What is the republican solution to ending mass shootings? Why don’t they ever offer solutions?

[2aguy]

You are living in some sort of alternate reality that most don't live in or experience, so you might want to consider that before trying to speak on behalf of millions of American's. Just sayin.

Get out and experience life... Go fishing, hunting, eat some BBQ, and get some friends who might help you to experience life in such ways. So many are trapped in their lives not knowing anything but the things in which they know, and they think that it is the only things they should know, and therefore they try to create in the mind that to be accepted in all sectors of life, then they must configure and control those sectors to their liking or rather destroy them if they don't like them. It is the ultimate mental disorder, but they don't realize it.

What we have done around here is to remove the cult of the AR. Yes, you can still buy one if you want. In fact, the prices have dropped dramatically since they are just gathering dust in the Racks in the Gun Shops. I saw a MP-15 SW that retails for 599 on sale for 399 and it still won't sell. Those that already bought them don't need any more and there aren't any new buyers that want them. 6 years ago, they were flying off the shelves at full retail. The fear that is still tried today of "They are coming for your guns" doesn't work anymore. But the other types of real hunting rifles have gone up so people are still buying firearms. Just not the ARs. The Cult has been broken up which was made to grow due to fears artificially generated and have since been debunked. But there are some areas that the fear continues and the AR is still selling like hotcakes. For 599 I can get a conventional semi auto hunting rifle that is traditional in design and is just down right gorgeous. Something can be said about exotic woods over plastic. While it's perfectly legal to walk down the street with your Favorite AR, it's extremely frowned upon. You will find yourself friendless in a matter of minutes.

As long as the Cult of the AR exists though it will be the weapon of choice of the Mass Murderers. Yes, other weapons can do the job just not as efficient. You can claim that the AR was designed as a varmint rifle but I think we all know it was designed for combat and also can be used for Varmints. Then again, the other semi auto rifles also can be used for combat but they were originally designed as varmint rifles and do varmint hunting better and are more pleasing to the eyes. At a shoot, you will ocassionaly see an AR but no one is giving it much thought except for a very small group. But if someone shows up with a full dress Varmint Weatherby, that will draw quite a crowd. This is why some of the shooters say if you show up to a shootoff with just an AR you will be laughed right out of there. We broke the cult. You don't have to confiscate the ARs, just break the cult and they will slowly disappear into history from whence they came.

To give you an idea, Smith and Wessons MP-15 was their primary production rifle for about 9 years. Last year, they were hurting so bad that they were talking about Chapter 11. It seems the MP-15 market all but dried up. They produced like there was a Cult in every town. Now, the MP-15 is gathering dust on store shelves and SW can't justify producing many more. Yes, one person in here claims to be a Gun Shop Owner and sales have never been better. He claims to make at least one sale of the MP-15 a month. AFter seeing his posts, He may or may not be a Gun Shop Owner but that low of sales won't keep the doors open. In a retail market, if you aren't doing at least 600 bucks a day, shut the store down and find a job. Because 600 bucks a day is only about 200 a day gross profit. AFter expenses, you might have 50 bucks left. And 50 bucks a day means you will probably be on some form of Public Assistance. And I don't get out of bed for 50 bucks a day. That's about 8 bucks an hour gross pay.

I am also seeing Gun Dealer Shops closing their doors around here. We used to have a bunch of them including the Pawn Shops. Even the Pawn Shops are starting to close down. Well, those that have most of their money in Guns. These cropped up right after 1998 when the AR ban was lifted. But, hey, it's been a fun 10 year ride but it's come to an end.

As I said, you don't have to completely ban the AR, just do the common sense firearms regulations and the AR dies a slow death like it has. It's taken about 5 years to get it that way. So when I see a gun crazy go off about how I am coming for his AR and people should buy more, that is the tired old scare tactic that worked so well but it was seen as a con in the last 2 years.

