What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[RealDave]

Since that isn't happening, I'm not that concerned with it. You guys have been looking for the elusive illegal alien voter since 2000 and haven't found him yet.

It's the right that opposes a national ID system, not the left.

So your answer is yes, you would oppose having an ID law requiring proof of citizenship ? To keep aliens from voting. Well sure, because that would keep your illegal alien friends from voting, and helping to get Democrats elected.

And deflecting to how many illegals are voting or not, is a DODGE. Simply enacting a citizenship requirement isn't a big deal. It's inexpensive both with time and money, it's easy, and should be done, regardless of anybody's estimate of the illegality taking place.

And for the illegal alien voter, there's nothing "elusive" about him to me. I've talked to them all across the country, in voting halls, on construction sites, in office buildings doing janitorial work, around my apartment complex doing landscaping, etc. And they're always willing to brag about how many laws they break (voting no exception)

Whatever gave you the idea we hadn't found them ? Let me guess >> CNN, MSNBC, look no further.

Illegals are not voting.

Why would a person hiding from the law walk into a government run facility where they may be asked to show ID?

Why would a person cross our borders illegally or overstay their Visa illegally?

People that sneak into the country have about as much interest in our elections as we have in theirs. Any foreigner who would risk deportation and jail time to vote would have to be nuts since the chance of their vote making any difference is about 1 in million.

I have a list of links if you care to read them about just that. So what happens if an illegal is caught trying to vote? They tell him or her they can't vote. Nobody calls the cops, nobody informs ICE; especially in sanctuary cities, nobody is hauled away. They just get turned down at the polls.

ILLEGALS ARE NOT TRYING TO VOTE. You fucking ignorant lying POS.

 

[AZGAL]

doesn't pass the laugh test that bigot like you would have regular conversations with an undocumented worker

So funny JoeBullshit that you think someone in Arizona does not meet janitors, landscapers, farm workers, etc. who are illegals working off the books. You are up north. This IS THE BORDER and HERE at the borders (CA, AZ, TX, etc...)...well just saying YOU are an IGNORANT ass to think otherwise...HERE at the BORDER we live the cultures and the issues, unlike you northern city dweller. You are a gigantic jackass in all your BS posts. I see and talk to immigrants all the time, and I leave the reporting to the PROS and to ICE ICE baby because that's their job, not mine.

 

[RealDave]

I have a list of links if you care to read them about just that. So what happens if an illegal is caught trying to vote? They tell him or her they can't vote. Nobody calls the cops, nobody informs ICE; especially in sanctuary cities, nobody is hauled away. They just get turned down at the polls.

They don't get turned down at the polls, because nobody knows they're aliens. There's nothing to show it.

You have to be a registered voter to vote. There is an application that is reviewed & confirmed.

 

[Sahba]

America was set up from its inception as a special club, an enclave from the rest of the world with the unique guiding rudiments of the Bill Of Rights and an unparalleled Constitutional system. The requisite membership criteria was by birthright or by invitation - ONLY. As a special club, there is NO global rite to membership or visitation! The 'invitation' to outsider membership can be enforced, by Our whimsy, as it fits & correlates to our perceived interests. Membership can be suspended by the unitary executive at any time, if it deleteriously impacts the safety or prosperity of its citizenry... Why the hell do you think that Trump got elected~ !

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So your answer is yes, you would oppose having an ID law requiring proof of citizenship ? To keep aliens from voting. Well sure, because that would keep your illegal alien friends from voting, and helping to get Democrats elected.

And deflecting to how many illegals are voting or not, is a DODGE. Simply enacting a citizenship requirement isn't a big deal. It's inexpensive both with time and money, it's easy, and should be done, regardless of anybody's estimate of the illegality taking place.

And for the illegal alien voter, there's nothing "elusive" about him to me. I've talked to them all across the country, in voting halls, on construction sites, in office buildings doing janitorial work, around my apartment complex doing landscaping, etc. And they're always willing to brag about how many laws they break (voting no exception)

Whatever gave you the idea we hadn't found them ? Let me guess >> CNN, MSNBC, look no further.

