What human cost is acceptable in controling illegal immigration?

[protectionist]

They are being separated before they are convicted..

I don't know about that, but if so, why would that be the case ?

 

[protectionist]

This is nonsense.

We are NOT punishing children. No more than a convicted felon's child is punished when we send them to prison.

Do we stop enforcing our laws because the children will be separated from their parents who are acting criminally?

The answer is a resounding, no!

As for this nonsense of "human cost", it is nothing more than a phrase designed to instill anguish in political opposition for the purpose of achieving an agenda.

Exactly right. We don't hear these sob stories for the kids of American criminals sent to prison for long periods, or even for life, or the death penalty. But then, the American kids and their parents don't represent VOTES for Democrats, do they ?

 

[there4eyeM]

As the problem is presented here, things are (typically) divided into two sides. Every time, Americans resort to simplistic, binary argumentation.
The "strict constructionists" just point to the law and say to the humans involved (the potential immigrants), "Verbotten! Raus!"
The "bleeding hearts" just say, "Oh, the humanity, the poor little babies! How can we be cruel to them?"
Certainly, laws are in place and reasonable citizens expect them to be applied.
Certainly, humans are and should be sensitive to suffering.
Look at the situation in a larger scope.
What brings people to the point of straggling, with their children, across hostile environments to the border of a foreign country with a strange (to them) culture and a language they don't speak? Only desperation would push anyone to such a point. Desperation where they originated. If there were a possibility of decent existence there, they would never undertake such an arduous journey.
Of course these people are attracted by the beacon of a vital, rich America. We would be stupid not to realize we are so attractive. We are most assuredly going to have this problem as long as conditions are insufferable so close to our borders. We spend uncountable treasure on 'defense' from possible threats. Spending a little on a definite, imminent one is only reasonable. It would be cheapest to make efforts to improve "there" so these people don't come "here".
All the banter about who is more 'evil' in this situation serves only those who reign by division. Keep serving them at your risk, and the risk to all of us.

 

[protectionist]

Damn those Democrats for passing the law that requires the separation of parents and children!

Trump blames Democrats for his policy of separating migrant families at border
Trump blames Democrats for his policy of separating migrant families at border

The administration confirmed this month that breaking up families was a byproduct of their new "zero tolerance" plan to prosecute everyone who crosses the border illegally, which would require minors who traveled with their family to be taken into the custody of the Department of Health and Human Services. Under the previous policy, children were usually allowed to stay with their parents in shelters while awaiting legal proceedings.

Whatever happens, it is a "byproduct" of criminals committing crimes against our country, and the negligent countries they came from, in creating conditions so bad that these people would want to leave there, and make a long journey to come here.

 

[protectionist]

As the problem is presented here, things are (typically) divided into two sides. Every time, Americans resort to simplistic, binary argumentation.
The "strict constructionists" just point to the law and say to the humans involved (the potential immigrants), "Verbotten! Raus!"
The "bleeding hearts" just say, "Oh, the humanity, the poor little babies! How can we be cruel to them?"
Certainly, laws are in place and reasonable citizens expect them to be applied.
Certainly, humans are and should be sensitive to suffering.
Look at the situation in a larger scope.
What brings people to the point of straggling, with their children, across hostile environments to the border of a foreign country with a strange (to them) culture and a language they don't speak? Only desperation would push anyone to such a point. Desperation where they originated. If there were a possibility of decent existence there, they would never undertake such an arduous journey.
Of course these people are attracted by the beacon of a vital, rich America. We would be stupid not to realize we are so attractive. We are most assuredly going to have this problem as long as conditions are insufferable so close to our borders. We spend uncountable treasure on 'defense' from possible threats. Spending a little on a definite, imminent one is only reasonable. It would be cheapest to make efforts to improve "there" so these people don't come "here".
All the banter about who is more 'evil' in this situation serves only those who reign by division. Keep serving them at your risk, and the risk to all of us.

