What is accomplished by prayer?

[tycho1572]

Prayer encompasses a personal belief in God that helps many through tough times.
It’s not something we should be questioning or degenerating.

I categorically disagree. First of all, "Prayer encompasses a personal belief in God..." in no way answers the question asked. Second, I will never agree that the wilful disregard of reason, and logic (faith) is ever a positive thing.

You're questioning others beliefs. That’s something you shouldn’t be doing because it’s personal to them.

Says who? Everyone has a right to their beliefs. There is nothing that says that right comes with a guarantee that you need not defend it.

“What is accomplished by prayer?”

I hope I was able to answer your question.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

Let's start at 1.
1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.

I made my wealth on engineering, and hold a US Patent.
But let's let that ride for a moment.
Kepler, Galilei, Bacon, Pascal, Newton, Faraday, Boyle, Collins, Kelvin, Einstein, Plank, Bach, Beethoven, every man who walked on the moon, etc etc were hindered at rational critical thought?

Let's start with 1 - You choose to believe in a Magic-Man-in-the-Sky for which there is literally no objective evidence whatsoever, and follow a book that is objectively unreliable. That is the very definition of denying rational, critical thought. And in answer to your question, yes, everyone of them eschewed reason for magical thinking. And Einstein was an atheist, thank you very much!

Faith is literally, the encouragement to deny reason, and rational thought.

Faith - firm belief in something for which there is no proof. That is denial of rational, critical thought.

Just as every astronaut who walked on the moon says, they see more than enough proof that Jesus is the Son of God.
You either lack the intellect to recognize it or you refuse to recognize it.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

Let's start at 1.
1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.

I made my wealth on engineering, and hold a US Patent.
But let's let that ride for a moment.
Kepler, Galilei, Bacon, Pascal, Newton, Faraday, Boyle, Collins, Kelvin, Einstein, Plank, Bach, Beethoven, every man who walked on the moon, etc etc were hindered at rational critical thought?

Let's start with 1 - You choose to believe in a Magic-Man-in-the-Sky for which there is literally no objective evidence whatsoever, and follow a book that is objectively unreliable. That is the very definition of denying rational, critical thought. And in answer to your question, yes, everyone of them eschewed reason for magical thinking. And Einstein was an atheist, thank you very much!

Faith is literally, the encouragement to deny reason, and rational thought.

Faith - firm belief in something for which there is no proof. That is denial of rational, critical thought.

Just as every astronaut who walked on the moon says, they see more than enough proof that Jesus is the Son of God.
You either lack the intellect to recognize it or you refuse to recognize it.

You...smarter than 80% of the world's population? Haha, oh man, that's a good one.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

Let's start at 1.
1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.

I made my wealth on engineering, and hold a US Patent.
But let's let that ride for a moment.
Kepler, Galilei, Bacon, Pascal, Newton, Faraday, Boyle, Collins, Kelvin, Einstein, Plank, Bach, Beethoven, every man who walked on the moon, etc etc were hindered at rational critical thought?

Let's start with 1 - You choose to believe in a Magic-Man-in-the-Sky for which there is literally no objective evidence whatsoever, and follow a book that is objectively unreliable. That is the very definition of denying rational, critical thought. And in answer to your question, yes, everyone of them eschewed reason for magical thinking. And Einstein was an atheist, thank you very much!

Faith is literally, the encouragement to deny reason, and rational thought.

Faith - firm belief in something for which there is no proof. That is denial of rational, critical thought.

Just as every astronaut who walked on the moon says, they see more than enough proof that Jesus is the Son of God.
You either lack the intellect to recognize it or you refuse to recognize it.

You...smarter than 80% of the world's population? Haha, oh man, that's a good one.

Only one reason teaching Christianity is against the law in many nations - truth always wins.
And it's 33% is Christian, moron.