You can do anything you can with an AR 15 with any other semiautomatic .223

The 223/556 was invented for the AR-15 Model 601 and the round was designed not to kill but to wound. I know you know nothing about combat but it takes extra personnel to care and transport a wounded than it does a dead body. The Dead can wait until after the battle concludes. The wounded can't.

But if you get close enough, it can kill or wound with the best of them if you fire enough rounds. That means the round was thought to be well suited for combat but not as a long ranged varmint round. That thought is changing in the Military who are looking at upgrading probably to a 6.8 caliber with composite casings that kill very efficiently and can effectively go out past 400 yds which is the absolute range maximum for a 223 to do any actual damage and not start succumbing to the elements (drift).

So stop with the sales pitch trying to sell those ARs you have that you can only sell one a month. You'll sink your money into better inventory and eat much more steady.

then you should be happy mass shooters like the .223 since it wasn't designed to kill. Just think of the death toll if mass shooters used 6.8 or 7.62 rounds

and a .223 kills rabid skunks, raccoons and coyotes just fine thank you very much

School is in
Think about what you have just said. Let's look at the 6.8. It's about the same length but a bigger diameter in both bullet and cartridge. The cartridge is made up of a very light and strong composite. The weight is less than the 556 or 223 so you don't add weight. It's being designed for WAR just like the 556 was designed for war. It just does it a bit better at a longer range. So you don't give up the amount of ammo you can carry but have a more effective weapon of war.

They replaced the M-14 with the M-16 because the weight of the gun and the weight of the ammo. The M-14 was far superior in a firefight but you ran out of ammo too fast. The 7.62 or 308 is the far superior cartridge but it's heavy in comparison therefore you can't carry as many rounds. Plus, due to the power of the cartridge, the gun has to be larger and heavier. You wouldn't know this because you haven't spent 16 hours force marching from point A to B with 80lbs of other equipment on your back. Every ounce saved.......

Now, about the 223, most school shootings are done close up. The 223 will kill larger game (meaning us) easily at close range. And since you have so many rounds, don't worry about wasting it. Even if the aftermath looks like a battle zone, it's not. You have ammo to burn. Before you run out of ammo you will run out of time and you only have a few minutes to operate until the Cops take you out or you put the muzzle in your mouth. And most shooters are part of the AR Cult. No dues, no memberships just insanity. You are part of that AR Cult. the only difference is, you don't have the guts to go out and do a mass shooting yourself in the name of the Revolution. The only reason that Vegas Shooting had such a high body count at that range was he through hundreds of rounds out very fast. It's like throwing a bunch of rocks at a wall full of balloons. Some will hit and most will miss but if you throw enough, you can burst almost all the balloons. This is the method of the Full Auto M-16 or the AR-15 with a bump stock. This has been abandoned by even the Military. But it's not ineffective when you have a target rich environment like a theater, school or Club. The 223 does exactly what it was originally invented to do at that point.

You are part of a cult. And the way to stop mass shootings is to outlaw the cult. Maybe we should handle it like any other violent cult and just start arresting the cult leaders.

You don't know what you are talking about, the majority of mass shootings are done with pistols......

 

[2aguy]

These mass shootings virtually always involve high- capacity rapid-fire weapons.
There is absolutely no rational reason an ordinary citizen (that is, excluding law-enforcement and military), needs to have such a lethal weapon.
The only reason an ordinary citizen needs a gun is for hunting or target shooting, and the remote possibility that he might need to defend his home at some point.
If you own a gun, you have a responsibility to maintain it, and your competence in handling it. Target shooting is very educational, and hunting is a thrill. Get them both, and you'll have a ball, and, with luck no-one will be killed accidentally in the process.
But, if you need an AR15, you should get a LOT of education, before you go hunting!

We have had semi automatic rifles, and pistols for well over 100 years....never a problem before. They are no more lethal than any other gun.

Parkland shooter used an AR-15 rifle and murdered 18. A shooter 2 weeks ago in Crimea used a 5 shot, pump action shotgun to murder 21 college students..... it isn't the gun, it is the target area, the fact that all the victims are unarmed, and that police response time allows the killer to kill.

