What if she didn't have a gun?

[Quantum Windbag]

I am pretty okay with current gun laws. I think you should back ground check at gun shows, but most do.

Every single gun sold by a dealer at every single gun show goes thru a background check, else the dealer breaks the law.

No background checks for private sales.

Oh my GAWD, the government cannot control everything everyone does! How will society survive?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No actually it does.

To date, NICS queries of criminal databases have resulted in 1,065,090 denials, with 88,479 in 2012 alone.

That is not what you said.

Background checks have stopped over a million sales to criminals. Once we register guns and make it so all sales need a background check there will be even more stopped.

A denial is not the same thing as preventing a sale to a criminal. They even have an appeals process for people who are denied and believe that there was a mistake. Funny thing about that, since any finding of a proceed has to be cleared within 24 hours it is entirely possible for someone to get denied, file an appeal, win, and still get denied the next time they buy a gun. That is why they set up the VAF system where you can elect to keep your records on file so that, when you get denied, they can see that they are wrong. Despite this, they still managed to deny people in that system 4,020 times in 2012 alone.

FBI ? NICS Operations Report 2012

In case you have as much trouble with math now as you did last time I showed you some numbers, that is roughly 5% of the denials they had for that year. That figure is only a small portion of the number of appeals they receive each year.

Tell me something, oh font of all things stupid, if they actually catch over 38,000 criminals trying to buy a gun every year, which is a fucking felony, why aren't they arresting them?

To date, NICS queries of criminal databases have resulted in 1,065,090 denials, with 88,479 in 2012 alone.

Is that your admission that you lied, or are you just repeating the same nonsense in the hope that people won't notice that you are a lying sack of shit?

 

[Brain357]

Oh look - no response.
Another anti-gun loon that can't deliver. No surprise.

Funny I've shot down every pro gun argument there is on this thread...

Only in your mind.

You are so out of touch with reality you're in danger of being put on ignore by anyone smart enough to stop arguing with you. You are a worse time waster than Twitter.

Sorry but I haven't heard a single good reason not to register guns and require background checks on all sales. Just a lot of pro criminal arguments.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No background checks for private sales.

In some states you are required to file a blue card to note transfer of ownership or a firearm.

That's good enough.

Some states? I don't think it is very many. And regardless, all gun sales should require a background check. It's just common sense.

It is common sense that a police officer cannot sell a gun to another police officer without government approval? What kind of world do you live in?

 

[Brain357]

In some states you are required to file a blue card to note transfer of ownership or a firearm.

That's good enough.

Some states? I don't think it is very many. And regardless, all gun sales should require a background check. It's just common sense.

It doesn't really matter as only a small percentage of guns are sold from private owners to other private owners.

It's not the problem you seem to think it is.

Well if it's such a small percentage you have no reason to be against it. Unless your a criminal of course.

 

[Brain357]

That is not what you said.



A denial is not the same thing as preventing a sale to a criminal. They even have an appeals process for people who are denied and believe that there was a mistake. Funny thing about that, since any finding of a proceed has to be cleared within 24 hours it is entirely possible for someone to get denied, file an appeal, win, and still get denied the next time they buy a gun. That is why they set up the VAF system where you can elect to keep your records on file so that, when you get denied, they can see that they are wrong. Despite this, they still managed to deny people in that system 4,020 times in 2012 alone.

FBI ? NICS Operations Report 2012

In case you have as much trouble with math now as you did last time I showed you some numbers, that is roughly 5% of the denials they had for that year. That figure is only a small portion of the number of appeals they receive each year.

Tell me something, oh font of all things stupid, if they actually catch over 38,000 criminals trying to buy a gun every year, which is a fucking felony, why aren't they arresting them?

To date, NICS queries of criminal databases have resulted in 1,065,090 denials, with 88,479 in 2012 alone.

Is that your admission that you lied, or are you just repeating the same nonsense in the hope that people won't notice that you are a lying sack of shit?

Nothing nonsense about it. It's from the fbi website. Over 1,065,090 denials. That is a huge number. Thankfully we have those background checks.

 

[Spiderman]

Some states? I don't think it is very many. And regardless, all gun sales should require a background check. It's just common sense.

It doesn't really matter as only a small percentage of guns are sold from private owners to other private owners.

It's not the problem you seem to think it is.

Well if it's such a small percentage you have no reason to be against it. Unless your a criminal of course.

Why is it you control freaks love to focus on the minutia and not the real problem of gang violence which is the cause of 80% of all gun murders?

 

[Brain357]

It doesn't really matter as only a small percentage of guns are sold from private owners to other private owners.

It's not the problem you seem to think it is.

Well if it's such a small percentage you have no reason to be against it. Unless your a criminal of course.

