What is communism, can we separate it from the horrors of Stalin & what about capitalism's crimes?!

[Edgetho]

Im not sure i could even agree stalin was a communist. Seems like more of a socialist dictator. A tyrant.

communism is what remains after socialist government 'withers away'.

Marx himself predicted the fall of the Soviet system when he warned that countries MUST go through a period of Capitalism before turning to socialism (Collective ownership of the means of production) and then to communism -- Where there is no government at all.

I'd wager a lot that most dimocrap scum in here don't even know what 'soviet' is.

It is a 'Workers Council'. The kind that is supposed to supplant government.

The problem with dimocrap scum is -- They're simply stupid. They haven't got a clue what they're talking about.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

I would humbly submit that just because a utopia isn't possible, doesn't mean we need to sleepwalk into a blade runner style dystopia wirher- which is frankly where capitalism seems to be taking us right now.

Do tell!!

 

[bendog]

Capitalism's crimes?

I hate agreeing with you (-: but I too would need more information on what crimes are inherently caused by capitalism. However, our view of capitalism is that it goes hand in hand with individual rights legitmate govts only govern with the consent of the governed. That is not true world wide.

 

[Edgetho]

Capitalism's crimes?

I hate agreeing with you (-: but I too would need more information on what crimes are inherently caused by capitalism. However, our view of capitalism is that it goes hand in hand with individual rights legitmate govts only govern with the consent of the governed. That is not true world wide.

China's economic system is State Directed Capitalism.

A first in History.

But it's still a BIG improvement over Mao's communism. In fact, HELL is a big improvement over communism. At least, in Hell, you're dead

 

[g5000]

I would humbly submit that just because a utopia isn't possible, doesn't mean we need to sleepwalk into a blade runner style dystopia wirher- which is frankly where capitalism seems to be taking us right now.

You might want to ask yourself why every country which espouses communism invariably descends into a mass murdering nightmare.

So, no. You cannot separate the horrors of Lenin or Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot or Castro or Ceaușescu from communism.

 

[Norman]

I would humbly submit that just because a utopia isn't possible, doesn't mean we need to sleepwalk into a blade runner style dystopia wirher- which is frankly where capitalism seems to be taking us right now.

Utopia isn't possible...

But a massacre like you have never seen is very possible.

Just move to Venezuela, it should be the closest thing to utopia by your standard.

 

[Norman]

Capitalism's crimes?

He may be conflating his crime of unbearable anti-Americanism to that of capitalism.

 

[bendog]

What is communism, can we separate it from the horrors of Stalin

Of course, and so we should. Stalin is to communism as tires are to raspberries. The tire could run over them but that doesn't mean they're related.

Simplified, communism is a system where the collective rather than the individual, owns the joint. There are various intentional communities and Christian sects that have been living that way for centuries, in complete peace. A philosophy that addresses the "deadly sin" of Greed.

Only a profound idiot would believe that communism could actually be made to work.

You're ignorant if you believe the Mennonites and Quakers practice communism. They have privately owned farms and observe the institution of private property.

And you're an ignorant twat since I said nothing about "Mennonites" or "Quakers". Only a profound idiot would plug in terms that weren't even there.

The Hutterites however have been doing it for five hundred years. And have never fought in anybody's war --- which is why they've had to pull up roots over and over and migrate. Including from here, when a couple were tortured by the US Army and died at Leavenworth.

I think we still have some Hutterites settlements here in the US, but yeah they were persecuted in the first world war. Wilson's abandonment of his own liberal constituency may have helped end the progressive era.

But yeah, capitalism is not always tied to individual rights, and socialism is not always hostile to individual rights.

 

[Siete]

Trump paid more compliments to a F'N commie dictator than he did to our own government ...

F TRUMP

 

[Edgetho]

Trump paid more compliments to a F'N commie dictator than he did to our own government ...

F TRUMP

Compliments are just words, you blithering fucking moron.

Should we dare Putin to launch his Nukes at us? douche

Should we get involved in a Land War in Asia with the Russians?

Should we let the Russians go through Europe like grease through a Goose? (oh yes, they can)

Should we alienate a possible ally in our coming difficulties with China?

dimocraps are just stupid little children

 

[g5000]

Trump paid more compliments to a F'N commie dictator than he did to our own government ...

F TRUMP

Compliments are just words, you blithering fucking moron.

Should we dare Putin to launch his Nukes at us? douche

Should we get involved in a Land War in Asia with the Russians?

Should we let the Russians go through Europe like grease through a Goose? (oh yes, they can)

Should we alienate a possible ally in our coming difficulties with China?

dimocraps are just stupid little children

Fallacy of the excluded middle.

You sound like an appeaser. The same kind of liberal faggot appeasers who shrieked when Reagan called Russia an Evil Empire.

So fuck Trump. He should have bitch slapped the fucking commie KGB thug in public. Instead, he deepthroated Putin's cock like a fluffer.

 

[bendog]

I would humbly submit that just because a utopia isn't possible, doesn't mean we need to sleepwalk into a blade runner style dystopia wirher- which is frankly where capitalism seems to be taking us right now.

You might want to ask yourself why every country which espouses communism invariably descends into a mass murdering nightmare.

