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Agreed. His constant harping about Christianity shows deep down he knows it’s true.It seems yours is a personal struggle from within. I will pray for you, regardless of whether or not that is the case.
So government policy directly affecting my life is equivalent to personal beliefs?Agreed. His constant harping about Christianity shows deep down he knows it’s true.It seems yours is a personal struggle from within. I will pray for you, regardless of whether or not that is the case.
" His constant harping about Christianity shows deep down he knows it’s true.
Oh really? Then, by your own goofy unlogic, you know climate change theories and evolutionary theory are true. Glad that's settled! No more goofy denier threads from you!
So government policy directly affecting my life is equivalent to personal beliefs?Agreed. His constant harping about Christianity shows deep down he knows it’s true.It seems yours is a personal struggle from within. I will pray for you, regardless of whether or not that is the case.
" His constant harping about Christianity shows deep down he knows it’s true.
Oh really? Then, by your own goofy unlogic, you know climate change theories and evolutionary theory are true. Glad that's settled! No more goofy denier threads from you!
Your desperate spin is not funny, it is also a sign you too know Christianity is the one true religion.
Yes you did. There is no link to government regulations and personal religious beliefs, Dufus.So government policy directly affecting my life is equivalent to personal beliefs?Agreed. His constant harping about Christianity shows deep down he knows it’s true.It seems yours is a personal struggle from within. I will pray for you, regardless of whether or not that is the case.
" His constant harping about Christianity shows deep down he knows it’s true.
Oh really? Then, by your own goofy unlogic, you know climate change theories and evolutionary theory are true. Glad that's settled! No more goofy denier threads from you!
Your desperate spin is not funny, it is also a sign you too know Christianity is the one true religion.
"So government policy directly affecting my life is equivalent to personal beliefs?"
I didn't say or imply that, nor is it germane to my point. You're not very smart guy, Mr. Carbon Poetry.
Yes you did. There is no link to government regulations and personal religious beliefs, Dufus.So government policy directly affecting my life is equivalent to personal beliefs?Agreed. His constant harping about Christianity shows deep down he knows it’s true.It seems yours is a personal struggle from within. I will pray for you, regardless of whether or not that is the case.
" His constant harping about Christianity shows deep down he knows it’s true.
Oh really? Then, by your own goofy unlogic, you know climate change theories and evolutionary theory are true. Glad that's settled! No more goofy denier threads from you!
Your desperate spin is not funny, it is also a sign you too know Christianity is the one true religion.
"So government policy directly affecting my life is equivalent to personal beliefs?"
I didn't say or imply that, nor is it germane to my point. You're not very smart guy, Mr. Carbon Poetry.
Nothing. But, why don't they just say that. Why do so many theists have to pretend that they are actually accomplishing something with prayer? See, that is my problem. If the purpose is "It makes me feel better", okay. But, just say that. Don't try to pretend that prayer actually serves a demonstrable function, or has any actual effect on the events about which one is praying.It makes people feel better
What's your issue with it?
Unless you sit on your ass praying for things to be provided to you...that's just being lazy
Climate change is evolutionary theory? You on drugs again?Yes you did. There is no link to government regulations and personal religious beliefs, Dufus.So government policy directly affecting my life is equivalent to personal beliefs?Agreed. His constant harping about Christianity shows deep down he knows it’s true.
" His constant harping about Christianity shows deep down he knows it’s true.
Oh really? Then, by your own goofy unlogic, you know climate change theories and evolutionary theory are true. Glad that's settled! No more goofy denier threads from you!
Your desperate spin is not funny, it is also a sign you too know Christianity is the one true religion.
"So government policy directly affecting my life is equivalent to personal beliefs?"
I didn't say or imply that, nor is it germane to my point. You're not very smart guy, Mr. Carbon Poetry.
No I didn't, ya weirdo. And for you to label evolutionary theory as "government policy affecting my life" is retarded. I tried to think of a better word, but no other words fit more well than "retarded'.
