What I love about the God of Abraham, Isaac & Jacob

[Sunni Man]

del, I'm brand new here and am trying to obey the rules. Please let me know if I'm crossing any lines, hope not. Thanks

JenT we have a PM feature on this board that you can use to privately suck up to Del

 

[JenT]

del, I'm brand new here and am trying to obey the rules. Please let me know if I'm crossing any lines, hope not. Thanks

JenT we have a PM feature on this board that you can use to privately suck up to Del

Sunni, odd how you changed your avie from a Muslim woman with a comic expression wrapped in the American flag to dutch dolls smooching, and you accuse me of sucking up?

 

[Sunni Man]

del, I'm brand new here and am trying to obey the rules. Please let me know if I'm crossing any lines, hope not. Thanks

JenT we have a PM feature on this board that you can use to privately suck up to Del

Sunni, odd how you changed your avie from a Muslim woman with a comic expression wrapped in the American flag to dutch dolls smooching, and you accuse me of sucking up?

Yesterday was the 4th of July so I felt kind of Patriotic and wanted to salute Independence Day.

So my avatar had an American flag to thank our founding fathers.

But I fail to see how an avatar of two hummel figurines is sucking up to anyone??

 

[JenT]

awwwww cute baby, is that your own?

whoah, that went fast

 

[Sunni Man]

awwwww cute baby, is that your own?

No, he isn't mine.

But since you approve, I will keep him up.

 

[JenT]

awwwww cute baby, is that your own?

No, he isn't mine.

But since you approve, I will keep him up.

well gosh thanks Sunni Man! I love kids.

 

[Bfgrn]

Hey Jen...a couple questions...

How many Gods are there?

If you're asking me to explain the Trinity, that's a mystery I'm satisfied to wait to ask God Himself.

Why does the Bible say God supports abortion? Numbers 5:11-31

BF! Apparently God provided a way for men to know for a fact if their wives had cheated on them and at the same time the answer to Kathy Smith's workout video. What are you trying to make out of that? It is NOT abortion!

God does not support abortion.

I'm not asking you to explain the Trinity, I asking you if there is one God, or many Gods?



Numbers 5:11-31.

According to this law, if a husband suspects that his wife has been unfaithful, he can force her to submit to a trial by ordeal.
The woman must then drink a holy potion made with water and dust from the floor of the tabernacle.
If the woman is innocent, drinking the bitter water that brings curses will not affect her.
If the woman is guilty, she will become ill and any fetus she carries in her womb will miscarry.
(Note: God has no problem with a fetus being killed as part of this ritual.)
All that's needed to set this ordeal in motion is suspicion on the part of the husband.
Wives do not have the right to do the same to husbands because this option is for males only.
This isn't simply a suggestion from God, it's a law, a moral absolute.
http://www.geocities.com/b_r_a_d_99/absolute.htm

 

[xotoxi]

Numbers 5:11-31 (New American Standard Bible)


