, dipshit. People who cross into the US illegally are no different than wild dogs.

I suppose, but why does it matter if it's legal either way?

Dipshit, seeking asylum at the border is not crossing it illegally.

And even those who do try to cross illegally, they aren't dogs, they are still people and should be treated as such, especially in our justice system it's what separates the United States from the likes of Cuba, China, Saudi Arabia and others.

They are not people. They are goddamn animals. If they were people they would respect borders and laws. They would obtain the proper legal paperwork and go to a legal Port of Entry where they would ask for permission to enter our country. They are fucking animals that pay no attention to such things. I don't know what the purpose is of the radical fascist leftist in this country who are trying to undermine our borders, but it can't be good. Maybe you can tell us.

Well if they're just animals, then why don't you just shoot them and skip all the legal formalities.

Because I'm not a rabid leftist fascist like you, I guess. I would not advocate a shoot-on-sight policy. Deport them.

Anyway, why not take a stab at the question I posed. I think the Democrats are trying to build up an ever larger undocumented population in this country to undermine our democracy and destroy the USA as we know it. Why are they doing that and who is funding them?

 

[candycorn]

...immigrant entrepreneurs are currently starting businesses at a rate roughly twice that of native-born...

Doesn't matter... there was a time we needed and wanted immigrants... that time has come and gone... we're now "Full Up"... fun time's over, kiddies.

We are no longer a "nation of immigrants"... we are now a "nation of the DESCENDANTS of immigrants"... this isn't 1848... this is 2018... that time is behind us now.

We are Nova Europa... not Nuevo Azteca.

Again...how small.

Doesn't matter... we're now turning the screws on your little Beaner Buddies and they're beginning to get the message... close enough for Gubmint work.

Ahhh racial slurs now. How small...how very small

 

[danielpalos]

a simpler visa could enable more skilled labor to try their luck in our markets; and enable local labor to move up locally.

 

[Flopper]

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion.

Interesting...

How much? How much discretion is required for it to be acceptable?

You say we're a nation of laws. Are we? Are we a nation of laws when we continually look for ways to circumvent them like we do with immigration? Like states and cities do with sanctuary laws?

Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

That's like saying there should be no consequences for their coming here illegally. If they aren't going to obey our laws with one set of consequences, then another continuum of consequences must be set in place. The severity of the punishment must be enhanced.

What do you think would serve as a reliable and "humane" deterrent?

How is that saying there should be no consequences?

They are detained.
They will get a hearing.
They will most likely be deported.

At a minimum, because there could also be incarceration or fines.

How are those NOT consequences?

They can get a hearing as long as ICE does not get an order for expedited removal. Those with families are going to plead guilty and wave their right to a hearing or trial in order to be united with their family. That's what all the separation of parents and kids is all about. ICE could put them in family detention centers but why do that? Take the kids away and parents will plead guilty which speeds deportation, Trump gets better deportation stats, and the ICE Director gets to keep his job.

Wow, that is a great plan. Good on Trump.

And you still have not solved the problem. Hundreds of thousands will still continue to come into the country either illegal or overstay visas and we will still have 12 million undocumented immigrants in the US. And in a few years, the politically pendulum will swing back to the left.

 

[Flopper]

a simpler visa could enable more skilled labor to try their luck in our markets; and enable local labor to move up locally.

How so?

 

[Cosmos]

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion.

Interesting...

How much? How much discretion is required for it to be acceptable?

You say we're a nation of laws. Are we? Are we a nation of laws when we continually look for ways to circumvent them like we do with immigration? Like states and cities do with sanctuary laws?

Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

That's like saying there should be no consequences for their coming here illegally. If they aren't going to obey our laws with one set of consequences, then another continuum of consequences must be set in place. The severity of the punishment must be enhanced.

What do you think would serve as a reliable and "humane" deterrent?

How is that saying there should be no consequences?

They are detained.
They will get a hearing.
They will most likely be deported.

At a minimum, because there could also be incarceration or fines.

How are those NOT consequences?

They can get a hearing as long as ICE does not get an order for expedited removal. Those with families are going to plead guilty and wave their right to a hearing or trial in order to be united with their family. That's what all the separation of parents and kids is all about. ICE could put them in family detention centers but why do that? Take the kids away and parents will plead guilty which speeds deportation, Trump gets better deportation stats, and the ICE Director gets to keep his job.

Wow, that is a great plan. Good on Trump.

