What Makes Poor People Poor? - Special Segment

[rightwinger]

Often times, what makes poor people poor; is low IQ that lessens impulse control, which makes it more difficult for the individual to make, and maintain long term sacrifices/commitments for great rewards. Instead they are more prone to decide in favor of instant gratification...

That had a lot to do with it

Any population would have a certain percentage in the low IQ range. The question for a society is how do we take care of those people?

 

[Andylusion]

It’s the only solution that will make a material difference.

Makes sense to billionaires

Simple math. Give billionaires a significant tax cut, who makes up the difference?

Actually it doesn’t. They fear the loss of the their loopholes and deductions. It makes great sense to poor people who would only pay taxes above the poverty threshold. The government fears this and so do government lackies.

What happened to their loopholes when we slashed their tax rate last year?

Didn’t touch them

I'm all in favor of having a flat tax, with zero deductions.

Until then, we have to fight for every reduction in wasteful taxes we can.

I would love to have our entire national tax system, be reduced to a post card, with "income" X "tax rate" = "Tax due".
No deductions, no special interest.

Works for a working Joe who has all of his income reported to the IRS

But if you own a business or are extremely wealthy, it is easier to distort what your income is

Actually that isn't entirely true. From my understanding, it is far easier to hide your income when you are at the lower end. Mainly because the IRS is less likely to audit you.

Like any collection agency, the primary way to get promoted is to bring in the cash. IRS agents are far more likely to move up, if they knock down a couple of millionaires, rather than a hundred 5th quintile people. (lower 20% of wage earners).

Just a fact. They are more likely to have your data looked at, if you earn more.

And the reasons are quite obvious. Even if they nail some guy with a $30,000 income to the wall... he isn't likely to be able to pay it back. Whereas a wealthy person could have hundreds of thousands in sizeable assets.

Now if you mean that it is easier to take deductions, when you earn more money.... that actually isn't true either.

The poor people can utilize all the same deductions as the rich. The difference is only that the value of the deductions does not pay off at the lower end.

For example, a poor person 'could' take stock options. But losing the income in stock, that would only save $50 in taxes, doesn't make sense when you only earn $10/hour.

It's only when you are making $200,000, and taking less money in cash, in order to take compensation in stock, which saves $50,000.... then it makes sense.

Which of course is why Warren Buffet only makes $100,000 a year in salary. Everything else is in stock.

 

[Andylusion]

First of all it’s a sliding scale secondly with all of the loopholes and deductions he probably pays a lower effective rate than a couple earning 300k jointly.

You think those loopholes won’t be there at 25 percent?

Yes, that is correct. The only deductions will be 25k for individual filings and 50k for joint filings. No exceptions.

Yea....like that is going to happen

The Golden Rule.......He who has the gold makes the rules

As soon as the wealthy get their 25 percent tax rate, they will demand legislation that starts........If you give us this deduction, it will create jobs

Then why didn't they demand those deductions prior to FDR? Because FDR is who raised taxes so high, that deductions were required to avoid a total destruction of the economy.

By the way, do you know who was first to lobby government, and get deductions?

Which only distorts what the effective rate really is. It isn’t transparent or a level playing field. Not exactly a paragon of equality.

Which again is why I think we should have a universal flat tax, with zero deductions. Everyone pays the exact same percentage of their income in taxes, no matter what. Zero deductions. One single, universal, flat percentage tax rate.

That's what I advocate.

 

[Andylusion]

But see, when I look at Europe, and the most recently France, this system of attacking the rich, under the theory it helps the poor..... doesn't play out.

This entire time you are chatting back and fourth on how much money can we soak the rich for.... but when has that ever worked throughout all the world, and all history? Never.

France has spent decades now, trying to soak the rich. It hasn't made things better for the poor. That's why the poor have been burning down France.

France Rang In The New Year Under A Cloud Of Heavy Security

You can't tax your country into prosperity. You can only tax your country into poverty. No matter how much you talk about how you'll make the wealthy pay this tax, or that tax, or some other tax, it will never work. It never has. It never will.

I am not suggesting we should. I am suggesting that we should be fiscally responsible. The best way to accomplish that is to set the tax rate to the rate necessary to balance the budget and make all people share the burden proportionately. Overnight there would be a change.

