What profession is blamed for $850 billion in Unnecessary Health Care Costs?

[JoeB131]

You provided a link that TOTALLY reinforces the statement:

Fear of lawsuits cause $850 billion a year in defensive medicine practices!!!

No, it makes doctors do their fucking jobs.

Which is kind of awesome. But I tell you what, let's have special doctors who will be immune to lawsuits, no matter how bad they fuck up, and have them only work on Conservatives.

That will weed out the herd pretty quick.

 

[healthmyths]

Face it!

Which group do you think you'd go see to save your life?

Lawyers or Doctors.
Which group are you angry at and want to see them sued constantly and all the time taking away from possibly saving lives? Doctors!

Brilliant! Hope sometime when a doctor is working to save your life you tell them to "do their fucking jobs"!

 

[JoeB131]

Face it!

Which group do you think you'd go see to save your life?

Lawyers or Doctors.
Which group are you angry at and want to see them sued constantly and all the time taking away from possibly saving lives? Doctors!

Brilliant! Hope sometime when a doctor is working to save your life you tell them to "do their fucking jobs"!

I will if they fuck up.

Buddy of mine was in a car accident, but he didn't think he was hurt at the time. Then a few months later, he started having back trouble. The doctors sent him in for a very expensive MRI because they had an agreement with the clinic that performs them. When that came up with nothing, he got a referral to a physical therapist, who figured out during their first session that he had a rib that was knocked out of place.

Had the doctor DONE HIS JOB, they'd have figured out that was the problem early on before the guy did an expensive test and failed to solve the problem.

Again, I want the doctors to be afraid of lawyers. I want them doing due diligence.

Because when you have 98,000 deaths a year due to medical mistakes, someone isn't doing their damned job.

 

[healthmyths]

Face it!

Which group do you think you'd go see to save your life?

Lawyers or Doctors.
Which group are you angry at and want to see them sued constantly and all the time taking away from possibly saving lives? Doctors!

Brilliant! Hope sometime when a doctor is working to save your life you tell them to "do their fucking jobs"!

I will if they fuck up.

Buddy of mine was in a car accident, but he didn't think he was hurt at the time. Then a few months later, he started having back trouble. The doctors sent him in for a very expensive MRI because they had an agreement with the clinic that performs them. When that came up with nothing, he got a referral to a physical therapist, who figured out during their first session that he had a rib that was knocked out of place.

Had the doctor DONE HIS JOB, they'd have figured out that was the problem early on before the guy did an expensive test and failed to solve the problem.

Again, I want the doctors to be afraid of lawyers. I want them doing due diligence.

Because when you have 98,000 deaths a year due to medical mistakes, someone isn't doing their damned job.

Right. ONE example. 98,000 deaths out of 1,000,000,000 is 0.0098% deaths.

• Number of visits: 1.0 billion
• Number of visits per 100 persons: 332.2
• Percent of visits made to primary care physicians: 55.5%

FastStats

Also NO doctor gets any money from referring MRI patients. It's called "STARKE Law" something again you being so ignorant is obviously unaware of be forbidden!

Again... I certainly hope you tell the doctor that is looking at your MRI "do your fucking job"!

 

[JoeB131]

Right. ONE example. 98,000 deaths out of 1,000,000,000 is 0.0098% deaths.

• Number of visits: 1.0 billion
• Number of visits per 100 persons: 332.2
• Percent of visits made to primary care physicians: 55.5%

FastStats

Also NO doctor gets any money from referring MRI patients. It's called "STARKE Law" something again you being so ignorant is obviously unaware of be forbidden!

Again... I certainly hope you tell the doctor that is looking at your MRI "do your fucking job"!

Naw, I'll probably just fire him and get someone else.

But 98,000 deaths are really a lot of deaths due to incompetence. And that's just the deaths. I wasn't even getting into people who get the wrong leg chopped off or the lady who had a healthy breast removed because they did a test wrong.

13 Disturbing Cases of Medical Malpractice

9) Surgeons Forget Their Tools Inside Patient
Donald Church, 49, was lucky enough to have had the anesthesia correctly administered during his June 2000 surgery at Washington Medical Center in 2000. The surgery was intended to have removed a tumor located in his abdomen. The tumor was removed. In its stead was left another souvenir, a 13 inch long metal retractor. Doctors at the hospital admitted to accidentally leaving the retractor inside of Mr. Church. It was not the first time that such an "accident" had occurred in the hospital. Four other documented incidences had happened at the hospital between the years of 1997 and 2000. The retractor was removed shortly after its discovery, and Mr. Church did not suffer any long term health effects from the mistake. A settlement was reached between the two parties for the amount of $97,000.

In your world, that guy should have gotten nothing, I suppose.

 

[Indeependent]

We don't have Drs anymore, we have Treating Providers forced by their MBA owners to Bill as much as possible.

 

[healthmyths]

Right. ONE example. 98,000 deaths out of 1,000,000,000 is 0.0098% deaths.