The Adultery Test

11Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
12"Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, 'If any man's wife (A)goes astray and is unfaithful to him,
13and a man has (B)intercourse with her and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband and she is undetected, although she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act,
14if a spirit of (C)jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife when she has defiled herself, or if a spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife when she has not defiled herself,
15the man shall then bring his wife to the priest, and shall bring as an offering for her one-tenth of an ephah of barley meal; he shall not pour oil on it nor put frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of memorial, (D)a reminder of iniquity.
16'Then the priest shall bring her near and have her stand before the LORD,
17and the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel; and he shall take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water.
18'The priest shall then have the woman stand before the LORD and let the hair of the woman's head go loose, and place the grain offering of memorial in her hands, which is the grain offering of jealousy, and in the hand of the priest is to be the water of bitterness that brings a curse.
19'The priest shall have her take an oath and shall say to the woman, "If no man has lain with you and if you have not (E)gone astray into uncleanness, being under the authority of your husband, be immune to this water of bitterness that brings a curse;
20if you, however, have (F)gone astray, being under the authority of your husband, and if you have defiled yourself and a man other than your husband has had intercourse with you"
21(then the priest shall have the woman (G)swear with the oath of the curse, and the priest shall say to the woman), "the LORD make you a curse and an oath among your people by the LORD'S making your thigh waste away and your abdomen swell;
22and this water that brings a curse shall go into your stomach, and make your abdomen swell and your thigh waste away." And the woman (H)shall say, "Amen. Amen."
23'The priest shall then write these curses on a scroll, and he shall wash them off into the water of bitterness.
24'Then he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings a curse, so that the water which brings a curse will go into her and cause bitterness.
25'The priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy from the woman's hand, and he shall wave the grain offering before the LORD and bring it to the altar;
26and (I)the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering as its memorial offering and offer it up in smoke on the altar, and afterward he shall make the woman drink the water.
27'When he has made her drink the water, then it shall come about, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, that the water which brings a curse will go into her and cause bitterness, and her abdomen will swell and her thigh will waste away, and the woman will become (J)a curse among her people.
28'But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, she will then be free and conceive children.
29'This is the law of jealousy: when a wife, being under the authority of her husband, (K)goes astray and defiles herself,
30or when a spirit of jealousy comes over a man and he is jealous of his wife, he shall then make the woman stand before the LORD, and the priest shall apply all this law to her.
31'Moreover, the man will be free from guilt, but that woman shall (L)bear her guilt.'"

What happens if you are suspicious that your wife has been with another man, but you are fresh out of barley meal?

 

[JenT]

Numbers 5:11-31 (New American Standard Bible)


The Adultery Test

11Then the LORD spoke to Moses, saying,
12"Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, 'If any man's wife (A)goes astray and is unfaithful to him,
13and a man has (B)intercourse with her and it is hidden from the eyes of her husband and she is undetected, although she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act,
14if a spirit of (C)jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife when she has defiled herself, or if a spirit of jealousy comes over him and he is jealous of his wife when she has not defiled herself,
15the man shall then bring his wife to the priest, and shall bring as an offering for her one-tenth of an ephah of barley meal; he shall not pour oil on it nor put frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of memorial, (D)a reminder of iniquity.
16'Then the priest shall bring her near and have her stand before the LORD,
17and the priest shall take holy water in an earthenware vessel; and he shall take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water.
18'The priest shall then have the woman stand before the LORD and let the hair of the woman's head go loose, and place the grain offering of memorial in her hands, which is the grain offering of jealousy, and in the hand of the priest is to be the water of bitterness that brings a curse.
19'The priest shall have her take an oath and shall say to the woman, "If no man has lain with you and if you have not (E)gone astray into uncleanness, being under the authority of your husband, be immune to this water of bitterness that brings a curse;
20if you, however, have (F)gone astray, being under the authority of your husband, and if you have defiled yourself and a man other than your husband has had intercourse with you"
21(then the priest shall have the woman (G)swear with the oath of the curse, and the priest shall say to the woman), "the LORD make you a curse and an oath among your people by the LORD'S making your thigh waste away and your abdomen swell;
22and this water that brings a curse shall go into your stomach, and make your abdomen swell and your thigh waste away." And the woman (H)shall say, "Amen. Amen."
23'The priest shall then write these curses on a scroll, and he shall wash them off into the water of bitterness.
24'Then he shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings a curse, so that the water which brings a curse will go into her and cause bitterness.
25'The priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy from the woman's hand, and he shall wave the grain offering before the LORD and bring it to the altar;
26and (I)the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering as its memorial offering and offer it up in smoke on the altar, and afterward he shall make the woman drink the water.
27'When he has made her drink the water, then it shall come about, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, that the water which brings a curse will go into her and cause bitterness, and her abdomen will swell and her thigh will waste away, and the woman will become (J)a curse among her people.
28'But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, she will then be free and conceive children.
29'This is the law of jealousy: when a wife, being under the authority of her husband, (K)goes astray and defiles herself,
30or when a spirit of jealousy comes over a man and he is jealous of his wife, he shall then make the woman stand before the LORD, and the priest shall apply all this law to her.
31'Moreover, the man will be free from guilt, but that woman shall (L)bear her guilt.'"

What happens if you are suspicious that your wife has been with another man, but you are fresh out of barley meal?

