What kind of a country is modern Ukraine?

[Ringo]

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has said that he will not allow the European Union (EU) to make a mistake and start accession talks with Ukraine.
According to Orban, Ukraine is not in the right state to start accession talks and the EU's plans are dictated only by short-term considerations.
"The EU is about to make a terrible mistake that must be prevented. Even if 26 want to make it, only we will be against it," he said.

Probably after talking to Zelensky in Argentina he was convinced, so to speak, by personal experience.

 

[ESay]

Just how do you work that out? it was one of the main reasons for the whole thing.

Because that was on the surface. The very idea of Ukraine becoming a NATO member was never put forward in practical terms and various European officials claimed that Ukraine could become a member only after years of reforms.

The only case when the 'membership' was put on the table was the 2008 Bucharest summit. (but even then it was not about membership, but only about the Membership Action Plan). But it was rejected due to Germany's and France's stance.

After 2014, when Ukraine and Russia have territorial disputes with other other, the membership was virtually forbidden according to the NATO Charter.

 

[Deadstick]

Because that was on the surface. The very idea of Ukraine becoming a NATO member was never put forward in practical terms and various European officials claimed that Ukraine could become a member only after years of reforms.

The only case when the 'membership' was put on the table was the 2008 Bucharest summit. (but even then it was not about membership, but only about the Membership Action Plan). But it was rejected due to Germany's and France's stance.

After 2014, when Ukraine and Russia have territorial disputes with other other, the membership was virtually forbidden according to the NATO Charter.

If you think that was not the plan all along get your head tested, of course it was, you don't think the US would allow it's underlings like Germany and France get in the way of their Nato plan do you? the Germans were complicit in blowing up their own pipeline on US orders trashing their own economy, we need to get one thing clear Nato is just a foreign legion for the US agenda.

 

[ESay]

If you think that was not the plan all along get your head tested, of course it was, you don't think the US would allow it's underlings like Germany and France get in the way of their Nato plan do you? the Germans were complicit in blowing up their own pipeline on US orders trashing their own economy, we need to get one thing clear Nato is just a foreign legion for the US agenda.

What was the plan, genius? To reject Ukraine at the time when Russia barely had the means for answer, spread this 'process' for more than a decade, resulting in shrinking of their would-be 'vassal' territory and potentially accepting some kind of Putin’s 'victory' in this war?

What the fuck are you babbling?

 

[Ringo]

Ukraine is a bankrupt country with no manufacturing capabilities, no budget, and minimal exports (aside from grains contaminated with radiation, even rejected by China, thanks to the UK and depleted uranium shells). Without help from abroad, Ukraine will not be able to pay pensions and salaries to the entire spectrum of corrupt deputies almost immediately.
It's an absolutely fake structure mistakenly called a country — a mercenary criminal organization involved in child and organ trafficking, financially supported by the largest criminal clan in the world.

 

[Deadstick]

What was the plan, genius? To reject Ukraine at the time when Russia barely had the means for answer, spread this 'process' for more than a decade, resulting in shrinking of their would-be 'vassal' territory and potentially accepting some kind of Putin’s 'victory' in this war?

What the fuck are you babbling?

The plan was and is to bring Ukraine under the US Reich and use it as a spear to destroy Russia, problem is the US actually are so arrogant they thought they could get away with it they forgot who they are dealing with after years of smashing up smaller Countries.

 

[Dissident]

Your thinking is naive, no country becomes a worthwhile democracy overnight...

The examples from the first post of the thread show that Ukraine is not becoming a democracy. These examples show that Ukraine is becoming a LESS democratic country than it was before February 2014. i.e. before Euromaidan.

 

[Dissident]

Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orban has said that he will not allow the European Union (EU) to make a mistake and start accession talks with Ukraine.

Please read my post above which explains Orban’s words.

Ethnic Hungarians have been living in Transcarpathia, which is now a part of Ukraine, for more than thousand years, since 896 at the latest.

But after Euromaidan, ethnic Hungarians are not an Indigenous People of Ukraine.

On the contrary, Crimean Tatars, who came to the Crimea only in the 13th century, are Indigenous People of Ukraine according to the post-Maidan Laws and have more rights in Ukraine than ethnic Hungarians.

 

[Dissident]

Ignoramus, Russia has invaded Ukraine in 2014, annexed Crimea and was conducting hybrid warfare in Donbas until full invasion in 2022.

It is suicidal for a country fighting for its very survival to allow enemy propaganda operations.

Ukraine was not in state of war in 2014 and it is not in state of war now.

There is martial law in Ukraine and this martial law was declared not in 2014 but in February 2022, see the official website of the President of Ukraine.

And wasn’t it strange for “a country fighting for its very survival” that there were tourists who visited Ukrainian cities between 2014 and February 2022?

And wasn’t it strange that citizens of “a country fighting for its very survival” worried about cruel treatment of animals at that period; see here?

