what is a liberal and which historical leaders were liberals?

[Old Rocks]

"Liberal" was originally what we call libertarian today. The progressives obfuscated the term decades ago.

OK, but lets stick to today and what the term means now. the history lesson was accurate, but lets talk about what they are today.

I am a blue collar liberal. Don't tell me about your ideas or ideology, show me where the policies you espouse were put into effect.

Thus far, I see where you fools continue to scream for tax cuts for the wealthy, claiming that will jumpstart the economy. So, what are the facts. In 1993, Clinton raised the taxes by a little bit on the very wealthy. And we had the strongest boom in our nations history. Bush lowered the taxes in 2003. In 2008, the economy damn near went into the Second Great Republican Depression.

Guns are not supposed to kill anyone, yet the body count of the crazies with assault weopons just keeps going up. But your answer is to make these weapons of war even more available to the crazies.

In fact, I see the "Conservatives" on this board constantly quoting the Second Amendment as proof they have the right to carry any weapon they want, yet the Suppreme Court has said clearly that the government has the right to limit the distribution and sale of very dangerous weapons. And I have yet to see the government trying to take any of the guns that I have.

You guys are constantly screaming about 'socialism' in health care. Yet, National Parks, the military, the Forest Service, all police forces, all fire departments, and virtually all the water and sewage deptments of our cities are socialistic organizations. You see, we, like all the modern democracies have a mixed economic system. Both socialistic and capitalistic. Through experiments through the years, we have found many places where one works better than the other, many places where only a mix seems to yield good results. Right now, our capitalistic system in health care sucks when compared to the what the other democratic nations have. We pay the most for the worst results among the wealthy nations.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVgOl3cETb4]"We're Number 37" - Paul Hipp - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Old Rocks]

Also, bravado, hubris and deluded sense of importance seem to be Liberal traits

Donald Trump, Alan Keyes, Alan West, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, Sean Hannity, Rush Limblob, Bill O'Reilly, Greg Gutfeld, Dick Armey, The Dick Cheney, Neil Boortz, Ann Coulter, Alex Jones, Glenn Beck and Finger-boy are liberals?

Ya just never know.

Frankie boy?

 

[Londoner]

First, this reads like rhetoric that stems from movement conservatism, which targets less educated people with a narrative of revanchism.

What is revanchism? In the most simple terms Revanchism is the belief that the country has been stolen by "outside" forces, e.g., forces which aim to destroy the country and its sacred traditions, starting with the Constitution.

Revanchist ideologies are typically imposed by the elite on the poor or less educated. Here is how it works. People with money capture government and media. FYI: In the old days instead of capturing media they captured the church, like when the corrupt Roman Government "captured" Christianity in order to rule over the poor. Or, take a modern example, like when big money captured the Republican Party (starting in the late 50s) and then captured media (with the help of the think tank movement followed by the creation of a major broadcast network and talk radio).

Once these concentrated sources of power have been captured, the elite has the infrastructure to convince unwitting people that the country has been stolen by an external contagion - and that everything wrong in their lives has been caused by that contagion. Movement Conservatism uses this strategy when they convince people that the country has been stolen by "anti-Americans" who have infiltrated our institutional fabric (e.g., consider the battle cry from McCarthyism to Limbaugh: Liberals have infiltrated the government, media, education and entertainment). In response to this infiltration, Movement Conservatism tells us that we must expunge these "anti-Americans" by "taking our country back!" [This is classic Revanchism]

By getting rid of the anti-American contagion, Movement Conservatism will have removed the opposition to their power, which power is used exclusively to butter the bread of the concentrated wealth which runs the Movement.

Hitler used Revanchism when he claimed that the Real Germany had been infiltrated by Jews. Indeed, Hitler claimed that Weimar Germany had succumbed to Liberal Tolerance (which spread from the energies that fueled the French Revolution). He said that Liberalism lead to the over-assimilation of Jews in politics, entertainment and banking. He convinced people that the Jews were slowly destroying Germany's sacred traditions, important documents, religion and language.

