What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[Cosmos]

This story stinks to high heaven. You're expecting us to believe that this woman and her daughter feared for their life in the Congo, somehow magically escaped and arrived in San Ysidro, California, the first place they came across where they could find asylum. Bullshit. She was brought there by human traffickers after paying a fee and she should be immediately sent straight back to Congo.

The point, dope is they arrived at a point of entry like you suggested they should. They were still separated. There is no crime in applying for asylum.

Homeland Security obviously didn't see it that way, dipshit. And they're not commenting. Can't you fucking read? Don't you have any common sense? You're nothing but a slobbering idiot if you think it's at all credible that this woman shows up in California legitimately seeking asylum. More than likely they caught her with her ass packed full of drugs and the kid isn't even hers.

You have zero proof of this, has she been charged with smuggling drugs? That's not exactly top secret information.

That's mere speculation. Can't you read, you idiot? The link said she was put in detention and DHS isn't commenting. That means she's got a problem and isn't on the up and up.

No, that doesn't mean 'she's got a problem' other than being detained. You are just making excuses for her being separated.

Oh of course. DHS takes people into custody just for the hell of it. They're all Trumpster racists. And you're an incredibly stupid asshole.

 

[candycorn]

No…

You just become meaner, forgetting why America was exceptional in the first place. Also forgetting that there is a difference between being strong and being tough.

There is also a difference between being a sucker and being strong; a difference between being used and being tough.

Now if you can show me how being "nice" has worked out, I'll be glad to debate you on that subject. Don't get me wrong, I understand your empathy, I can relate. It's the way I feel when I see a skinny stray cat in my yard. I'm tempted to get some lunchmeat and let the animal have a party, but in doing so, I'd be adopting a cat because the damn thing will never leave, and likely mate or draw more stays to my property. So it really kills me not to feed the poor animal.

But we have a country of our own to take care of. When all our problems are solved, then we are ready to take on world problems.

I would tell you to "look around" at the nation that was built being "nice"...that how long it has been sustained, that we have a state that if it were it's own nation would be the 5th in the world in terms of GDP, the nation that put a man on the moon, the nobel prize winners our educational system has spawned...hell, Freakonomics guru Steven Dubner reports that the US spends $60B a year on lawn upkeep!

But we know you'll find some other bullshit reason for all of that. Very few cultures rise despite it's government. Government plays it's role, to be sure. Research grants, patent laws, trade agreements, security, etc...

Ok. tear down the nation's achievements.. Your turn.

So are you suggesting we don't have our own problems to deal with? Every country has problems. Yes, we do live in the greatest country in the world, but we are also 20 trillion dollars in debt, have a drug problem, healthcare problems, violence problems, race problems.......need I continue?

Point being is we have enough problems without accepting even more that foreigners bring us. When we have room for more problems, then let them bring it on.

The immigrants have largely been beneficial on the way to our becoming "the greatest country in the world". You see it reflected in cheaper labor, cheaper food costs, the absence of labor shortages, etc...

We had drug problems since the 60's, healthcare problems since the 80's, not sure about the violence problems, but we've always had race problems.....suddenly it's the fault of immigrants? One would think (if he wasn't a conservative) that our problems with drugs is because of our demand for drugs. Healthcare problems come from our insane system of your employer paying for your insurance. As for the debt---a trillion of which was just added by your Messiah--building a wall will do what? We're still going to pay for the border control. People will still overstay their visas, people will still smuggle themselves in through areas where the wall is not... Wanting to pay $25B for just the cost of the thing and yearly upkeep and then still having to pay for all of the manpower that is there now is pretty fiscally stupid; especially in light of the fact that most do not come across the border.

All that being said..Either way, it's not the fault of the kids that come over illegally with their parents. Is it?

I never said it was the fault of immigrants. What I said is that we have enough of our own problems without inviting more into our country.

At one time many years ago, we did need immigrants. We were a nation building, we were in need of labor of all kinds. That's not the case any longer. We don't need them here with the exception of cheaper labor.