Climate change is evolutionary theory? You on drugs again?Yes you did. There is no link to government regulations and personal religious beliefs, Dufus.So government policy directly affecting my life is equivalent to personal beliefs?" His constant harping about Christianity shows deep down he knows it’s true.
Oh really? Then, by your own goofy unlogic, you know climate change theories and evolutionary theory are true. Glad that's settled! No more goofy denier threads from you!
Your desperate spin is not funny, it is also a sign you too know Christianity is the one true religion.
"So government policy directly affecting my life is equivalent to personal beliefs?"
I didn't say or imply that, nor is it germane to my point. You're not very smart guy, Mr. Carbon Poetry.
No I didn't, ya weirdo. And for you to label evolutionary theory as "government policy affecting my life" is retarded. I tried to think of a better word, but no other words fit more well than "retarded'.
Now Dufus claims there are no government regulations based upon the environment.Climate change is evolutionary theory? You on drugs again?Yes you did. There is no link to government regulations and personal religious beliefs, Dufus.So government policy directly affecting my life is equivalent to personal beliefs?
Your desperate spin is not funny, it is also a sign you too know Christianity is the one true religion.
"So government policy directly affecting my life is equivalent to personal beliefs?"
I didn't say or imply that, nor is it germane to my point. You're not very smart guy, Mr. Carbon Poetry.
No I didn't, ya weirdo. And for you to label evolutionary theory as "government policy affecting my life" is retarded. I tried to think of a better word, but no other words fit more well than "retarded'.
I mentioned both... you know, in the post you directly responded to. You CAN read, I imagine.
and anyway, denying the truth of climate theories in no way speaks to any government policy,. So not only are you being very dumb, you're also being quite the little liar.
Because you know they are accomplishing many things.Nothing. But, why don't they just say that. Why do so many theists have to pretend that they are actually accomplishing something with prayer? See, that is my problem. If the purpose is "It makes me feel better", okay. But, just say that. Don't try to pretend that prayer actually serves a demonstrable function, or has any actual effect on the events about which one is praying.It makes people feel better
What's your issue with it?
Unless you sit on your ass praying for things to be provided to you...that's just being lazy
Now Dufus claims there are no government regulations based upon the environment.Climate change is evolutionary theory? You on drugs again?Yes you did. There is no link to government regulations and personal religious beliefs, Dufus."So government policy directly affecting my life is equivalent to personal beliefs?"
I didn't say or imply that, nor is it germane to my point. You're not very smart guy, Mr. Carbon Poetry.
No I didn't, ya weirdo. And for you to label evolutionary theory as "government policy affecting my life" is retarded. I tried to think of a better word, but no other words fit more well than "retarded'.
I mentioned both... you know, in the post you directly responded to. You CAN read, I imagine.
and anyway, denying the truth of climate theories in no way speaks to any government policy,. So not only are you being very dumb, you're also being quite the little liar.
Obviously on drugs.
What? What are they accomplishing? I notice you haven't answered the question in my OP. All you've done is troll. Why is this? Because you know that it is a lie when you claim prayers accomplish anything.Because you know they are accomplishing many things.Nothing. But, why don't they just say that. Why do so many theists have to pretend that they are actually accomplishing something with prayer? See, that is my problem. If the purpose is "It makes me feel better", okay. But, just say that. Don't try to pretend that prayer actually serves a demonstrable function, or has any actual effect on the events about which one is praying.It makes people feel better
What's your issue with it?
Unless you sit on your ass praying for things to be provided to you...that's just being lazy
That’s what drives you crazy. You want to join in but your afraid to.
Because you know they are accomplishing many things.Nothing. But, why don't they just say that. Why do so many theists have to pretend that they are actually accomplishing something with prayer? See, that is my problem. If the purpose is "It makes me feel better", okay. But, just say that. Don't try to pretend that prayer actually serves a demonstrable function, or has any actual effect on the events about which one is praying.It makes people feel better
What's your issue with it?
