what is a liberal and which historical leaders were liberals?

[GuyPinestra]

do you really think corporations pay taxes?
Don't you realize that corporate taxes, REGARDLESS OF THEIR AMOUNT, are paid by that corporations CUSTOMERS?
Wake up and smell the bullshit, dude, there is NO SUCH THING as a 'corporate tax'!!

So? What are you arguing? That ceo's and stockholders are paupers and they have no more to give, and so prices can do nothing but rise in response to a tax hike? Cram that sense of entitlement, corporations have been skating by while their customers have been getting bled to death paying the taxes that corporations wont.

CEO's and stockholder's paupers? Don't be ridiculous.

But don't be so naive as to think that ANY 'corporate tax' is going to be paid by CEO's and shareholders.

It will be paid by the consumers, same as it ever was.

Think about it.

 

[bayoubill]

I would like to hear from both sides on this.

My definition of a modern day liberal is someone that wants a big intrusive controlling government, someone who wants wealth and income redistribution, someone who wants abortion on demand but does not want the 2nd amendment upheld, someone who wants to punish success and reward failure, someone who is comfortable being a slave to the government and wants an active thought and speech police.

Among other things, today's liberal is a shallow thinker, one who believes appearance matters more than substance... and thus will vote for a black person over a white person simply because the black person is black...

 

[bayoubill]

do you really think corporations pay taxes?
Don't you realize that corporate taxes, REGARDLESS OF THEIR AMOUNT, are paid by that corporations CUSTOMERS?
Wake up and smell the bullshit, dude, there is NO SUCH THING as a 'corporate tax'!!

So? What are you arguing? That ceo's and stockholders are paupers and they have no more to give, and so prices can do nothing but rise in response to a tax hike? Cram that sense of entitlement, corporations have been skating by while their customers have been getting bled to death paying the taxes that corporations wont.

You could not be more wrong. Conservatives are not opposed to infrastructure, conservatives do not want bridges to fall down. Smaller government does not mean neglecting infrastructure, it means doing it efficiently and effectively, cutting out the waste and corruption.

Not only are they against it, they are UNANIMOUSLY against it.
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Liberals are the ones that want to BE the government, they want to impose their views on everyone and punish those who dare to disagree. If your church or state wants gay marriage,fine I do not want to tell you how to live, but don't mandate that my church and my state condone gay marriage--------its called freedom.

What are you upset that someone isnt allowing you to do? gay marriage isnt about making random churches have to host weddings, its about the generic legal protections that married couples get- being on eachothers insurance, being recognized as family in the case of emergency, file joint tax returns etc, the kind of stuff that you are obviously entirely oblivious to because it doesnt impact you at all.

hey, dumb fuck...

in order to make a profit, the corporations must pass whatever their operating costs are, including taxes, on to the consumer...

corporate taxes amount to a hidden tax on you yourself that you pay every time you buy something produced by the corporations...


geez... why is it that basic economics is beyond the grasp of otherwise smart people...?

 

[rightwinger]

I would like to hear from both sides on this.

My definition of a modern day liberal is someone that wants a big intrusive controlling government, someone who wants wealth and income redistribution, someone who wants abortion on demand but does not want the 2nd amendment upheld, someone who wants to punish success and reward failure, someone who is comfortable being a slave to the government and wants an active thought and speech police.

Among other things, today's liberal is a shallow thinker, one who believes appearance matters more than substance... and thus will vote for a black person over a white person simply because the black person is black...

We vote because we get free stuff

We don't actually work or anything. We just show our Liberal Card and people give us stuff for free. I don't see why anyone would want to be Conservative

 

[bayoubill]

I would like to hear from both sides on this.

My definition of a modern day liberal is someone that wants a big intrusive controlling government, someone who wants wealth and income redistribution, someone who wants abortion on demand but does not want the 2nd amendment upheld, someone who wants to punish success and reward failure, someone who is comfortable being a slave to the government and wants an active thought and speech police.

Among other things, today's liberal is a shallow thinker, one who believes appearance matters more than substance... and thus will vote for a black person over a white person simply because the black person is black...