What Trump wants for the wall is about less than half of what we spend for food stamps every single year. It's a one time expense with some minor maintenance as time goes on. And don't drag Trump into this when half of that 20 trillion was spent by Ears.

No, it's not the fault of the kids, it's the fault of the adults and not our fault. This is how we process illegals coming into our country. If they are so worried about the kids, stay in your own Fn country and quit placing the blame on us.

But we punish the kids anyway....now it's a policy of doing it every time no exceptions.

We've gone from being a "shiny city on the hill" to being whatever this is. Or do you guys now disown Reagan too and have "learned from [your] mistakes" as well where he is concerned.

As for not needing them for anything except cheap labor...there was this from 2013:

Foreigners Hold Half of All U.S. Patents Annually

In part, it reads....

Innovation by the Numbers
In 2013, 51 percent of the 303,000 patents filed in the U.S. were of foreign origin, according to the USPTO. That's a decrease of one percentage point compared to 2012, but about equal to the percentage of foreign patents granted every year for the past decade. To get some perspective, in 1963, only 18 percent of patents originated from foreign sources.

The force of foreign innovation is not only felt in patent creation, it's also in the number of startups foreigners create in the U.S. The two are frequently related, as the company usually commercializes the patented idea or product.

Additionally, more than half of startups in Silicon Valley were founded by foreign-born entrepreneurs, according to Wadhwa and the Kauffman Foundation. (Kauffman's most recent index, released on Wednesday, also indicates that immigrant entrepreneurs are currently starting businesses at a rate roughly twice that of native-born business owners.)


I'm guessing Inc Magazine was part of the "deep state" when it was not fashionable.

 

[WelfareQueen]

Maybe obey our Laws and enter the Country legally? It's a thought.

I have no problem with that. I have no problem with a hearing and, if determined deportation.

Do you think it's necessary to inact this draconian policy in the meantime?

My understanding is that it would be inhumane to house small children in adult detention facilities with potential pedophiles or other serious criminals. Kind of makes sense doesn't? Would you want your 8 year old child housed in a maximum security prison with adult male inmates? My guess is probably not.

That is why kids are adults are separated. Plus...it is the Law. And we are a Nation of Laws or should be.

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion. Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

Sorry....the law is the law. Under US law in this circumstance kids have to be removed to protect them when their adult parents have broken the law and you do not want to house kids in adult correctional facilities. And yeah....their parents broke the law so they have to go in correctional facilities just like the rest of us when we break the law.

Kind of easy to understand in my opinion. Slave owners exercised "discretion" in violation of US Law. It doesn't make it right. Either we are a Nation of Laws or we are not. It really could not be more simple. You cannot pick and choose the Laws you like versus the ones you do not.

Jaywalking is against the law. So is parking in no parking areas. Should their kids be removed? Should they be put into correctional institutions? Why aren’t they?

Sorry...not equivalent...but nice try.

 

[WelfareQueen]

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion.

Interesting...

How much? How much discretion is required for it to be acceptable?

You say we're a nation of laws. Are we? Are we a nation of laws when we continually look for ways to circumvent them like we do with immigration? Like states and cities do with sanctuary laws?

Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

That's like saying there should be no consequences for their coming here illegally. If they aren't going to obey our laws with one set of consequences, then another continuum of consequences must be set in place. The severity of the punishment must be enhanced.

What do you think would serve as a reliable and "humane" deterrent?

How is that saying there should be no consequences?

They are detained.
They will get a hearing.
They will most likely be deported.

At a minimum, because there could also be incarceration or fines.

How are those NOT consequences?

They are. But apparently the existing set of these so-called consequences do not serve as a strong enough deterrent. Something more needs to be done.

Incarceration is insufficient because they will have gotten what they wanted from the country they came to illegally. Food and shelter. They get more than that if they flee to a sanctuary.

Fines are insufficient, what money are they going to pay them with?

Hearings serve little to no purpose when the party concerned fails to show up for it. Which also makes incarcerating and detaining them a moot point.

Detention serves little purpose when we allow them to skirt our immigration laws by fleeing to sanctuary cities.

