What is accomplished by prayer?

[Czernobog]

Ya know, this is an interesting break down of the different types of prayer. All of them seem to be centered on one thing - the person praying. In it, I don't see an example of "God, guide the hands of the surgeon..." What type of prayer would that be?

Prayers requesting assistance.

okay, so:

Prayers Requesting Assistance: This helps us to remember that Christ said the poor in spirit (poor people know they are in need) are blessed, even strengthened.

Still seems to be more about introspection. So, one praying such prayer doesn't really expect God to personally get involved in the surgery. Mostly it's just a crutch to help the religious cope with whatever situation they are dealing with. Okay.

 

[Picaro]

This is a serious question for theists. What does prayer accomplish. Now, keep in mind I am not talking about the ritualistic prayer one finds during most church services: "Our Father, who art in heaven, blah, blah, blah,". Although, I would submit that I have never understood that practice as it seems to fly in the face of Jesus' own commands about prayer - "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." Mat. 5:6 But that's a discussion for another time. No, I'm referring to "the prayers of healing", and "intercession".

I seem to hear two different schools of thought on this, and neither makes sense to me:

School one: Prayer is exactly what it seems to be; attempts to plead with God to intercede on behalf of the person being prayed for. "Please guide the hands of the surgeons, be with the nurses during the surgery..." etc. First, do the people who engage in this type of prayer really think that God is listening, specifically to them? Like God doesn't have anything more important to do, today, other than listen in for Kay's personal requests?

Second, are people so arrogant as to believe that they are important enough to interfere with "God's Will"? As if God had no intention of making sure the surgery was going to go well, until after Kay bothered him about it? Really??

I mean, I have many, many more problems with this school of thought, but we'll start there.

Now, the second school of thought, that I just began hearing recently is that prayer isn't about accomplishing anything at all. Rather it's just about "touching in" with God. It's about letting him know we know that everything is in his hands, and whatever happens, we're cool with it.

Couple of things. First, do we really think that we are important enough that God gives so much as a single fuck about what we're "cool with"?!?! Are we really so arrogant that we think God is just waiting for our call (prayer) affirming that we know what he knows we already know? Really?!?!

Second, really? We're cool with it? So, when God put that buck in the middle of the road, causing us to flip over in the care, and our wife is now on life support, barely hanging on by a thread, we're cool with that?!?! Really? Cuz I gotta tell you, I'm not cool with it. I'm fucking pissed!!!

Since neither of these schools of thought really make sense to me, could someone please explain the point of prayer?

It has many actual physical benefits, for one; it's a form of meditation and stress relief, something you could obviously use daily.

 

[Picaro]

It seems yours is a personal struggle from within. I will pray for you, regardless of whether or not that is the case.

Agreed. His constant harping about Christianity shows deep down he knows it’s true.

Now, see? I haven't harped about anything. I asked a perfectly reasonable question. If you're just here to troll, feel free to fuck off.

99% of your posts are on Christianity. Don’t feel bad about your struggle. Continue to seek the truth and you too can live a happy Christian life.

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

 

[Czernobog]

It seems yours is a personal struggle from within. I will pray for you, regardless of whether or not that is the case.

Agreed. His constant harping about Christianity shows deep down he knows it’s true.

Now, see? I haven't harped about anything. I asked a perfectly reasonable question. If you're just here to troll, feel free to fuck off.

99% of your posts are on Christianity. Don’t feel bad about your struggle. Continue to seek the truth and you too can live a happy Christian life.

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

 

[Meriweather]

Still seems to be more about introspection. So, one praying such prayer doesn't really expect God to personally get involved in the surgery. Mostly it's just a crutch to help the religious cope with whatever situation they are dealing with. Okay.

You are missing the part where we believe humans are made up of body, mind, and spirit--and that God is pure spirit. So while we don't expect God to move the surgeon's hands, we do believe that God can help in refreshing and strengthening one's of the spirit, always provided the individual is open to such interaction.

If a person does not believe in God, or does not believe spirit is part of the human make-up, then prayer will never make sense.

 

[Czernobog]

Still seems to be more about introspection. So, one praying such prayer doesn't really expect God to personally get involved in the surgery. Mostly it's just a crutch to help the religious cope with whatever situation they are dealing with. Okay.

You are missing the part where we believe humans are made up of body, mind, and spirit--and that God is pure spirit. So while we don't expect God to move the surgeon's hands, we do believe that God can help in refreshing and strengthening one's of the spirit, always provided the individual is open to such interaction.