I agree with what you wrote.

Impossible. There is no tax level high enough to fix socialism.

As long as we have a socialized system of health care and pensions in place, taxes will have to increase continually until the country implodes. It is impossible to find the magic tax rate that will balance the budget.

If you doubt that... again just look at Europe. All of Europe. Most of Europe has been protected by the US. Norway, like all European countries, has drastically higher taxes. Most people, even lower-middle class, lose 50% of their income in taxes.

And yet they are running a deficit. France is running a deficit. Japan is running a deficit.

They have nearly double our average tax rate, and are all running a deficit.

So this idea that we just need to increase taxes until we can afford socialism... is never going to work. Soon we'll be paying $8/gallon for gas, like France does. All to pay for the free stuff everyone wants. Then when it destroys the middle class, like in France, people will be burning down the country.

If you want to balance the budget, the solution is to reform entitlements. We need to privatize social security, and eliminate socialized health care. If we do that, the budget will balance without us doing anything with taxes.

County governments set their tax rates equal to the budget. That’s what I propose the federal government do.

I'd have a hard time naming one that succeeding in doing that. Which OECD country would you point to that has a tax rate that matches their budget.
Be sure to provide proof of a balanced budget.

None I’m sure. Maybe that’s the problem.

Ok, so maybe tax income isn't the issue. Maybe it's overspending.

See the problem is, you say that OECD countries raise taxes to match their spending.... but they don't. So what's the issue? Is it that they haven't raise taxes enough? No, Greece had a 46% income tax, and a 42% social security tax..... yet they were just weeks away from a total national default.

Is not 88% tax, not including 23% sales tax, and a 26% corporate tax, enough taxes to fund everything? Apparently not. Why?

Because socialism never works. Socialized medicine, socialized education, and socialized retirement. Every single socialized system in the history of this planet, eventually fails. Eventually at some point, you run out of other people's money.

So no matter how much money you collect in taxes, the costs will keep going up, and the taxes keep going up, and eventually the entire system fails.

The problem is not tax revenue. It never was. It never will be.

The problem is spending. Anyone that ever thinks about having a balanced budget, should never look at raising taxes. That isn't the problem. The problem is always the spending.

 

[Moonglow]

In a nutshell? Liberal Victimhood. If you can stop believing that you are a victim, then you too can use God's gift to lift yourself out of poverty. I did it, Ben Carson did it, even Morgan Freeman(God) did it.

Were you a quadriplegic?

 

[Vastator]

Often times, what makes poor people poor; is low IQ that lessens impulse control, which makes it more difficult for the individual to make, and maintain long term sacrifices/commitments for great rewards. Instead they are more prone to decide in favor of instant gratification...

That had a lot to do with it

Any population would have a certain percentage in the low IQ range. The question for a society is how do we take care of those people?

That's not a question for society. That's a question for a socialist/collectivist...

 

[progressive hunter]

You think those loopholes won’t be there at 25 percent?

Yes, that is correct. The only deductions will be 25k for individual filings and 50k for joint filings. No exceptions.

Yea....like that is going to happen

The Golden Rule.......He who has the gold makes the rules

As soon as the wealthy get their 25 percent tax rate, they will demand legislation that starts........If you give us this deduction, it will create jobs

Then why didn't they demand those deductions prior to FDR? Because FDR is who raised taxes so high, that deductions were required to avoid a total destruction of the economy.

By the way, do you know who was first to lobby government, and get deductions?

Which only distorts what the effective rate really is. It isn’t transparent or a level playing field. Not exactly a paragon of equality.

Which again is why I think we should have a universal flat tax, with zero deductions. Everyone pays the exact same percentage of their income in taxes, no matter what. Zero deductions. One single, universal, flat percentage tax rate.

That's what I advocate.

I would add in removing the employer based tax collection and have the people pay their own taxs,,,then they might be a little more aware of whats going on and be less apathetic about politics

 

[Andylusion]

Being required to pay, doesn't mean you pay. Illegals avoid taxes constantly.

Yeah, I'm in favor of the feds having less of our money. I get that. But not at expense of law and order. You should pay your taxes, because that's what a law abiding citizen should do. Yeah, I get that government is a wasteful whore, screwing over the American people, in favor of themselves.