Same thing in the USA whereby the elite have convinced the prols that Liberals have infiltrated government and media, and they (the liberals) are using these institutions to destroy the Real America (starting with the Constitution).

What's interesting is that people don't see the ruse, which is this: there are no Liberals any more. There is no Labor party. Corporate money funds elections and staffs government - and they launch a primary challenge against any government agent who doesn't vote in the interest of concentrated wealth. John Galt is no longer a persecuted minority. He is wealthier than ever. Even worse: he sold the American worker down river. He now gets his products made in Communist China with sweatshop labor.

Here is something the OP may not know. His trusted party has grown the intrusiveness of government more than any Liberal could ever dream. Indeed, the Reagan War on Drugs and the Bush War on Terror created powerful federal agencies which have unobstructed power over the states.

The OP is encouraged to read this (link below) so he understands how his party uses National Security to grow the intrusiveness of Government. Perhaps he will realize that it's just the tip of an iceberg, and that he has been terribly lied to. A hidden world, growing beyond control | washingtonpost.com

Then the OP should research how much money Reagan and Bush actually spent, and the damage they each did to the Constitution. The OP might also study the Patriot Act. One hopes that he will some day free himself from the Conservative Media Bubble so that he can get information from more rigorous, peer reviewed sources.

Movement Conservatism has created an army of revanchists who must take their country back, but they have been lied to about who actually runs the country. They are being tricked into removing all obstacles to the monied interests which run the country and own media.

Read your Orwell, specifically the part about Emmanuel Goldstein. (psst: you're world has been populated by mythological demons so that you don't see the real concentrated power that runs the country)

 

[GuyPinestra]

As long as the powers that be keep us divided and "blaming the other guy" we're ALL fucked.

The 2 party duopoly that controls this shit doesn't give a fuck if it's a Republican or a Democrat in charge, as long as they're on the payroll of the REAL power, global financial interests.

This is why we're fucked, folks.

90% of us think one party or the other has all the answers when it's BOTH parties blowing smoke up our collective asses.

 

[billyerock1991]

I would like to hear from both sides on this.

My definition of a modern day liberal is someone that wants a big intrusive controlling government, someone who wants wealth and income redistribution, someone who wants abortion on demand but does not want the 2nd amendment upheld, someone who wants to punish success and reward failure, someone who is comfortable being a slave to the government and wants an active thought and speech police.

I'm a liberal ... all you innuendoes are just that ... what you've been told to believe by some right wing whack job ... your intent is not to understand what we are about, your intent is to ridicule and insult ...

 

[Votto]

I would like to hear from both sides on this.

My definition of a modern day liberal is someone that wants a big intrusive controlling government, someone who wants wealth and income redistribution, someone who wants abortion on demand but does not want the 2nd amendment upheld, someone who wants to punish success and reward failure, someone who is comfortable being a slave to the government and wants an active thought and speech police.

George Washington, Benjamin Franklin, James Madison, and pretty much that whole bunch. Your definition is wrong. I'm a 'modern day Liberal', I don't wont an 'intrusive government', most of your politicians; Liberal or conservative favors 'wealth and income redistribution', I am in favor of the Bill of Rights, I think that a women has a right to choose, I don't want to 'punish success and reward failure', I don't want to be a slave to anyone or anything, I'm a strong advocate of the First Amendment, where do you people come up with this shit? Your narrative on Liberals is literally pretty crazy sounding.

You don't want equality, you want more money. That is why the modern liberal is at war with future generations. The modern liberal steals from future generations each and every day. Then they dumb down the schools and then try to kill them off before being born because they are economically "inconvenient".

The irony here is, the idiots you vote for are increasing your taxes on one end, and inflating the currency on the other end. You lose more money every day from these people than you do from stealing from future generations. That is why the term libtard is the most accurate. Future generations are our greatest resource and we need them to help pay for all the shit liberals throw at us. Instead, they just systematically kill them all off.

