What is accomplished by prayer?

[Czernobog]

I was specifically asking what God does when you pray for "God" to "guide the surgeon's hands" if that surgeon is not a believe3r, and you replied:

That I leave to God. Whether a believer or not, does the surgeon want to do his best? Is his spirit willing to do his best? Do you think God loves disbelievers any less?

Perhaps you might explain what the surgeon "doing his best" has to do with "God guiding his hands".

Keep in mind it is you who keeps apparently imagining God moving the surgeon's hands. I specifically said God does not move the surgeon's hands, that as spirit, God works with our spirit. The surgeon is not just a "pair of hands" but an entire being consisting of body, mind, and spirit. So why do you keep bringing up the physical part of the man? Without a mind and spirit, could hands perform surgery?

Because these are the kinds of prayers that I want someone to explain. These are the prayers that I want to know that they accomplish.

"God guide the surgeons hands..."
"Lord soften the interviewers heart, that I may get this job..."
"God destroy the demon cancer in my mother..."

Whenever questioned about the efficacy of prayer, all I get is pseudo-psycho-babbble about peace of mind, and calming, and getting hope. But, the types of prayer that I am asking about - the kind of prayer that the above are examples of - have nothing to do with inner anything. They are specifically prayers for God's direct engagement in a situation. I want to know if any of you theists actually believe that this is possible, and why. And, if not, then why pray such prayers. And please don't tell me that Christians don't really pray these kinds of prayers, because I know better. I was involved in just these kinds of prayers when I was a Christian. I also know that I, foolishly, did believe that those kind of prayers would induce direct divine intervention.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Agreed. His constant harping about Christianity shows deep down he knows it’s true.

Now, see? I haven't harped about anything. I asked a perfectly reasonable question. If you're just here to troll, feel free to fuck off.

99% of your posts are on Christianity. Don’t feel bad about your struggle. Continue to seek the truth and you too can live a happy Christian life.

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Well, not much, because you still get to enjoy the benefits of all of the science you deny.

 

[Meriweather]

Because these are the kinds of prayers that I want someone to explain. These are the prayers that I want to know that they accomplish.

"God guide the surgeons hands..."
"Lord soften the interviewers heart, that I may get this job..."
"God destroy the demon cancer in my mother..."

Whenever questioned about the efficacy of prayer, all I get is pseudo-psycho-babbble about peace of mind, and calming, and getting hope. But, the types of prayer that I am asking about - the kind of prayer that the above are examples of - have nothing to do with inner anything. They are specifically prayers for God's direct engagement in a situation. I want to know if any of you theists actually believe that this is possible, and why. And, if not, then why pray such prayers. And please don't tell me that Christians don't really pray these kinds of prayers, because I know better. I was involved in just these kinds of prayers when I was a Christian. I also know that I, foolishly, did believe that those kind of prayers would induce direct divine intervention.

You are asking about Genii "prayers". When I was three I prayed for a sore throat to go away. At that age I learned whatever prayer is, it is not a Get Out of Illness Free card. So, if a toddler can figure out asking something like that is like asking your parents for chocolate cake for breakfast, it shouldn't be that hard for an adult. Breakfast isn't about chocolate cake and prayer isn't about magic.

What I learned is that prayer is about growing spiritually and getting to know God. If He didn't go around curing sore throats and moving mountains in Nevada for little ones, what did He do? He works with people who are open to it, to become the best version of themselves it is possible to be. He strengthens spirits. He is able to take something bad, and ultimately create goodness from it.

 

[Czernobog]

Because these are the kinds of prayers that I want someone to explain. These are the prayers that I want to know that they accomplish.

"God guide the surgeons hands..."
"Lord soften the interviewers heart, that I may get this job..."
"God destroy the demon cancer in my mother..."

Whenever questioned about the efficacy of prayer, all I get is pseudo-psycho-babbble about peace of mind, and calming, and getting hope. But, the types of prayer that I am asking about - the kind of prayer that the above are examples of - have nothing to do with inner anything. They are specifically prayers for God's direct engagement in a situation. I want to know if any of you theists actually believe that this is possible, and why. And, if not, then why pray such prayers. And please don't tell me that Christians don't really pray these kinds of prayers, because I know better. I was involved in just these kinds of prayers when I was a Christian. I also know that I, foolishly, did believe that those kind of prayers would induce direct divine intervention.