Reporting them only means we get to see them cross our border again. Which just shows how little these people care about the existing consequences.

Despite all of this, they keep doing it, they keep breaking our laws. No, these are no longer are consequences. Just unfulfilled ultimatums. I get the feeling you want to maintain the status quo. Stay the course with consequences that these people are not afraid of.

Take their child away from them, and that will instill fear and compliance. That is a consequence they will pay attention to.

Immigration is down regardless.

But removing children from families as a punishment. That's a new low.

Obama did it thousands of times....but I guess it was okay then.

 

[Cecilie1200]

Tired, shopworn word-play that is no longer effective... nobody's listening anymore, outside your own base.

ok

One would wonder why you’re responding.

Because tired, shopworn word-play still needs to be countered, lest it re-infect the less intelligent amongst you.

ok

One would wonder why someone would be “re-infected” with honesty if “nobody’s listening”

Noise, continuously blaring, eventually makes an impression.

Refutation of your tired, shopworn word-play serves to cancel-out that noise.

On the other hand, the more intelligent and pragmatic amongst you have come to realize that it's bad optics to stand alongside Illegal Aliens rather than your countrymen.

We need look no further than the Dems in the Senate refusing to shut down the government a second time on behalf of Dreamers, after making that mistake in early 2017.

Slowly but surely, your party is re-learning the Primary Lesson (stand with your countrymen) of November 8, 2016.

ok

if nobody was listening...refutation would not be necessary.

Almost as unnecessary as kidnapping children under the guise of national defense.

If you see it as "kidnapping", what the fuck did you leftists insist on it for?

 

[Flopper]

E-Verify is mostly a volunteer program. If it becomes mandatory, everyone who works, 150 million would have to be verified to get a job. If only 1% of the data is wrong, it will effect 1.5 million workers. The data for E-verify comes from 20 different databases from over a dozen different agencies so how do you get it corrected? Maybe a better question, how do you get your new employer to hold the job open while you get the E-Verify mess fixed.

Of course most people that hire undocumented immigrants, know they are undocumented and they hire them anyway.

E-verify is voluntary because commiecrats want it that way. And employers that hire illegals should be jailed and their businesses confiscated under RICO. Only a couple would need be arrested and that crap would stop.


.

I think it's voluntary because it's not accurate enough. It's one of many things that need to be changed. Many of the big farms contract with labor supplier who supposedly check immigration status, thus letting the farmer off the hook.

How hard could it be to match a name, DOB and ethnicity to a SSN?
.

Difficulty is not the problem. The complains are that it isn't accurate. People with work permits less than 30 days old do not appear. Also people that left the country are still on the database. That's why I say, the government can't require all employers use it.

There's another problem. If you use it and it flags some people you have to have to complete a contract and you hire them anyway, then get caught you will be in deep shit. However, if don't use E-Verify, there are a number exceptions you can use to get out of a penalty. The law and the regulations are poorly conceived.

People here on temp work permits would have the permit, I don't they would be issued a SSN. And why wouldn't people who have left the country be on the data base, if they were issued a SSN?

We also need to make E-verify mandatory and eliminate those loopholes.


.

I agree we need to cleanup E-Verify, but I'm not sure it should be mandatory. I think we should put more pressure on employers not to hire illegals. However, if farmers don't get pickers, the crop rots in field. I think farmers would opt to hire illegals rather than lose their crop.

 

[Flopper]

All people get to chime in here. They voted for Trump. some didn't, that's democracy. They voted on legalizing marijuana even, but not ONCE anywhere have we Americans got to VOTE on allowing the state to skirt, no, flaunt federal immigration laws. It's shocking actually. Most of us would like to get to vote on that, being that this is still a democracy and all. So why can't we vote on that? Does that threaten somebody? We can't leave this up to a rabble after all.

The only sanctuary states are:
California
Colorado
Illinois
Massachusetts
New Mexico
Oregon
Vermont

They are all blue states that would most likely vote to support the state government view on sanctuary.