We vote because we get free stuff

We don't actually work or anything. We just show our Liberal Card and people give us stuff for free. I don't see why anyone would want to be Conservative

sigh... okay... you win... I'm tired... and, since everybody else is taking free stuff, I'll take free stuff too... no matter that it's gonna fuck things up for my grandchildren and great-grandchildren who don't visit me... ungrateful li'l twerps... they should drop by from time to time... no excuse that they're not even born yet...

 

[rightwinger]

Accomplishments of Liberals

1. Founded this country
2. Ended Slavery
3. Womens vote
4. Worker safety/40 hour workweek
5. Civil Rights
6. Environmental Protections
7. Gay Rights
8. Social Security/Medicare/Obamacare

Conservative accomplishments

1. Opposed all of these initiatives

 

[peach174]

do you really think corporations pay taxes?
Don't you realize that corporate taxes, REGARDLESS OF THEIR AMOUNT, are paid by that corporations CUSTOMERS?
Wake up and smell the bullshit, dude, there is NO SUCH THING as a 'corporate tax'!!

So? What are you arguing? That ceo's and stockholders are paupers and they have no more to give, and so prices can do nothing but rise in response to a tax hike? Cram that sense of entitlement, corporations have been skating by while their customers have been getting bled to death paying the taxes that corporations wont.

Not only are they against it, they are UNANIMOUSLY against it.
American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Liberals are the ones that want to BE the government, they want to impose their views on everyone and punish those who dare to disagree. If your church or state wants gay marriage,fine I do not want to tell you how to live, but don't mandate that my church and my state condone gay marriage--------its called freedom.

What are you upset that someone isnt allowing you to do? gay marriage isnt about making random churches have to host weddings, its about the generic legal protections that married couples get- being on eachothers insurance, being recognized as family in the case of emergency, file joint tax returns etc, the kind of stuff that you are obviously entirely oblivious to because it doesnt impact you at all.

hey, dumb fuck...

in order to make a profit, the corporations must pass whatever their operating costs are, including taxes, on to the consumer...

corporate taxes amount to a hidden tax on you yourself that you pay every time you buy something produced by the corporations...


geez... why is it that basic economics is beyond the grasp of otherwise smart people...?

Libs can not get it through their heads, that there is a difference between Corp tax that consumers pay and dividend tax that individual stock holders pay.
I don't understand it either.

 

[bayoubill]

Accomplishments of Liberals

1. Founded this country
2. Ended Slavery
3. Womens vote
4. Worker safety/40 hour workweek
5. Civil Rights
6. Environmental Protections
7. Gay Rights
8. Social Security/Medicare/Obamacare

Conservative accomplishments

1. Opposed all of these initiatives

spurious, as usual...

 

[rightwinger]

Accomplishments of Liberals

1. Founded this country
2. Ended Slavery
3. Womens vote
4. Worker safety/40 hour workweek
5. Civil Rights
6. Environmental Protections
7. Gay Rights
8. Social Security/Medicare/Obamacare

Conservative accomplishments

1. Opposed all of these initiatives

spurious, as usual...

Throughout the glorious history of our great nation, Liberals have addressed the ills of our society while Conservatives have deadfastly opposed them

Conservatives being on the wrong side of history IS our History

 

[bayoubill]

Accomplishments of Liberals

1. Founded this country
2. Ended Slavery
3. Womens vote
4. Worker safety/40 hour workweek
5. Civil Rights
6. Environmental Protections
7. Gay Rights
8. Social Security/Medicare/Obamacare

Conservative accomplishments

1. Opposed all of these initiatives

spurious, as usual...

Throughout the glorious history of our great nation, Liberals have addressed the ills of our society while Conservatives have deadfastly opposed them

Conservatives being on the wrong side of history IS our History

when using the terms "liberal" and "conservative", historical context is everything...

