What one issue do you struggle with the most?

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

As many as you pay to execute.

.

So, no answer.

I've never paid to execute anyone. The state in which I live now has not executed anyone for ten years -- far longer than I've lived here. The state I moved from does not have the death penalty, so I'm sure my taxes have supported lifers in that state.





.

 

[Fueri]

.

So, no answer.

I've never paid to execute anyone. The state in which I live now has not executed anyone for ten years -- far longer than I've lived here. The state I moved from does not have the death penalty, so I'm sure my taxes have supported lifers in that state.

No answer because it was clearly a loaded/leading question, so I reflected your own question back at you, ie, I was not falling for that tactic.

If you have a real question, go right ahead.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I used to not struggle with the death penalty at all, just thought that most of them should be fried- and quickly, but fact is that innocent people have been exonerated after being on death row for years, and some have been executed and later found to be innocent, so the system is too flawed for practical use.

I totally flipped on that one after learning that. Clear for me at this point.

The fact is for the most part those cases were decided many years ago before our criminology became so advanced. You could get the death penalty by somebody simply testifying against you. But today, if you are guilty, they have more than ample evidence with DNA and forensic technology. Today there are cameras everywhere and in some cases can't be detected.

I used to watch those detective shows where they re-enact the scene. As the show advanced I thought to myself "Oh, they have him now dead to rights" and the host would then say "but this is not enough to make a murder case." I'd say what?????

Now that does not mean I'm for killing anybody at a drop of a hat, I don't even think OJ should have gotten the death penalty because there were questions. But for those cases with empirical evidence against them that have been convicted in the last ten years, I'm all for it.

 

[OhPleaseJustQuit]

No answer because it was clearly a loaded/leading question, so I reflected your own question back at you, ie, I was not falling for that tactic.

If you have a real question, go right ahead.

.

Deflection and reflection are not the same.

It was an honest question.

Good bye.

.

 

[Fueri]

.

Deflection and reflection are not the same.

It was an honest question.

Good bye.

.

No, it wasn't an 'honest question'. You already knew the answer, unless you thought I was mailing checks to the local prison, so it was a clearly a leading question. I don't fall for that nonsense.

If you have an actual question, which is not an attempt to lead me into saying something you'd like me to say so that you can attack that, be my guest.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Jurors determine guilt or innocence; they generally don't hand down sentences.

In cases where the death penalty is an option, the judge usually asks for their recommendation.

 

[Fueri]

The fact is for the most part those cases were decided many years ago before our criminology became so advanced. You could get the death penalty by somebody simply testifying against you. But today, if you are guilty, they have more than ample evidence with DNA and forensic technology. Today there are cameras everywhere and in some cases can't be detected.

I used to watch those detective shows where they re-enact the scene. As the show advanced I thought to myself "Oh, they have him now dead to rights" and the host would then say "but this is not enough to make a murder case." I'd say what?????

Now that does not mean I'm for killing anybody at a drop of a hat, I don't even think OJ should have gotten the death penalty because there were questions. But for those cases with empirical evidence against them that have been convicted in the last ten years, I'm all for it.

I thought that too, but some of them were 90's and 2000's, well after DNA started being used.

And, as I've said before in this thread, I'm not morally against the death penalty, I just think the legal system is flawed.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Life in prison seems like the cheaper option. Plus, the prison system these days seems to fuck up the executions (by using the wrong cocktail of expensive chemicals) they do carry out.

Life in prison is cheaper because the anti-death penalty people figure in every cent in which includes how much it costs us to keep them in prison for 10,12 or 15 years during their appeals process. For open and shut cases all appeals processes should be exhausted in one year or less.

When we used firing squads there was no F-up and much cheaper and humane as well.

 

[fncceo]

What one issue do you struggle with the most?​

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

I thought that too, but some of them were 90's and 2000's, well after DNA started being used.

And, as I've said before in this thread, I'm not morally against the death penalty, I just think the legal system is flawed.