LOLOLOL Xotoxi, I'm sure that would be the least of your worries, and probably the whole village, full of possessive wives, would be happy to supply it.

 

[jillian]

You have to understand that...

Why? By what authority do you claim to know my life better than I do? And Who the author of it is?

I know what I have seen and touched, I know how I've been healed and Who healed me, I know Who saved my life on a deserted highway and I know Who's ways radically changed my life.

I've seen dramatic evidence of His hand in my life time and time again, but my telling you about it isn't going to open your eyes. That's between you and the Holy Spirit.

But thanks for the feedback

all well and good. but same as i don't understand people who feel the need to disprove your belief, i'm afraid i don't quite get the need to convert others to your way of thinking, if that's what your goal is.

 

[mattskramer]

You have to understand that...

Why? By what authority do you claim to know my life better than I do? And Who the author of it is?

I know what I have seen and touched, I know how I've been healed and Who healed me, I know Who saved my life on a deserted highway and I know Who's ways radically changed my life.

I've seen dramatic evidence of His hand in my life time and time again, but my telling you about it isn't going to open your eyes. That's between you and the Holy Spirit.

But thanks for the feedback

all well and good. but same as i don't understand people who feel the need to disprove your belief, i'm afraid i don't quite get the need to convert others to your way of thinking, if that's what your goal is.

People like to convince people that they are right. Christians try to convince non-Christians that the story of Christ is true. Atheists try to convince Christians that God does not exist. It helps strengthen their beliefs. “If I can convince even you that I am right, then I must really be right.” People like to test the strength of their arguments and beliefs by challenging others. It is as simple as that.

 

[JenT]

Hey Jen...a couple questions...

How many Gods are there?

If you're asking me to explain the Trinity, that's a mystery I'm satisfied to wait to ask God Himself.

Why does the Bible say God supports abortion? Numbers 5:11-31

BF! Apparently God provided a way for men to know for a fact if their wives had cheated on them and at the same time the answer to Kathy Smith's workout video. What are you trying to make out of that? It is NOT abortion!

God does not support abortion.

I'm not asking you to explain the Trinity, I asking you if there is one God, or many Gods?

Are you using the word "god" as an adjective proper, a personal or a proper noun? as in a name identifying Eloheim? Because there are many "gods" as in judges but only One Eloheim, who is also often referred to in the plural because of the Trinity.

Numbers 5:11-31.

According to this law, if a husband suspects that his wife has been unfaithful, he can force her to submit to a trial by ordeal.
The woman must then drink a holy potion made with water and dust from the floor of the tabernacle.
If the woman is innocent, drinking the bitter water that brings curses will not affect her.
If the woman is guilty, she will become ill and any fetus she carries in her womb will miscarry.
(Note: God has no problem with a fetus being killed as part of this ritual.)
All that's needed to set this ordeal in motion is suspicion on the part of the husband.
Wives do not have the right to do the same to husbands because this option is for males only.
This isn't simply a suggestion from God, it's a law, a moral absolute.
http://www.geocities.com/b_r_a_d_99/absolute.htm

I would say that geocities has just lost all credibility and proved itself completely biased then, because no where does it mention a thigh to be a fetus or an infant in Hebrew.

I chose verse 27 because I think that's the closest you can attempt to grasp to make your insane case, and this is Rashi's commentary on it, a well known Jewish scholar. If you want a different verse just let me know.