Illegals are not voting.

Why would a person hiding from the law walk into a government run facility where they may be asked to show ID?

Why would a person cross our borders illegally or overstay their Visa illegally?

People that sneak into the country have about as much interest in our elections as we have in theirs. Any foreigner who would risk deportation and jail time to vote would have to be nuts since the chance of their vote making any difference is about 1 in million.

I have a list of links if you care to read them about just that. So what happens if an illegal is caught trying to vote? They tell him or her they can't vote. Nobody calls the cops, nobody informs ICE; especially in sanctuary cities, nobody is hauled away. They just get turned down at the polls.

ILLEGALS ARE NOT TRYING TO VOTE. You fucking ignorant lying POS.

They aren't? Glad you straightened that out for me:

What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

When you start off with The Moonie Times as a "news source", there's no taking you seriously. You also have Judicial Watch and the PJ Media. I'm surprised you didn't try to pass off something from the Daily Stormer.

Oh, okay, then I anxiously await for you to prove them wrong.

Do you have any from a credible source where people actually have degrees in journalism and don't work for the Moonie Church?

I bet you didn't read one paragraph of one post I pasted. You just look at the source like all liberals do instead of facing the truth.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yep, and that 85 year old guy sitting behind a table is a handwriting expert too!

Funny, I've been voting at my location for the last 15 years, and no one has ever tried to steal my identity and cast my ballot.

How is that, with voter fraud being so rampant?

Look, I realize that you live in mortal fear of the Darkies voting and getting some of your stuff, but really, it's the other white folks you need to watch out for.

So who said it was rampant? All I said is that yes, it's out there. But the problem with bad votes is that it's difficult to prove until you actually catch somebody or some people. It's like watching people speeding down the highway. They are breaking the law, but unless a cop laser's a car and pulls that person over, you don't have any proof people are speeding.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

So in other words, what you are saying is that our social programs encourage people to not create income of their own. I couldn't agree more.

So then the concept switches from needing more people to do the work to redoing our social programs so that social programs do encourage people to work. Again, I agree with that.

In other words, you stated that in the near future, we are going to need 6 million more workers than we have now so we must allow immigration. What's wrong with taking those 6 million collecting food stamps today from our food stamp and welfare pool? It would still leave 34 million on the dole!

Now.....doing the calculations, those 6 million foreigners would still be here to fill in the gap since we bring in over a million people a year into this country plus work Visa's and permits.

We don't need anymore immigration than what we have now. That's the point.

Unfilled job positions at the end of June was 6.7 million. The problem with forcing the people on foods stamps to fill those jobs is most of the adults are already working, 44% of those on food stamps are children, 9% are elderly, and 11% are disabled, and God knows how many are unemployable because of drugs, alcohol, and criminal convictions.

Having 6 million job openings is not a problem. The problem is the baby boomer retirements at the rate of 10,000 a day which will continue for nearly 10 years. Add that to normal job growth of 150,000 to 200,000 a month and that is a really big problem unless we discover a way to start clowning people. Even if we continue with immigration of 1 million a year, that will not come close to meeting our needs.

All social programs provide a reason not to work. Whether it actually encourages someone not to work depends on the person and circumstance. For a person who is physically incapable of working, any encouragement not to work is totally irrelevant. The same would hold truth for people that can earn substantial more working than they receive from welfare programs or a person that is between jobs, etc..

By gradually reducing benefits as income increases there is much reason to turn work down. With SNAP there are millions of people that are getting benefits as low as $15/mo per family.

SNAP like a number of other social programs do not pay for everything. SNAP stands for Supplemental Nourishment, Assistance program. Even if you qualify for full benefits, it will still be supplement and will not provide you with soap, toilet paper, sanitary napkins, toothpaste, pet food, vitamins, medicines, alcoholic beverages, tobacco products, hot food, any food sold for on-premises consumption, soft drinks, candy, cookies, snack crackers, ice cream seafood, steaks, bakery cakes, etc. In other words, a family has to have income from somewhere else to meet all their needs because SNAP won't.