Why is it you control freaks love to focus on the minutia and not the real problem of gang violence which is the cause of 80% of all gun murders?

If we registered all guns and required background checks for all sales then it would be harder for gangs to get them. So it is about gang violence and any other gun crimes.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yes it does. You just don't want it to.

Background checks stopped 1 millions sales of guns, it's pretty simple. I am guessing they kept track of denied applications.

It has nothing to do with illegal sales or if they were still able to buy a gun. Stop being an idiot. 2+2 doesn't equal 2000. It just simply means a million applications were denied due to criminal record. You are over thinking it and looking like an idiot.

Perhaps you can cut and paste the part of the article that supports your claim that background checks stopped "1 millions" sales of guns, for I don't see that in the article either. I see where it talks about how many sales have been processed and how many per day, and even how many employees there are to do the checks. But, I don't see where it says how many sales have been stopped.

3rd paragraph bottom. I think my 6 year old could find it.


Sent from my iPhone using the tears of Raider's fans.

Except that a denial does not actually mean that a gun sale is stopped because they are all subject to appeal, and the FBI, for some strange reason, only publishes stats on appeals that are processed through the Voluntary Appeal File where a person can tell the FBI to keep a file on them that proves that they can legally buy a gun. They then issue you a UPIN ID that you can use to preempt the denial before it happens. Despite this process, they still manage to deny people who fall into this category. If they actually deny people they already know can buy a gun because they have a file that proves it, how often do you think they deny people without a file that can actually buy a gun?

FBI ? NICS Appeals Brochure - In English

 

[Spiderman]

Well if it's such a small percentage you have no reason to be against it. Unless your a criminal of course.

Why is it you control freaks love to focus on the minutia and not the real problem of gang violence which is the cause of 80% of all gun murders?

If we registered all guns and required background checks for all sales then it would be harder for gangs to get them. So it is about gang violence and any other gun crimes.

And just how do you propose you get criminals to obey that law?

 

[Brain357]

Why is it you control freaks love to focus on the minutia and not the real problem of gang violence which is the cause of 80% of all gun murders?

If we registered all guns and required background checks for all sales then it would be harder for gangs to get them. So it is about gang violence and any other gun crimes.

And just how do you propose you get criminals to obey that law?

Well if your gun is registered and you know you'll go to jail for selling it without a background check your much less likely to sell it to a criminal. duh

 

[Brain357]

Perhaps you can cut and paste the part of the article that supports your claim that background checks stopped "1 millions" sales of guns, for I don't see that in the article either. I see where it talks about how many sales have been processed and how many per day, and even how many employees there are to do the checks. But, I don't see where it says how many sales have been stopped.

3rd paragraph bottom. I think my 6 year old could find it.


Sent from my iPhone using the tears of Raider's fans.

Except that a denial does not actually mean that a gun sale is stopped because they are all subject to appeal, and the FBI, for some strange reason, only publishes stats on appeals that are processed through the Voluntary Appeal File where a person can tell the FBI to keep a file on them that proves that they can legally buy a gun. They then issue you a UPIN ID that you can use to preempt the denial before it happens. Despite this process, they still manage to deny people who fall into this category. If they actually deny people they already know can buy a gun because they have a file that proves it, how often do you think they deny people without a file that can actually buy a gun?

FBI ? NICS Appeals Brochure - In English

Are you suggesting it's not still a huge number of denials?

 

[Spiderman]

If we registered all guns and required background checks for all sales then it would be harder for gangs to get them. So it is about gang violence and any other gun crimes.

And just how do you propose you get criminals to obey that law?

Well if your gun is registered and you know you'll go to jail for selling it without a background check your much less likely to sell it to a criminal. duh

Oh like it's against the law to drive drunk?

Like it's against the law to speed

Like it's against the law to _________ (fill in the blank)

Are you that naive?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

Yes it does. You just don't want it to.
Background checks stopped 1 millions sales of guns, it's pretty simple. I am guessing they kept track of denied applications.
It has nothing to do with illegal sales or if they were still able to buy a gun. Stop being an idiot. 2+2 doesn't equal 2000. It just simply means a million applications were denied due to criminal record. You are over thinking it and looking like an idiot.


Sent from my iPhone using the tears of Raider's fans.

Aren't you the one that made the claim that background checks prevented 2 million criminals from buying guns? If you read Brain's link you will see it doesn't even back up his less absurd number of 1 million, much less your 2 million.

That link only goes back to 1998 when the current system started. Background checks were started before that.
Why is it so hard to believe at least 1 million if not more were denied after a back ground check? There are millions of felons etc in the US. It doesn't seem absurd at all. It's actually pretty easy to understand.