27. He shall make her drink the water, and it shall be that, if she had been defiled and was unfaithful to her husband, the curse bearing waters shall enter her to become bitter, and her belly will swell, and her thigh will rupture. The woman will be a curse among her people. כז. וְהִשְׁקָהּ אֶת הַמַּיִם וְהָיְתָה אִם נִטְמְאָה וַתִּמְעֹל מַעַל בְּאִישָׁהּ וּבָאוּ בָהּ הַמַּיִם הַמְאָרֲרִים לְמָרִים וְצָבְתָה בִטְנָהּ וְנָפְלָה יְרֵכָהּ וְהָיְתָה הָאִשָּׁה לְאָלָה בְּקֶרֶב עַמָּהּ:
He shall make her drink the water: [The repetition of this statement is meant] to include that if she says, “I refuse to drink” after the scroll [in which God’s name is written] has been erased [by the water], they pour it into her, making her drink it against her will, unless [she admits and] says, “I have been defiled.” - [Sotah 19b] והשקה את המים: לרבות שאם אמרה איני שותה לאחר שנמחקה מגלה, מערערין אותה ומשקין אותה בעל כרחה, אלא אם כן אמרה טמאה אני:
her belly will swell: Although in reference to the curse, the thigh is mentioned first, the water tests [the body] only in the order it enters it [which is first the belly and then the thigh]. - [Sotah 9b] וצבתה בטנה וגו': אף על פי שבקללה הזכיר ירך תחילה, המים אין בודקין אלא דרך כניסתן בה:
The woman will be a curse: As I explained (verse 21), everyone will curse by her [name]. — [Sifrei Naso 1:73] והיתה האשה לאלה: כמו שפירשתי שהיו הכל אלין בה:
among her people: There is a difference between a person who is disgraced in a place where he is known and a person who is disgraced in a place where he is unknown. — [Sifrei Naso 1:64]

Sorry but I don't have time to edit out all the Hebrew translation right now...late

Chhhhhh, geocities wrote no Christian would touch this? Obviously not an impartial source.

 

[JenT]

Why? By what authority do you claim to know my life better than I do? And Who the author of it is?

I know what I have seen and touched, I know how I've been healed and Who healed me, I know Who saved my life on a deserted highway and I know Who's ways radically changed my life.

I've seen dramatic evidence of His hand in my life time and time again, but my telling you about it isn't going to open your eyes. That's between you and the Holy Spirit.

But thanks for the feedback

all well and good. but same as i don't understand people who feel the need to disprove your belief, i'm afraid i don't quite get the need to convert others to your way of thinking, if that's what your goal is.

People like to convince people that they are right. Christians try to convince non-Christians that the story of Christ is true. Atheists try to convince Christians that God does not exist. It helps strengthen their beliefs. “If I can convince even you that I am right, then I must really be right.” People like to test the strength of their arguments and beliefs by challenging others. It is as simple as that.

no it's more like when God told me to slow down on a deserted highway to the point I was going so slow I had concern about traffic coming from behind (395) and then lo and behold FOUR headlights were coming at me on a narrow two-lane highway with soft shoulders that would have made me flip....and my young sons were sleeping in that minivan...worrying about whether non-believers would believe me wasn't really on my mind.

 

[Bfgrn]

If you're asking me to explain the Trinity, that's a mystery I'm satisfied to wait to ask God Himself.



BF! Apparently God provided a way for men to know for a fact if their wives had cheated on them and at the same time the answer to Kathy Smith's workout video. What are you trying to make out of that? It is NOT abortion!

God does not support abortion.

I'm not asking you to explain the Trinity, I asking you if there is one God, or many Gods?

Are you using the word "god" as an adjective proper, a personal or a proper noun? as in a name identifying Eloheim? Because there are many "gods" as in judges but only One Eloheim, who is also often referred to in the plural because of the Trinity.

Numbers 5:11-31.

According to this law, if a husband suspects that his wife has been unfaithful, he can force her to submit to a trial by ordeal.
The woman must then drink a holy potion made with water and dust from the floor of the tabernacle.
If the woman is innocent, drinking the bitter water that brings curses will not affect her.
If the woman is guilty, she will become ill and any fetus she carries in her womb will miscarry.
(Note: God has no problem with a fetus being killed as part of this ritual.)
All that's needed to set this ordeal in motion is suspicion on the part of the husband.
Wives do not have the right to do the same to husbands because this option is for males only.
This isn't simply a suggestion from God, it's a law, a moral absolute.
http://www.geocities.com/b_r_a_d_99/absolute.htm

I would say that geocities has just lost all credibility and proved itself completely biased then, because no where does it mention a thigh to be a fetus or an infant in Hebrew.

I chose verse 27 because I think that's the closest you can attempt to grasp to make your insane case, and this is Rashi's commentary on it, a well known Jewish scholar. If you want a different verse just let me know.