Oh trust me I know. I see it at my local grocery store all the time. They load the belt with their SNAP items, and then whip out a wad of cash for their cigarettes, wine or beer, greeting cards, perfume, huge bags of dog food, cat litter, and then they push that cart to their late model SUV.

The newest scam is they ask people in line if they could use their food stamps to buy your items. Then at the end of the checkout, they will sell you your items back for five dollars less. You get the discount, they get the cash for their food stamps.

Wages in this country is almost a perfect system with supply and demand. When supply is plentiful, wages go down. When supply is limited, wages go up. Like I said, almost a perfect system unless you throw monkey wrenches into it like unions or immigrants. When you start doing that, you defeat the whole supply and demand concept. Forcing employers to pay more than they have to for labor increases costs to the consumer. Bringing in low level workers keeps pay scales down because the supply part is easily met.

I guess you see what you want to see. How do you know people are using SNAP? They put their groceries on the checkout counter, the clerk rings them up and the customer slides their EBT card just like a credit card. Sometimes people separate groceries and use two cards, maybe an EBT and a credit card or maybe just two separate credit cards. Anyway, I go to the grocery twice a week and I have never seen any of the things you see.

The biggest misconception about social programs is that the people that receive benefits are lazy bums and don't work when the truth is they do work and earn enough to pay a big part of the family expenses and their benefits are just a supplement.

I have a friend who manages our local Safeway Store. He told me that almost half of his employee's families have EBT cards and most of them get at least part of their healthcare coverage from Medicaid or the Children's Health Insurance Program.

At least in our state the snaps cards have huge letters saying SNAP'S . But besides that, if somebody is going to use a debit or credit card, they will put all their purchases on that card, not just some of them.

There is no logical reason to use a card and cash unless it's because of a government program.

That's nonsense. I go to the grocery a couple of times a week and buy stuff for neighbors and my daughter with cards and cash. I almost always have two piles of stuff on the counter, and I don't have an EBT card. The grocery stores I go to, the customer puts their credit, debt, or EBT card in the machine and it would be really hard to tell what kind of cards they have.

Ours are pretty obvious:

 

[JoeB131]

Study supports Trump: 5.7 million noncitizens may have cast illegal votes
By Rowan Scarborough - The Washington Times

Okay... So you are citing the Moonie Times as a source?

Do you think the Reverend Moon was the reincarnation of Jesus? Because they do.

 

[JoeB131]

So who said it was rampant? All I said is that yes, it's out there. But the problem with bad votes is that it's difficult to prove until you actually catch somebody or some people. It's like watching people speeding down the highway. They are breaking the law, but unless a cop laser's a car and pulls that person over, you don't have any proof people are speeding.

Yawn, guy, you are comparing it to "speeding"? Really?

You're just talking like an idiot saying "You have yet to prove that they are voting" Don't be an ass. It's that kind of dumbass talk that got Hillary Clinton thrown into the garbage. The "citizens of color" BS is just as dopey - more votes lost for Democrats. People don't appreciate being conned. And all the phony attacks on Trump RAISE his popularity. You still don't get it. Trump will win again.

Trump is going to be a one term president, if he doesn't get impeached or removed for being a crazy person, first.

But there was no illegals voting... sorry, just didn't happen. Hillary won by 3 million votes, but our awful system let a guy everyone knows is crazy take the job after the people said "No".

HA HA. Doesn't seem likely, huh? Sounds like you never talked to an illegal alien. I have HUNDREDS of times, for 40 years. You shouldn't even be in this discussion. You have no idea what you're talking about. Nobody is more talkative (in Spanish) than illegal aliens from Mexico, after they've had a couple of beers (which they drink even while working). You can trust me on that. This is what frequently happens when you talk to liberals. You say things you've known all your life, and they act like it's a question. Pheeeew! (high-pitched whistle) I feel like I'm talking to somebody who just arrived here from another planet, and doesn't know Anything.