 

[Chuz Life]

This is a serious question for theists. What does prayer accomplish. Now, keep in mind I am not talking about the ritualistic prayer one finds during most church services: "Our Father, who art in heaven, blah, blah, blah,". Although, I would submit that I have never understood that practice as it seems to fly in the face of Jesus' own commands about prayer - "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." Mat. 5:6 But that's a discussion for another time. No, I'm referring to "the prayers of healing", and "intercession".

I seem to hear two different schools of thought on this, and neither makes sense to me:

School one: Prayer is exactly what it seems to be; attempts to plead with God to intercede on behalf of the person being prayed for. "Please guide the hands of the surgeons, be with the nurses during the surgery..." etc. First, do the people who engage in this type of prayer really think that God is listening, specifically to them? Like God doesn't have anything more important to do, today, other than listen in for Kay's personal requests?

Second, are people so arrogant as to believe that they are important enough to interfere with "God's Will"? As if God had no intention of making sure the surgery was going to go well, until after Kay bothered him about it? Really??

I mean, I have many, many more problems with this school of thought, but we'll start there.

Now, the second school of thought, that I just began hearing recently is that prayer isn't about accomplishing anything at all. Rather it's just about "touching in" with God. It's about letting him know we know that everything is in his hands, and whatever happens, we're cool with it.

Couple of things. First, do we really think that we are important enough that God gives so much as a single fuck about what we're "cool with"?!?! Are we really so arrogant that we think God is just waiting for our call (prayer) affirming that we know what he knows we already know? Really?!?!

Second, really? We're cool with it? So, when God put that buck in the middle of the road, causing us to flip over in the care, and our wife is now on life support, barely hanging on by a thread, we're cool with that?!?! Really? Cuz I gotta tell you, I'm not cool with it. I'm fucking pissed!!!

Since neither of these schools of thought really make sense to me, could someone please explain the point of prayer?

I don't know if someone else may have said it but in my view, the purpose of prayer is simply for the person saying the prayer to essentially self motivate.

It's very hard to believe that anyone prays for something out of indifference. They pray because they care and putting those cares into action (even if it's just a ritualistic quiet little prayer). . . That tends to motivate them to do even more.

Think of it as just another form of meditation in that regard.

 

[Weatherman2020]

99% of your posts are on Christianity. Don’t feel bad about your struggle. Continue to seek the truth and you too can live a happy Christian life.

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

Let's go to #2.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.

So why are you against incest and polygamy? Yeah, it's OK for you to tell someone what they can and cannot do, but nobody can criticize your sexual aversions.

 

[Eaglewings]

This is a serious question for theists. What does prayer accomplish. Now, keep in mind I am not talking about the ritualistic prayer one finds during most church services: "Our Father, who art in heaven, blah, blah, blah,". Although, I would submit that I have never understood that practice as it seems to fly in the face of Jesus' own commands about prayer - "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." Mat. 5:6 But that's a discussion for another time. No, I'm referring to "the prayers of healing", and "intercession".

I seem to hear two different schools of thought on this, and neither makes sense to me:

School one: Prayer is exactly what it seems to be; attempts to plead with God to intercede on behalf of the person being prayed for. "Please guide the hands of the surgeons, be with the nurses during the surgery..." etc. First, do the people who engage in this type of prayer really think that God is listening, specifically to them? Like God doesn't have anything more important to do, today, other than listen in for Kay's personal requests?

Second, are people so arrogant as to believe that they are important enough to interfere with "God's Will"? As if God had no intention of making sure the surgery was going to go well, until after Kay bothered him about it? Really??

I mean, I have many, many more problems with this school of thought, but we'll start there.

Now, the second school of thought, that I just began hearing recently is that prayer isn't about accomplishing anything at all. Rather it's just about "touching in" with God. It's about letting him know we know that everything is in his hands, and whatever happens, we're cool with it.

Couple of things. First, do we really think that we are important enough that God gives so much as a single fuck about what we're "cool with"?!?! Are we really so arrogant that we think God is just waiting for our call (prayer) affirming that we know what he knows we already know? Really?!?!

