What is the U.S. goal in Ukraine?

[JohnDB]

GDP Data for Russia and Ukraine​

"Ukraine’s GDP was $155.5 billion USD at the end of 2020, while Russia’s GDP stood at $1.48 trillion.

"The annexation of Crimea in 2014 coupled with plummeting oil prices in 2014-2015 cut Ukraine’s GDP by over 50% from its all-time high in just two years.

"Though Russia’s economy is about ten times larger than Ukraine’s in terms of GDP, Ukraine’s GDP grew 70.8% from 2015 to 2020 while Russia’s advanced only 8.8% in that same time frame. Both economies have progressed in near-perfect correlation since 1989."

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/russia-vs.-ukraine:-an-economic-comparison

Russia GDP has fallen 20% YOY for the last two years in a row.

Russia is an irrelevant nation once this war is over. And Poland, China, and a few others are going to fight over the scraps.

 

[Soupnazi630]

The USA and NATO should have done that way before causing this ridiculous war - now they are simply adding everyday to the death toll and destruction.

They did not cause it.

Putin did

 

[georgephillip]

Russia GDP has fallen 20% YOY for the last two years in a row.

Russia is an irrelevant nation once this war is over. And Poland, China, and a few others are going to fight over the scraps.

"Compared to EU countries, Russia’s GDP trails behind just that of Germany, France, and Italy, while Ukraine’s GDP is greater than only Slovakia’s."

https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/russia-vs.-ukraine:-an-economic-comparison

Which country currently occupies 20% of its enemy's land mass?

The same country that's killing ten times as many fighters as its enemy.

Russia is slowly grinding Ukraine into dust in spite of the lies western propaganda is spewing.

When it's over Russia will be stronger and the US dollar will be a shell of what it once was.

Good riddance.

 

[The Sage of Main Street]

Ukraine appears to be another conflict where the only constructive US goal being pursued is monetary in nature.

Poland, however, may have a historically constructive project in mind regarding Ukraine:

"In the 1920s, Jozef Pilsudski had a project.

"This is the so-called Intermarium [between the seas].

"It’s an idea that has its origin in the 17th century principality of Poland and Lithuania.

"Today, it would be a matter of uniting the countries between the Baltic Sea, the Black Sea and the Mediterranean into one community. Those are the three seas.

"Pilsudski wanted to restore that.

"And about 15 years ago, at the beginning of the 2000s, Poland redefined the recreation of the Intermarium as a foreign policy goal.8

"In January, an agreement for cooperation between Lithuania, Poland and Ukraine was signed.9

"This corresponds to the first Lublin Triangle, which dates back to the 16th Century.

"It is an alliance that could be one of the first elements of this Intermarium that Poland wants to achieve."

Background and elements of the war in Ukraine | MR Online

Warsaw Pact Buffer Zone

I'm all for that, as long as they keep the U.S. and Western Europe out of it. Being overwhelmed by a richer alliance is all Putin is really worried about.

 

[TruthNotBS]

Aside from "making the world safe for democracy" or some similar claptrap, what is the specific goal of U.S.policy towards Ukrainian territory? Is it to restore Ukrainian sovereignty over its 2020 borders with Russia, or is it to restore its sovereignty over Crimea, which was "annexed" by Russia in 2014? Or are we simply giving a blank check to Ukranian President Zelinsky to do whatever he wants?

Destabilize the region, creating conflict on Russia's border. Threatening Russia with NATO, through a passive-aggressive campaign under the pretense of "defending liberal democracy" and facilitating the exercise of sovereignty by former Soviet satellite states. Creating a geopolitical, strategic "boogieman" threat for the US and EU, to further enrich the military-industrial complex, with weapons sales to Western governments. That was the purpose behind the Ukrainian Maidan coup in 2014 and all of the violence against Russo-Ukrainians and Crimea that followed. The Ukrainians of Russian heritage refused to recognize the new Kyiv coup regime, leading to a nasty civil war that lasted eight years. Russia through the Minsk agreements tried to resolve the conflict peacefully and got the Ukrainian government to sign it, but the Ukrainians refused to comply with the agreement. That eventually led to Russia invading Ukrainian.

The US continues to add fuel to the fire because it's profitable for the American military-industrial complex. These weapons manufacturers are calling the shots behind the scenes, along with the fossil fuels industry, which sees Russia as a threat to its vested interests. This is all about money and power.

 

[georgephillip]

Warsaw Pact Buffer Zone

I'm all for that, as long as they keep the U.S. and Western Europe out of it. Being overwhelmed by a richer alliance is all Putin is really worried about.