You are asking about Genii "prayers". When I was three I prayed for a sore throat to go away. At that age I learned whatever prayer is, it is not a Get Out of Illness Free card. So, if a toddler can figure out asking something like that is like asking your parents for chocolate cake for breakfast, it shouldn't be that hard for an adult. Breakfast isn't about chocolate cake and prayer isn't about magic.

What I learned is that prayer is about growing spiritually and getting to know God. If He didn't go around curing sore throats and moving mountains in Nevada for little ones, what did He do? He works with people who are open to it, to become the best version of themselves it is possible to be. He strengthens spirits. He is able to take something bad, and ultimately create goodness from it.

So...just to make sure I understand...you are saying that the countless number of Christians that pray these types of prayers, and are taught by their churches that such prayer makes a difference, are wasting their time, and being led into irrational behaviour by their respective churches?

 

[Meriweather]

So...just to make sure I understand...you are saying that the countless number of Christians that pray these types of prayers, and are taught by their churches that such prayer makes a difference, are wasting their time, and being led into irrational behaviour by their respective churches?

I am saying prayer works through the spirit. Can a healthy spirit sometimes effect physical health? I believe so. It is also possible that often physical health is what it is. A healthy spirit can help our physical well being, but it can't always overcome physical ailments. If it could, we would have people regrowing amputated limbs.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Now, see? I haven't harped about anything. I asked a perfectly reasonable question. If you're just here to troll, feel free to fuck off.

99% of your posts are on Christianity. Don’t feel bad about your struggle. Continue to seek the truth and you too can live a happy Christian life.

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Well, not much, because you still get to enjoy the benefits of all of the science you deny.

Well, not much, because you still get to enjoy the benefits of all of the science you deny.

Says the moron who claims people can change sex upon a whim.

 

[Weatherman2020]

Agreed. His constant harping about Christianity shows deep down he knows it’s true.

Now, see? I haven't harped about anything. I asked a perfectly reasonable question. If you're just here to troll, feel free to fuck off.

99% of your posts are on Christianity. Don’t feel bad about your struggle. Continue to seek the truth and you too can live a happy Christian life.

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

99% of your posts are on Christianity. Don’t feel bad about your struggle. Continue to seek the truth and you too can live a happy Christian life.

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Well, not much, because you still get to enjoy the benefits of all of the science you deny.

Well, not much, because you still get to enjoy the benefits of all of the science you deny.

Says the moron who claims people can change sex upon a whim.

Never said that....another shameless lie from you....

 

[Weatherman2020]

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Well, not much, because you still get to enjoy the benefits of all of the science you deny.

Well, not much, because you still get to enjoy the benefits of all of the science you deny.

Says the moron who claims people can change sex upon a whim.

Never said that....another shameless lie from you....

Calling a male "she" certainly qualifies.

 

[Czernobog]

So...just to make sure I understand...you are saying that the countless number of Christians that pray these types of prayers, and are taught by their churches that such prayer makes a difference, are wasting their time, and being led into irrational behaviour by their respective churches?

I am saying prayer works through the spirit. Can a healthy spirit sometimes effect physical health? I believe so. It is also possible that often physical health is what it is. A healthy spirit can help our physical well being, but it can't always overcome physical ailments. If it could, we would have people regrowing amputated limbs.

That's a cop out and you know it. The prayers of the type I specifically gave examples were not prayers for "general healing". They were prayers for direct action from God. Quite skirting the question.

 

[tycho1572]

Prayer encompasses a personal belief in God that helps many through tough times.
It’s not something we should be questioning or degenerating.

 

[Fort Fun Indiana]

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Well, not much, because you still get to enjoy the benefits of all of the science you deny.

Well, not much, because you still get to enjoy the benefits of all of the science you deny.

Says the moron who claims people can change sex upon a whim.

Never said that....another shameless lie from you....

Calling a male "she" certainly qualifies.