Second, really? We're cool with it? So, when God put that buck in the middle of the road, causing us to flip over in the care, and our wife is now on life support, barely hanging on by a thread, we're cool with that?!?! Really? Cuz I gotta tell you, I'm not cool with it. I'm fucking pissed!!!

Since neither of these schools of thought really make sense to me, could someone please explain the point of prayer?

I showed you what prayer does to the brain a few weeks back... and these images are scientific facts..Remember?


.

 

[Weatherman2020]

99% of your posts are on Christianity. Don’t feel bad about your struggle. Continue to seek the truth and you too can live a happy Christian life.

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

Let's go onto #3.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.

Women make up much of the Bible, most of them heroes. Ruth, Ester, Queen of Sheba, Mary of Nazareth, Mary of Magdela, Rahab, etc etc. The very first person Jesus told who he was was a woman.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

Let's start at 1.
1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.

I made my wealth on engineering, and hold a US Patent.
But let's let that ride for a moment.
Kepler, Galilei, Bacon, Pascal, Newton, Faraday, Boyle, Collins, Kelvin, Einstein, Plank, Bach, Beethoven, every man who walked on the moon, etc etc were hindered at rational critical thought?

Let's start with 1 - You choose to believe in a Magic-Man-in-the-Sky for which there is literally no objective evidence whatsoever, and follow a book that is objectively unreliable. That is the very definition of denying rational, critical thought. And in answer to your question, yes, everyone of them eschewed reason for magical thinking. And Einstein was an atheist, thank you very much!

Faith is literally, the encouragement to deny reason, and rational thought.

Faith - firm belief in something for which there is no proof. That is denial of rational, critical thought.

Just as every astronaut who walked on the moon says, they see more than enough proof that Jesus is the Son of God.
You either lack the intellect to recognize it or you refuse to recognize it.

You...smarter than 80% of the world's population? Haha, oh man, that's a good one.

Only one reason teaching Christianity is against the law in many nations - truth always wins.
And it's 33% is Christian, moron.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

Let's start at 1.
1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.

I made my wealth on engineering, and hold a US Patent.
But let's let that ride for a moment.
Kepler, Galilei, Bacon, Pascal, Newton, Faraday, Boyle, Collins, Kelvin, Einstein, Plank, Bach, Beethoven, every man who walked on the moon, etc etc were hindered at rational critical thought?

Let's start with 1 - You choose to believe in a Magic-Man-in-the-Sky for which there is literally no objective evidence whatsoever, and follow a book that is objectively unreliable. That is the very definition of denying rational, critical thought. And in answer to your question, yes, everyone of them eschewed reason for magical thinking. And Einstein was an atheist, thank you very much!

Faith is literally, the encouragement to deny reason, and rational thought.

Faith - firm belief in something for which there is no proof. That is denial of rational, critical thought.

Just as every astronaut who walked on the moon says, they see more than enough proof that Jesus is the Son of God.
You either lack the intellect to recognize it or you refuse to recognize it.

You...smarter than 80% of the world's population? Haha, oh man, that's a good one.

Only one reason teaching Christianity is against the law in many nations - truth always wins.
And it's 33% is Christian, moron.

"truthalways wins."

Apparently, "always" now means 33% of the time, heh heh

 

[Weatherman2020]

99% of your posts are on Christianity. Don’t feel bad about your struggle. Continue to seek the truth and you too can live a happy Christian life.

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

Now #4.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.

So Rev Martin Luther King's children hate and fear science and scientists?
Sorry, science validates the Bible, archeological, historical, and physics.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Let's start at 1.
1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.

I made my wealth on engineering, and hold a US Patent.
But let's let that ride for a moment.
Kepler, Galilei, Bacon, Pascal, Newton, Faraday, Boyle, Collins, Kelvin, Einstein, Plank, Bach, Beethoven, every man who walked on the moon, etc etc were hindered at rational critical thought?

Let's start with 1 - You choose to believe in a Magic-Man-in-the-Sky for which there is literally no objective evidence whatsoever, and follow a book that is objectively unreliable. That is the very definition of denying rational, critical thought. And in answer to your question, yes, everyone of them eschewed reason for magical thinking. And Einstein was an atheist, thank you very much!