With the exception of California, most of these states are not going to have any problem defending there position. For example, prohibiting law enforcement officers at the state, county or municipal level from enforcing federal immigration laws that target people based on their race or ethnic origin, when those individuals are not suspected of any criminal activities. That's a pretty safe move, telling their people not enforce immigration laws that would violate the Civil Rights Act. Since no law enforcement officers is going to make a decision as to what immigration laws might violate the Civil Rights Act, they simply won't enforce any of them.

What they are asking is simply that they notify the feds when an illegal is arrested and taken to jail. They won't allow their officers to do that whether they want to or not.

Different states and cities approach sanctuary in different way. My city I suppose is a sanctuary city. The city council passed a resolution urging all citizens to use care in judging the immigration status of residents and reminding law enforcement that the city was not responsible for enforcing federal laws. The wording is not exact but this is meaning.

Frankly, I think the city council resolution was totally unnecessary. The vast majority of people in this area are democrats and no law enforcement officer is going to be calling ICE or assisting in an immigration raid. If you notice the cities and states that are sanctuary cities, they are almost all blue. With or without laws and resolution, ICE is not likely to get much help in those areas.

 

[Flopper]

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion.

Interesting...

How much? How much discretion is required for it to be acceptable?

You say we're a nation of laws. Are we? Are we a nation of laws when we continually look for ways to circumvent them like we do with immigration? Like states and cities do with sanctuary laws?

Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

That's like saying there should be no consequences for their coming here illegally. If they aren't going to obey our laws with one set of consequences, then another continuum of consequences must be set in place. The severity of the punishment must be enhanced.

What do you think would serve as a reliable and "humane" deterrent?

How is that saying there should be no consequences?

They are detained.
They will get a hearing.
They will most likely be deported.

At a minimum, because there could also be incarceration or fines.

How are those NOT consequences?

They can get a hearing as long as ICE does not get an order for expedited removal. Those with families are going to plead guilty and wave their right to a hearing or trial in order to be united with their family. That's what all the separation of parents and kids is all about. ICE could put them in family detention centers but why do that? Take the kids away and parents will plead guilty which speeds deportation, Trump gets better deportation stats, and the ICE Director gets to keep his job.

 

[Flopper]

They don't see them as human.

A human would go the the Port of Entry and present their immigrant visa that they obtained at the US Consulate in Mexico City.

A fucking animal crosses anywhere they can get away with it.

So yeah, there's that aspect.

An animal? Yep, you guys love to treat other humans as 'animals'.

BTW, it's not illegal to arrive at the border and present yourself as an asylum seeker, putz.

They can also do that at the US Consulate in Mexico City, dipshit. People who cross into the US illegally are no different than wild dogs.

I suppose, but why does it matter if it's legal either way?

Dipshit, seeking asylum at the border is not crossing it illegally.

And even those who do try to cross illegally, they aren't dogs, they are still people and should be treated as such, especially in our justice system it's what separates the United States from the likes of Cuba, China, Saudi Arabia and others.

They are not people. They are goddamn animals. If they were people they would respect borders and laws. They would obtain the proper legal paperwork and go to a legal Port of Entry where they would ask for permission to enter our country. They are fucking animals that pay no attention to such things. I don't know what the purpose is of the radical fascist leftist in this country who are trying to undermine our borders, but it can't be good. Maybe you can tell us.

Well if they're just animals, then why don't you just shoot them and skip all the legal formalities.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

A human would go the the Port of Entry and present their immigrant visa that they obtained at the US Consulate in Mexico City.

A fucking animal crosses anywhere they can get away with it.

So yeah, there's that aspect.

An animal? Yep, you guys love to treat other humans as 'animals'.

BTW, it's not illegal to arrive at the border and present yourself as an asylum seeker, putz.

They can also do that at the US Consulate in Mexico City, dipshit. People who cross into the US illegally are no different than wild dogs.

I suppose, but why does it matter if it's legal either way?

Dipshit, seeking asylum at the border is not crossing it illegally.

And even those who do try to cross illegally, they aren't dogs, they are still people and should be treated as such, especially in our justice system it's what separates the United States from the likes of Cuba, China, Saudi Arabia and others.