It's not just DNA but like I said, forensic science is getting better every year. Look at that Idaho case where that maniac killed four girls for no reason. You have to ask yourself how out of the hundreds of millions of people did they find this guy? They not only found him, but apparently have enough evidence against him to make a case strong enough for charges.

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

.

So, no answer.

I've never paid to execute anyone. The state in which I live now has not executed anyone for ten years -- far longer than I've lived here. The state I moved from does not have the death penalty, so I'm sure my taxes have supported lifers in that state.





.

And I think that's what would have really bothered me if the victim was somebody close to me; that I'd have to look at my paycheck every two weeks knowing that my tax money was going to feed and house the person that did this to my family.

That's why I think it's the family of the victim that should decide if the death penalty should be applied.

 

[Fueri]

It's not just DNA but like I said, forensic science is getting better every year. Look at that Idaho case where that maniac killed four girls for no reason. You have to ask yourself how out of the hundreds of millions of people did they find this guy? They not only found him, but apparently have enough evidence against him to make a case strong enough for charges.

Agreed. Some of these POS should be fed into a wood chipper.

Thing is I've trolled the database of these people that have been exonerated. Most common reason given as one of many for these being overturned is official misconduct.

Here's what I mean. Just some of the more recent exonerations. It is these people, in some cases in which DNA evidence was used, that are getting screwed. And it's people doing it. And, IMO, people will keep doing it.

I guess I know a lot of people won't agree with me and I'm fine with that, as I had the same position on this for many, many years, so it's not like I'm throwing rocks at it, but I do not trust the system on this at all to be correct.

35 exonerations match your current filters:​

#	Name	State	Race	Convicted	Exonerated	Years Between	Exoneration Procedure	Reason	DNA
144	Reginald Griffin	Missouri	Black	1983	2013	30	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
145	Glenn Ford	Louisiana	Black	1984	2014	30	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No
146	Carl Dausch	Florida	White	2012	2014	2	Acquitted	False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Insufficient Evidence	No
147	Henry McCollum	North Carolina	Black	1984	2014	30	Charges Dismissed	False Confession Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	Yes
148	Leon Brown	North Carolina	Black	1984	2014	30	Charges Dismissed	False Confession Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	Yes
149	Ricky Jackson	Ohio	Black	1975	2014	39	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
150	Wiley Bridgeman	Ohio	Black	1975	2014	39	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
151	Kwame Ajamu	Ohio	Black	1975	2014	39	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
152	Debra Milke	Arizona	White	1990	2015	25	Charges Dismissed	False Confession Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
153	Anthony Hinton	Alabama	Black	1985	2015	30	Charges Dismissed	Mistaken Witness Identification False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Inadequate Legal Defense	No
154	Willie Manning	Mississippi	Black	1994	2015	21	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
155	Alfred Brown	Texas	Black	2005	2015	10	Charges Dismissed	Mistaken Witness Identification Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
156	Larry Lee	Georgia	White	1987	2015	28	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No
157	Derral Hodgkins	Florida	White	2013	2015	2	Appellate Acquittal	Insufficient Evidence	No
158	Isaiah McCoy	Delaware	Black	2012	2017	5	Acquitted	Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
159	Rodricus Crawford	Louisiana	Black	2013	2017	4	Charges Dismissed	False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct	No
160	Ralph Wright	Florida	Black	2014	2017	3	Appellate Acquittal	Official Misconduct Insufficient Evidence	No
161	Rickey Newman	Arkansas	White	2002	2017	15	Charges Dismissed	False Confession Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	Yes
162	Gabriel Solache	Illinois	Latinx	2000	2017	17	Charges Dismissed	False Confession Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No
163	Vicente Benavides	California	Latinx	1993	2018	25	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No
164	Clemente Aguirre-Jarquin	Florida	Latinx	2006	2018	12	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Inadequate Legal Defense	Yes
165	Clifford Williams	Florida	Black	1976	2019	43	Charges Dismissed	Mistaken Witness Identification Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No
166	Charles Finch	North Carolina	Black	1976	2019	43	Charges Dismissed	Mistaken Witness Identification Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct	No
167	Christopher Williams	Pennsylvania	Black	1993	2019	26	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No
168	Paul Browning	Nevada	Black	1986	2020	34	Charges Dismissed	Mistaken Witness Identification Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	Yes
169	Walter Ogrod	Pennsylvania	White	1996	2020	24	Charges Dismissed	False Confession Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	Yes
170	Kareem Johnson	Pennsylvania	Black	2007	2020	13	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	Yes
171	Curtis Flowers	Mississippi	Black	1997	2020	23	Charges Dismissed	Mistaken Witness Identification Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct	No
172	Robert DuBoise	Florida	White	1985	2020	35	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct	Yes
173	Roderick Johnson	Pennsylvania	Black	1997	2020	23	Charges Dismissed	False Confession Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
174	Barry Williams	California	Black	1986	2021	35	Charges Dismissed	Mistaken Witness Identification Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No
187	Eddie Howard	Mississippi	Black	1994	2021	27	Charges Dismissed	False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct	Yes
188	Sherwood Brown	Mississippi	Black	1995	2021	26	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence	Yes
189	Samuel Randolph	Pennsylvania	Black	2003	2022	19	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No
190	Marilyn Mulero	Illinois	Latinx	1993	2022	29	Charges Dismissed	False Confession Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No