Faith is literally, the encouragement to deny reason, and rational thought.

Faith - firm belief in something for which there is no proof. That is denial of rational, critical thought.

Just as every astronaut who walked on the moon says, they see more than enough proof that Jesus is the Son of God.
You either lack the intellect to recognize it or you refuse to recognize it.

You...smarter than 80% of the world's population? Haha, oh man, that's a good one.

Only one reason teaching Christianity is against the law in many nations - truth always wins.
And it's 33% is Christian, moron.

Let's start at 1.
1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.

I made my wealth on engineering, and hold a US Patent.
But let's let that ride for a moment.
Kepler, Galilei, Bacon, Pascal, Newton, Faraday, Boyle, Collins, Kelvin, Einstein, Plank, Bach, Beethoven, every man who walked on the moon, etc etc were hindered at rational critical thought?

Let's start with 1 - You choose to believe in a Magic-Man-in-the-Sky for which there is literally no objective evidence whatsoever, and follow a book that is objectively unreliable. That is the very definition of denying rational, critical thought. And in answer to your question, yes, everyone of them eschewed reason for magical thinking. And Einstein was an atheist, thank you very much!

Faith is literally, the encouragement to deny reason, and rational thought.

Faith - firm belief in something for which there is no proof. That is denial of rational, critical thought.

Just as every astronaut who walked on the moon says, they see more than enough proof that Jesus is the Son of God.
You either lack the intellect to recognize it or you refuse to recognize it.

You...smarter than 80% of the world's population? Haha, oh man, that's a good one.

Only one reason teaching Christianity is against the law in many nations - truth always wins.
And it's 33% is Christian, moron.

"truthalways wins."

Apparently, "always" now means 33% of the time, heh heh

You have no interest in truth. So yes, truth always wins. You will just learn it later than those of us interested in the truth.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Let's start with 1 - You choose to believe in a Magic-Man-in-the-Sky for which there is literally no objective evidence whatsoever, and follow a book that is objectively unreliable. That is the very definition of denying rational, critical thought. And in answer to your question, yes, everyone of them eschewed reason for magical thinking. And Einstein was an atheist, thank you very much!

Faith is literally, the encouragement to deny reason, and rational thought.

Faith - firm belief in something for which there is no proof. That is denial of rational, critical thought.

Just as every astronaut who walked on the moon says, they see more than enough proof that Jesus is the Son of God.
You either lack the intellect to recognize it or you refuse to recognize it.

You...smarter than 80% of the world's population? Haha, oh man, that's a good one.

Only one reason teaching Christianity is against the law in many nations - truth always wins.
And it's 33% is Christian, moron.

Let's start with 1 - You choose to believe in a Magic-Man-in-the-Sky for which there is literally no objective evidence whatsoever, and follow a book that is objectively unreliable. That is the very definition of denying rational, critical thought. And in answer to your question, yes, everyone of them eschewed reason for magical thinking. And Einstein was an atheist, thank you very much!

Faith is literally, the encouragement to deny reason, and rational thought.

Faith - firm belief in something for which there is no proof. That is denial of rational, critical thought.

Just as every astronaut who walked on the moon says, they see more than enough proof that Jesus is the Son of God.
You either lack the intellect to recognize it or you refuse to recognize it.

You...smarter than 80% of the world's population? Haha, oh man, that's a good one.

Only one reason teaching Christianity is against the law in many nations - truth always wins.
And it's 33% is Christian, moron.

"truthalways wins."

Apparently, "always" now means 33% of the time, heh heh

You have no interest in truth. So yes, truth always wins. You will just learn it later than those of us interested in the truth.

Shaman Weatherman has spoken! Heed his words, all ye who value your eternal souls!

Okay, freak show.

 

[tycho1572]

I hadn’t stepped foot into a church until I was 15. That was after helping a friends brother build a Pentecostal Church.
I walked out mid sermon after a woman started talking gibberish and knocking chairs over. It was the weirdest thing I’ve ever seen. lol

Being young and smart, I decided to visit churches of different denominations for a better understanding of religion. They all had their pros and cons.