If a person does not believe in God, or does not believe spirit is part of the human make-up, then prayer will never make sense.

And...how useful is that prayer if the surgeon is not a believer? Will your prayers still "refresh" his "spirit"? I mean you just that it is dependent on the person being "open to such interaction".

 

[Gracie]

I don't pray. I chat with Him. Both of Hims. In my head. I don't say Amen either. I just say "chat soon".

 

[Gracie]

Still seems to be more about introspection. So, one praying such prayer doesn't really expect God to personally get involved in the surgery. Mostly it's just a crutch to help the religious cope with whatever situation they are dealing with. Okay.

You are missing the part where we believe humans are made up of body, mind, and spirit--and that God is pure spirit. So while we don't expect God to move the surgeon's hands, we do believe that God can help in refreshing and strengthening one's of the spirit, always provided the individual is open to such interaction.

If a person does not believe in God, or does not believe spirit is part of the human make-up, then prayer will never make sense.

And...how useful is that prayer if the surgeon is not a believer? Will your prayers still "refresh" his "spirit"? I mean you just that it is dependent on the person being "open to such interaction".

Yer not praying to the surgeon. You are praying to the one guiding his hands.

 

[Meriweather]

And...how useful is that prayer if the surgeon is not a believer? Will your prayers still "refresh" his "spirit"? I mean you just that it is dependent on the person being "open to such interaction".

That I leave to God. Whether a believer or not, does the surgeon want to do his best? Is his spirit willing to do his best? Do you think God loves disbelievers any less?

 

[Czernobog]

Still seems to be more about introspection. So, one praying such prayer doesn't really expect God to personally get involved in the surgery. Mostly it's just a crutch to help the religious cope with whatever situation they are dealing with. Okay.

You are missing the part where we believe humans are made up of body, mind, and spirit--and that God is pure spirit. So while we don't expect God to move the surgeon's hands, we do believe that God can help in refreshing and strengthening one's of the spirit, always provided the individual is open to such interaction.

If a person does not believe in God, or does not believe spirit is part of the human make-up, then prayer will never make sense.

And...how useful is that prayer if the surgeon is not a believer? Will your prayers still "refresh" his "spirit"? I mean you just that it is dependent on the person being "open to such interaction".

Yer not praying to the surgeon. You are praying to the one guiding his hands.

So, you believe that God personally gets involved in the surgery? Because you asked him to?

 

[Czernobog]

And...how useful is that prayer if the surgeon is not a believer? Will your prayers still "refresh" his "spirit"? I mean you just that it is dependent on the person being "open to such interaction".

That I leave to God. Whether a believer or not, does the surgeon want to do his best? Is his spirit willing to do his best? Do you think God loves disbelievers any less?

So, when a doctor "does his best", he gets no credit for that? How about when he doesn't? Is that God's fault, too? Did he forget to "guide" his hand that time? Or is that all on the surgeon?

 

[Meriweather]

[So, when a doctor "does his best", he gets no credit for that? How about when he doesn't? Is that God's fault, too? Did he forget to "guide" his hand that time? Or is that all on the surgeon?

Who says the doctor doesn't get credit?

 

[Vandalshandle]

Ya know, this is an interesting break down of the different types of prayer. All of them seem to be centered on one thing - the person praying. In it, I don't see an example of "God, guide the hands of the surgeon..." What type of prayer would that be?

Prayers requesting assistance.

okay, so:

Prayers Requesting Assistance: This helps us to remember that Christ said the poor in spirit (poor people know they are in need) are blessed, even strengthened.

Still seems to be more about introspection. So, one praying such prayer doesn't really expect God to personally get involved in the surgery. Mostly it's just a crutch to help the religious cope with whatever situation they are dealing with. Okay.

I am familiar with four kids of prayer.

1. Ritualistic. Recited rote while trying to remember if you turned off the oven before going to church)
2. Duty prayers. My brother would live in abject misery if I died without being "saved" due to his negligence to pray for me.
3. Peer prayers. I lost a good friend this week. 95% posted on his Facebook page that they will pray for his family in this time of grief. The rest of us wrote a short eulogy about him.
4. It's all about me. Help me get through this crisis, Heal my cancer, Stop my husband from drinking and beating me. If you just get me out of this mess, I will attend mass every day, just like Rose Kennedy did.

They are all equally effective (or not).