They are not people. They are goddamn animals. If they were people they would respect borders and laws. They would obtain the proper legal paperwork and go to a legal Port of Entry where they would ask for permission to enter our country. They are fucking animals that pay no attention to such things. I don't know what the purpose is of the radical fascist leftist in this country who are trying to undermine our borders, but it can't be good. Maybe you can tell us.

Well if they're just animals, then why don't you just shoot them and skip all the legal formalities.

Because today, you can get more time in jail for beating your animal than you can for beating your wife.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion.

Interesting...

How much? How much discretion is required for it to be acceptable?

You say we're a nation of laws. Are we? Are we a nation of laws when we continually look for ways to circumvent them like we do with immigration? Like states and cities do with sanctuary laws?

Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

That's like saying there should be no consequences for their coming here illegally. If they aren't going to obey our laws with one set of consequences, then another continuum of consequences must be set in place. The severity of the punishment must be enhanced.

What do you think would serve as a reliable and "humane" deterrent?

How is that saying there should be no consequences?

They are detained.
They will get a hearing.
They will most likely be deported.

At a minimum, because there could also be incarceration or fines.

How are those NOT consequences?

They can get a hearing as long as ICE does not get an order for expedited removal. Those with families are going to plead guilty and wave their right to a hearing or trial in order to be united with their family. That's what all the separation of parents and kids is all about. ICE could put them in family detention centers but why do that? Take the kids away and parents will plead guilty which speeds deportation, Trump gets better deportation stats, and the ICE Director gets to keep his job.

Wow, that is a great plan. Good on Trump.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

All people get to chime in here. They voted for Trump. some didn't, that's democracy. They voted on legalizing marijuana even, but not ONCE anywhere have we Americans got to VOTE on allowing the state to skirt, no, flaunt federal immigration laws. It's shocking actually. Most of us would like to get to vote on that, being that this is still a democracy and all. So why can't we vote on that? Does that threaten somebody? We can't leave this up to a rabble after all.

The only sanctuary states are:
California
Colorado
Illinois
Massachusetts
New Mexico
Oregon
Vermont

They are all blue states that would most likely vote to support the state government view on sanctuary.

With the exception of California, most of these states are not going to have any problem defending there position. For example, prohibiting law enforcement officers at the state, county or municipal level from enforcing federal immigration laws that target people based on their race or ethnic origin, when those individuals are not suspected of any criminal activities. That's a pretty safe move, telling their people not enforce immigration laws that would violate the Civil Rights Act. Since no law enforcement officers is going to make a decision as to what immigration laws might violate the Civil Rights Act, they simply won't enforce any of them.

What they are asking is simply that they notify the feds when an illegal is arrested and taken to jail. They won't allow their officers to do that whether they want to or not.

Different states and cities approach sanctuary in different way. My city I suppose is a sanctuary city. The city council passed a resolution urging all citizens to use care in judging the immigration status of residents and reminding law enforcement that the city was not responsible for enforcing federal laws. The wording is not exact but this is meaning.

Frankly, I think the city council resolution was totally unnecessary. The vast majority of people in this area are democrats and no law enforcement officer is going to be calling ICE or assisting in an immigration raid. If you notice the cities and states that are sanctuary cities, they are almost all blue. With or without laws and resolution, ICE is not likely to get much help in those areas.

They would if the feds cut out their funds which Trump tried to do, but some commie activist judge stopped him.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

There is also a difference between being a sucker and being strong; a difference between being used and being tough.

Now if you can show me how being "nice" has worked out, I'll be glad to debate you on that subject. Don't get me wrong, I understand your empathy, I can relate. It's the way I feel when I see a skinny stray cat in my yard. I'm tempted to get some lunchmeat and let the animal have a party, but in doing so, I'd be adopting a cat because the damn thing will never leave, and likely mate or draw more stays to my property. So it really kills me not to feed the poor animal.

But we have a country of our own to take care of. When all our problems are solved, then we are ready to take on world problems.