Unless you sit on your ass praying for things to be provided to you...that's just being lazy
That’s what drives you crazy. You want to join in but your afraid to.
There are some that believe it does, so, I'm of the thought anything is possible...Nothing. But, why don't they just say that. Why do so many theists have to pretend that they are actually accomplishing something with prayer? See, that is my problem. If the purpose is "It makes me feel better", okay. But, just say that. Don't try to pretend that prayer actually serves a demonstrable function, or has any actual effect on the events about which one is praying.It makes people feel better
What's your issue with it?
Unless you sit on your ass praying for things to be provided to you...that's just being lazy
And, it's interesting that you mention "praying for things to be provided for you". That is another problem I have with prayer; it denies people the ability to be proud of their accomplishments. I mean, I need a job. So, I go to my parishioners, and they all "pray over me" that I get a job. Then I go out, put in applications, do job interviews, impress potential employers, and get a job. Yay, me! Right? WRONG!!! No, I, and all my parishioners "give God the glory":, and pretend that their stupid prayer was the reason I found a job. REALLY?!?!?
You see, if you want to pray because it "makes people feel better", that's great. You do that. But please don't pretend that it actually accomplishes something, and please don't give prayer the credit for my hard fucking work!
So, which is it? Prayer actually accomplishes something, or prayer just makes you feel better? Because, if it is the former, I am still waiting for someone to tell me what that is. If it is the latter, I stand by my previous statement.There are some that believe it does, so, I'm of the thought anything is possible...Nothing. But, why don't they just say that. Why do so many theists have to pretend that they are actually accomplishing something with prayer? See, that is my problem. If the purpose is "It makes me feel better", okay. But, just say that. Don't try to pretend that prayer actually serves a demonstrable function, or has any actual effect on the events about which one is praying.It makes people feel better
What's your issue with it?
Unless you sit on your ass praying for things to be provided to you...that's just being lazy
And, it's interesting that you mention "praying for things to be provided for you". That is another problem I have with prayer; it denies people the ability to be proud of their accomplishments. I mean, I need a job. So, I go to my parishioners, and they all "pray over me" that I get a job. Then I go out, put in applications, do job interviews, impress potential employers, and get a job. Yay, me! Right? WRONG!!! No, I, and all my parishioners "give God the glory":, and pretend that their stupid prayer was the reason I found a job. REALLY?!?!?
You see, if you want to pray because it "makes people feel better", that's great. You do that. But please don't pretend that it actually accomplishes something, and please don't give prayer the credit for my hard fucking work!
There are some that believe it does, so, I'm of the thought anything is possible...Nothing. But, why don't they just say that. Why do so many theists have to pretend that they are actually accomplishing something with prayer? See, that is my problem. If the purpose is "It makes me feel better", okay. But, just say that. Don't try to pretend that prayer actually serves a demonstrable function, or has any actual effect on the events about which one is praying.It makes people feel better
What's your issue with it?
Unless you sit on your ass praying for things to be provided to you...that's just being lazy
And, it's interesting that you mention "praying for things to be provided for you". That is another problem I have with prayer; it denies people the ability to be proud of their accomplishments. I mean, I need a job. So, I go to my parishioners, and they all "pray over me" that I get a job. Then I go out, put in applications, do job interviews, impress potential employers, and get a job. Yay, me! Right? WRONG!!! No, I, and all my parishioners "give God the glory":, and pretend that their stupid prayer was the reason I found a job. REALLY?!?!?
You see, if you want to pray because it "makes people feel better", that's great. You do that. But please don't pretend that it actually accomplishes something, and please don't give prayer the credit for my hard fucking work!