That's why you vote for people who say they will dismantle social security and medicare and the welfare system.

But you do not violate the law.

americans avoid taxs when ever they can so whats the dif???

and I dont vote for those people

Don't lump everyone in the same boat. When I bought my car, the guy selling it to me, said he would put $1 on it, so I could avoid taxes. I told him to write down exactly what I paid him for it, and paid it in full.

Similarly, my father is an artist, and all the sales of his paintings are in cash, but he records each and every single sale, and reports it on his income, and pays full taxes.

Now we all will take every legal deduction we can, but we follow the law. We're Christians.

We have honor, and integrity. Do not assume everyone is the same.

since that tax money goes to fund abortions how is that christian???

I oppose abortion at every possible turn. However, two wrongs, does not make a right.

Jesus himself, paid his taxes, even though the very people he paid taxes to, were the very people who had him killed. And he knew that at the time.

I've worked for bad employers that were violating the law. That didn't justify me extorting money, by threatening to turn them into the police.

One wrong actions, does not justify another wrong action.

that goes both ways,,,between me and my wife we paid about 50% tax burden last yr,,,how is that christian???

the christian method is 10%

Huh? Your tithe to the church, and paying your taxes are not the same. There is only one "christian method" to paying taxes.... that is to.... pay your taxes.

It is Christian, to follow the law, and pay your taxes. That is "how it is christian".

Jesus said very clearly "yield to ceasar what is ceasars". He didn't say "unless it's more than the temple tax, and then it isn't Christian, and it's ok to not pay your taxes."

 

[rightwinger]

Often times, what makes poor people poor; is low IQ that lessens impulse control, which makes it more difficult for the individual to make, and maintain long term sacrifices/commitments for great rewards. Instead they are more prone to decide in favor of instant gratification...

That had a lot to do with it

Any population would have a certain percentage in the low IQ range. The question for a society is how do we take care of those people?

That's not a question for society. That's a question for a socialist/collectivist...

That is a question societies must address
What do we do with our poorest members?
Do we apply social Darwinism and let them starve or die from a lack of healthcare or do we provide for those unable to provide for themselves

 

[progressive hunter]

americans avoid taxs when ever they can so whats the dif???

and I dont vote for those people

Don't lump everyone in the same boat. When I bought my car, the guy selling it to me, said he would put $1 on it, so I could avoid taxes. I told him to write down exactly what I paid him for it, and paid it in full.

Similarly, my father is an artist, and all the sales of his paintings are in cash, but he records each and every single sale, and reports it on his income, and pays full taxes.

Now we all will take every legal deduction we can, but we follow the law. We're Christians.

We have honor, and integrity. Do not assume everyone is the same.

since that tax money goes to fund abortions how is that christian???

I oppose abortion at every possible turn. However, two wrongs, does not make a right.

Jesus himself, paid his taxes, even though the very people he paid taxes to, were the very people who had him killed. And he knew that at the time.

I've worked for bad employers that were violating the law. That didn't justify me extorting money, by threatening to turn them into the police.

One wrong actions, does not justify another wrong action.

that goes both ways,,,between me and my wife we paid about 50% tax burden last yr,,,how is that christian???

the christian method is 10%

Huh? Your tithe to the church, and paying your taxes are not the same. There is only one "christian method" to paying taxes.... that is to.... pay your taxes.

It is Christian, to follow the law, and pay your taxes. That is "how it is christian".

Jesus said very clearly "yield to ceasar what is ceasars". He didn't say "unless it's more than the temple tax, and then it isn't Christian, and it's ok to not pay your taxes."

to a point youre right,,,but at a point it becomes abusive, and we reached that yrs ago and the abortion aspect is a good example,,take from me and murder a child with the money,,,again not very christian

 

[Vastator]

Yes, that is correct. The only deductions will be 25k for individual filings and 50k for joint filings. No exceptions.

Yea....like that is going to happen

The Golden Rule.......He who has the gold makes the rules

As soon as the wealthy get their 25 percent tax rate, they will demand legislation that starts........If you give us this deduction, it will create jobs

Then why didn't they demand those deductions prior to FDR? Because FDR is who raised taxes so high, that deductions were required to avoid a total destruction of the economy.

By the way, do you know who was first to lobby government, and get deductions?