I would tell you to "look around" at the nation that was built being "nice"...that how long it has been sustained, that we have a state that if it were it's own nation would be the 5th in the world in terms of GDP, the nation that put a man on the moon, the nobel prize winners our educational system has spawned...hell, Freakonomics guru Steven Dubner reports that the US spends $60B a year on lawn upkeep!

But we know you'll find some other bullshit reason for all of that. Very few cultures rise despite it's government. Government plays it's role, to be sure. Research grants, patent laws, trade agreements, security, etc...

Ok. tear down the nation's achievements.. Your turn.

So are you suggesting we don't have our own problems to deal with? Every country has problems. Yes, we do live in the greatest country in the world, but we are also 20 trillion dollars in debt, have a drug problem, healthcare problems, violence problems, race problems.......need I continue?

Point being is we have enough problems without accepting even more that foreigners bring us. When we have room for more problems, then let them bring it on.

The immigrants have largely been beneficial on the way to our becoming "the greatest country in the world". You see it reflected in cheaper labor, cheaper food costs, the absence of labor shortages, etc...

We had drug problems since the 60's, healthcare problems since the 80's, not sure about the violence problems, but we've always had race problems.....suddenly it's the fault of immigrants? One would think (if he wasn't a conservative) that our problems with drugs is because of our demand for drugs. Healthcare problems come from our insane system of your employer paying for your insurance. As for the debt---a trillion of which was just added by your Messiah--building a wall will do what? We're still going to pay for the border control. People will still overstay their visas, people will still smuggle themselves in through areas where the wall is not... Wanting to pay $25B for just the cost of the thing and yearly upkeep and then still having to pay for all of the manpower that is there now is pretty fiscally stupid; especially in light of the fact that most do not come across the border.

All that being said..Either way, it's not the fault of the kids that come over illegally with their parents. Is it?

I never said it was the fault of immigrants. What I said is that we have enough of our own problems without inviting more into our country.

At one time many years ago, we did need immigrants. We were a nation building, we were in need of labor of all kinds. That's not the case any longer. We don't need them here with the exception of cheaper labor.

What Trump wants for the wall is about less than half of what we spend for food stamps every single year. It's a one time expense with some minor maintenance as time goes on. And don't drag Trump into this when half of that 20 trillion was spent by Ears.

No, it's not the fault of the kids, it's the fault of the adults and not our fault. This is how we process illegals coming into our country. If they are so worried about the kids, stay in your own Fn country and quit placing the blame on us.

But we punish the kids anyway....now it's a policy of doing it every time no exceptions.

We've gone from being a "shiny city on the hill" to being whatever this is. Or do you guys now disown Reagan too and have "learned from [your] mistakes" as well where he is concerned.

As for not needing them for anything except cheap labor...there was this from 2013:

Foreigners Hold Half of All U.S. Patents Annually

In part, it reads....

Innovation by the Numbers
In 2013, 51 percent of the 303,000 patents filed in the U.S. were of foreign origin, according to the USPTO. That's a decrease of one percentage point compared to 2012, but about equal to the percentage of foreign patents granted every year for the past decade. To get some perspective, in 1963, only 18 percent of patents originated from foreign sources.

The force of foreign innovation is not only felt in patent creation, it's also in the number of startups foreigners create in the U.S. The two are frequently related, as the company usually commercializes the patented idea or product.

Additionally, more than half of startups in Silicon Valley were founded by foreign-born entrepreneurs, according to Wadhwa and the Kauffman Foundation. (Kauffman's most recent index, released on Wednesday, also indicates that immigrant entrepreneurs are currently starting businesses at a rate roughly twice that of native-born business owners.)


I'm guessing Inc Magazine was part of the "deep state" when it was not fashionable.

So what? Some of them invented things like the Jogging Pad or some stupid device to unclog drains. Like we can't do without that?

Yes, we were the shining city on the hill, but now too many people are taking advantage of it. Time to dull that shine and take the kids so future trespassers won't want to come here.