An AR-15 is no different from any other semi automatic rifle. The same way an engine is a Toyota is no different than in a Ford.....they work the same way.

Yes, this is true. The weapon doesn't matter. Maybe the next mass killing will be carried out with a good ol' fashioned red ryder.

The only reason Sandy Hook was so bad was the fact he was murdering the youngest children in the school.....notice that he picked the smallest ones to murder, why? 1) of the schools in the area, Sandy Hook was the only one without a police liason officer, and 2) they were the smallest and most vulnerable.....as soon as he heard the sirens approaching......notice that....he heard the police sirens, he didn't wait for them to even enter the building, he committed suicide....

Had a member of the staff or a visiting parent had a legal firearm with them, he could have been stopped far sooner than the 5 minutes it took for the police to arrive.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

you have a 1 in 11000 chance of being killed in a mass shooting and a 1 in 3000 chance of being struck be lightning

you are worrying about the wrong things

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people who have been affected by these mass shootings...and yes...there are that many now

I really don't care.

People die every day.

------------------------------------------------- thats the thing as every day for all of history people have been living and dying but the lefty dems hone in on guns and try to disarms Americans . Dems just want disarmed Americans because they have EVIL plans after disarming Americans . off topic but concerning unexpected death
How many people just died in the Paradise fire [RiP] and that was just totally unexpected and a good example of people just up dying everyday .

And your Orange Leader spent a good part of a morning laying blame for it instead of looking that real problems that were partial.......

High Winds
Hot Temps
Dry tinder condition
Funds to the BLM and Forest Service cut

What you have is a dry tinder forest that has not had the underbrush removed like it should have complicated by old Mother nature itself and the severe changing of the weather patterns we have had in the last few years. And building homes too close to the fire corridors.

But if we believe your Orange Guru, it's the fault of the Forest Service, the Governor of California and the Democrats. You are saying exactly the same thing. You must have gotten the memo.

You can't discount the mentality of the people who live there either:

Opinion
This is a misplaced approach. Dead trees are vital components of the forest ecosystem and should be removed only when necessary. A dead tree near a home, power line or other infrastructure is downright dangerous, but there are not 129 million trees in this category.

Most are in remote areas, and removing them would be extremely costly and ecologically devastating. The black-backed woodpecker, northern fisher and northern spotted owl are among the species that rely on dead tree habitat.

Also, dead trees store carbon for decades. As they decompose, much of their carbon returns to the soil, where it is held for thousands of years. In a large-scale removal, all that carbon is disturbed. Worse, when conventional biomass incinerators are used, it immediately releases carbon and worsens air pollution.


Read more here: California needs smart solutions to dead trees

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

you have a 1 in 11000 chance of being killed in a mass shooting and a 1 in 3000 chance of being struck be lightning

you are worrying about the wrong things

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people who have been affected by these mass shootings...and yes...there are that many now

I really don't care.

People die every day.

------------------------------------------------- thats the thing as every day for all of history people have been living and dying but the lefty dems hone in on guns and try to disarms Americans . Dems just want disarmed Americans because they have EVIL plans after disarming Americans . off topic but concerning unexpected death
How many people just died in the Paradise fire [RiP] and that was just totally unexpected and a good example of people just up dying everyday .

Newsflash...reducing the number of assault weapons...or even magazine fed semi-auto weapons will NOT "disarm Americans".

No, but it will put them at a disadvantage of their attacker who will have magazine fed semi-automatic weapons.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

you have a 1 in 11000 chance of being killed in a mass shooting and a 1 in 3000 chance of being struck be lightning

you are worrying about the wrong things

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people who have been affected by these mass shootings...and yes...there are that many now

I really don't care.

People die every day.