In the end, I was left with following the golden rule my parents taught me... treat everyone the way I would want to be treated.

 

[Weatherman2020]

99% of your posts are on Christianity. Don’t feel bad about your struggle. Continue to seek the truth and you too can live a happy Christian life.

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

Onto #5.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).

Ah, the "it happened 500 years ago" argument. The today practice you mention is other religions, not mine.
If you want to believe it was done for the good of the people rather than power and control, that is your issue. There is no mention of torturing and burning people at the stake in the Bible.

 

[Weatherman2020]

99% of your posts are on Christianity. Don’t feel bad about your struggle. Continue to seek the truth and you too can live a happy Christian life.

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

Off to #6.
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.

What do you mean by "make the most this life"? If you mean not going to third world countries to help people living in boxes with sewage running down the dirt road outside get on their feet to become productive adults and get medical treatment to save lives and make people walk and instead going to bars and watching TV, then I plead guilty. You got me on this one.

 

[Weatherman2020]

99% of your posts are on Christianity. Don’t feel bad about your struggle. Continue to seek the truth and you too can live a happy Christian life.

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

We will wrap tonight up with #7.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.

What can I say? You and those who do such things read a tiny fraction of the Bible and jump to wild inaccurate conclusions. Free country, their body, their choice, right?

 

[OnePercenter]

This is a serious question for theists. What does prayer accomplish. Now, keep in mind I am not talking about the ritualistic prayer one finds during most church services: "Our Father, who art in heaven, blah, blah, blah,". Although, I would submit that I have never understood that practice as it seems to fly in the face of Jesus' own commands about prayer - "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." Mat. 5:6 But that's a discussion for another time. No, I'm referring to "the prayers of healing", and "intercession".

I seem to hear two different schools of thought on this, and neither makes sense to me:

School one: Prayer is exactly what it seems to be; attempts to plead with God to intercede on behalf of the person being prayed for. "Please guide the hands of the surgeons, be with the nurses during the surgery..." etc. First, do the people who engage in this type of prayer really think that God is listening, specifically to them? Like God doesn't have anything more important to do, today, other than listen in for Kay's personal requests?

Second, are people so arrogant as to believe that they are important enough to interfere with "God's Will"? As if God had no intention of making sure the surgery was going to go well, until after Kay bothered him about it? Really??

I mean, I have many, many more problems with this school of thought, but we'll start there.

Now, the second school of thought, that I just began hearing recently is that prayer isn't about accomplishing anything at all. Rather it's just about "touching in" with God. It's about letting him know we know that everything is in his hands, and whatever happens, we're cool with it.

Couple of things. First, do we really think that we are important enough that God gives so much as a single fuck about what we're "cool with"?!?! Are we really so arrogant that we think God is just waiting for our call (prayer) affirming that we know what he knows we already know? Really?!?!

Second, really? We're cool with it? So, when God put that buck in the middle of the road, causing us to flip over in the care, and our wife is now on life support, barely hanging on by a thread, we're cool with that?!?! Really? Cuz I gotta tell you, I'm not cool with it. I'm fucking pissed!!!

Since neither of these schools of thought really make sense to me, could someone please explain the point of prayer?

5 Scientifically Supported Benefits of Prayer

Prayer and healing: A medical and scientific perspective on randomized controlled trials

http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/08854720903113424?src=recsys&journalCode=whcc20

the positive psychological aspect of prayer - Google Search

I agree that prayer is a form of stress management, but so is Yoga.

I'll take Yoga, and it gets one off his/her fat ass too!

 

[Weatherman2020]

99% of your posts are on Christianity. Don’t feel bad about your struggle. Continue to seek the truth and you too can live a happy Christian life.

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

One last one I want to get to first. #10.

10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.

