what is a liberal and which historical leaders were liberals?

[bayoubill]

you obviously don't know jack about Frank...

I have to back Bill here. FZ was never a liberal. And I doubt he would punch anyone in the cock, but I don't know that for sure.

I don't think that anyone can effectively argue that Zappa was a conservative.

I don't think that anyone can effectively argue that Zappa could be labelled, one way or the other...

 

[rightwinger]

Liberal Historical Leaders

Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
Abe Lincoln
Teddy Roosevelt
Woodrow Wilson
FDR
JFK
Martin Luther King

Conservative Historical Leaders

James Buchannon
Grover Cleveland
Warren Harding
Calvin Coolidge
Joe McCarthy
Ron Reagan
George W Bush

 

[bayoubill]

The founders were Liberals.

lol... they were slave-holding old white guys... remember...?

They embraced change, also, though.

Starting a new country is a fairly progressive move.

and willfully fucking up a 236-year-old country is also a fairly progressive move...

 

[bayoubill]

Liberal Historical Leaders

Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
Abe Lincoln
Teddy Roosevelt
Woodrow Wilson
FDR
JFK
Martin Luther King

Conservative Historical Leaders

James Buchannon
Warren Harding
Calvin Coolidge
Joe McCarthy
George W Bush

lol... moonlight as a college professor, Norton...?

 

[Spoonman]

I would like to hear from both sides on this.

My definition of a modern day liberal is someone that wants a big intrusive controlling government, someone who wants wealth and income redistribution, someone who wants abortion on demand but does not want the 2nd amendment upheld, someone who wants to punish success and reward failure, someone who is comfortable being a slave to the government and wants an active thought and speech police.

that all depends, do you mean a liberal pre 1960's or post when drugs had taken a serious toll? The liberal platform changed greatly in the late 60's and early 70's. I'm a registered democrat, always considered myself a liberal. But the party has move too far left for me.

 

[Synthaholic]

lol... they were slave-holding old white guys... remember...?

They embraced change, also, though.

Starting a new country is a fairly progressive move.

and willfully fucking up a 236-year-old country is also a fairly progressive move...

Now, don't be like that!

 

[Synthaholic]

lol... they were slave-holding old white guys... remember...?

They embraced change, also, though.

Starting a new country is a fairly progressive move.

and willfully fucking up a 236-year-old country is also a fairly progressive move...

Here - this helps illustrate my point:

http://www.usmessageboard.com/6749927-post178.html

 

[rightwinger]

Liberal Historical Leaders

Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
Abe Lincoln
Teddy Roosevelt
Woodrow Wilson
FDR
JFK
Martin Luther King

Conservative Historical Leaders

James Buchannon
Warren Harding
Calvin Coolidge
Joe McCarthy
George W Bush

lol... moonlight as a college professor, Norton...?

Hmmmm....did I leave anyone out?

oh yea.......Jesus was a Liberal

 

[Redfish]

Liberal Historical Leaders

Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
Abe Lincoln
Teddy Roosevelt
Woodrow Wilson
FDR
JFK
Martin Luther King

Conservative Historical Leaders

James Buchannon
Grover Cleveland
Warren Harding
Calvin Coolidge
Joe McCarthy
Ron Reagan
George W Bush

JFK, MLK, and Jefferson were not liberals by today's definitions.

but lets explore beyond US presidents: Caesar, Attila, Mao, Castro, Kruschev, Hitler, Marx, Lenin, Putin, Thatcher, Blair, Genghis Khan, --- conservative or liberal as those terms are understood today?

 

[Redfish]

Liberal Historical Leaders

Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
Abe Lincoln
Teddy Roosevelt
Woodrow Wilson
FDR
JFK
Martin Luther King

Conservative Historical Leaders

James Buchannon
Warren Harding
Calvin Coolidge
Joe McCarthy
George W Bush

lol... moonlight as a college professor, Norton...?

Hmmmm....did I leave anyone out?

oh yea.......Jesus was a Liberal

Jesus was apolitical. His message was love and belief in God.

 

[Pogo]

lol... moonlight as a college professor, Norton...?

Hmmmm....did I leave anyone out?

oh yea.......Jesus was a Liberal

Jesus was apolitical. His message was love and belief in God.

Jesus was a communist. Acts 2: 44-47.

 

[boilermaker55]

I agree, just some right wing extremest getting their nut off.

I would like to hear from both sides on this.

My definition of a modern day liberal is someone that wants a big intrusive controlling government, someone who wants wealth and income redistribution, someone who wants abortion on demand but does not want the 2nd amendment upheld, someone who wants to punish success and reward failure, someone who is comfortable being a slave to the government and wants an active thought and speech police.

I read the title and thought,maybe, you wanted a serious answer. Then I read the drivel you posted and was dissuaded of that notion.

 

[Sallow]

lol... moonlight as a college professor, Norton...?

Hmmmm....did I leave anyone out?

oh yea.......Jesus was a Liberal

Jesus was apolitical. His message was love and belief in God.

You miss that whole whipping of the money changers bit?

Oh his notion that the wealthy were wicked?

Betcha did.