 

[candycorn]

I would tell you to "look around" at the nation that was built being "nice"...that how long it has been sustained, that we have a state that if it were it's own nation would be the 5th in the world in terms of GDP, the nation that put a man on the moon, the nobel prize winners our educational system has spawned...hell, Freakonomics guru Steven Dubner reports that the US spends $60B a year on lawn upkeep!

But we know you'll find some other bullshit reason for all of that. Very few cultures rise despite it's government. Government plays it's role, to be sure. Research grants, patent laws, trade agreements, security, etc...

Ok. tear down the nation's achievements.. Your turn.

So are you suggesting we don't have our own problems to deal with? Every country has problems. Yes, we do live in the greatest country in the world, but we are also 20 trillion dollars in debt, have a drug problem, healthcare problems, violence problems, race problems.......need I continue?

Point being is we have enough problems without accepting even more that foreigners bring us. When we have room for more problems, then let them bring it on.

The immigrants have largely been beneficial on the way to our becoming "the greatest country in the world". You see it reflected in cheaper labor, cheaper food costs, the absence of labor shortages, etc...

We had drug problems since the 60's, healthcare problems since the 80's, not sure about the violence problems, but we've always had race problems.....suddenly it's the fault of immigrants? One would think (if he wasn't a conservative) that our problems with drugs is because of our demand for drugs. Healthcare problems come from our insane system of your employer paying for your insurance. As for the debt---a trillion of which was just added by your Messiah--building a wall will do what? We're still going to pay for the border control. People will still overstay their visas, people will still smuggle themselves in through areas where the wall is not... Wanting to pay $25B for just the cost of the thing and yearly upkeep and then still having to pay for all of the manpower that is there now is pretty fiscally stupid; especially in light of the fact that most do not come across the border.

All that being said..Either way, it's not the fault of the kids that come over illegally with their parents. Is it?

I never said it was the fault of immigrants. What I said is that we have enough of our own problems without inviting more into our country.

At one time many years ago, we did need immigrants. We were a nation building, we were in need of labor of all kinds. That's not the case any longer. We don't need them here with the exception of cheaper labor.

What Trump wants for the wall is about less than half of what we spend for food stamps every single year. It's a one time expense with some minor maintenance as time goes on. And don't drag Trump into this when half of that 20 trillion was spent by Ears.

No, it's not the fault of the kids, it's the fault of the adults and not our fault. This is how we process illegals coming into our country. If they are so worried about the kids, stay in your own Fn country and quit placing the blame on us.

But we punish the kids anyway....now it's a policy of doing it every time no exceptions.

We've gone from being a "shiny city on the hill" to being whatever this is. Or do you guys now disown Reagan too and have "learned from [your] mistakes" as well where he is concerned.

As for not needing them for anything except cheap labor...there was this from 2013:

Foreigners Hold Half of All U.S. Patents Annually

In part, it reads....

Innovation by the Numbers
In 2013, 51 percent of the 303,000 patents filed in the U.S. were of foreign origin, according to the USPTO. That's a decrease of one percentage point compared to 2012, but about equal to the percentage of foreign patents granted every year for the past decade. To get some perspective, in 1963, only 18 percent of patents originated from foreign sources.

The force of foreign innovation is not only felt in patent creation, it's also in the number of startups foreigners create in the U.S. The two are frequently related, as the company usually commercializes the patented idea or product.

Additionally, more than half of startups in Silicon Valley were founded by foreign-born entrepreneurs, according to Wadhwa and the Kauffman Foundation. (Kauffman's most recent index, released on Wednesday, also indicates that immigrant entrepreneurs are currently starting businesses at a rate roughly twice that of native-born business owners.)


I'm guessing Inc Magazine was part of the "deep state" when it was not fashionable.

So what? Some of them invented things like the Jogging Pad or some stupid device to unclog drains. Like we can't do without that?

And the jobs that go along with making and selling them???

Yes, we were the shining city on the hill, but now too many people are taking advantage of it. Time to dull that shine and take the kids so future trespassers won't want to come here.

I guess Reagan was a RINO?

Man...how far you guys have fallen. As the saying goes, for Trump supporters, you used to wonder when they would hit bottom. Now you wonder if there is a bottom for "people" like yourself.