• Number of visits: 1.0 billion
• Number of visits per 100 persons: 332.2
• Percent of visits made to primary care physicians: 55.5%

FastStats

Also NO doctor gets any money from referring MRI patients. It's called "STARKE Law" something again you being so ignorant is obviously unaware of be forbidden!

Again... I certainly hope you tell the doctor that is looking at your MRI "do your fucking job"!

Naw, I'll probably just fire him and get someone else.

But 98,000 deaths are really a lot of deaths due to incompetence. And that's just the deaths. I wasn't even getting into people who get the wrong leg chopped off or the lady who had a healthy breast removed because they did a test wrong.

13 Disturbing Cases of Medical Malpractice

9) Surgeons Forget Their Tools Inside Patient
Donald Church, 49, was lucky enough to have had the anesthesia correctly administered during his June 2000 surgery at Washington Medical Center in 2000. The surgery was intended to have removed a tumor located in his abdomen. The tumor was removed. In its stead was left another souvenir, a 13 inch long metal retractor. Doctors at the hospital admitted to accidentally leaving the retractor inside of Mr. Church. It was not the first time that such an "accident" had occurred in the hospital. Four other documented incidences had happened at the hospital between the years of 1997 and 2000. The retractor was removed shortly after its discovery, and Mr. Church did not suffer any long term health effects from the mistake. A settlement was reached between the two parties for the amount of $97,000.

In your world, that guy should have gotten nothing, I suppose.

And you are misleading the premise!
Again FACTS why do you care to exaggerate. Blow out of proportion? Are you a lawyer?

According to the U.S. Department of Health Services there were about 780,000 licensed physicians in the United States in 2008, so that figure seems good.

Finding statistics that everybody agrees with regarding deaths caused by doctors is a little more difficult.
Dr. J. Mercola released a book in 2000 titled Doctors are the Third Leading Cause of Death in the US, Causing 250,000 Deaths Every Year.
His breakdown, however, largely focuses on errors in hospitals and includes 12,000 deaths by unnecessary surgery, 7,000 due to medication errors in hospitals, 20,000 due to other errors in hospitals, 80,000 from infections in hospitals, and 106,000 from the negative effects of medications.
Doctors More Dangerous Than Gun Owners-Humorous Fiction!
So let's break these statistics down to see exactly how many deaths directly attributed to doctors.
12,000 unnecessary surgeries... OK doctors fault.
7,000 medication errors... not doctors fault misread prescription, mistakes in pharmacy,etc.
20,000, hospital errors... NOT doctors
80,000 infections... what did the doctor have to do with that?
106,000 medications. Ok some might be doctors let's say guessing like you did... 20% or 20,000!
So out of the 250,000 less then 32,000 directly doctors fault!
That leaves 218,000 NOT attributed!
See how stupid it was to blame the doctors entirely? Dumb people make DUMB comments!

 

[JoeB131]

And you are misleading the premise!
Again FACTS why do you care to exaggerate. Blow out of proportion? Are you a lawyer?

According to the U.S. Department of Health Services there were about 780,000 licensed physicians in the United States in 2008, so that figure seems good.

Hmmm.... 780K doctors vs. 98K deaths due to medical mistakes? That's not really good numbers, guy, that's like 1 out of 8. Of course, it's not that bad, because most of the Malpractice is committed by a very small group of doctors.

I kind of wonder how many there would be if these guys weren't doing those 'unnecessary' tests to find drug interactions or mistakes.

 

[healthmyths]

And you are misleading the premise!
Again FACTS why do you care to exaggerate. Blow out of proportion? Are you a lawyer?

According to the U.S. Department of Health Services there were about 780,000 licensed physicians in the United States in 2008, so that figure seems good.

Hmmm.... 780K doctors vs. 98K deaths due to medical mistakes? That's not really good numbers, guy, that's like 1 out of 8. Of course, it's not that bad, because most of the Malpractice is committed by a very small group of doctors.

I kind of wonder how many there would be if these guys weren't doing those 'unnecessary' tests to find drug interactions or mistakes.

The latest numbers are dramatically higher than those in the Institute of Medicine's 1999 report,To Err is Human: Building A Safer Health System,
which estimated that up to 98,000 people a year die because of hospital mistakes.

Hospital medical errors now the third leading cause of death in the U.S.
NOT DOCTORS you idiot!
READ CAREFULLY!

 

[Freewill]

Let me get this straight, the VA, who I don't think work for profit, don't order additional testing. Yet those who would reap a profit from ordering tests do. Interesting. Has anyone ever sued a doctor for simply not getting a test? I would like to read about that situation. Sounds to me that the doctors are either ordering test because they can, or they have no faith in their own ability to diagnose a condition.

 

[healthmyths]

Let me get this straight, the VA, who I don't think work for profit, don't order additional testing. Yet those who would reap a profit from ordering tests do. Interesting. Has anyone ever sued a doctor for simply not getting a test? I would like to read about that situation. Sounds to me that the doctors are either ordering test because they can, or they have no faith in their own ability to diagnose a condition.