------------------------------------------------- thats the thing as every day for all of history people have been living and dying but the lefty dems hone in on guns and try to disarms Americans . Dems just want disarmed Americans because they have EVIL plans after disarming Americans . off topic but concerning unexpected death
How many people just died in the Paradise fire [RiP] and that was just totally unexpected and a good example of people just up dying everyday .

Throughout the years the Democrats have promoted single-parent households, taking God out of society, and turning our prisons into lowlife playgrounds with the help of their liberal judges. Now that things are out of hand, they scratch their heads and say it must be the guns, even though we've had guns in our society for generations.

But you can never go backwards when you see a problem. No, no, no. That's why they are called progressives. Progressive means to move forward--never backward. Because even if things were better in those backwards days, it's better than admitting liberals contributed to our lack of morality or current problems we experience today.

 

[Lesh]

No, but it will put them at a disadvantage of their attacker who will have magazine fed semi-automatic weapons.

Nonsense.

If you get into that kind of gun battle with an assailant you're fucked anyway.

The chances of ever needing a gun to defend yourself are like being hit by lightning.

The chance of needing an assault weapon are near zero

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

you have a 1 in 11000 chance of being killed in a mass shooting and a 1 in 3000 chance of being struck be lightning

you are worrying about the wrong things

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people who have been affected by these mass shootings...and yes...there are that many now

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

No, but it will put them at a disadvantage of their attacker who will have magazine fed semi-automatic weapons.

Nonsense.

If you get into that kind of gun battle with an assailant you're fucked anyway.

The chances of ever needing a gun to defend yourself are like being hit by lightning.

The chance of needing an assault weapon are near zero

You didn't say assault weapon, you said semi-automatics with magazines.

 

[Lesh]

You didn't say assault weapon, you said semi-automatics with magazines.

Distinction without a difference

 

[Lesh]

you have a 1 in 11000 chance of being killed in a mass shooting and a 1 in 3000 chance of being struck be lightning

you are worrying about the wrong things

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people who have been affected by these mass shootings...and yes...there are that many now

Use your brain dipshit.

Every school shooting and every mass shooting event leaves hundreds...sometimes thousands of survivors.

Each one of those has other loved ones who were forced to consider the fact that they could have lost that loved ones to that horrific act.

Add the families of those killed and wounded and the numbers start to add up

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

You didn't say assault weapon, you said semi-automatics with magazines.

Distinction without a difference

Big difference because if you are in danger of an armed attacker, they are not attacking you with an assault weapon (whatever that may be). They will be using a semi-automatic magazine fed handgun. It's imperative you do the same to have a chance at killing or harming your attacker.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

you have a 1 in 11000 chance of being killed in a mass shooting and a 1 in 3000 chance of being struck be lightning

you are worrying about the wrong things

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people who have been affected by these mass shootings...and yes...there are that many now

Use your brain dipshit.

Every school shooting and every mass shooting event leaves hundreds...sometimes thousands of survivors.

Each one of those has other loved ones who were forced to consider the fact that they could have lost that loved ones to that horrific act.

Add the families of those killed and wounded and the numbers start to add up

Name me one mass shooting in the US that left thousands of survivors..........just one.

 

[Lesh]

Name me one mass shooting in the US that left thousands of survivors..........just one.

Vegas...moron

 

[Lesh]

Big difference because if you are in danger of an armed attacker, they are not attacking you with an assault weapon (whatever that may be). They will be using a semi-automatic magazine fed handgun. It's imperative you do the same to have a chance at killing or harming your attacker.

The chance of needing a gun to defend yourself are akin to getting hit by lightning.

The chance of that happening and a revolver not being sufficient are near zero.

If firing on an attacker doesn't end the attack (either by hitting him or scaring him off) you're pretty much fucked

 

[Daryl Hunt]

you have a 1 in 11000 chance of being killed in a mass shooting and a 1 in 3000 chance of being struck be lightning

you are worrying about the wrong things

Tell that to the hundreds of thousands of people who have been affected by these mass shootings...and yes...there are that many now

No...there aren't..... 2017,,117 people killed by mass shooters, 2016... 71.....people falling off ladders and dying...300, cars....38,000.