And you still have not solved the problem. Hundreds of thousands will still continue to come into the country either illegal or overstay visas and we will still have 12 million undocumented immigrants in the US. And in a few years, the politically pendulum will swing back to the left.

The asshole anti-American fascist leftists are counting on it. We can easily see their plan for our destruction and their ultimate goal of making us over in the image of Venezuela. My question is, Why? Why do it and who's funding it? And why are so many dumbass leftist Americans falling for it?

Build the Wall.

 

[Flopper]

Interesting...

How much? How much discretion is required for it to be acceptable?

You say we're a nation of laws. Are we? Are we a nation of laws when we continually look for ways to circumvent them like we do with immigration? Like states and cities do with sanctuary laws?

That's like saying there should be no consequences for their coming here illegally. If they aren't going to obey our laws with one set of consequences, then another continuum of consequences must be set in place. The severity of the punishment must be enhanced.

What do you think would serve as a reliable and "humane" deterrent?

How is that saying there should be no consequences?

They are detained.
They will get a hearing.
They will most likely be deported.

At a minimum, because there could also be incarceration or fines.

How are those NOT consequences?

They can get a hearing as long as ICE does not get an order for expedited removal. Those with families are going to plead guilty and wave their right to a hearing or trial in order to be united with their family. That's what all the separation of parents and kids is all about. ICE could put them in family detention centers but why do that? Take the kids away and parents will plead guilty which speeds deportation, Trump gets better deportation stats, and the ICE Director gets to keep his job.

Wow, that is a great plan. Good on Trump.

And you still have not solved the problem. Hundreds of thousands will still continue to come into the country either illegal or overstay visas and we will still have 12 million undocumented immigrants in the US. And in a few years, the politically pendulum will swing back to the left.

The asshole anti-American fascist leftists are counting on it. We can easily see their plan for our destruction and their ultimate goal of making us over in the image of Venezuela. My question is, Why? Why do it and who's funding it? And why are so many dumbass leftist Americans falling for it?

Build the Wall.

Anti-American fascist leftists?
Fascism is on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum.

You forgot pinko, commies

 

[Hutch Starskey]

I suppose, but why does it matter if it's legal either way?

Dipshit, seeking asylum at the border is not crossing it illegally.

And even those who do try to cross illegally, they aren't dogs, they are still people and should be treated as such, especially in our justice system it's what separates the United States from the likes of Cuba, China, Saudi Arabia and others.

They are not people. They are goddamn animals. If they were people they would respect borders and laws. They would obtain the proper legal paperwork and go to a legal Port of Entry where they would ask for permission to enter our country. They are fucking animals that pay no attention to such things. I don't know what the purpose is of the radical fascist leftist in this country who are trying to undermine our borders, but it can't be good. Maybe you can tell us.

They would obtain the proper legal paperwork and go to a legal Port of Entry where they would ask for permission to enter our country. They are fucking animals that pay no attention to such things.

The Trump admin is separating even those asylum seekers who appear at a port of entry.
There is no crime in applying for asylum. It is a legal process.

ACLU: Trump administration forcibly separating asylum-seekers from their children

A mother and her 7-year-old daughter escaping persecution and "near certain death" by fleeing the Democratic Republic of Congohave been separated for nearly four months, according to a legal complaint filed today by the ACLU.

Referred to in the case as "Ms. L" and "S.S.," the mother and daughter arrived in San Ysidro, California, Nov. 1. They told border guards they were seeking asylum, according to the court documents. Ms. L passed what's called a "credible fear interview," where an officer determined she and S.S. had a "significant possibility of ultimately receiving asylum."

Like many asylum-seekers, the two were detained while their application was processed. Under longstanding policy, families typically are kept intact at detention centers or released with a court date.

But just four days after arriving in the U.S., Ms. L was sent to Otay Mesa Detention Center in San Diego County while S.S. was ripped away from her and flown to another center in Chicago, according to the filing. S.S. speaks Lingala, a few words of Spanish and no English.

Contacted by ABC News about the case, a Department of Homeland Security spokesperson said the department does not comment on pending litigation.

The complaint claims, "When the officers separated them, Ms. L. could hear her daughter in the next room frantically screaming that she wanted to remain with her mother.” Ms. L said that no one involved in the process explained that her daughter would be taken away, to where she would be taken or when they would next see each other.

This story stinks to high heaven. You're expecting us to believe that this woman and her daughter feared for their life in the Congo, somehow magically escaped and arrived in San Ysidro, California, the first place they came across where they could find asylum. Bullshit. She was brought there by human traffickers after paying a fee and she should be immediately sent straight back to Congo.