What kind of "efforts to improve "there" do you suggest ? Keep in mind that Mexico is a wealthy country, rich with resources of oil, gold, silver, agriculture, and tourism. Keep in mind also that the US is the # 1 victim of remittance imperialism the world, with Mexican imperialism pillaging us for $24 Billion /year + tens of Billions more in welfare $$ to Mexicans living here.

 

[EverCurious]

Fine. From now on all kids go with their parents to jail / "detention" centers (aka jails with nicer cells)

Hell, maybe it'll clean up some of the out of control American kids in the process.

 

[there4eyeM]

How much would a wall cost? Remember what history teaches about walls. We aren't talking about just the cost in money for the materials and labor. I'm certain that the tremendous American creativity can come up with ways of spending much less to induce people to remain and make efforts where they are than to wander through the desert seeking the promised land.

 

[EverCurious]

We the people voted for a wall. Cost is beside the point. Kind of like earlier we the people voted in a bunch of welfare programs; cost was, and still is, beside the point we're told.

 

[Darkwind]

 

[there4eyeM]

A minority of American voters voted for a candidate that talked about a lot of things, one of which was a wall that another country would pay for.
What viable, historically successful actions can America take, ones that are in keeping with American ideals?

 

[Kondor3]

What human cost is acceptable in controlling illegal immigration?

Let's ask the unemployed and job-displaced of America.

Let's ask the victims of wage-standards -lowering and wage-depression in various occupations and trades now saturated by cheap Illegal labor.

Let's ask the taxpayers of America whose hard-earned money goes to provide free education to those who sneaked-in or overstayed.

Let's ask the victims of crimes committed by Illegal Aliens.

Let's ask Americans in emergency rooms who wait for hours on-end because their local E.R. is full-to-the-rafters with Illegals.

Let's ask Americans who care about border integrity and national sovereignty and the Rule of Law in their Republic.

-------------------

Don't want your family split apart?

Don't cross over onto United States soil without our express prior consent.

 

[Kondor3]

No illegal aliens-children or otherwise-should be allowed to stay. Zero tolerance. End of story.

How about the unnecessary separation of children from their parents?

You're right.

It is, indeed, unnecessary.

Their parents should reflect upon the risk.

They are subjecting their children to unnecessary separation when they cross onto United States soil without our express prior consent.

Time to send a message.

To Illegal Aliens.

And to those who would rather stand alongside Illegal Aliens than their own fellow countrymen and the governing laws of their Republic.

Got the message yet?

 

[ThunderKiss1965]

Jeff Sessions and Donald Trump:

"If you are smuggling a child then we will prosecute you, and that child will be separated from you as required by law," Attorney General Jeff Sessions said Monday at a law enforcement conference in Scottsdale, Arizona. "If you don't like that, then don't smuggle children over our border."

Administration officials explained that the goal of the program is 100 percent prosecution of all who enter the U.S. illegally. When adults are prosecuted and jailed, their children will be separated from them, just as would happen for a U.S. citizen convicted and jailed.​

Anguish at Southwest border as more immigrant children are separated from parents

The Trump administration's willingness to take children from their parents has raised concerns about how far authorities should go to stem unauthorized border crossings and what human cost is acceptable in the name of border security and immigration control.

"There is something terrible happening here that Americans would not support if they understood it," said F. Scott McCown, director of the Children’s Rights Clinic at the University of Texas at Austin School of Law.​

I don't care how much you hate illegal immigrants this is EVIL. You are punishing the children. It's abhorrant and wrong and inexcusable. I hope they rot in hell for this. 700 children so far have been seperated from the only family they know and lost to our often incompetent and mismanaged child care system. I fail to see how any parent could support actions like these.

When parents are held for prosecution, their children are turned over to the Office of Refugee Resettlement, part of the Department of Health and Human Services. The children are then designated as "unaccompanied minors," and the government tries to connect them to family members who are already in the U.S. Until then, children wait in shelters or are sent to federally contracted foster homes, often without parents being told exactly where they are, immigration advocates said.