There is compelling evidence that male circumcision reduces the risk of heterosexually acquired HIV infection in men by approximately 60%. Three randomized controlled trials have shown that male circumcision provided by well trained health professionals in properly equipped settings is safe.
WHO | Male circumcision for HIV prevention
Male circumcision for HIV prevention

So who is the unscientific one again?

 

[Spare_change]

This is a serious question for theists. What does prayer accomplish. Now, keep in mind I am not talking about the ritualistic prayer one finds during most church services: "Our Father, who art in heaven, blah, blah, blah,". Although, I would submit that I have never understood that practice as it seems to fly in the face of Jesus' own commands about prayer - "But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you." Mat. 5:6 But that's a discussion for another time. No, I'm referring to "the prayers of healing", and "intercession".

I seem to hear two different schools of thought on this, and neither makes sense to me:

School one: Prayer is exactly what it seems to be; attempts to plead with God to intercede on behalf of the person being prayed for. "Please guide the hands of the surgeons, be with the nurses during the surgery..." etc. First, do the people who engage in this type of prayer really think that God is listening, specifically to them? Like God doesn't have anything more important to do, today, other than listen in for Kay's personal requests?

Second, are people so arrogant as to believe that they are important enough to interfere with "God's Will"? As if God had no intention of making sure the surgery was going to go well, until after Kay bothered him about it? Really??

I mean, I have many, many more problems with this school of thought, but we'll start there.

Now, the second school of thought, that I just began hearing recently is that prayer isn't about accomplishing anything at all. Rather it's just about "touching in" with God. It's about letting him know we know that everything is in his hands, and whatever happens, we're cool with it.

Couple of things. First, do we really think that we are important enough that God gives so much as a single fuck about what we're "cool with"?!?! Are we really so arrogant that we think God is just waiting for our call (prayer) affirming that we know what he knows we already know? Really?!?!

Second, really? We're cool with it? So, when God put that buck in the middle of the road, causing us to flip over in the care, and our wife is now on life support, barely hanging on by a thread, we're cool with that?!?! Really? Cuz I gotta tell you, I'm not cool with it. I'm fucking pissed!!!

Since neither of these schools of thought really make sense to me, could someone please explain the point of prayer?

Once again, you demonstrate a complete ignorance, and an apparent unwillingness to learn, about the true relationship between God and his followers.

God granted his followers free will --- He explained the path to righteousness, but he left to decision to walk it to the individual. He made it abundantly clear what were the consequences of our choices. Some do - some don't.

I know that what happens to me is a consequence of MY actions, not a grand plan by God. I pray to God, in times of peril, not because I want Him to vacate my consequences, but because I want Him to understand that, no matter what happens as a result of my choices, I am still His servant.

Ok, I admit it --- I am weak. I will ask Him to make it all better, to help me avoid the consequences of my actions, but that is a cry of anguish, rather than supplication. What I really want is reassurance of His presence, his support. I know I must be held accountable, but I want to be reassured of His love.

 

[Czernobog]

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

Let's start at 1.
1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.

I made my wealth on engineering, and hold a US Patent.
But let's let that ride for a moment.
Kepler, Galilei, Bacon, Pascal, Newton, Faraday, Boyle, Collins, Kelvin, Einstein, Plank, Bach, Beethoven, every man who walked on the moon, etc etc were hindered at rational critical thought?

Let's start with 1 - You choose to believe in a Magic-Man-in-the-Sky for which there is literally no objective evidence whatsoever, and follow a book that is objectively unreliable. That is the very definition of denying rational, critical thought. And in answer to your question, yes, everyone of them eschewed reason for magical thinking. And Einstein was an atheist, thank you very much!

Faith is literally, the encouragement to deny reason, and rational thought.

Faith - firm belief in something for which there is no proof. That is denial of rational, critical thought.

Just as every astronaut who walked on the moon says, they see more than enough proof that Jesus is the Son of God.
You either lack the intellect to recognize it or you refuse to recognize it.

And what proof is that? Because it can't....ya know what? I'm just gonna leave it there, and let you hang yourself. And what "proof" is that?