Mass shootings are rare, and created by gun free zones.

So the gun free zones create mass shootings. Wow, never occurred to me. That means if I want a mass shooting all I have to do is make a gun free zone and wait. Oh, here comes a mass shooter now.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

The chance of needing a gun to defend yourself are akin to getting hit by lightning.

The chance of that happening and a revolver not being sufficient are near zero.

And even less of being a victim of a mass shooting. But you act like it's a daily thing in every state the way you're carrying on.

I listen to our police scanner all the time. I know what goes on here. Don't you tell me what my odds are of needing a firearm until you walked in my shoes.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

These mass shootings virtually always involve high- capacity rapid-fire weapons.
There is absolutely no rational reason an ordinary citizen (that is, excluding law-enforcement and military), needs to have such a lethal weapon.
The only reason an ordinary citizen needs a gun is for hunting or target shooting, and the remote possibility that he might need to defend his home at some point.
If you own a gun, you have a responsibility to maintain it, and your competence in handling it. Target shooting is very educational, and hunting is a thrill. Get them both, and you'll have a ball, and, with luck no-one will be killed accidentally in the process.
But, if you need an AR15, you should get a LOT of education, before you go hunting!

Here...some actual research into magazines and mass shootings....

Large-Capacity Magazines and the Casualty Counts in Mass Shootings: The Plausibility of Linkages by Gary Kleck :: SSRN

Do bans on large-capacity magazines (LCMs) for semiautomatic firearms have significant potential for reducing the number of deaths and injuries in mass shootings?
The most common rationale for an effect of LCM use is that they allow mass killers to fire many rounds without reloading.


LCMs are used is less than 1/3 of 1% of mass shootings.


News accounts of 23 shootings in which more than six people were killed or wounded and LCMs were used, occurring in the U.S. in 1994-2013, were examined.

There was only one incident in which the shooter may have been stopped by bystander intervention when he tried to reload.

In all of these 23 incidents the shooter possessed either multiple guns or multiple magazines, meaning that the shooter, even if denied LCMs, could have continued firing without significant interruption by either switching loaded guns or by changing smaller loaded magazines with only a 2-4 second delay for each magazine change.


Finally, the data indicate that mass shooters maintain slow enough rates of fire such that the time needed to reload would not increase the time between shots and thus the time available for prospective victims to escape.

--------

We did not employ the oft-used definition of “mass murder” as a homicide in which four or more victims were killed, because most of these involve just four to six victims (Duwe 2007), which could therefore have involved as few as six rounds fired, a number that shooters using even ordinary revolvers are capable of firing without reloading.

LCMs obviously cannot help shooters who fire no more rounds than could be fired without LCMs, so the inclusion of “nonaffectable” cases with only four to six victims would dilute the sample, reducing the percent of sample incidents in which an LCM might have affected the number of casualties.

Further, had we studied only homicides with four or more dead victims, drawn from the FBI’s Supplementary Homicide Reports, we would have missed cases in which huge numbers of people were shot, and huge numbers of rounds were fired, but three or fewer of the victims died.


For example, in one widely publicized shooting carried out in Los Angeles on February 28, 1997, two bank robbers shot a total of 18 people - surely a mass shooting by any reasonable standard (Table 1).

Yet, because none of the people they shot died, this incident would not qualify as a mass murder (or even murder of any kind).

Exclusion of such incidents would bias the sample against the proposition that LCM use increases the number of victims by excluding incidents with large numbers of victims. We also excluded shootings in which more than six persons were shot over the entire course of the incident but shootings occurred in multiple locations with no more than six people shot in any one of the locations, and substantial periods of time intervened between episodes of shooting. An example is the series of killings committed by Rodrick Dantzler on July 7, 2011.

Once eligible incidents were identified, we searched through news accounts for details related to whether the use of LCMs could have influenced the casualty counts.