The point, dope is they arrived at a point of entry like you suggested they should. They were still separated. There is no crime in applying for asylum.

Homeland Security obviously didn't see it that way, dipshit. And they're not commenting. Can't you fucking read? Don't you have any common sense? You're nothing but a slobbering idiot if you think it's at all credible that this woman shows up in California legitimately seeking asylum. More than likely they caught her with her ass packed full of drugs and the kid isn't even hers.

It's you who cannot read, dumbass. They arrived at the San Ysidro border crossing and applied for asylum. Their application was accepted. There was no crime, dope.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

The Trump admin is separating even those asylum seekers who appear at a port of entry.
There is no crime in applying for asylum. It is a legal process.

ACLU: Trump administration forcibly separating asylum-seekers from their children

A mother and her 7-year-old daughter escaping persecution and "near certain death" by fleeing the Democratic Republic of Congohave been separated for nearly four months, according to a legal complaint filed today by the ACLU.

Referred to in the case as "Ms. L" and "S.S.," the mother and daughter arrived in San Ysidro, California, Nov. 1. They told border guards they were seeking asylum, according to the court documents. Ms. L passed what's called a "credible fear interview," where an officer determined she and S.S. had a "significant possibility of ultimately receiving asylum."

Like many asylum-seekers, the two were detained while their application was processed. Under longstanding policy, families typically are kept intact at detention centers or released with a court date.

But just four days after arriving in the U.S., Ms. L was sent to Otay Mesa Detention Center in San Diego County while S.S. was ripped away from her and flown to another center in Chicago, according to the filing. S.S. speaks Lingala, a few words of Spanish and no English.

Contacted by ABC News about the case, a Department of Homeland Security spokesperson said the department does not comment on pending litigation.

The complaint claims, "When the officers separated them, Ms. L. could hear her daughter in the next room frantically screaming that she wanted to remain with her mother.” Ms. L said that no one involved in the process explained that her daughter would be taken away, to where she would be taken or when they would next see each other.

This story stinks to high heaven. You're expecting us to believe that this woman and her daughter feared for their life in the Congo, somehow magically escaped and arrived in San Ysidro, California, the first place they came across where they could find asylum. Bullshit. She was brought there by human traffickers after paying a fee and she should be immediately sent straight back to Congo.

The point, dope is they arrived at a point of entry like you suggested they should. They were still separated. There is no crime in applying for asylum.

Homeland Security obviously didn't see it that way, dipshit. And they're not commenting. Can't you fucking read? Don't you have any common sense? You're nothing but a slobbering idiot if you think it's at all credible that this woman shows up in California legitimately seeking asylum. More than likely they caught her with her ass packed full of drugs and the kid isn't even hers.

You have zero proof of this, has she been charged with smuggling drugs? That's not exactly top secret information.

That's mere speculation. Can't you read, you idiot? The link said she was put in detention and DHS isn't commenting. That means she's got a problem and isn't on the up and up.

That's mere speculation. Can't you read, you idiot? The link said she was put in detention and DHS isn't commenting. That means she's got a problem and isn't on the up and up.

That's not what it says at all, captain comprehension.

Try this.

"Like many asylum-seekers, the two were detained while their application was processed. Under longstanding policy, families typically are kept intact at detention centers or released with a court date."


Applying for asylum is not a crime.

 

[Hutch Starskey]

...immigrant entrepreneurs are currently starting businesses at a rate roughly twice that of native-born...

Doesn't matter... there was a time we needed and wanted immigrants... that time has come and gone... we're now "Full Up"... fun time's over, kiddies.

We are no longer a "nation of immigrants"... we are now a "nation of the DESCENDANTS of immigrants"... this isn't 1848... this is 2018... that time is behind us now.

We are Nova Europa... not Nuevo Azteca.

Again...how small.

Doesn't matter... we're now turning the screws on your little Beaner Buddies and they're beginning to get the message... close enough for Gubmint work.

Ahhh racial slurs now. How small...how very small

That's really what this is all about. Keeping America a white majority. None of them have the balls to actually say so.

 

[Cecilie1200]

How is that saying there should be no consequences?

They are detained.
They will get a hearing.
They will most likely be deported.

At a minimum, because there could also be incarceration or fines.

How are those NOT consequences?