I lived next door to an illegal alien for 10 years, and had no idea he was undocumented until he got deported. His wife and kids are still struggling to get by.

We talked a whole bunch of times, he never mentioned it once.

 

[OODA_Loop]

ILLEGALS ARE NOT TRYING TO VOTE. .

How would you know....?

 

[AZGAL]

Ha ha Joe you fall for the bait...It takes a Moonie to wake you up. YES dear ILLEGALS do vote.

 

[JoeB131]

Harms of Immigration

1. Americans lose jobs. (especially Whites due to affirmative action).

Only the dumb white trash, and honestly, fuck those guys.

10. Overcrowding in recreational facilities.

Funny, I go to recreational facilities all the time and they aren't "crowded".

14. Cultural erosion.

Not to worry, bud, your Trailer Park is still safe for your "Culture".

 

[JoeB131]

Why is it poor Americans are forgettable trash...just trying to preserve culture, or lower class jobs. that is characterized as "bad"? But Mexican illegal aliens can violate immigration law everyone else follows, suddenly Mexicans are poor victims and god's gift to mankind above immigration laws. How did that happen? Mexican culture is above all reproach because, well, because people that hire them say so. Well, do tell! We never noticed. Nobody else in American history has ever gotten this level of special treatment or entire cities given to "Sanctuary". Just Mexicans. Explain that to me. Please, do.

I could explain it to you and you still wouldn't understand it.

Okay, 150 years ago, they said the same thing about the Irish.
100 years ago, they said the same thing about the Germans.
50 years ago, they said the same thing about the Poles

 

[JoeB131]

Explain this to me, HOW did Mexican illegals earn sanctuary cities? I have known plenty of real immigrants over 50 years, they ALL had to follow immigration laws. They all got visas, and so on. Why are people over valuing Mexican immigrants, and why can't they follow the same immigration laws everyone has in the last 100 years? What makes them so extra special?

That our immigration laws are unworkable, and cities have to work within the reality of their populations.

That means that if your city services are seen as doing the work of ICE, people aren't going to report crimes, aren't going to be witnesses at trial, aren't going to report the guy who is selling drugs or stealing hubcaps.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yawn, guy, you are comparing it to "speeding"? Really?

A little slow today Joe? Point being (since you obviously ignored it) is that voter fraud can be gong on all the time undetected. We simply don't know. That's why Republicans introduced Voter-ID, so that we know who is and who is not voting.

 

[AZGAL]

Only the dumb white trash, and honestly, fuck those guys.

F -U Joe Low...You are one of those trash guys.

 

[AZGAL]

The "children in cages" hour is over...Time to let the world know the real news...(from ameangal):
***********************************************************************************************

Texas judge hears arguments on DACA challenge

By Tal Kopan and Jason Morris, CNN

Updated 5:15 PM ET, Wed August 8, 2018

District Judge Andrew Hanen, a George W. Bush appointee, heard arguments from 10 states that say DACA, a program that protects from deportation young undocumented immigrants who came to the US as children, is unconstitutional. Their arguments rely heavily on a previous court ruling from Hanen that blocked an expansion of the program and the creation of a similar program for immigrant parents in 2014 from going into effect.
Hanen did not rule Wednesday and said he would hold off ruling on the constitutionality of DACA for now and consider only the request to immediately stop it.

DACA was created by executive action during the Obama administration, but opponents of President Donald Trump's decision to end it have convinced multiple federal judges this year that doing so violates the Administrative Procedure Act, a federal law that dictates how the government can create or change regulations. Hanen asked for responses from both sides by Monday on whether DACA itself also runs afoul of the act.