Specifically, we searched for

(1) the number of magazines in the shooter’s immediate possession,

(2) the capacity of the largest magazine,

(3) the number of guns in the shooter’s immediate possession during the incident,

(4) the types of guns possessed,

(5) whether the shooter reloaded during the incident,

(6) the number of rounds fired,

(7) the duration of the shooting from the first shot fired to the last, and (8) whether anyone intervened to stop the shooter.

Findings How Many Mass Shootings were Committed Using LCMs?

We identified 23 total incidents in which more than six people were shot at a single time and place in the U.S. from 1994 through 2013 and that were known to involve use of any magazines with capacities over ten rounds.


Table 1 summarizes key details of the LCMinvolved mass shootings relevant to the issues addressed in this paper.

(Table 1 about here) What fraction of all mass shootings involve LCMs?

There is no comprehensive listing of all mass shootings available for the entire 1994-2013 period, but the most extensive one currently available is at the Shootingtracker.com website, which only began its coverage in 2013.

-----


-----
The offenders in LCM-involved mass shootings were also known to have reloaded during 14 of the 23 (61%) incidents with magazine holding over 10 rounds.

The shooters were known to have not reloaded in another two of these 20 incidents and it could not be determined if they reloaded in the remaining seven incidents.

Thus, even if the shooters had been denied LCMs, we know that most of them definitely would have been able to reload smaller detachable magazines without interference from bystanders since they in fact did change magazines.

The fact that this percentage is less than 100% should not, however, be interpreted to mean that the shooters were unable to reload in the other nine incidents.

It is possible that the shooters could also have reloaded in many of these nine shootings, but chose not to do so, or did not need to do so in order to fire all the rounds they wanted to fire. This is consistent with the fact that there has been at most only one mass shootings in twenty years in which reloading a semiautomatic firearm might have been blocked by bystanders intervening and thereby stopping the shooter from doing all the shooting he wanted to do. All we know is that in two incidents the shooter did not reload, and news accounts of seven other incidents did not mention whether the offender reloaded.

----

For example, a story in the Hartford Courant about the Sandy Hook elementary school killings in 2012 was headlined “Shooter Paused, and Six Escaped,” the text asserting that as many as six children may have survived because the shooter paused to reload (December 23, 2012). ''

The author of the story, however, went on to concede that this was just a speculation by an unnamed source, and that it was also possible that some children simply escaped when the killer was shooting other children.

There was no reliable evidence that the pauses were due to the shooter reloading, rather than his guns jamming or the shooter simply choosing to pause his shooting while his gun was still loaded.

The plausibility of the “victims escape” rationale depends on the average rates of fire that shooters in mass shootings typically maintain.

If they fire very fast, the 2-4 seconds it takes to change box-type detachable magazines could produce a slowing of the rate of fire that the shooters otherwise would have maintained without the magazine changes, increasing the average time between rounds fired and potentially allowing more victims to escape during the betweenshot intervals.

On the other hand, if mass shooters fire their guns with the average interval between shots lasting more than 2-4 seconds, the pauses due to additional magazine changes would be no longer than the pauses the shooter typically took between shots even when not reloading.

In that case, there would be no more opportunity for potential victims to escape than there would have been without the additional magazine changes

-----


SAGE Journals: Your gateway to world-class journal research

In sum, in nearly all LCM-involved mass shootings, the time it takes to reload a detachable magazine is no greater than the average time between shots that the shooter takes anyway when not reloading.

Consequently, there is no affirmative evidence that reloading detachable magazines slows mass shooters’ rates of fire, and thus no affirmative evidence that the number of victims who could escape the killers due to additional pauses in the shooting is increased by the shooter’s need to change magazines.

You back to using Kleck as the source? He's the one that lumped all the shootings together including Cops and Military and came up with his figures. His math is crackpot. Your bunch has been using his information for all kinds of claims and those claims are just as much a crackpot as he is.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Name me one mass shooting in the US that left thousands of survivors..........just one.