 

[peach174]

Accomplishments of Liberals

1. Founded this country
2. Ended Slavery
3. Womens vote
4. Worker safety/40 hour workweek
5. Civil Rights
6. Environmental Protections
7. Gay Rights
8. Social Security/Medicare/Obamacare

Conservative accomplishments

1. Opposed all of these initiatives

You are wrong on so may things you listed.
Where do you get this incorrect info?
It certainly is not our history.

Christians founded this country.
Christian's were against slavery. A Republican President ended slavery.
Womens votes were both cons, mods and libs who marched for the right to vote
You are correct that unions did get safety for workers. Unions are good for the private sector but not for the government sector.
Civil rights was also a combination of cons and libs.
EPA Dept. was created by a republican
You are correct about gay rights
Conservatives were correct to oppose, Medicare and Obama care because they knew back then as they know now, that that they are unsustainable.
Social Security was a good thing, until Dems started taking the surplus to pay for other Government social programs. They were never suppose to touch that money. Had they left it alone, there would be plenty to pay out for the baby boomers and future generations.

 

[rightwinger]

Accomplishments of Liberals

1. Founded this country
2. Ended Slavery
3. Womens vote
4. Worker safety/40 hour workweek
5. Civil Rights
6. Environmental Protections
7. Gay Rights
8. Social Security/Medicare/Obamacare

Conservative accomplishments

1. Opposed all of these initiatives

You are wrong on so may things you listed.
Where do you get this incorrect info?
It certainly is not our history.

Christians founded this country.
Christian's were against slavery. A Republican President ended slavery.
Womens votes were both cons, mods and libs who marched for the right to vote
You are correct that unions did get safety for workers. Unions are good for the private sector but not for the government sector.
Civil rights was also a combination of cons and libs.
EPA Dept. was created by a republican
You are correct about gay rights
Conservatives were correct to oppose, Medicare and Obama care because they knew back then as they know now, that that they are unsustainable.
Social Security was a good thing, until Dems started taking the surplus to pay for other Government social programs. They were never suppose to touch that money. Had they left it alone, there would be plenty to pay out for the baby boomers and future generations.

You are all over the place and lack an understanding of liberal and conservative principles. Please note that in history, Republicans have not always been conservative and Democrats have not always been liberal

Christians have lined up on both sides. There was strong Christian support of the biblical aspects of slavery in the southern states. Christians in the north were strong abolutionists. Many Christians also opposed womens rights as part of gods will.

 

[rightwinger]

spurious, as usual...

Throughout the glorious history of our great nation, Liberals have addressed the ills of our society while Conservatives have deadfastly opposed them

Conservatives being on the wrong side of history IS our History

when using the terms "liberal" and "conservative", historical context is everything...

A very good point

Each generation faces its own challenges. Those challenges are faced from either a liberal or conservative philosophy. Liberals seek a fundamental change in the way we address life while conservatives cling to the status quo

Our founding fathers are a good example. They were the ultimate liberals of their era supporting the rights of the individual over the power of the chosen few. They stood up against the concept of monarchy and the royal birthright of the crown.
Conservatives of the era were Torries and supported the crown

 

[bayoubill]

When, 200 years hence, Gibbons' literary heir writes about the decline and fall of the American Republic, there will be a picture of Norton in the frontispiece... with the caption, "It's all his fault"...

 

[bayoubill]

Throughout the glorious history of our great nation, Liberals have addressed the ills of our society while Conservatives have deadfastly opposed them

Conservatives being on the wrong side of history IS our History

when using the terms "liberal" and "conservative", historical context is everything...

A very good point

Each generation faces its own challenges. Those challenges are faced from either a liberal or conservative philosophy. Liberals seek a fundamental change in the way we address life while conservatives cling to the status quo

Our founding fathers are a good example. They were the ultimate liberals of their era supporting the rights of the individual over the power of the chosen few. They stood up against the concept of monarchy and the royal birthright of the crown.
Conservatives of the era were Torries and supported the crown

holy shit, Norton... you're starting to say things I can sorta agree with...