The Trump administration decided to end DACA last September, in part due to a threat from Texas and other states to sue if it didn't. But in the months since, three federal judges around the country have ruled that decision was not adequately justified, and have ordered the program to remain.
Texas sued, in the end, to argue that the original program was unconstitutional so it could be wiped off the books. The administration has decided to not defend DACA in Hanen's court, so pro-immigrant groups and New Jersey stepped in to defend the program instead.

The Trump administration has argued to Hanen that if he decides to issue an immediate stoppage of the program, he should limit any ruling to recipients in the states that have sued and should delay his order's effectiveness to give the administration time to appeal. A Justice Department attorney reiterated that position Wednesday in court.

Attorneys for the immigration advocacy group MALDEF argued that a key issue facing Hanen is whether Texas and other states can legally bring the case to begin with and are suffering irreparable harm from DACA, which has existed for five years.
"In addition to the legality of DACA, one of the more important topics of today's hearing was whether Texas was suffering any kind of injury whatsoever from having DACA recipients living and working in the state," said MALDEF attorney Nina Perales. "Texas was not able to point to evidence that DACA recipients are costing the state anything."

Multiple cases
The Trump administration is already preparing to appeal a different order from a Washington, DC, district judge, which would require it to reopen the program to new applications and restore it in full. Previous courts had merely ordered the government to continue renewing permits. That judge postponed the implementation of his decision 20 days to allow for the appeal. Other cases are pending before appellate courts in California and New York.

Hanen is widely seen as unfriendly to DACA, given his previous ruling on its sister program, Deferred Action for Parents of Americans and Lawful Permanent Residents.
"Issues in front of the court are issues that have already been decided," the lead attorney for the states challenging DACA, Todd Disher, said in court Wednesday. "This is not a close case."
Obama's move was a "direct defiance" of the law, Disher added.

 

[Unkotare]

I have to ASK, at what price do we allow legal immigration? All the jobs lost to illegals, and then, say, all the American families broken up or lost for the sake of catering to Mexican illegals? How many millions of dollars and how many Americans have suffered as a consequence? And why do illegal aliens get such special treatment? Illegal aliens cost us our dignity, our collective soul and our culture Isn't that enough? What else can I say?

Holy histrionics, Batman! "our dignity, our collective soul and our culture"? Is this comedy hour now? The government has a responsibility to control our borders, and they have never done a sufficient job of it, but this swooning, overwrought drama bullshit is nothing but self-indulgent blather. Spamming the board with this same old silly shit over and over and over again improves nothing.

The very serious issues associated with illegal immigration are obscured when time and attention is wasted by hysterical fools pretending that no one ever spoke Spanish in America until about 20 years ago, that private conversations in a language you don't understand are any of your fucking business, or that every dish washed or fruit picked has a line of 100 Americans waiting for the chance and stomping their feet at the lost opportunity.

Illegal immigrants should not be here because our government should do its duty in preventing illegal crossing/staying. If someone here illegally commits a crime, it is a double outrage, and government officials should be held accountable. However, most illegal immigrants are human beings, not monsters. They are people with the same hopes and fears and love of family that any American has despite the fact that they should not be here illegally. Those who insist on referring to all such people with blanket terms of racism and ethnic hatred are clearly afraid of a situation they feel powerless over. Real adults conduct themselves with more thoughtfulness and "dignity."

 

[AZGAL]

Brown Taps Big Law Pipeline for Latest Trial Court Picks
Gov. Brown's appointments include partners from Jones Day; Orrick, Herrington & Sutcliffe; Irell & Manella; Gordon Rees Scully Mansukhani; and Perkins Coie.
By Cheryl Miller | UPDATEDFeb 28, 2018 at 06:51 PM

and it's a legal fight in Texas as in California...
Judge considers Texas bid to end DACA, focusing on his prior rulings ...
https://www.chron.com/.../Judge-considers-Texas-bid-to-end-DACA-focusing-131425...
Lawyers for the Mexican American Legal Defense and Educational Fund, an advocacy group representing 22 DACA recipients in Texas, ...