Putin seems willing to accept a policy of neutrality for Ukraine similar to the Austrian version at the end of WWII. Obviously, US neocons disagree.
The following link argues against Ukrainian neutrality apparently in support of the new NATO credo: "Keep America In, Russia Down, and China Out"
https://euromaidanpress.com/2017/04/27/austrian-neutrality-is-no-model-for-ukraine/

"Austria divided between the Allied powers between 1945-1955"

Declaration of Neutrality - Wikipedia

 

[krichton]

Oliver stone? Really?
You ARE really desperate aren't you?

Why not get Sasha from the corner store as a knowledgeable source....completely unbiased unless you slip him 5 Rubles (about a nickel in US currency)

His name is Joey, not Sasha, and he sells hot dogs from a cart, not from a store.

 

[krichton]

What is your point?
Do you want it owned by somebody elses Government?
RT now ranks as the worlds leading media conglomerate , something which misinformed Americans do not know .

Someone asked me a direct a question, i informed them, that was my point.

 

[JohnDB]

They did not cause it.

Putin did

 

[konradv]

Aside from "making the world safe for democracy" or some similar claptrap, what is the specific goal of U.S.policy towards Ukrainian territory? Is it to restore Ukrainian sovereignty over its 2020 borders with Russia, or is it to restore its sovereignty over Crimea, which was "annexed" by Russia in 2014? Or are we simply giving a blank check to Ukranian President Zelinsky to do whatever he wants?

It’s their country. Why shouldn’t they do whatever they want, as long as they’re not oppressing their or other people, like Putin does?

 

[ralfy]

Which rich? Are you claiming that rich Ukrainians benefit from the Russian invasion?

The U.S. rich which make up 10 pct of the U.S. population but owns 70 pct of total wealth of the U.S., funds the defense industry, and whose assets are managed by Wall Street.

The first is profiting from the war through sales, with costs passed on to the public, while Zelensky makes deals with BlackRock to "manage" the Ukrainian economy.

 

[ralfy]

That is propaganda....

Of course Russia is going to lose. It is inevitable. They can't stop the whole world generation after generation. Especially when the GDP of Russia is smaller than Texas or Italy.
Soon enough it will be smaller than Ukraine's.

Get used to the idea. Russia is going into self destruction. It's going to implode on itself from the internal fighting after this war failure is fully realized. The reparations alone are going to keep Russian oil basically free for decades. Russia is going to have to sell off its nuclear arsenal just to have cheese and bread on the table.

Currently the Ruble is at 0.015 Euro. It was at 0.4. No currency can withstand this level of degradation and continue.

It's all over but the fat lady singing and she is warming up.

More countries are moving away from the U.S., and even allies are wavering: France is making deals with China, Japan is buying oil from Russia, and several European countries are buying Russian oil indirectly via India.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

The goal is to make as much money as possible by killing as many White people as possible.

 

[LeroyDumonde]

More countries are moving away from the U.S., and even allies are wavering: France is making deals with China, Japan is buying oil from Russia, and several European countries are buying Russian oil indirectly via India.

The death of the petrodollar is part of the Great Reset.

 

[ralfy]

Russia GDP has fallen 20% YOY for the last two years in a row.

Russia is an irrelevant nation once this war is over. And Poland, China, and a few others are going to fight over the scraps.

Russia's GDP grew after 2004 at four times the rate of Ukraine. That's because they were able to counter their oligarchs that were earning with foreign business collusion via shock therapy. Ukraine never recovered which is why the U.S. was able to achieve regime change there.

BRICS and more emerging markets are slowly moving away from the dollar while France is answering back at the U.S. and Japan going against sanctions by buying oil directly from Russia.

Meanwhile, more Europeans and Americans are complaining about more money being sent to Ukraine when they need that because of economic crisis, and most of them don't even want to serve in the military or send troops.

 

[ralfy]

Warsaw Pact Buffer Zone

I'm all for that, as long as they keep the U.S. and Western Europe out of it. Being overwhelmed by a richer alliance is all Putin is really worried about.

The problem is that the U.S. is a meddler, and it needs to do that so that countries will remain reliant on the dollar for trade. But more countries are answering back at the U.S., including Saudi Arabia.

 

[Hector12]

The U.S. rich which make up 10 pct of the U.S. population but owns 70 pct of total wealth of the U.S., funds the defense industry, and whose assets are managed by Wall Street.

The first is profiting from the war through sales, with costs passed on to the public, while Zelensky makes deals with BlackRock to "manage" the Ukrainian economy.

I do not believe that justifies the Russian invasion of Ukraine, I do not believe that means that we should not help the Ukrainians defend themselves from the invasion.

 

[JohnDB]

The problem is that the U.S. is a meddler, and it needs to do that so that countries will remain reliant on the dollar for trade. But more countries are answering back at the U.S., including Saudi Arabia.

Smoke a lot do ya?

 

[JohnDB]

 

[Hector12]

Our main goal in Ukraine is the defeat of the Russian invasion. The collapse of the Russian Federation should not be our intended goal, but it would be nice if it happened.