 

[Lord Long Rod]

If someone claims to be against "Big Government" this should be a no-brainer and they shouldn't want government anywhere near making these decisions of life and death.

Dude, I wish you would share your secret on how you get your words to BOLD like that!

 

[Lord Long Rod]

ED

 

[Ray From Cleveland]

Dude, I wish you would share your secret on how you get your words to BOLD like that!

Highlight the word(s) and hit the "B" button on top of the reply window

 

[Likkmee]

Hoping for an interesting, illuminating conversation here.

The one major issue I struggle the most with is the death penalty. My impulse is to be against the death penalty, because (a) I don't see it as a deterrent, and (b) because I kinda like the idea of letting someone rot for killing someone else. HOWEVER, if someone I love were murdered, I may want that killer to be made dead ASAP. I've never been in that position, so I can't tell how I would react.

What's yours?

10 facts about the death penalty in the U.S.

Here’s a closer look at public opinion on the death penalty, as well as key facts about the nation’s use of capital punishment.

www.pewresearch.org

I cant walk down the beach nekkid. I leave a track between my feetzprintage. It's hard being me.

 

[Tumblin Tumbleweed]

Life in prison is cheaper because the anti-death penalty people figure in every cent in which includes how much it costs us to keep them in prison for 10,12 or 15 years during their appeals process. For open and shut cases all appeals processes should be exhausted in one year or less.

When we used firing squads there was no F-up and much cheaper and humane as well.

South Carolina, Mississippi, Oklahoma and Utah still allow execution by firing squad.

 

[Woodznutz]

I cant walk down the beach nekkid. I leave a track between my feetzprintage. It's hard being me.

You have a tail?

 

[Woodznutz]

Agreed. Some of these POS should be fed into a wood chipper.

Thing is I've trolled the database of these people that have been exonerated. Most common reason given as one of many for these being overturned is official misconduct.

Here's what I mean. Just some of the more recent exonerations. It is these people, in some cases in which DNA evidence was used, that are getting screwed. And it's people doing it. And, IMO, people will keep doing it.

I guess I know a lot of people won't agree with me and I'm fine with that, as I had the same position on this for many, many years, so it's not like I'm throwing rocks at it, but I do not trust the system on this at all to be correct.