Which only distorts what the effective rate really is. It isn’t transparent or a level playing field. Not exactly a paragon of equality.

Which again is why I think we should have a universal flat tax, with zero deductions. Everyone pays the exact same percentage of their income in taxes, no matter what. Zero deductions. One single, universal, flat percentage tax rate.

That's what I advocate.

I would add in removing the employer based tax collection and have the people pay their own taxs,,,then they might be a little more aware of whats going on and be less apathetic about politics

That's the last thing big government wants from its tax slaves. Then Theyd start asking all kinds of pesky questions. Like "exactly where, and how is my money being spent. Show me"... Can't have that...

 

[Andylusion]

It's not about how much you make, it is how much you keep. If you make $50,000 a year and are able to save $5000 a year, you are far better off than the guy making $100,000 a year and spending $120,000 a year.

The rich treat money differently than the poor. That's why the poor are poor.

it also helps when the rich are too big to fail.

worry about yourself and leave he rich alone,,,unless youre just jealous

stop cutting social services for the Poor. unless you are just jealous.

jealousy has nothing to do with it,,,the feds have no legal authority to steal from me a gun point and give it to those that refuse to provide for themselves

Often times, what makes poor people poor; is low IQ that lessens impulse control, which makes it more difficult for the individual to make, and maintain long term sacrifices/commitments for great rewards. Instead they are more prone to decide in favor of instant gratification...

I don't think that has anything to do with low IQ.

The remarkable life and lessons of the $8 million janitor

Unless you think this Janitor was a astrophysicist....

Everything else you said is dead on right. It is all about sacrifice, commitment, and wise choices.

I just don't think it has anything to do with being stupid. Many very smart people, end up broke. Because they might know how to do some amazing thing, and make good money, but then they blow on stupidity and I want it now.

This actually happened in my own extended family, we had a guy that was brilliant, but through a series of short-term-gain long-term-pain moves, ended up blowing everything he had. He's back working and making decent money, but if he had just kept his gotta have it now mentality in check, he'd be a multimillionaire by now.

 

[Vastator]

Often times, what makes poor people poor; is low IQ that lessens impulse control, which makes it more difficult for the individual to make, and maintain long term sacrifices/commitments for great rewards. Instead they are more prone to decide in favor of instant gratification...

That had a lot to do with it

Any population would have a certain percentage in the low IQ range. The question for a society is how do we take care of those people?

That's not a question for society. That's a question for a socialist/collectivist...

That is a question societies must address
What do we do with our poorest members?
Do we apply social Darwinism and let them starve or die from a lack of healthcare or do we provide for those unable to provide for themselves

Individuals should be free to decide for themselves if they want to voluntarily engage in charity, or not. Societies no matter their structure will have poor in their ranks. That's just the way it goes.

 

[Andylusion]

It's not about how much you make, it is how much you keep. If you make $50,000 a year and are able to save $5000 a year, you are far better off than the guy making $100,000 a year and spending $120,000 a year.

The rich treat money differently than the poor. That's why the poor are poor.

it also helps when the rich are too big to fail.

worry about yourself and leave he rich alone,,,unless youre just jealous

stop cutting social services for the Poor. unless you are just jealous.

jealousy has nothing to do with it,,,the feds have no legal authority to steal from me a gun point and give it to those that refuse to provide for themselves

Often times, what makes poor people poor; is low IQ that lessens impulse control, which makes it more difficult for the individual to make, and maintain long term sacrifices/commitments for great rewards. Instead they are more prone to decide in favor of instant gratification...

I don't think that has anything to do with low IQ.

The remarkable life and lessons of the $8 million janitor

Unless you think this Janitor was a astrophysicist....

Everything else you said is dead on right. It is all about sacrifice, commitment, and wise choices.

I just don't think it has anything to do with being stupid. Many very smart people, end up broke. Because they might know how to do some amazing thing, and make good money, but then they blow on stupidity and I want it now.

This actually happened in my own extended family, we had a guy that was brilliant, but through a series of short-term-gain long-term-pain moves, ended up blowing everything he had. He's back working and making decent money, but if he had just kept his gotta have

Yes, that is correct. The only deductions will be 25k for individual filings and 50k for joint filings. No exceptions.