Vegas...moron

No moron, it was less than a thousand, and it was the worst mass shooting in American history. It's not the norm.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

The chance of needing a gun to defend yourself are akin to getting hit by lightning.

The chance of that happening and a revolver not being sufficient are near zero.

And even less of being a victim of a mass shooting. But you act like it's a daily thing in every state the way you're carrying on.

I listen to our police scanner all the time. I know what goes on here. Don't you tell me what my odds are of needing a firearm until you walked in my shoes.

Your ballet shoes I think I will pass on. But my size 11 combat boots says I have walked in some pretty big shoes. And I don't feel the need to be armed at all times. The closest thing to a threat I can see is one neighbor that is alt-right and worships Trump and Guns. For him, I have guns in case he goes off. But I don't carry one when I go outside. It's a hassle to work in the shop wearing one considering if you are smart, you will even take off your watch and rings. It's a hassle working on the truck with that thing hooking on everything. And when I need to get parts, it's a hassle to go inside and put the gun on, better to just go get the parts and be done with it.

I'll say this again. If you fear for you or your families safety where you live maybe you should move to an area that you won't feel the need to have that fear. Unless you are the one that everyone else fears then you should just eat the muzzle.

 

[Daryl Hunt]

What we have done around here is to remove the cult of the AR. Yes, you can still buy one if you want. In fact, the prices have dropped dramatically since they are just gathering dust in the Racks in the Gun Shops. I saw a MP-15 SW that retails for 599 on sale for 399 and it still won't sell. Those that already bought them don't need any more and there aren't any new buyers that want them. 6 years ago, they were flying off the shelves at full retail. The fear that is still tried today of "They are coming for your guns" doesn't work anymore. But the other types of real hunting rifles have gone up so people are still buying firearms. Just not the ARs. The Cult has been broken up which was made to grow due to fears artificially generated and have since been debunked. But there are some areas that the fear continues and the AR is still selling like hotcakes. For 599 I can get a conventional semi auto hunting rifle that is traditional in design and is just down right gorgeous. Something can be said about exotic woods over plastic. While it's perfectly legal to walk down the street with your Favorite AR, it's extremely frowned upon. You will find yourself friendless in a matter of minutes.

As long as the Cult of the AR exists though it will be the weapon of choice of the Mass Murderers. Yes, other weapons can do the job just not as efficient. You can claim that the AR was designed as a varmint rifle but I think we all know it was designed for combat and also can be used for Varmints. Then again, the other semi auto rifles also can be used for combat but they were originally designed as varmint rifles and do varmint hunting better and are more pleasing to the eyes. At a shoot, you will ocassionaly see an AR but no one is giving it much thought except for a very small group. But if someone shows up with a full dress Varmint Weatherby, that will draw quite a crowd. This is why some of the shooters say if you show up to a shootoff with just an AR you will be laughed right out of there. We broke the cult. You don't have to confiscate the ARs, just break the cult and they will slowly disappear into history from whence they came.

To give you an idea, Smith and Wessons MP-15 was their primary production rifle for about 9 years. Last year, they were hurting so bad that they were talking about Chapter 11. It seems the MP-15 market all but dried up. They produced like there was a Cult in every town. Now, the MP-15 is gathering dust on store shelves and SW can't justify producing many more. Yes, one person in here claims to be a Gun Shop Owner and sales have never been better. He claims to make at least one sale of the MP-15 a month. AFter seeing his posts, He may or may not be a Gun Shop Owner but that low of sales won't keep the doors open. In a retail market, if you aren't doing at least 600 bucks a day, shut the store down and find a job. Because 600 bucks a day is only about 200 a day gross profit. AFter expenses, you might have 50 bucks left. And 50 bucks a day means you will probably be on some form of Public Assistance. And I don't get out of bed for 50 bucks a day. That's about 8 bucks an hour gross pay.