No, that merely changes a pronoun to reflect how a person identifies. Your neurosis is yours, not ours.

 

[Czernobog]

Now, see? I haven't harped about anything. I asked a perfectly reasonable question. If you're just here to troll, feel free to fuck off.

99% of your posts are on Christianity. Don’t feel bad about your struggle. Continue to seek the truth and you too can live a happy Christian life.

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

 

[tycho1572]

People who believe in God will pray. People who don’t will never understand.

 

[Czernobog]

Prayer encompasses a personal belief in God that helps many through tough times.
It’s not something we should be questioning or degenerating.

I categorically disagree. First of all, "Prayer encompasses a personal belief in God..." in no way answers the question asked. Second, I will never agree that the wilful disregard of reason, and logic (faith) is ever a positive thing.

 

[Weatherman2020]

99% of your posts are on Christianity. Don’t feel bad about your struggle. Continue to seek the truth and you too can live a happy Christian life.

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

Let's start at 1.
1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.

I made my wealth on engineering, and hold a US Patent.
But let's let that ride for a moment.
Kepler, Galilei, Bacon, Pascal, Newton, Faraday, Boyle, Collins, Kelvin, Einstein, Plank, Bach, Beethoven, every man who walked on the moon, etc etc were hindered at rational critical thought?

 

[Czernobog]

People who believe in God will pray. People who don’t will never understand.

You are literally saying that there is no rational, reasonable purpose for prayer. If there were, you should be able to express that to anyone, Christian, or not.

 

[Czernobog]

He obviously feels terribly guilty about something, like the other obsessed Xian bashers seem to.

Yeah. That's what it is. LOL

ON EDIT: Actually, upon reflection, you're right. I do feel a bit guilty about something: I feel guilty about all of those poor intelligent people that I convinced to ignore their reason, and logic when I was one of the brainwashed, and led them into a life of ignorant sheep following. I do feel a little guilty about that. Unfortunately, there is little I can do about that. All I can do know, is do my best to rescue as many as I can from that wilful rejection of logic and reason.

Please, by all means tell me what I have lost as a "brainwashed sheep". I keep asking that question to you haters but you haters never answer it.

Yet another thread where the haters proudly proclaim Christianity is so bad for people yet refuse to name even one negative impact. Czernobog being the latest hater to runaway and refuse to back up their claims.

Really? how about this list of things that Christianity has done, and continues to do to harm society:

1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.
2. Vilification of homosexuality, resulting in discrimination, parents disowning their children, murder, and suicide.
3. Women treated like second-class citizens based on religious teachings.
4. Children growing up to hate and fear science and scientists, because science disproves their parents’ religion – leading to appalling scientific illiteracy.
5. Tens of thousands tortured and killed as witches (a practice which still continues today).
6. People aren’t making the most of this life because of their belief in an afterlife.
7. People dying because they believe their faith makes them immune to snake venom, or other lethal aspects of reality.
8. People dying – and letting their children die – because their religion forbids accepting medical help.
9. People choked, starved, poisoned, or beaten to death during exorcisms.
10. Genital mutilation of babies endorsed by religious texts.
11. Psychological and physiological conditions blamed on demons, preventing believers from seeking medical care for themselves and their children.
12. People disowning family members for leaving their religion.
13. Friendships and romances severed or never started over religious differences.
14. “Abstinence-only” sex education, resulting in five times the amount sexually transmitted diseases and teenage pregnancies – often leading to ill-fated “emergency” marriages.
15. Women having septic abortions—or being forced to have unwanted children they resent—because religious organizations have gotten laws passed making abortion illegal or inaccessible.
16. Censorship (often destructive) of speech, art, books, music, films, poetry, songs and, if possible, thought.
17. The demonization of other religions, e.g. Christianity demonizing Pagans (“They’re devil-worshipers!”)
18. Children spending the period of their lives when the brain is most receptive to learning new information reading, rereading, and even memorizing religious texts.
19. People who believe the world is about to end neglect their education, are not financially responsible, and in extreme cases take part in mass suicides.
20. Long-term environmental issues ignored because of beliefs that the rapture/apocalypse or something will happen soon, so they don’t matter.
21. Wives told they will be tortured forever if they leave their abusive husbands (and vice versa).
22. Holy wars – followers of different faiths (or even the same faith) killing each other in the name of their (benevolent, loving and merciful) gods.
23. The destruction of great works of art considered to be pornographic/blasphemous, and the persecution of the artists.
24. Slavery condoned by religious texts.
25. Children traumatized by vivid stories of eternal burning and torture to ensure that they’ll be too frightened to even question religion.
26. Terminal patients in constant agony who would end their lives if they didn’t believe it would result in eternal torture.
27. School boards having to spend time and money and resources on the fight to have evolution taught in the schools.
28. Persecution of “heretics”/scientists, like Giordano Bruno (burned at the stake) and Galileo Galilei.
29. Blue laws forcing other businesses to stay closed or limit sales, while churches can generate more revenue.
30. Mayors, senators, and presidents voted into office not because they’re right for the job, but because of their religious beliefs.
31. Abuse of power, authority and trust by religious leaders (for financial gain or sexual abuse of followers and even children).
32. People accepting visual and auditory hallucinations unquestioningly as divine, sometimes with fatal results.
33. Discrimination against atheists, such as laws stating they may not hold public office or testify in court, or in half a dozen countries around the world, laws requiring their execution
34. Missionaries destroying/converting smaller, “heathen” religions and cultures.
35. Hardship compounded by the guilt required to reconcile the idea of a fair god with reality (“why is God punishing me? What have I done wrong? Don’t I have enough faith?”).
36. Human achievements—from skillful surgery to to emergency landings—attributed to gods instead of to the people actually responsible.
37. Mother Teresa, prolonging the agony of terminal patients and denying them pain relief, so she can offer their suffering as a gift to her god.
38. Tens of billions annually in the US alone spent to build, maintain, and staff houses of worship.
39. Grief and horror caused by the belief that dead friends and family members are tortured as punishment for disbelief.
40. Natural disasters and other tragedies used to claim God is displeased and present demands to avoid similar events (it’s like terrorism, but without having to plan or do anything).

But, you know...Christianity has never done any harm...

Now, here comes the response: "But you are ignoring all of the good that Christianity has done!"

In ...3 ...2 ...1 ...

Let's start at 1.
1. The discouragement of rational, critical thought.

I made my wealth on engineering, and hold a US Patent.
But let's let that ride for a moment.
Kepler, Galilei, Bacon, Pascal, Newton, Faraday, Boyle, Collins, Kelvin, Einstein, Plank, Bach, Beethoven, every man who walked on the moon, etc etc were hindered at rational critical thought?

Let's start with 1 - You choose to believe in a Magic-Man-in-the-Sky for which there is literally no objective evidence whatsoever, and follow a book that is objectively unreliable. That is the very definition of denying rational, critical thought. And in answer to your question, yes, everyone of them eschewed reason for magical thinking. And Einstein was an atheist, thank you very much!

Faith is literally, the encouragement to deny reason, and rational thought.

Faith - firm belief in something for which there is no proof. That is denial of rational, critical thought.

 

[tycho1572]

Prayer encompasses a personal belief in God that helps many through tough times.
It’s not something we should be questioning or degenerating.

I categorically disagree. First of all, "Prayer encompasses a personal belief in God..." in no way answers the question asked. Second, I will never agree that the wilful disregard of reason, and logic (faith) is ever a positive thing.

You're questioning others beliefs. That’s something you shouldn’t be doing because it’s personal to them.

People pray for various reasons. You seem to be having a problem with that.

 

[Czernobog]

Prayer encompasses a personal belief in God that helps many through tough times.
It’s not something we should be questioning or degenerating.

I categorically disagree. First of all, "Prayer encompasses a personal belief in God..." in no way answers the question asked. Second, I will never agree that the wilful disregard of reason, and logic (faith) is ever a positive thing.

You're questioning others beliefs. That’s something you shouldn’t be doing because it’s personal to them.

Says who? Everyone has a right to their beliefs. There is nothing that says that right comes with a guarantee that you need not defend it.