Of course, we have seen all this before. Hitler was the most progressive leader of his day soaking the upper 4% with extremely high taxes and lavishing those that he needed to maintain power with their money. He also stole from conquered countries and from Jews. After all, the progressive mantra is predicated on theft of some kind. Hitler then punished Jews by killing them because they seemed to have all the wealth. I guess he thought that would create more wealth for everyone else, much like the way abortionists rationalize killing the unborn as a means of reducing the burden on the nanny state and reducing the numbers in jail is suppose to do. LOL.

 

[Votto]

As long as the powers that be keep us divided and "blaming the other guy" we're ALL fucked.

The 2 party duopoly that controls this shit doesn't give a fuck if it's a Republican or a Democrat in charge, as long as they're on the payroll of the REAL power, global financial interests.

This is why we're fucked, folks.

90% of us think one party or the other has all the answers when it's BOTH parties blowing smoke up our collective asses.

Yes, but people are stupid.

 

[Pogo]

Also, bravado, hubris and deluded sense of importance seem to be Liberal traits

Donald Trump, Alan Keyes, Alan West, Newt Gingrich, Sarah Palin, Sean Hannity, Rush Limblob, Bill O'Reilly, Greg Gutfeld, Dick Armey, The Dick Cheney, Neil Boortz, Ann Coulter, Alex Jones, Glenn Beck and Finger-boy are liberals?

Ya just never know.

Frankie boy?

Frank Rizzo?
I actually thought of him first but didn't think many would get it.

 

[JakeStarkey]

Yah, Roo and the other libers think of themselves as wannabee Rizzos. They don't understand that a made man in the Mafia is the closet thing to a libertarian as one is going to get in America.

 

[Pogo]

As long as the powers that be keep us divided and "blaming the other guy" we're ALL fucked.

The 2 party duopoly that controls this shit doesn't give a fuck if it's a Republican or a Democrat in charge, as long as they're on the payroll of the REAL power, global financial interests.

This is why we're fucked, folks.

90% of us think one party or the other has all the answers when it's BOTH parties blowing smoke up our collective asses.

That's it in a nutshell right there.

 

[Pogo]

As long as the powers that be keep us divided and "blaming the other guy" we're ALL fucked.

The 2 party duopoly that controls this shit doesn't give a fuck if it's a Republican or a Democrat in charge, as long as they're on the payroll of the REAL power, global financial interests.

This is why we're fucked, folks.

90% of us think one party or the other has all the answers when it's BOTH parties blowing smoke up our collective asses.

Yes, but people are stupid.

How's the fence feel? Because one post before, you just said: "The modern liberal steals from future generations each and every day" as if you never heard of Ronald Reagan.

Which way you wanna go here? Pick a side. Or maybe you had a complete philosophical sea change in five minutes...

 

[bripat9643]

Of course, the opposite is the actual fact of the matter. Liberals are responsible for every social problem that is humanely solvable.

Fingerboy....


Care to name a single contribution conservatives have made to this country?

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Now name one contribution liberals have made to this country.

 

[bripat9643]

In fact most folks on both conservative and liberal wings are progressives (collectivists, a poorer term) who believe that modern society requires scientific, professional management in both government and private sectors to better the community for all.

Wrong, Fakey, conservatives don't believe that. But you do. That's just one more indication that you aren't a conservative. You're a left-wing troll.

Yes, they do, but you, as a libertarian, do not. The national vice laws of the early 20th century were progressive conservative right wing federal laws to change behavior through limitation and punishment. So was Prohibition. So is the drug war.

This is why you can never, ever carry your case because you refuse traditional definitions and encyclopedias. You are a loser.

The term "progressive conservative" is an oxymoron. Prohibition was the result of a progressive movement, and it was a total disaster, just like every other program pushed by progressives. If you think the drug war is a conservative idea, please name some Democrats who have come out in favor of legalizing drugs.

 

[rightwinger]

Of course, the opposite is the actual fact of the matter. Liberals are responsible for every social problem that is humanely solvable.

Fingerboy....


Care to name a single contribution conservatives have made to this country?

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Now name one contribution liberals have made to this country.