 

[rightwinger]

Liberal Historical Leaders

Thomas Jefferson
James Madison
Abe Lincoln
Teddy Roosevelt
Woodrow Wilson
FDR
JFK
Martin Luther King

Conservative Historical Leaders

James Buchannon
Grover Cleveland
Warren Harding
Calvin Coolidge
Joe McCarthy
Ron Reagan
George W Bush

JFK, MLK, and Jefferson were not liberals by today's definitions.

but lets explore beyond US presidents: Caesar, Attila, Mao, Castro, Kruschev, Hitler, Marx, Lenin, Putin, Thatcher, Blair, Genghis Khan, --- conservative or liberal as those terms are understood today?

By any stretch of imagination....JFK, MLK and Jefferson were the great liberals of their eras

You don't get any more liberal than "All men are created equal"


Attila, Mao, Castro, Hitler....are all liberals if you watch FoxNews

 

[Thunderbird]

Some liberals want to create a brave new World of Tomorrow. They want a perfect world where ethnicity, and religion, and the family disappear. They want a world where everyone happily submits to the (supposed) superior rationality of the liberal elite. They want a world where high-minded, sensitive, PBS-watching vegetarians speak Esperanto as they joyfully labor on wind farms and collective farms.

When people resist, when human nature rebels - liberals turn into authoritarians, dangerous supranational dictators ready to force the people into submission to this Utopian fantasy. Eventually cynicism prevails as the ugly reality of "Utopia" becomes apparent.

 

[Wry Catcher]

No U.S. President has ever been a totalitrarian in want or deed. Some have been incompetent and some a victim of their times but none acted with the malice of Hitler, et al, as the OP wants us to believe.

I have two serious complaints about this thread and many of the responses: 1) The OP is complete hyperbole and personal opinion with no basis in reality; and 2) to classify all liberals as members of any set is on it's face mendacious.

It's obvious the author of this thread is a troll and hates millions of Americans simply because they don't believe as he does. We can thank God that normal Americans reject his form of bigotry.

 

[rightwinger]

Some liberals want to create a brave new World of Tomorrow. They want a perfect world where ethnicity, and religion, and the family disappear. They want a world where everyone happily submits to the (supposed) superior rationality of the liberal elite. They want a world where high-minded, sensitive, PBS-watching vegetarians speak Esperanto as they joyfully labor on wind farms and collective farms.

When people resist, when human nature rebels - liberals turn into authoritarians, dangerous supranational dictators ready to force the people into submission to this Utopian fantasy. Eventually cynicism prevails as the ugly reality of "Utopia" becomes apparent.

John Galt.....Where are you?

 

[Redfish]

Hmmmm....did I leave anyone out?

oh yea.......Jesus was a Liberal

Jesus was apolitical. His message was love and belief in God.

You miss that whole whipping of the money changers bit?

Oh his notion that the wealthy were wicked?

Betcha did.

so you think Jesus wanted everyone to be poor? SOME wealthy and powerful were, and are, wicked. but generalizations are usuallly wrong. The money changers were wicked because they cheated people, not because of the service they performed.

 

[Redfish]

No U.S. President has ever been a totalitrarian in want or deed. Some have been incompetent and some a victim of their times but none acted with the malice of Hitler, et al, as the OP wants us to believe.

I have two serious complaints about this thread and many of the responses: 1) The OP is complete hyperbole and personal opinion with no basis in reality; and 2) to classify all liberals as members of any set is on it's face mendacious.

It's obvious the author of this thread is a troll and hates millions of Americans simply because they don't believe as he does. We can thank God that normal Americans reject his form of bigotry.

wrong, very wrong. I started this thread to allow others to provide their views on what modern day liberals stand for and want out of government. What I have gotten is bias and insults such are your post.

My opinions are my opinions and I have a right to state them, what I believe about liberals is based on the words and deeds of those who call themselves liberals over the last 40 years or so.

But since you claim to be above the rest of us with your high and mighty denigration of those that do not play the game by your rules, why don't you tell us what modern day liberals want. What are their issues and what do they want to change in the USA.

equality and reproductive rights are not acceptable answers because they mean nothing.

 

[rightwinger]

No U.S. President has ever been a totalitrarian in want or deed. Some have been incompetent and some a victim of their times but none acted with the malice of Hitler, et al, as the OP wants us to believe.

I have two serious complaints about this thread and many of the responses: 1) The OP is complete hyperbole and personal opinion with no basis in reality; and 2) to classify all liberals as members of any set is on it's face mendacious.

It's obvious the author of this thread is a troll and hates millions of Americans simply because they don't believe as he does. We can thank God that normal Americans reject his form of bigotry.

wrong, very wrong. I started this thread to allow others to provide their views on what modern day liberals stand for and want out of government. What I have gotten is bias and insults such are your post.

My opinions are my opinions and I have a right to state them, what I believe about liberals is based on the words and deeds of those who call themselves liberals over the last 40 years or so.

But since you claim to be above the rest of us with your high and mighty denigration of those that do not play the game by your rules, why don't you tell us what modern day liberals want. What are their issues and what do they want to change in the USA.

equality and reproductive rights are not acceptable answers because they mean nothing.

You start a thread based on insults, you get insults in return

Try posting unbiased OPs and you will get better replies