PS: Would you be for sterilization of those that we kidnap? If not...why not? Wouldn't that send a message that is more serious than merely housing and feeding them--a virtual vacation--if that is your goal; to scare the shit out of people just for the sake of doing it?

 

[Kondor3]

...immigrant entrepreneurs are currently starting businesses at a rate roughly twice that of native-born...

Doesn't matter... there was a time we needed and wanted immigrants... that time has come and gone... we're now "Full Up"... fun time's over, kiddies.

We are no longer a "nation of immigrants"... we are now a "nation of the DESCENDANTS of immigrants"... this isn't 1848... this is 2018... that time is behind us now.

We are Nova Europa... not Nuevo Azteca.

 

[kaz]

...immigrant entrepreneurs are currently starting businesses at a rate roughly twice that of native-born...

Doesn't matter... there was a time we needed and wanted immigrants... that time has come and gone... we're now "Full Up"... fun time's over, kiddies.

It's about illegal aliens, not "immigrants"

 

[candycorn]

...immigrant entrepreneurs are currently starting businesses at a rate roughly twice that of native-born...

Doesn't matter... there was a time we needed and wanted immigrants... that time has come and gone... we're now "Full Up"... fun time's over, kiddies.

We are no longer a "nation of immigrants"... we are now a "nation of the DESCENDANTS of immigrants"... this isn't 1848... this is 2018... that time is behind us now.

We are Nova Europa... not Nuevo Azteca.

Again...how small.

 

[Kondor3]

...immigrant entrepreneurs are currently starting businesses at a rate roughly twice that of native-born...

Doesn't matter... there was a time we needed and wanted immigrants... that time has come and gone... we're now "Full Up"... fun time's over, kiddies.

We are no longer a "nation of immigrants"... we are now a "nation of the DESCENDANTS of immigrants"... this isn't 1848... this is 2018... that time is behind us now.

We are Nova Europa... not Nuevo Azteca.

Again...how small.

Doesn't matter... we're now turning the screws on your little Beaner Buddies and they're beginning to get the message... close enough for Gubmint work.

 

[Coyote]

I have no problem with that. I have no problem with a hearing and, if determined deportation.

Do you think it's necessary to inact this draconian policy in the meantime?

My understanding is that it would be inhumane to house small children in adult detention facilities with potential pedophiles or other serious criminals. Kind of makes sense doesn't? Would you want your 8 year old child housed in a maximum security prison with adult male inmates? My guess is probably not.

That is why kids are adults are separated. Plus...it is the Law. And we are a Nation of Laws or should be.

We are a nation of laws but we also can exercise discretion. Families don’t have to be housed in with serious offenders. Kids don’t have to be removed. We exercised this discretion before why not now?

Sorry....the law is the law. Under US law in this circumstance kids have to be removed to protect them when their adult parents have broken the law and you do not want to house kids in adult correctional facilities. And yeah....their parents broke the law so they have to go in correctional facilities just like the rest of us when we break the law.

Kind of easy to understand in my opinion. Slave owners exercised "discretion" in violation of US Law. It doesn't make it right. Either we are a Nation of Laws or we are not. It really could not be more simple. You cannot pick and choose the Laws you like versus the ones you do not.

Jaywalking is against the law. So is parking in no parking areas. Should their kids be removed? Should they be put into correctional institutions? Why aren’t they?

Sorry...not equivalent...but nice try.

Very equivalent. None are crimes of violence, take any lives or steal anyone’s property. Trespassing is what it effectively.

 

[Kondor3]

...Trespassing is what it effectively.

Trespassing is only the opening salvo, as they sneak across the border.

Forcing US taxpayers to pay for their children's education, depressing wages in various trades, and taking American jobs, are the most obvious post-trespassing sins.

We should not even be having this conversation.

Our country... not theirs.

If newcomers ask our permission and come (or stay here) legally, then they are welcome.

If newcomers sneak in, or overstay, then they can just get-the-hell out... no further National Conversation is necessary.