Yea....like that is going to happen

The Golden Rule.......He who has the gold makes the rules

As soon as the wealthy get their 25 percent tax rate, they will demand legislation that starts........If you give us this deduction, it will create jobs

Then why didn't they demand those deductions prior to FDR? Because FDR is who raised taxes so high, that deductions were required to avoid a total destruction of the economy.

By the way, do you know who was first to lobby government, and get deductions?

Which only distorts what the effective rate really is. It isn’t transparent or a level playing field. Not exactly a paragon of equality.

Which again is why I think we should have a universal flat tax, with zero deductions. Everyone pays the exact same percentage of their income in taxes, no matter what. Zero deductions. One single, universal, flat percentage tax rate.

That's what I advocate.

I would add in removing the employer based tax collection and have the people pay their own taxs,,,then they might be a little more aware of whats going on and be less apathetic about politics

Which would be great, but that will never happen. The amount of outcry from people hit with a large tax bill at the end of the year would destroy any chance of having people write out a check.

I would love to have that system, for sure. But it will never happen. We have a better chance of eliminating the income tax completely, rather than getting that change made.

And yeah, you are dead on right. There would be such a massive swing to the right, if we had that system.... which is also why it will never happen. It would spell the end of the Democrat party.

 

[rightwinger]

Often times, what makes poor people poor; is low IQ that lessens impulse control, which makes it more difficult for the individual to make, and maintain long term sacrifices/commitments for great rewards. Instead they are more prone to decide in favor of instant gratification...

That had a lot to do with it

Any population would have a certain percentage in the low IQ range. The question for a society is how do we take care of those people?

That's not a question for society. That's a question for a socialist/collectivist...

That is a question societies must address
What do we do with our poorest members?
Do we apply social Darwinism and let them starve or die from a lack of healthcare or do we provide for those unable to provide for themselves

Individuals should be free to decide for themselves if they want to voluntarily engage in charity, or not. Societies no matter their structure will have poor in their ranks. That's just the way it goes.

You are not welcome in my society

 

[Vastator]

It's not about how much you make, it is how much you keep. If you make $50,000 a year and are able to save $5000 a year, you are far better off than the guy making $100,000 a year and spending $120,000 a year.

The rich treat money differently than the poor. That's why the poor are poor.

it also helps when the rich are too big to fail.

worry about yourself and leave he rich alone,,,unless youre just jealous

stop cutting social services for the Poor. unless you are just jealous.

jealousy has nothing to do with it,,,the feds have no legal authority to steal from me a gun point and give it to those that refuse to provide for themselves

Often times, what makes poor people poor; is low IQ that lessens impulse control, which makes it more difficult for the individual to make, and maintain long term sacrifices/commitments for great rewards. Instead they are more prone to decide in favor of instant gratification...

I don't think that has anything to do with low IQ.

The remarkable life and lessons of the $8 million janitor

Unless you think this Janitor was a astrophysicist....

Everything else you said is dead on right. It is all about sacrifice, commitment, and wise choices.

I just don't think it has anything to do with being stupid. Many very smart people, end up broke. Because they might know how to do some amazing thing, and make good money, but then they blow on stupidity and I want it now.

This actually happened in my own extended family, we had a guy that was brilliant, but through a series of short-term-gain long-term-pain moves, ended up blowing everything he had. He's back working and making decent money, but if he had just kept his gotta have it now mentality in check, he'd be a multimillionaire by now.

Even smart people are capable of making a bad, or out of character decision. The timing and circumstance of such a decision can have significant results. But on average the IQ observation holds.

 

[progressive hunter]

Often times, what makes poor people poor; is low IQ that lessens impulse control, which makes it more difficult for the individual to make, and maintain long term sacrifices/commitments for great rewards. Instead they are more prone to decide in favor of instant gratification...

That had a lot to do with it

Any population would have a certain percentage in the low IQ range. The question for a society is how do we take care of those people?

That's not a question for society. That's a question for a socialist/collectivist...

That is a question societies must address
What do we do with our poorest members?
Do we apply social Darwinism and let them starve or die from a lack of healthcare or do we provide for those unable to provide for themselves

Individuals should be free to decide for themselves if they want to voluntarily engage in charity, or not. Societies no matter their structure will have poor in their ranks. That's just the way it goes.