Nice try Fingerboy.....but FAIL

Our Constitution was written by noted LIBERAL of his day.......James Madison


"We the People"....... You didn't get more liberal than that in the 18th century. Can you imagine a country run by the people? What a truly liberal idea

 

[Google]

Fingerboy....


Care to name a single contribution conservatives have made to this country?

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Now name one contribution liberals have made to this country.

Nice try Fingerboy.....but FAIL

Our Constitution was written by noted LIBERAL of his day.......James Madison


"We the People"....... You didn't get more liberal than that in the 18th century. Can you imagine a country run by the people? What a truly liberal idea

However you'd like to spin it. Would James Madison, having time traveled to present day, consider himself liberal?

 

[rightwinger]

The Constitution and the Bill of Rights.

Now name one contribution liberals have made to this country.

Nice try Fingerboy.....but FAIL

Our Constitution was written by noted LIBERAL of his day.......James Madison


"We the People"....... You didn't get more liberal than that in the 18th century. Can you imagine a country run by the people? What a truly liberal idea

However you'd like to spin it. Would James Madison, having time traveled to present day, consider himself liberal?

As a liberal, Madison would have some catching up to do. A black man as president, women voting, equal rights for everyone

But yes, Mr Madison would quickly adapt to life as a modern liberal

 

[Google]

Nice try Fingerboy.....but FAIL

Our Constitution was written by noted LIBERAL of his day.......James Madison


"We the People"....... You didn't get more liberal than that in the 18th century. Can you imagine a country run by the people? What a truly liberal idea

However you'd like to spin it. Would James Madison, having time traveled to present day, consider himself liberal?

As a liberal, Madison would have some catching up to do. A black man as president, women voting, equal rights for everyone

But yes, Mr Madison would quickly adapt to life as a modern liberal

Whatever makes you feel good I suppose. I know the role that the Republican party had in ensuring women suffrage and black civil rights, but you wrap yourself up in your delusion and credit your own political leanings for these things--and impart your world view on historical figures.

 

[Google]

Here is another liberal of the 60's that stood in the way of civil rights, was a leader in the KKK--but remained a beloved Democrat all the way up until the day he withered away and died. Really enlightened liberal...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PnO6ai0Ktro]Senator Robert Byrd Says White ******* - YouTube[/ame]

How about Al Gore Sr.? Another example of leftist hypocrisy. I'm sure you were one of the mindless drones blabbing on and on about Prescott Bush and Nazi connections, but Gore's father voting against and leading the filibuster to stop the Civil Rights Act--that is not relevant. Gore went before the NAACP and LIED about his father's support of the Civil Rights Act, and not one person in the media or NAACP called him on it. Essentially he said "you are all ignorant morons", and they cheered.

 

[rightwinger]

However you'd like to spin it. Would James Madison, having time traveled to present day, consider himself liberal?

As a liberal, Madison would have some catching up to do. A black man as president, women voting, equal rights for everyone

But yes, Mr Madison would quickly adapt to life as a modern liberal

Whatever makes you feel good I suppose. I know the role that the Republican party had in ensuring women suffrage and black civil rights, but you wrap yourself up in your delusion and credit your own political leanings for these things--and impart your world view on historical figures.

Are you incapable of understanding what a liberal Republican is?

They used to be a large constituency of the party until they were driven out by the radicals

 

[Google]

As a liberal, Madison would have some catching up to do. A black man as president, women voting, equal rights for everyone

But yes, Mr Madison would quickly adapt to life as a modern liberal

Whatever makes you feel good I suppose. I know the role that the Republican party had in ensuring women suffrage and black civil rights, but you wrap yourself up in your delusion and credit your own political leanings for these things--and impart your world view on historical figures.

Are you incapable of understanding what a liberal Republican is?

They used to be a large constituency of the party until they were driven out by the radicals

Slap that label on it. Those Republicans that supported, and were the reason for the passage of the Civil Rights Act, they are conservatives by standards then and now.

But you believe conservatives like myself are against civil rights, racist, evil scum. You equate the word conservative to all these things, because you are intellectually shallow and honestly hateful.