35 exonerations match your current filters:​

#	Name	State	Race	Convicted	Exonerated	Years Between	Exoneration Procedure	Reason	DNA
144	Reginald Griffin	Missouri	Black	1983	2013	30	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
145	Glenn Ford	Louisiana	Black	1984	2014	30	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No
146	Carl Dausch	Florida	White	2012	2014	2	Acquitted	False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Insufficient Evidence	No
147	Henry McCollum	North Carolina	Black	1984	2014	30	Charges Dismissed	False Confession Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	Yes
148	Leon Brown	North Carolina	Black	1984	2014	30	Charges Dismissed	False Confession Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	Yes
149	Ricky Jackson	Ohio	Black	1975	2014	39	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
150	Wiley Bridgeman	Ohio	Black	1975	2014	39	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
151	Kwame Ajamu	Ohio	Black	1975	2014	39	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
152	Debra Milke	Arizona	White	1990	2015	25	Charges Dismissed	False Confession Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
153	Anthony Hinton	Alabama	Black	1985	2015	30	Charges Dismissed	Mistaken Witness Identification False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Inadequate Legal Defense	No
154	Willie Manning	Mississippi	Black	1994	2015	21	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
155	Alfred Brown	Texas	Black	2005	2015	10	Charges Dismissed	Mistaken Witness Identification Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
156	Larry Lee	Georgia	White	1987	2015	28	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No
157	Derral Hodgkins	Florida	White	2013	2015	2	Appellate Acquittal	Insufficient Evidence	No
158	Isaiah McCoy	Delaware	Black	2012	2017	5	Acquitted	Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
159	Rodricus Crawford	Louisiana	Black	2013	2017	4	Charges Dismissed	False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct	No
160	Ralph Wright	Florida	Black	2014	2017	3	Appellate Acquittal	Official Misconduct Insufficient Evidence	No
161	Rickey Newman	Arkansas	White	2002	2017	15	Charges Dismissed	False Confession Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	Yes
162	Gabriel Solache	Illinois	Latinx	2000	2017	17	Charges Dismissed	False Confession Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No
163	Vicente Benavides	California	Latinx	1993	2018	25	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No
164	Clemente Aguirre-Jarquin	Florida	Latinx	2006	2018	12	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Inadequate Legal Defense	Yes
165	Clifford Williams	Florida	Black	1976	2019	43	Charges Dismissed	Mistaken Witness Identification Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No
166	Charles Finch	North Carolina	Black	1976	2019	43	Charges Dismissed	Mistaken Witness Identification Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct	No
167	Christopher Williams	Pennsylvania	Black	1993	2019	26	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No
168	Paul Browning	Nevada	Black	1986	2020	34	Charges Dismissed	Mistaken Witness Identification Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	Yes
169	Walter Ogrod	Pennsylvania	White	1996	2020	24	Charges Dismissed	False Confession Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	Yes
170	Kareem Johnson	Pennsylvania	Black	2007	2020	13	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	Yes
171	Curtis Flowers	Mississippi	Black	1997	2020	23	Charges Dismissed	Mistaken Witness Identification Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct	No
172	Robert DuBoise	Florida	White	1985	2020	35	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct	Yes
173	Roderick Johnson	Pennsylvania	Black	1997	2020	23	Charges Dismissed	False Confession Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct	No
174	Barry Williams	California	Black	1986	2021	35	Charges Dismissed	Mistaken Witness Identification Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No
187	Eddie Howard	Mississippi	Black	1994	2021	27	Charges Dismissed	False or Misleading Forensic Evidence Official Misconduct	Yes
188	Sherwood Brown	Mississippi	Black	1995	2021	26	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation False or Misleading Forensic Evidence	Yes
189	Samuel Randolph	Pennsylvania	Black	2003	2022	19	Charges Dismissed	Perjury or False Accusation Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No
190	Marilyn Mulero	Illinois	Latinx	1993	2022	29	Charges Dismissed	False Confession Official Misconduct Inadequate Legal Defense	No

How many had evidence of prosecutorial misconduct?

 

[Fueri]

How many had evidence of prosecutorial misconduct?

Well, I don't know, but the first one I looked into, top one on that list, had this:

"Prosecutors withheld evidence that guards had confiscated a sharpened screwdriver from another inmate, Jeffrey Smith, immediately after the stabbing."