You are not welcome in my society

not your decision,,,you dont like his kind you are free to move on

 

[progressive hunter]

It's not about how much you make, it is how much you keep. If you make $50,000 a year and are able to save $5000 a year, you are far better off than the guy making $100,000 a year and spending $120,000 a year.

The rich treat money differently than the poor. That's why the poor are poor.

it also helps when the rich are too big to fail.

worry about yourself and leave he rich alone,,,unless youre just jealous

stop cutting social services for the Poor. unless you are just jealous.

jealousy has nothing to do with it,,,the feds have no legal authority to steal from me a gun point and give it to those that refuse to provide for themselves

Often times, what makes poor people poor; is low IQ that lessens impulse control, which makes it more difficult for the individual to make, and maintain long term sacrifices/commitments for great rewards. Instead they are more prone to decide in favor of instant gratification...

I don't think that has anything to do with low IQ.

The remarkable life and lessons of the $8 million janitor

Unless you think this Janitor was a astrophysicist....

Everything else you said is dead on right. It is all about sacrifice, commitment, and wise choices.

I just don't think it has anything to do with being stupid. Many very smart people, end up broke. Because they might know how to do some amazing thing, and make good money, but then they blow on stupidity and I want it now.

This actually happened in my own extended family, we had a guy that was brilliant, but through a series of short-term-gain long-term-pain moves, ended up blowing everything he had. He's back working and making decent money, but if he had just kept his gotta have

Yea....like that is going to happen

The Golden Rule.......He who has the gold makes the rules

As soon as the wealthy get their 25 percent tax rate, they will demand legislation that starts........If you give us this deduction, it will create jobs

Then why didn't they demand those deductions prior to FDR? Because FDR is who raised taxes so high, that deductions were required to avoid a total destruction of the economy.

By the way, do you know who was first to lobby government, and get deductions?

Which only distorts what the effective rate really is. It isn’t transparent or a level playing field. Not exactly a paragon of equality.

Which again is why I think we should have a universal flat tax, with zero deductions. Everyone pays the exact same percentage of their income in taxes, no matter what. Zero deductions. One single, universal, flat percentage tax rate.

That's what I advocate.

I would add in removing the employer based tax collection and have the people pay their own taxs,,,then they might be a little more aware of whats going on and be less apathetic about politics

Which would be great, but that will never happen. The amount of outcry from people hit with a large tax bill at the end of the year would destroy any chance of having people write out a check.

I would love to have that system, for sure. But it will never happen. We have a better chance of eliminating the income tax completely, rather than getting that change made.

And yeah, you are dead on right. There would be such a massive swing to the right, if we had that system.... which is also why it will never happen. It would spell the end of the Democrat party.

since when did anyone care what the people thought??

still the best solution for overspending among other things

 

[Vastator]

Often times, what makes poor people poor; is low IQ that lessens impulse control, which makes it more difficult for the individual to make, and maintain long term sacrifices/commitments for great rewards. Instead they are more prone to decide in favor of instant gratification...

That had a lot to do with it

Any population would have a certain percentage in the low IQ range. The question for a society is how do we take care of those people?

That's not a question for society. That's a question for a socialist/collectivist...

That is a question societies must address
What do we do with our poorest members?
Do we apply social Darwinism and let them starve or die from a lack of healthcare or do we provide for those unable to provide for themselves

Individuals should be free to decide for themselves if they want to voluntarily engage in charity, or not. Societies no matter their structure will have poor in their ranks. That's just the way it goes.

You are not welcome in my society

I never asked for, nor required your invitation. Your discomfort with my presence is of no consequence to me...

 

[Vastator]

That had a lot to do with it

Any population would have a certain percentage in the low IQ range. The question for a society is how do we take care of those people?

That's not a question for society. That's a question for a socialist/collectivist...

That is a question societies must address
What do we do with our poorest members?
Do we apply social Darwinism and let them starve or die from a lack of healthcare or do we provide for those unable to provide for themselves

Individuals should be free to decide for themselves if they want to voluntarily engage in charity, or not. Societies no matter their structure will have poor in their ranks. That's just the way it goes.

You are not welcome in my society

not your decision,,,you dont like his kind you are free to move on

That's the beauty of freedom. Don't like the view, or company...? Your free to move it along...