27. He shall make her drink the water, and it shall be that, if she had been defiled and was unfaithful to her husband, the curse bearing waters shall enter her to become bitter, and her belly will swell, and her thigh will rupture. The woman will be a curse among her people. כז. וְהִשְׁקָהּ אֶת הַמַּיִם וְהָיְתָה אִם נִטְמְאָה וַתִּמְעֹל מַעַל בְּאִישָׁהּ וּבָאוּ בָהּ הַמַּיִם הַמְאָרֲרִים לְמָרִים וְצָבְתָה בִטְנָהּ וְנָפְלָה יְרֵכָהּ וְהָיְתָה הָאִשָּׁה לְאָלָה בְּקֶרֶב עַמָּהּ:
He shall make her drink the water: [The repetition of this statement is meant] to include that if she says, “I refuse to drink” after the scroll [in which God’s name is written] has been erased [by the water], they pour it into her, making her drink it against her will, unless [she admits and] says, “I have been defiled.” - [Sotah 19b] והשקה את המים: לרבות שאם אמרה איני שותה לאחר שנמחקה מגלה, מערערין אותה ומשקין אותה בעל כרחה, אלא אם כן אמרה טמאה אני:
her belly will swell: Although in reference to the curse, the thigh is mentioned first, the water tests [the body] only in the order it enters it [which is first the belly and then the thigh]. - [Sotah 9b] וצבתה בטנה וגו': אף על פי שבקללה הזכיר ירך תחילה, המים אין בודקין אלא דרך כניסתן בה:
The woman will be a curse: As I explained (verse 21), everyone will curse by her [name]. — [Sifrei Naso 1:73] והיתה האשה לאלה: כמו שפירשתי שהיו הכל אלין בה:
among her people: There is a difference between a person who is disgraced in a place where he is known and a person who is disgraced in a place where he is unknown. — [Sifrei Naso 1:64]

Sorry but I don't have time to edit out all the Hebrew translation right now...late

Chhhhhh, geocities wrote no Christian would touch this? Obviously not an impartial source.

OK, I see that you would rather obfuscate than answer...

Let's try this...how many creators are there?

I suggest you educate yourself on WHY the evangelical right became politically active. It had nothing to do with Roe v. Wade; they really had no problem with that ruling.It was because the IRS went after Robert Jones University over their racial discrimination.

 

[JenT]

I'm not asking you to explain the Trinity, I asking you if there is one God, or many Gods?

Are you using the word "god" as an adjective proper, a personal or a proper noun? as in a name identifying Eloheim? Because there are many "gods" as in judges but only One Eloheim, who is also often referred to in the plural because of the Trinity.

Numbers 5:11-31.

According to this law, if a husband suspects that his wife has been unfaithful, he can force her to submit to a trial by ordeal.
The woman must then drink a holy potion made with water and dust from the floor of the tabernacle.
If the woman is innocent, drinking the bitter water that brings curses will not affect her.
If the woman is guilty, she will become ill and any fetus she carries in her womb will miscarry.
(Note: God has no problem with a fetus being killed as part of this ritual.)
All that's needed to set this ordeal in motion is suspicion on the part of the husband.
Wives do not have the right to do the same to husbands because this option is for males only.
This isn't simply a suggestion from God, it's a law, a moral absolute.
http://www.geocities.com/b_r_a_d_99/absolute.htm

I would say that geocities has just lost all credibility and proved itself completely biased then, because no where does it mention a thigh to be a fetus or an infant in Hebrew.

I chose verse 27 because I think that's the closest you can attempt to grasp to make your insane case, and this is Rashi's commentary on it, a well known Jewish scholar. If you want a different verse just let me know.