Number one, I read the links, I know the controversy involved with different findings which is why I included a link to the whole Google search, you know scientific pros and cons, something you're probably not all that familiar with.Here, you're referring specifically to the type of prayer that I was excluding from my question. "75 percent of Americans believe that prayer is an important part of daily life." I'm not talking about daily, ritualistic prayer.5 Scientifically Supported Benefits of PrayerThis is a serious question for theists. What does prayer accomplish. Now, keep in mind I am not talking about the ritualistic prayer one finds during most church services: "Our Father, who art in heaven, blah, blah, blah,". Although, I would submit that I have never understood that practice as it seems to fly in the face of Jesus' own commands about prayer - "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." Mat. 5:6 But that's a discussion for another time. No, I'm referring to "the prayers of healing", and "intercession".
I seem to hear two different schools of thought on this, and neither makes sense to me:
School one: Prayer is exactly what it seems to be; attempts to plead with God to intercede on behalf of the person being prayed for. "Please guide the hands of the surgeons, be with the nurses during the surgery..." etc. First, do the people who engage in this type of prayer really think that God is listening, specifically to them? Like God doesn't have anything more important to do, today, other than listen in for Kay's personal requests?
Second, are people so arrogant as to believe that they are important enough to interfere with "God's Will"? As if God had no intention of making sure the surgery was going to go well, until after Kay bothered him about it? Really??
I mean, I have many, many more problems with this school of thought, but we'll start there.
Now, the second school of thought, that I just began hearing recently is that prayer isn't about accomplishing anything at all. Rather it's just about "touching in" with God. It's about letting him know we know that everything is in his hands, and whatever happens, we're cool with it.
Couple of things. First, do we really think that we are important enough that God gives so much as a single fuck about what we're "cool with"?!?! Are we really so arrogant that we think God is just waiting for our call (prayer) affirming that we know what he knows we already know? Really?!?!
Second, really? We're cool with it? So, when God put that buck in the middle of the road, causing us to flip over in the care, and our wife is now on life support, barely hanging on by a thread, we're cool with that?!?! Really? Cuz I gotta tell you, I'm not cool with it. I'm fucking pissed!!!
Since neither of these schools of thought really make sense to me, could someone please explain the point of prayer?
You probably should have actaully read this link:
By the end of 26 weeks, a primary endpoint had occurred in 25.6% of patients in the prayer group and in 29.3% of patients in the control group. The difference was not statistically significant. The results remained nonsignificant when data were analyzed separately for high- and low-risk patients. Thus, this study showed that, as delivered in this study, intercessory prayer did not influence the 26-week outcome after discharge from a coronary care unit.So, in the first two studies, prayer was shown to have negligible, or even deleterious effect, and in the third, the methodology was extremely suspect. So, basically, these studies indicate that, objectively, prayer seems to have no positive effect, at all.
----------------------------------------
In the two groups that did not know for certain whether or not they were being prayed for, complications occurred in 52% of patients who received intercessory prayer and in 51% of those who did not. In contrast, complications occurred in a significantly larger proportion of patients (59%) who knew for certain that they were being prayed for. Major events and 30-day mortality rates, however, were similar across the three groups.
This study therefore showed that remote intercessory prayer did not improve outcomes after coronary artery bypass graft surgery. In fact, the knowledge of being prayed for was associated with a slightly but significantly higher rate of postsurgical complications.
-----------------------------------------
Some points about this study are worth noting. The differences between groups, although significantly favoring patients for whom prayer was offered, were very small; the medians of the two groups differed by a small margin. Thus, the significance of the findings depended heavily upon the outliers who skewed the sample. Next, no attempt was made to compare for unusual biases, such as day of admission and discharge. It is conceivable, for example, that patients admitted toward the end of the week may have been investigated and treated more slowly and those due for discharge toward the end of the week may have been retained until the start of the next week.
And, again, this is talking about the practice of daily, ritual prayer, which is specifically what I indicated was not to what I was referring.