So, no. You cannot separate the horrors of Lenin or Stalin or Mao or Pol Pot or Castro or Ceaușescu from communism.

Communism itself is based upon a view that humans would evolve into a classless society where, in theory, govt would be unnecessary. Hence, Orwell's observation that all animals are equal but some are more equal than others.

However, I'm not sure that is true for all social collectives where participation is purely voluntary.

 

[basquebromance]

its true that Stalin transformed the land of the revolution into a police state, he was truly convinced that the USSR would not reach communism without passing through the socialism of concentration camps.

but as one of the witnesses points out, when the authorities find it useful to tell the truth, they cant find any better lie. immediately, this truth, coming from official mouths, becomes a lie corroborated by the facts.

Stalin was a wicked man? Fine. But how had Soviet society perched him on the throne and kept him there for a quarter of a century.

 

[bendog]

Trump paid more compliments to a F'N commie dictator than he did to our own government ...

F TRUMP

Compliments are just words, you blithering fucking moron.

Should we dare Putin to launch his Nukes at us? douche

Should we get involved in a Land War in Asia with the Russians?

Should we let the Russians go through Europe like grease through a Goose? (oh yes, they can)

Should we alienate a possible ally in our coming difficulties with China?

dimocraps are just stupid little children

Fallacy of the excluded middle.

You sound like an appeaser. The same kind of liberal faggot appeasers who shrieked when Reagan called Russia an Evil Empire.

So fuck Trump. He should have bitch slapped the fucking commie KGB thug in public. Instead, he deepthroated Putin's cock like a fluffer.

That is Putinism in a nutshell. There is no right of private property that is free from arbitrary state appropriation for the benefit of the political elite. At it's heart, it's really no different from Leninism.

China by the admission of the communist party is an evolving state. It functions by the consent of the governed, although individual rights to free speech and even religion are not respected. The communist party sees personal corruption as a direct threat to its claim to power.

 

[Edgetho]

Fallacy of the excluded middle.

You sound like an appeaser. The same kind of liberal faggot appeasers who shrieked when Reagan called Russia an Evil Empire.

So fuck Trump. He should have bitch slapped the fucking commie KGB thug in public. Instead, he deepthroated Putin's cock like a fluffer.

Fuck your informal logic fallacies.

Here's some facts for, you jerkoff.

France, the most powerful Country in Europe, has 12 towed Artillery pieces and 406 tanks.

Germany has, 178,000 Soldiers in Uniform, exactly ZERO towed Artillery pieces and 432 tanks.

Aircraft? Combined the two Countries have fewer than 400 Fighters.

The Russians? 818 Fighter Jets and more importantly, 1,400 Attack Aircraft.

Tanks? 20,300!!!!!!

Towed Artillery? 4,466!!!!!!

You talk shit like every other dimocrap scumbag in here but I know one thing about dimocrap scum -- When the shit hits the fan, you'll run and hide.

You'll blame something or someone as an excuse, but you'll hide.

Here's a dose of reality for you -- Check it out. But don't let it get in the way of your delusional fantasies

2018 Military Strength Ranking

 

[basquebromance]

the Krushev era was the last period of authentic communist enthusiasm, of belief in the communist project. ahhh, simpler times!

 

[basquebromance]

your grandchildren will be communists

Capitalism's crimes?

 

[basquebromance]

Capitalism's crimes?

hedonism is a crime, yes

 

[g5000]

Fallacy of the excluded middle.

You sound like an appeaser. The same kind of liberal faggot appeasers who shrieked when Reagan called Russia an Evil Empire.

So fuck Trump. He should have bitch slapped the fucking commie KGB thug in public. Instead, he deepthroated Putin's cock like a fluffer.

Fuck your informal logic fallacies.

I understand, appeaser. You Trumpies abhor logic and critical thinking.

Seriously. You sound exactly like the liberal appeasers of the 80s, bowing down and worshipping the Soviet Baal.

Russia is a Third World country. They could not possibly stand up to us. They would implode just like they did last time.

Grow a fucking spine.

 

[bendog]

its true that Stalin transformed the land of the revolution into a police state, he was truly convinced that the USSR would not reach communism without passing through the socialism of concentration camps.

but as one of the witnesses points out, when the authorities find it useful to tell the truth, they cant find any better lie. immediately, this truth, coming from official mouths, becomes a lie corroborated by the facts.

Stalin was a wicked man? Fine. But how had Soviet society perched him on the throne and kept him there for a quarter of a century.

Imo, you're asking two separate questions. I was told "Marx may have been a hell of an economist, but he was a shitty judge of human nature." That is, the notion that a classless society can just evolve where the entire society lives as from each according to his means and to each according to his needs is never going to happen. It is human nature that "some animals" will seek to be more equal than others. Consequently, communism will always devolve into a totalitarian torture state with govt based upon terror, as G5000 said.

How did soviet society perch the terror state on the throne for a century, and why did it only fall when it's vassal states like Poland and Czechoslovakia gained the military power to leave? The best book I've read in the last 35 years or so is the most recent translation of Master and Margarita, and I think the answer to the question is just what is deeply rooted in Russian society. A willingness to be dependent that is so strong, people will give up anything