27. He shall make her drink the water, and it shall be that, if she had been defiled and was unfaithful to her husband, the curse bearing waters shall enter her to become bitter, and her belly will swell, and her thigh will rupture. The woman will be a curse among her people. כז. וְהִשְׁקָהּ אֶת הַמַּיִם וְהָיְתָה אִם נִטְמְאָה וַתִּמְעֹל מַעַל בְּאִישָׁהּ וּבָאוּ בָהּ הַמַּיִם הַמְאָרֲרִים לְמָרִים וְצָבְתָה בִטְנָהּ וְנָפְלָה יְרֵכָהּ וְהָיְתָה הָאִשָּׁה לְאָלָה בְּקֶרֶב עַמָּהּ:
He shall make her drink the water: [The repetition of this statement is meant] to include that if she says, “I refuse to drink” after the scroll [in which God’s name is written] has been erased [by the water], they pour it into her, making her drink it against her will, unless [she admits and] says, “I have been defiled.” - [Sotah 19b] והשקה את המים: לרבות שאם אמרה איני שותה לאחר שנמחקה מגלה, מערערין אותה ומשקין אותה בעל כרחה, אלא אם כן אמרה טמאה אני:
her belly will swell: Although in reference to the curse, the thigh is mentioned first, the water tests [the body] only in the order it enters it [which is first the belly and then the thigh]. - [Sotah 9b] וצבתה בטנה וגו': אף על פי שבקללה הזכיר ירך תחילה, המים אין בודקין אלא דרך כניסתן בה:
The woman will be a curse: As I explained (verse 21), everyone will curse by her [name]. — [Sifrei Naso 1:73] והיתה האשה לאלה: כמו שפירשתי שהיו הכל אלין בה:
among her people: There is a difference between a person who is disgraced in a place where he is known and a person who is disgraced in a place where he is unknown. — [Sifrei Naso 1:64]

Sorry but I don't have time to edit out all the Hebrew translation right now...late

Chhhhhh, geocities wrote no Christian would touch this? Obviously not an impartial source.

OK, I see that you would rather obfuscate than answer...

Let's try this...how many creators are there?

I suggest you educate yourself on WHY the evangelical right became politically active. It had nothing to do with Roe v. Wade; they really had no problem with that ruling.It was because the IRS went after Robert Jones University over their racial discrimination.

LOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!! you BLATENTLY try to put forth facts you have NO clue what you're talking about, it doesn't hold up for a second and suddenly my response (which nailed your accusation to the wall) is obfuscating???

face it! God IS that He IS and He died that we could be reconciled to Him! How many obstacles are you gonna run and try to collect to escape that?

 

[Kalam]

You've got to be kidding. The two books considered most holy are the Koran and the Hadith. The Koran is believed to be the miracle of Muhammad and a proof of his prophethood. The Hadith is all about the method of Muhammed. The prayers, the continual references to Mohammed as the prophet, it's all based on what Mohammed began, it is astounding that you claim no significance.

Where did I claim no significance?

The holy book of Islam is the Qur'an. There is no single book called the "Hadith"... ahadith are oral traditions that discuss the life and words of the prophet and are not considered holy. There are specific hadith collections that Sunnis believe to be authentic, collections revered by Shi'a Muslims, collections accepted by both, and Islamic sects that disbelieve in the authenticity or verifiability of ahadith in general.

The verse you quoted is correct in that the Koran states that Allah has no son and there is no diety apart from Allah. But to claim that Mohammed is not given any more significance than every other prophet, I'm just stunned. Is this a new ploy because the method of Mohammed, approaching in peace with sword backup, outlined in the Hadith...is this a new ploy to get around those writings? Might as well, America seems to be swallowing whatever we are spoonfed in public education.

I haven't downplayed the significance of Muhammad; I pointed out that the Qur'an itself says that he isn't to be regarded as holier than or superior to other messengers. I take offense to being accused of participating in some sort of "ploy." You may be new here, but I don't think that gives you the right to accuse me of dishonesty when you really don't know anything about me or about my religion. Your mischaracterization of Muhammad's message lends weight to my belief that you've been influenced by propaganda.

Kalam, I didn't mean to imply that public school teachers are all out to convert our children to Islam. I know many teachers and that isn't the case at all. But there is a ton of evidence that points to Bill Clinton negotiating with Muslim leaders to introduce a lot of very pro-Islam curricula that is in our textbooks today.

I've seen none of this evidence.

Meanwhile Christianity and Judeo beliefs are dissed to the extreme.

I've seen nothing of this sort either.