They can get a hearing as long as ICE does not get an order for expedited removal. Those with families are going to plead guilty and wave their right to a hearing or trial in order to be united with their family. That's what all the separation of parents and kids is all about. ICE could put them in family detention centers but why do that? Take the kids away and parents will plead guilty which speeds deportation, Trump gets better deportation stats, and the ICE Director gets to keep his job.

Wow, that is a great plan. Good on Trump.

And you still have not solved the problem. Hundreds of thousands will still continue to come into the country either illegal or overstay visas and we will still have 12 million undocumented immigrants in the US. And in a few years, the politically pendulum will swing back to the left.

The asshole anti-American fascist leftists are counting on it. We can easily see their plan for our destruction and their ultimate goal of making us over in the image of Venezuela. My question is, Why? Why do it and who's funding it? And why are so many dumbass leftist Americans falling for it?

Build the Wall.

Anti-American fascist leftists?
Fascism is on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum.

You forgot pinko, commies

Wrong. Fascism is on the right within the EUROPEAN spectrum, which is quite different from the American spectrum.

Apparently, what he REALLY forgot was "idiot".

 

[koshergrl]

How is that saying there should be no consequences?

They are detained.
They will get a hearing.
They will most likely be deported.

At a minimum, because there could also be incarceration or fines.

How are those NOT consequences?

They can get a hearing as long as ICE does not get an order for expedited removal. Those with families are going to plead guilty and wave their right to a hearing or trial in order to be united with their family. That's what all the separation of parents and kids is all about. ICE could put them in family detention centers but why do that? Take the kids away and parents will plead guilty which speeds deportation, Trump gets better deportation stats, and the ICE Director gets to keep his job.

Wow, that is a great plan. Good on Trump.

And you still have not solved the problem. Hundreds of thousands will still continue to come into the country either illegal or overstay visas and we will still have 12 million undocumented immigrants in the US. And in a few years, the politically pendulum will swing back to the left.

The asshole anti-American fascist leftists are counting on it. We can easily see their plan for our destruction and their ultimate goal of making us over in the image of Venezuela. My question is, Why? Why do it and who's funding it? And why are so many dumbass leftist Americans falling for it?

Build the Wall.

Anti-American fascist leftists?
Fascism is on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum.

You forgot pinko, commies

Nonsense. You fools keep mouthing that garbage like anybody takes it seriously.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

...immigrant entrepreneurs are currently starting businesses at a rate roughly twice that of native-born...

Doesn't matter... there was a time we needed and wanted immigrants... that time has come and gone... we're now "Full Up"... fun time's over, kiddies.

We are no longer a "nation of immigrants"... we are now a "nation of the DESCENDANTS of immigrants"... this isn't 1848... this is 2018... that time is behind us now.

We are Nova Europa... not Nuevo Azteca.

Again...how small.

Doesn't matter... we're now turning the screws on your little Beaner Buddies and they're beginning to get the message... close enough for Gubmint work.

Ahhh racial slurs now. How small...how very small

That's really what this is all about. Keeping America a white majority. None of them have the balls to actually say so.

I will. That is part of it. So if you're white, what's wrong with that? What other group of people besides white liberals would support a government trying to make them a minority in their own country?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion.

Interesting...

How much? How much discretion is required for it to be acceptable?

You say we're a nation of laws. Are we? Are we a nation of laws when we continually look for ways to circumvent them like we do with immigration? Like states and cities do with sanctuary laws?

Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

That's like saying there should be no consequences for their coming here illegally. If they aren't going to obey our laws with one set of consequences, then another continuum of consequences must be set in place. The severity of the punishment must be enhanced.

What do you think would serve as a reliable and "humane" deterrent?

How is that saying there should be no consequences?

They are detained.
They will get a hearing.
They will most likely be deported.

At a minimum, because there could also be incarceration or fines.

How are those NOT consequences?

They can get a hearing as long as ICE does not get an order for expedited removal. Those with families are going to plead guilty and wave their right to a hearing or trial in order to be united with their family. That's what all the separation of parents and kids is all about. ICE could put them in family detention centers but why do that? Take the kids away and parents will plead guilty which speeds deportation, Trump gets better deportation stats, and the ICE Director gets to keep his job.

Wow, that is a great plan. Good on Trump.

And you still have not solved the problem. Hundreds of thousands will still continue to come into the country either illegal or overstay visas and we will still have 12 million undocumented immigrants in the US. And in a few years, the politically pendulum will swing back to the left.

And if they do, then don't blame us for taking their kids away. They knew that would happen before they left the house.