 

[peach174]

Accomplishments of Liberals

1. Founded this country
2. Ended Slavery
3. Womens vote
4. Worker safety/40 hour workweek
5. Civil Rights
6. Environmental Protections
7. Gay Rights
8. Social Security/Medicare/Obamacare

Conservative accomplishments

1. Opposed all of these initiatives

You are wrong on so may things you listed.
Where do you get this incorrect info?
It certainly is not our history.

Christians founded this country.
Christian's were against slavery. A Republican President ended slavery.
Womens votes were both cons, mods and libs who marched for the right to vote
You are correct that unions did get safety for workers. Unions are good for the private sector but not for the government sector.
Civil rights was also a combination of cons and libs.
EPA Dept. was created by a republican
You are correct about gay rights
Conservatives were correct to oppose, Medicare and Obama care because they knew back then as they know now, that that they are unsustainable.
Social Security was a good thing, until Dems started taking the surplus to pay for other Government social programs. They were never suppose to touch that money. Had they left it alone, there would be plenty to pay out for the baby boomers and future generations.

You are all over the place and lack an understanding of liberal and conservative principles. Please note that in history, Republicans have not always been conservative and Democrats have not always been liberal

Christians have lined up on both sides. There was strong Christian support of the biblical aspects of slavery in the southern states. Christians in the north were strong abolutionists. Many Christians also opposed womens rights as part of gods will.

You are the one who stated that Libs were the only ones who accomplished the things you listed.
I included Cons, Libs and Mods.

 

[peach174]

Throughout the glorious history of our great nation, Liberals have addressed the ills of our society while Conservatives have deadfastly opposed them

Conservatives being on the wrong side of history IS our History

when using the terms "liberal" and "conservative", historical context is everything...

A very good point

Each generation faces its own challenges. Those challenges are faced from either a liberal or conservative philosophy. Liberals seek a fundamental change in the way we address life while conservatives cling to the status quo

Our founding fathers are a good example. They were the ultimate liberals of their era supporting the rights of the individual over the power of the chosen few. They stood up against the concept of monarchy and the royal birthright of the crown.
Conservatives of the era were Torries and supported the crown

It's to bad that the Libs of today, have moved toward the collective rather than the individual rights.

 

[bayoubill]

when using the terms "liberal" and "conservative", historical context is everything...

A very good point

Each generation faces its own challenges. Those challenges are faced from either a liberal or conservative philosophy. Liberals seek a fundamental change in the way we address life while conservatives cling to the status quo

Our founding fathers are a good example. They were the ultimate liberals of their era supporting the rights of the individual over the power of the chosen few. They stood up against the concept of monarchy and the royal birthright of the crown.
Conservatives of the era were Torries and supported the crown

It's to bad that the Libs of today, have moved toward the collective rather than the individual rights.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L1Pmg3BxCCM]Sheep - YouTube[/ame]

 

[JakeStarkey]

when using the terms "liberal" and "conservative", historical context is everything...

A very good point

Each generation faces its own challenges. Those challenges are faced from either a liberal or conservative philosophy. Liberals seek a fundamental change in the way we address life while conservatives cling to the status quo

Our founding fathers are a good example. They were the ultimate liberals of their era supporting the rights of the individual over the power of the chosen few. They stood up against the concept of monarchy and the royal birthright of the crown.
Conservatives of the era were Torries and supported the crown

It's to bad that the Libs of today, have moved toward the collective rather than the individual rights.

In fact most folks on both conservative and liberal wings are progressives (collectivists, a poorer term) who believe that modern society requires scientific, professional management in both government and private sectors to better the community for all.

 

[rightwinger]

when using the terms "liberal" and "conservative", historical context is everything...

A very good point

Each generation faces its own challenges. Those challenges are faced from either a liberal or conservative philosophy. Liberals seek a fundamental change in the way we address life while conservatives cling to the status quo

Our founding fathers are a good example. They were the ultimate liberals of their era supporting the rights of the individual over the power of the chosen few. They stood up against the concept of monarchy and the royal birthright of the crown.
Conservatives of the era were Torries and supported the crown

It's to bad that the Libs of today, have moved toward the collective rather than the individual rights.

Is gay marriage a collective or individual right?