 

[Czernobog]

[So, when a doctor "does his best", he gets no credit for that? How about when he doesn't? Is that God's fault, too? Did he forget to "guide" his hand that time? Or is that all on the surgeon?

Who says the doctor doesn't get credit?

Because "God" gets credit. After all he was the one "guiding the surgeon's hands"...

 

[Meriweather]

Because "God" gets credit. After all he was the one "guiding the surgeon's hands"...

Who says?

 

[Czernobog]

Because "God" gets credit. After all he was the one "guiding the surgeon's hands"...

Who says?

I was specifically asking what God does when you pray for "God" to "guide the surgeon's hands" if that surgeon is not a believe3r, and you replied:

That I leave to God. Whether a believer or not, does the surgeon want to do his best? Is his spirit willing to do his best? Do you think God loves disbelievers any less?

Perhaps you might explain what the surgeon "doing his best" has to do with "God guiding his hands".

 

[JustAnotherNut]

As stated there are many types of prayers and for many reasons. For those that believe in God and His power, to pray also is a show of humility and our dependence on Him and that we acknowledge we can't do everything ourselves and need Him. This is the basis of having a relationship with God, coming to Him in prayer.....to keep communication lines open.
Praying for things, is expecting Him to pay off like a slot machine, but is not a relationship. We are taught to pray faith-filled prayers. Are they answered? Yes, even when we can not see the answer. And sometimes the answer is no because there is a greater purpose. We are also taught to pray in accordance of His will. And yet, we still don't have all the answers as to why some prayers are favorably answered & others are not. It may be many years afterward before we can see the pieces of the puzzle & how they fit together for a better result than what we had prayed for in the beginning.

Is it coincidence that some things happen the way they do? Or is it from the result of prayer? Who's to say that it wasn't God guiding the surgeons hands that you survived the surgery, because someone prayed for your healing? Or the surgeon just doing a successful job, based on his skills, education & abilities? It's like having perspective.....some people see it one way, and others see it differently. It's all about choice, and that is up to you on how you choose to believe.

 

[Meriweather]

I was specifically asking what God does when you pray for "God" to "guide the surgeon's hands" if that surgeon is not a believe3r, and you replied:

That I leave to God. Whether a believer or not, does the surgeon want to do his best? Is his spirit willing to do his best? Do you think God loves disbelievers any less?

Perhaps you might explain what the surgeon "doing his best" has to do with "God guiding his hands".

Keep in mind it is you who keeps apparently imagining God moving the surgeon's hands. I specifically said God does not move the surgeon's hands, that as spirit, God works with our spirit. The surgeon is not just a "pair of hands" but an entire being consisting of body, mind, and spirit. So why do you keep bringing up the physical part of the man? Without a mind and spirit, could hands perform surgery?

 

[Weatherman2020]

It seems yours is a personal struggle from within. I will pray for you, regardless of whether or not that is the case.

Agreed. His constant harping about Christianity shows deep down he knows it’s true.

Now, see? I haven't harped about anything. I asked a perfectly reasonable question. If you're just here to troll, feel free to fuck off.

99% of your posts are on Christianity. Don’t feel bad about your struggle. Continue to seek the truth and you too can live a happy Christian life.

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Ya know, this is an interesting break down of the different types of prayer. All of them seem to be centered on one thing - the person praying. In it, I don't see an example of "God, guide the hands of the surgeon..." What type of prayer would that be?

Prayers requesting assistance.

okay, so:

Prayers Requesting Assistance: This helps us to remember that Christ said the poor in spirit (poor people know they are in need) are blessed, even strengthened.

Still seems to be more about introspection. So, one praying such prayer doesn't really expect God to personally get involved in the surgery. Mostly it's just a crutch to help the religious cope with whatever situation they are dealing with. Okay.

I am familiar with four kids of prayer.

1. Ritualistic. Recited rote while trying to remember if you turned off the oven before going to church)
2. Duty prayers. My brother would live in abject misery if I died without being "saved" due to his negligence to pray for me.
3. Peer prayers. I lost a good friend this week. 95% posted on his Facebook page that they will pray for his family in this time of grief. The rest of us wrote a short eulogy about him.
4. It's all about me. Help me get through this crisis, Heal my cancer, Stop my husband from drinking and beating me. If you just get me out of this mess, I will attend mass every day, just like Rose Kennedy did.

They are all equally effective (or not).

• A: Adoration (worship)

• C: Confession (of specific sins)

• T: Thanksgiving (gratitude)

• S: Supplication (specific requests).