 

[ESay]

The plan was and is to bring Ukraine under the US Reich and use it as a spear to destroy Russia, problem is the US actually are so arrogant they thought they could get away with it they forgot who they are dealing with after years of smashing up smaller Countries.

If they really thought that Ukraine's spear can destroy Russia, then all those experts, advisors and the 'army' of diplomats aren't worth shit and they should be thrown away for wasting money they get.

I try not to believe that people who have the power and those who help them to govern can't be more incompetent than an average person. But the current American administration and NATO bureaucrats have really shaken this my belief. Those idiots really thought that Ukraine could militarily defeat Russia.

 

[Deadstick]

If they really thought that Ukraine's spear can destroy Russia, then all those experts, advisors and the 'army' of diplomats aren't worth shit and they should be thrown away for wasting money they get.

I try not to believe that people who have the power and those who help them to govern can't be more incompetent than an average person. But the current American administration and NATO bureaucrats have really shaken this my belief. Those idiots really thought that Ukraine could militarily defeat Russia.

Well thats how arrogant they are, because they trashed several small Countries they lost touch with reality, they live in some alternative universe.

 

[Ringo]

During Zelensky's last trip to the United States, the americans gave the members of his delegation tickets to a basketball game so that the guests would have a good time, but the ukrainians sold them out and made $1,700. NBC4 journalists, who wanted to talk to the ukrainians at the game, found out about it.

 

[Ringo]

A deputy in Transcarpathia, Ukraine, has detonated three grenades at a session of the village council, Ukrainian media report.
According to the latest data, 26 people were injured, 6 of them in serious condition. It is specified that the bomber is alive.

 

[ESay]

Well thats how arrogant they are, because they trashed several small Countries they lost touch with reality, they live in some alternative universe.

Who are 'they'? The American establishment? Maybe. But I don't think that the European one is any better. Look at your 'elite' as an example. Still suffering mental aches about the gone empire and trying to build 'Global Something' despite obvious ridiculousness of this adventure.

 

[Deadstick]

Who are 'they'? The American establishment? Maybe. But I don't think that the European one is any better. Look at your 'elite' as an example. Still suffering mental aches about the gone empire and trying to build 'Global Something' despite obvious ridiculousness of this adventure.

Quite right, the sad thing is what i call the Euro trash including my Country are just pathetic vassals of the US Establishment, in fact with many it is treasonous, i was talking to a mate the other day and i said if we had the same pathetic calibre of leaders in Europe back in the 60s they would have had us fighting in the jungles of South East Asia just to please the US, thank god we had politicians here in the UK who wouldn't tolerate it.

 

[ESay]

Quite right, the sad thing is what i call the Euro trash including my Country are just pathetic vassals of the US Establishment, in fact with many it is treasonous, i was talking to a mate the other day and i said if we had the same pathetic calibre of leaders in Europe back in the 60s they would have had us fighting in the jungles of South East Asia just to please the US, thank god we had politicians here in the UK who wouldn't tolerate it.

Making the EU an independent centre of global power is an idea that resonates in some European capitals. But is it possible? I am quite sceptical about that. Even more, without some external power that holds this Union together, it can barely exist.

 

[Deadstick]

Making the EU an independent centre of global power is an idea that resonates in some European capitals. But is it possible? I am quite sceptical about that. Even more, without some external power that holds this Union together, it can barely exist.

I was a big supporter of the EU, closer links between our peoples and for economic reasons, but it's become too political and just a collection of vassal States, some of those idiots have damaged their own economies just to please the US, the sanctions against Russia have boomeranged, the Germans had cheap Russian gas for years without any problems, they deserve all they get.

 

[AlexanderPK]

That's Ukraine for you, modern and not so:

 

[ESay]

I was a big supporter of the EU, closer links between our peoples and for economic reasons, but it's become too political and just a collection of vassal States, some of those idiots have damaged their own economies just to please the US, the sanctions against Russia have boomeranged, the Germans had cheap Russian gas for years without any problems, they deserve all they get.

About the Germans.. Sometimes I think that 'semi-masochism' is their national pleasure that others just can't get.

The idea of the EU is a great idea. Common political and economic union for peace and prosperity for the entire continent. But it seems that like other great ideas it can exist only in theory.

The odds are high that over the time it will get evident that the creation of super-federation was a mistake. And pre-1992 'Single market' form was the best solution.

 

[AntonToo]

The plan was and is to bring Ukraine under the US Reich and use it as a spear to destroy Russia, problem is the US actually are so arrogant they thought they could get away with it they forgot who they are dealing with after years of smashing up smaller Countries.

Dumbass until Russia started invading its neighbors (again) Ukraine was committed to neutrality.

NATO doesn’t expand by member countries wanting something, it expands because Russia’s neighbors are concerned about their crazy, aggressive neighbor and want security assurances.

Finland and Sweden saw what happened in Ukraine and dropped their neutrality policies overnight.

Get your cause and effect straight instead eating up Kremlin propaganda like a fucking dupe. Nobody wants anything to do with Russian swamp, least of all to occupy and manage its vast depravity.