It's obvious to anyone that reads the evidence, shocking but obvious, and backed up by other reporters and a pdf of the court case. It's one of the biggest hushed stories in the media. Newsmax and WND confirmed it all and added their own findings.

How Clinton Sold
Our Children to Islam
How Clinton Surrendered Children Islam

I might find the information more compelling if it was presented by less biased source... and if it didn't directly contradict the impression of the public school system that I have as a result of my experiences with it.

 

[Kalam]

A God with foreknowledge and omniscience would have ordered the universe in such a way that intervention would be unnecessary for things to play out according to what God had already planned..

you assume that such a being is intelligent, benevolent, and possessing no psychological complex.

That is what they assume. My argument is based on their conception of God and why I believe it to be somewhat illogical.

 

[JenT]

OK, I see that you would rather obfuscate than answer...

Let's try this...how many creators are there?

One Godhead. Father, Son and the Holy Spirit.

I suggest you educate yourself on WHY the evangelical right became politically active. It had nothing to do with Roe v. Wade; they really had no problem with that ruling.It was because the IRS went after Robert Jones University over their racial discrimination.

Who exactly are you accusing of being the evangelical right conspiring in such dubious plots? And why should I care? I don't answer to whoever it is you're apparently afraid of?

 

[Kalam]

and who are you and Sunni trying to villify right now?

Nobody. I gain nothing at this point from the vilification of any person or group of people. I have pointed out the tendency of many people, including you, to stress the differences between religions and belief systems rather than similarities. I have expressed my belief that this type of thought inhibits forward movement.

Again, all I did was post why I love the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and Sunni Man told me I had to include Ishmael.

I stated why I don't. It's not Biblical.

I have posted Biblical backup. I was asked to quote the Koran and I did. Are you trying to silence me? If I don't accept that we have common ground, suddenly you're posting and reposting that I'm attacking???

Last time I looked this was a free country though that's looking perilous, and now politically correct pressure to embrace Islam? Right here from a poster on this message board.

Jen, you're being ridiculous. I'm pressuring you to embrace Islam? Are you familiar with the term "strawman argument"? I've simply suggested that you abandon your prejudicial beliefs regarding Islam because, frankly, they're based on prevarications and propagandistic nonsense.

It's not even that which I'm primarily concerned with. I simply feel compelled to defend my religious beliefs when they're attacked. If you're interested in putting forward some sort of criticism of Islam, feel free to start a thread on the subject. I'll try to respond as soon as I'm made aware of its existence.

Which is ironic because Kalam, tell me, what does Sharia law say is to happen to anyone that converts to Christianity? What is Sharia law based on?

That really depends on what you mean by Sharia law. True Islamic law, Qur'anic law, mentions no punishment for apostasy and only describes its ramifications in the hereafter. If you can find a passage in the Qur'an that specifies an earthly punishment for apostasy, feel free to share it with me.

Modern schools of jurisprudence follow a convoluted form of Sharia based mostly on the accumulated whims and prejudices of individual "Islamic" jurists and have strayed quite far from their Qur'anic origins.

Apparently Islam, approaching in "peace", is keenly aware of the differences, even as you claim common ground. Sure like that's REALLY common ground...something to be killed over.

You are accusing me of being dishonest. I kindly suggest that you stop.

Your beliefs are not an abomination to you and I respect that. Believe whatever you want to believe. But you do not have the authority to tell me that I must include Ishmael when I speak of the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. It's not Biblical.

That is between you and Sunni Man. I will say, though, I don't think he ever told you that you must include anything.

And for teachers to tell my children to get on their hands and knees and pray to Allah and repeat by heart that Allah is the only god worthy of praise and Mohammed is his messenger...THAT is very much an abomination and violation of my religious freedom as well as my children's .

That has not happened.

 

[Barb]

Ya get a grip jen, you should believe that your prophet is a towelhead who married and banged a 9 year old. tha makes so much more sense, not to forget realistic!!!!!

Mohammad didn't "bang" (how touching) the nine year old Aisha. Marriage is different in other cultures, and it isn't always consummated immediately (or ever, in the case of war widows who are married into families to protect them). In any case, Aisha is an interesting person in history. Look her up.