I am also seeing Gun Dealer Shops closing their doors around here. We used to have a bunch of them including the Pawn Shops. Even the Pawn Shops are starting to close down. Well, those that have most of their money in Guns. These cropped up right after 1998 when the AR ban was lifted. But, hey, it's been a fun 10 year ride but it's come to an end.

As I said, you don't have to completely ban the AR, just do the common sense firearms regulations and the AR dies a slow death like it has. It's taken about 5 years to get it that way. So when I see a gun crazy go off about how I am coming for his AR and people should buy more, that is the tired old scare tactic that worked so well but it was seen as a con in the last 2 years.

You can do anything you can with an AR 15 with any other semiautomatic .223

The 223/556 was invented for the AR-15 Model 601 and the round was designed not to kill but to wound. I know you know nothing about combat but it takes extra personnel to care and transport a wounded than it does a dead body. The Dead can wait until after the battle concludes. The wounded can't.

But if you get close enough, it can kill or wound with the best of them if you fire enough rounds. That means the round was thought to be well suited for combat but not as a long ranged varmint round. That thought is changing in the Military who are looking at upgrading probably to a 6.8 caliber with composite casings that kill very efficiently and can effectively go out past 400 yds which is the absolute range maximum for a 223 to do any actual damage and not start succumbing to the elements (drift).

So stop with the sales pitch trying to sell those ARs you have that you can only sell one a month. You'll sink your money into better inventory and eat much more steady.

then you should be happy mass shooters like the .223 since it wasn't designed to kill. Just think of the death toll if mass shooters used 6.8 or 7.62 rounds

and a .223 kills rabid skunks, raccoons and coyotes just fine thank you very much

School is in
Think about what you have just said. Let's look at the 6.8. It's about the same length but a bigger diameter in both bullet and cartridge. The cartridge is made up of a very light and strong composite. The weight is less than the 556 or 223 so you don't add weight. It's being designed for WAR just like the 556 was designed for war. It just does it a bit better at a longer range. So you don't give up the amount of ammo you can carry but have a more effective weapon of war.

They replaced the M-14 with the M-16 because the weight of the gun and the weight of the ammo. The M-14 was far superior in a firefight but you ran out of ammo too fast. The 7.62 or 308 is the far superior cartridge but it's heavy in comparison therefore you can't carry as many rounds. Plus, due to the power of the cartridge, the gun has to be larger and heavier. You wouldn't know this because you haven't spent 16 hours force marching from point A to B with 80lbs of other equipment on your back. Every ounce saved.......

Now, about the 223, most school shootings are done close up. The 223 will kill larger game (meaning us) easily at close range. And since you have so many rounds, don't worry about wasting it. Even if the aftermath looks like a battle zone, it's not. You have ammo to burn. Before you run out of ammo you will run out of time and you only have a few minutes to operate until the Cops take you out or you put the muzzle in your mouth. And most shooters are part of the AR Cult. No dues, no memberships just insanity. You are part of that AR Cult. the only difference is, you don't have the guts to go out and do a mass shooting yourself in the name of the Revolution. The only reason that Vegas Shooting had such a high body count at that range was he through hundreds of rounds out very fast. It's like throwing a bunch of rocks at a wall full of balloons. Some will hit and most will miss but if you throw enough, you can burst almost all the balloons. This is the method of the Full Auto M-16 or the AR-15 with a bump stock. This has been abandoned by even the Military. But it's not ineffective when you have a target rich environment like a theater, school or Club. The 223 does exactly what it was originally invented to do at that point.

You are part of a cult. And the way to stop mass shootings is to outlaw the cult. Maybe we should handle it like any other violent cult and just start arresting the cult leaders.

You don't know what you are talking about, the majority of mass shootings are done with pistols......

If I took the total deaths from "Mass Shootings" by pistols for the last 10 years, all of them would not equal even one that an AR was used. Most "Mass Shootings" by a pistol deaths you can count on one hand. For most of the "Mass Shootings" where they used an AR you are going to have to count on both hands, both feet and drop your pants for the count and still not have enough.