Number one, I read the links, I know the controversy involved with different findings which is why I included a link to the whole Google search, you know scientific pros and cons, something you're probably not all that familiar with.Here, you're referring specifically to the type of prayer that I was excluding from my question. "75 percent of Americans believe that prayer is an important part of daily life." I'm not talking about daily, ritualistic prayer.5 Scientifically Supported Benefits of PrayerThis is a serious question for theists. What does prayer accomplish. Now, keep in mind I am not talking about the ritualistic prayer one finds during most church services: "Our Father, who art in heaven, blah, blah, blah,". Although, I would submit that I have never understood that practice as it seems to fly in the face of Jesus' own commands about prayer - "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." Mat. 5:6 But that's a discussion for another time. No, I'm referring to "the prayers of healing", and "intercession".
I seem to hear two different schools of thought on this, and neither makes sense to me:
School one: Prayer is exactly what it seems to be; attempts to plead with God to intercede on behalf of the person being prayed for. "Please guide the hands of the surgeons, be with the nurses during the surgery..." etc. First, do the people who engage in this type of prayer really think that God is listening, specifically to them? Like God doesn't have anything more important to do, today, other than listen in for Kay's personal requests?
Second, are people so arrogant as to believe that they are important enough to interfere with "God's Will"? As if God had no intention of making sure the surgery was going to go well, until after Kay bothered him about it? Really??
I mean, I have many, many more problems with this school of thought, but we'll start there.
Now, the second school of thought, that I just began hearing recently is that prayer isn't about accomplishing anything at all. Rather it's just about "touching in" with God. It's about letting him know we know that everything is in his hands, and whatever happens, we're cool with it.
Couple of things. First, do we really think that we are important enough that God gives so much as a single fuck about what we're "cool with"?!?! Are we really so arrogant that we think God is just waiting for our call (prayer) affirming that we know what he knows we already know? Really?!?!
Second, really? We're cool with it? So, when God put that buck in the middle of the road, causing us to flip over in the care, and our wife is now on life support, barely hanging on by a thread, we're cool with that?!?! Really? Cuz I gotta tell you, I'm not cool with it. I'm fucking pissed!!!
Since neither of these schools of thought really make sense to me, could someone please explain the point of prayer?
You probably should have actaully read this link:
By the end of 26 weeks, a primary endpoint had occurred in 25.6% of patients in the prayer group and in 29.3% of patients in the control group. The difference was not statistically significant. The results remained nonsignificant when data were analyzed separately for high- and low-risk patients. Thus, this study showed that, as delivered in this study, intercessory prayer did not influence the 26-week outcome after discharge from a coronary care unit.So, in the first two studies, prayer was shown to have negligible, or even deleterious effect, and in the third, the methodology was extremely suspect. So, basically, these studies indicate that, objectively, prayer seems to have no positive effect, at all.
----------------------------------------
In the two groups that did not know for certain whether or not they were being prayed for, complications occurred in 52% of patients who received intercessory prayer and in 51% of those who did not. In contrast, complications occurred in a significantly larger proportion of patients (59%) who knew for certain that they were being prayed for. Major events and 30-day mortality rates, however, were similar across the three groups.
This study therefore showed that remote intercessory prayer did not improve outcomes after coronary artery bypass graft surgery. In fact, the knowledge of being prayed for was associated with a slightly but significantly higher rate of postsurgical complications.
-----------------------------------------
Some points about this study are worth noting. The differences between groups, although significantly favoring patients for whom prayer was offered, were very small; the medians of the two groups differed by a small margin. Thus, the significance of the findings depended heavily upon the outliers who skewed the sample. Next, no attempt was made to compare for unusual biases, such as day of admission and discharge. It is conceivable, for example, that patients admitted toward the end of the week may have been investigated and treated more slowly and those due for discharge toward the end of the week may have been retained until the start of the next week.
And, again, this is talking about the practice of daily, ritual prayer, which is specifically what I indicated was not to what I was referring.
Now I was simply pointing out studies that state both positive and negative, as expected you keyed in on only the negative......... That just proved confirmation bias........ Thanks for your participation.