Maybe we will never solve the problem, but reducing it as much as we can would be a big help. The stronger the deterrent, the more reduction we have.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Anyway, why not take a stab at the question I posed. I think the Democrats are trying to build up an ever larger undocumented population in this country to undermine our democracy and destroy the USA as we know it. Why are they doing that and who is funding them?

Why are they doing it? For power like always with Democrats. They calculate that if they can make whites a minority in this country, that will give them the ability to have a one-party government forever. Ever other group outside of whites votes a majority Democrat.

So the long term plan is to get as many of these people in this country as possible: low skill workers, high skill workers, illegals, MS-13 and other criminals. It doesn't matter. Because if they ever regain total power in the federal government again, they will grant blanket citizenship which comes with the right to vote.

Don't buy all this sympathy from the left about immigrants. Trust me, if immigrants were renown to vote Republican, not only would that wall be up, but a mote stocked with alligators and snipers on top of the wall.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I guess Reagan was a RINO?

Man...how far you guys have fallen. As the saying goes, for Trump supporters, you used to wonder when they would hit bottom. Now you wonder if there is a bottom for "people" like yourself.

PS: Would you be for sterilization of those that we kidnap? If not...why not? Wouldn't that send a message that is more serious than merely housing and feeding them--a virtual vacation--if that is your goal; to scare the shit out of people just for the sake of doing it?

Well I'm not going to play that typical liberal extremist game with you. Why not just ask if we should put those kids in hot factories and make them work 12 hour shifts? You people do this crap all the time in discussions.

Reagan said one of his biggest mistakes as President was granting amnesty.

And the jobs that go along with making and selling them???

Most of that crap is made in China. Do you know what it takes to get a patent? It's not a lot of hard work. Make an ink pen cleaner and you can get a patent on it; you can get a patent on anything. That doesn't mean it's productive or was produced or sold.

 

[Cecilie1200]

...immigrant entrepreneurs are currently starting businesses at a rate roughly twice that of native-born...

Doesn't matter... there was a time we needed and wanted immigrants... that time has come and gone... we're now "Full Up"... fun time's over, kiddies.

We are no longer a "nation of immigrants"... we are now a "nation of the DESCENDANTS of immigrants"... this isn't 1848... this is 2018... that time is behind us now.

We are Nova Europa... not Nuevo Azteca.

Again...how small.

Doesn't matter... we're now turning the screws on your little Beaner Buddies and they're beginning to get the message... close enough for Gubmint work.

Ahhh racial slurs now. How small...how very small

That's really what this is all about. Keeping America a white majority. None of them have the balls to actually say so.

Yeah, I'm OBVIOUSLY a white supremacist. That's totally why I married a man whose mother was an immigrant from Taiwan, and had children with him: because I hate minorities from other countries, and want to preserve the white race.

 

[Cosmos]

How is that saying there should be no consequences?

They are detained.
They will get a hearing.
They will most likely be deported.

At a minimum, because there could also be incarceration or fines.

How are those NOT consequences?

They can get a hearing as long as ICE does not get an order for expedited removal. Those with families are going to plead guilty and wave their right to a hearing or trial in order to be united with their family. That's what all the separation of parents and kids is all about. ICE could put them in family detention centers but why do that? Take the kids away and parents will plead guilty which speeds deportation, Trump gets better deportation stats, and the ICE Director gets to keep his job.

Wow, that is a great plan. Good on Trump.

And you still have not solved the problem. Hundreds of thousands will still continue to come into the country either illegal or overstay visas and we will still have 12 million undocumented immigrants in the US. And in a few years, the politically pendulum will swing back to the left.

The asshole anti-American fascist leftists are counting on it. We can easily see their plan for our destruction and their ultimate goal of making us over in the image of Venezuela. My question is, Why? Why do it and who's funding it? And why are so many dumbass leftist Americans falling for it?

Build the Wall.

Anti-American fascist leftists?
Fascism is on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum.

You forgot pinko, commies

Well, bless your little heart. Fascism is just on the "far-right" eh? I'm generally a traditional sort but I think "leftist fascist" fits you anti-free speech, anti-2nd Amendment, anti-religious freedom, pro-abortion, pro-immigrant slave labor, open-border, cop-killing, city-burning, anarchist bastards right down to the ground.

 

[Kondor3]

...That's really what this is all about. Keeping America a white majority. None of them have the balls to actually say so.

Sniveling Wigger Complaints Department is down the hall, 13th door on The Left...

Meanwhile, the roundup of Illegal Aliens continues... and intensifies... < snicker >...