It may soon become even more difficult to place children with relatives. The Department of Homeland Security is proposing immigration checks be done on all people in a household who may take in these "unaccompanied" children, which means relatives who are undocumented may be less likely to come forward.

In the meantime, space in shelters and foster homes is limited; The Washington Post reported the administration plans to open facilities at military bases to house some of the separated children.​

So... importing future Democratic voters at any cost ?

 

[Syriusly]

Damn those Democrats for passing the law that requires the separation of parents and children!

Trump blames Democrats for his policy of separating migrant families at border
Trump blames Democrats for his policy of separating migrant families at border

The administration confirmed this month that breaking up families was a byproduct of their new "zero tolerance" plan to prosecute everyone who crosses the border illegally, which would require minors who traveled with their family to be taken into the custody of the Department of Health and Human Services. Under the previous policy, children were usually allowed to stay with their parents in shelters while awaiting legal proceedings.

Whatever happens, it is a "byproduct" of criminals committing crimes against our country, and the negligent countries they came from, in creating conditions so bad that these people would want to leave there, and make a long journey to come here.

Well that certainly explains Trump's lie that his policy is the Democrats fault.....

 

[Slyhunter]

My family is about to split apart because I can't find a job that'll pay the rent. My sister is disabled but not disabled enough to collect disability. They say she can still do a sit down job. My mother is retired. And two nephews. I lost my previous job because of a political post made in a news group that got cross posted onto Facebook. I lost my last job because I checked the wrong box on a form and accidentally charged a customer $299 more than we both thought I was charging him. oopsie. Can't find another job that'll pay the rent because all the illegals have driven wages down too low to support a family without a 4 year college degree.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

its all a scam using the so call widdle children as RAY says .

Really? There is an actual valid reason for separating children from their parents?

Yes, it's called a deterrent.

Terrorizing children. People like you need to be shipped off to Guantanamo for the rest of your miserable lives.

Then send the parents to Gitmo instead of us, because it's the parents that are causing their children harm--not us.

No, if we are separating them then it's us.

No, it's not. You come here illegally, everything that happens to you and your kids is your fault. You knew well ahead of time you are coming here and breaking our laws, so anything could happen at that point.

Let me ask, if a woman is drunk and driving around with her child, and she runs when the cops try to pull her over, and the child gets killed when she strikes a tree, do you blame the drunken mother or the police that tried to stop her?

We have enough irresponsible people in this country, we call them Democrats. We certainly don't need any more irresponsible people coming from other places.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

its all a scam using the so call widdle children as RAY says .

Really? There is an actual valid reason for separating children from their parents?

You mean from their criminal parents, YES.


.

They aren't convicted of a crime and if they don't demonstrate a threat to their children then their is not a valid reason. It's actually harmful to pull families apart.

Agreed. Then stay in your own country and keep your family together.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Yes, this is terrible. I think I know of a solution though: If you have children, STF away from our borders.

God you people are stupid. Her point is about the kids who didn’t choose to be smuggled over the border.

You mean just like the children of incarcerated bank robbers...and how the piece of shit parents forfeited them to the system by way of their own actions?

So you’re equating bank robbers to people who want a better life for their children by crossing a border? God you’re fucking stupid.

Are bank robbers and illegal border crossers breaking the law? How Fn stupid.

Stop pretending you give a shit about the rule of law when we know white collar corporate crime rarely goes punished. You don’t care about that because the GOP hasn’t told you to care about it.

Stay on topic. If you want to talk corporations and corporate crime, you're in the wrong forum.

 

[leftwinger]

What do you want done with them? Ritz-Cartlton? Homeless Shelter? Free house in Fort Worth? Detroit? You pay. Start a gofundme? Adopt them? Give out rooms in your vacation homes? Set up FEMA trailers, run plumbing-electric-AC.

What about American homeless?

 

[Claudette]

No illegal aliens-children or otherwise-should be allowed to stay. Zero tolerance. End of story.

I agree. Send them all back to whatever shithole they crawled out of. Every. Single. One.