Sent from my iPhone using the tears of Raider's fans.

What I believe is irrelevant, what you can prove is what matters. Can you prove you are right?

To illustrate, I proved that Brain is wrong with his claim of 1 million criminals were prevented from buying a gun, which is why he is repeating a completely irrelevant statistic to try and show how stupid he is. If you simply admit you can't prove your 2 million number we can both comfortably believe whatever we want, and proceed from there.

 

[Luissa]

Perhaps you can cut and paste the part of the article that supports your claim that background checks stopped "1 millions" sales of guns, for I don't see that in the article either. I see where it talks about how many sales have been processed and how many per day, and even how many employees there are to do the checks. But, I don't see where it says how many sales have been stopped.

3rd paragraph bottom. I think my 6 year old could find it.


Sent from my iPhone using the tears of Raider's fans.

Except that a denial does not actually mean that a gun sale is stopped because they are all subject to appeal, and the FBI, for some strange reason, only publishes stats on appeals that are processed through the Voluntary Appeal File where a person can tell the FBI to keep a file on them that proves that they can legally buy a gun. They then issue you a UPIN ID that you can use to preempt the denial before it happens. Despite this process, they still manage to deny people who fall into this category. If they actually deny people they already know can buy a gun because they have a file that proves it, how often do you think they deny people without a file that can actually buy a gun?

FBI ? NICS Appeals Brochure - In English

You are thinking too hard.


Sent from my iPhone using the tears of Raider's fans.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I am pretty okay with current gun laws. I think you should back ground check at gun shows, but most do.

Every single gun sold by a dealer at every single gun show goes thru a background check, else the dealer breaks the law.

Not every, but most like I said.


Sent from my iPhone using the tears of Raider's fans.

Dealers will lose their license and end up in prison if they sell a gun to a friend out of their garage without a background check, do you really think they will risk making a sale at a gun show that is crawling with cops and ATF agents without a background check?

 

[Quantum Windbag]

No background checks for private sales.

Guy, STFU.

There is no way possible to make sure that happens. Not even total confiscations will assure that you brainless twit!!!!!!

Registering would make sure that the vast majority of them went through background checks. If a sale doesn't go through a background check it could be tracked to the owner who sold it without one.

Keep telling yourself that, it probably makes you feel almost as smart as when you claimed that background checks actually prevented 1 million gun sales to criminals. Remember how I called that absurd, and you proved I was right?

 

[Brain357]

And just how do you propose you get criminals to obey that law?

Well if your gun is registered and you know you'll go to jail for selling it without a background check your much less likely to sell it to a criminal. duh

Oh like it's against the law to drive drunk?

Like it's against the law to speed

Like it's against the law to _________ (fill in the blank)

Are you that naive?

Well it works for machine guns. So no not naïve at all.

 

[Quantum Windbag]

I understand you do not like the truth, but the truth it remains.

Disagree?
I then issue a challenge:

Present a sound argument for more gun control - "reasonable gun regulation" as you choose to call it.

1: Define the additional gun control measures you seek
2: Show the necessity for these measures
3: Show that these measures will meet the need you described
4: Show that these measures do not infringe upon the rights of the law abiding
5: Do all of this without arguing from emotion, ignorance, dishonesty or any other logical fallacies.

Example of a failed argument
1: We need to ban the sale of assault weapons
2: These guns are far too dangerous for civilians to own
3: Banning assault weapons will prevent massacres like we saw in Newtown
4: No one needs an assault weapon to hunt

Failures of this argument:
2: There is no way to support this statement, given how few ‘assault weapons’, proportionately and absolutely, are used in crime, especially homicide
3: Banning the sale of ‘assault weapons’ does not remove existing ‘assault weapons’, and so cannot prevent another such shooting
4: The right to arms is protected by the constitution so that, when necessary, people will have access to the most effective means through which kill other people, not hunt. As such, any argument relating infringement to the capacity to hunt is meaningless.

Ok – have at it. Good luck!

Oh look - no response.
Another anti-gun loon that can't deliver. No surprise.

Funny I've shot down every pro gun argument there is on this thread...

You did? Where? Be specific, because all I have seen you do is lie about everything.

Wait, that lying about everything thing explains your post, never mind.

 

[Brain357]

Every single gun sold by a dealer at every single gun show goes thru a background check, else the dealer breaks the law.

Not every, but most like I said.


Sent from my iPhone using the tears of Raider's fans.

Dealers will lose their license and end up in prison if they sell a gun to a friend out of their garage without a background check, do you really think they will risk making a sale at a gun show that is crawling with cops and ATF agents without a background check?

What? You mean they would go to jail and that keeps them from doing it? Wow you just supported background checks on private sales. Thank you.