NO you seem to ignore what the physicians are telling you in the below responses!

Seventy-five percent of physicians say they practice defensive medicine, and most do so to avoid being named in potential malpractice lawsuits, according to a new survey from Jackson Healthcare.

The survey is based on responses from 1,548 physicians from August 31 through October 31.
Of those physicians who indicated they practice defensive medicine, here are the top 10 reasons why. Respondents chose all that applied.

1. To avoid being named in a potential lawsuit — 78 percent.
2. Defensive medicine has become the new "standard of care" — 61 percent.
3. Patient or family demands that everything humanly possible be done — 59 percent.
4. To adhere to the standard of perfection to which patients hold physicians. Any bad result is the physician's fault — 53 percent.
5. I do not want to risk my personal finances — 52 percent.
6. Fear of missing something. I don't want to make a mistake or be wrong — 52 percent.
7. To protect my good name. I do not wish to risk my reputation — 48 percent.
8. I have been named in a medical malpractice lawsuit and do not wish to repeat the experience — 41 percent.
9. Colleagues have been named in (a) medical malpractice lawsuit(s) and I saw what they went through to defend themselves. I don't want that to happen to me — 41 percent.
10. Peer pressure. Other physicians of my specialty are doing it, and I'm afraid I'll look "deficient" by comparison if I do not — 24 percent.

Top 10 Reasons Physicians Practice Defensive Medicine

Now as to the FACTs regarding results of Medical lawsuits...

A 2006 study concluded that claims without evidence of error "are not uncommon, but most [72%] are denied compensation.
The vast majority of expenditures [54%] go toward litigation over errors and payment of them. The overhead costs of malpractice litigation are exorbitant."
Medical malpractice in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Let's go Swedish, or French, or Japanese with our healthcare and cut the whole bill in half.

Obamacare was supposed to bring costs down.

What happened ?

 

[Sun Devil 92]

View attachment 57451

http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/8968/defensivemedicine_ebook_final.pdf

What's worse is that Medical Schools are basically teaching this to new doctors.

This means that they don't know how to discriminate in ordering tests.

You'll see argument after argument that Tort Reform does not lower costs.

And this is why.

 

[Sun Devil 92]

Let's go Swedish, or French, or Japanese with our healthcare and cut the whole bill in half.

Oh, and feel free to move to any one of these countries.

We'll help you pack.

 

[Greenbeard]

View attachment 57451

http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/8968/defensivemedicine_ebook_final.pdf

Let me make sure I follow your premise.

The nation's doctors are billing for and accepting $850 billion dollars for knowingly and unethically providing unnecessary services.

If we all promise to shield them from any liability for negligence, malice, incompetence, or whatever from now on, they'll say "We're satisfied! We'll turn off the spigot on the $850 billion revenue stream we've been enjoying!" Is that what you're suggesting?

If you start with the premises that (1) doctors act unethically for financial reasons, (2) they make a lot of money doing so ($850 billion is a huge number), then how exactly does making it even easier for them to act unethically and provide care detached from patient needs or health going to solve your problem?

 

[healthmyths]

View attachment 57451

http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/8968/defensivemedicine_ebook_final.pdf

Let me make sure I follow your premise.

The nation's doctors are billing for and accepting $850 billion dollars for knowingly and unethically providing unnecessary services.

If we all promise to shield them from any liability for negligence, malice, incompetence, or whatever from now on, they'll say "We're satisfied! We'll turn off the spigot on the $850 billion revenue stream we've been enjoying!" Is that what you're suggesting?

If you start with the premises that (1) doctors act unethically for financial reasons, (2) they make a lot of money doing so ($850 billion is a huge number), then how exactly does making it even easier for them to act unethically and provide care detached from patient needs or health going to solve your problem?

I guess you need a little more education.

A doctor who refers a patient for a MRI doesn't make any money off the MRI. Can't as it is called the Starke Law.

1. 
   The Stark law is a limitation on certain physician referrals. It prohibits physician referrals of designated health services ("DHS") for Medicare and Medicaid patients if the physician (or an immediate family member) has a financial relationship with that entity.
   Stark Law - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
   Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaStark_Law
   

A doctor referring a patient to a specialists makes nothing off the referral.
The entire $850 billion is paid by the insurance companies to those providers that the physicians refer them to and the physicians make no money again Starke Law!
You understand now why as I showed before and I guess you don't still comprehend:

The survey is based on responses from 1,548 physicians from August 31 through October 31.
Of those physicians who indicated they practice defensive medicine, here are the top 10 reasons why. Respondents chose all that applied.

1. To avoid being named in a potential lawsuit — 78 percent.
2. Defensive medicine has become the new "standard of care" — 61 percent.
3. Patient or family demands that everything humanly possible be done — 59 percent.
4. To adhere to the standard of perfection to which patients hold physicians. Any bad result is the physician's fault — 53 percent.
5. I do not want to risk my personal finances — 52 percent.
6. Fear of missing something. I don't want to make a mistake or be wrong — 52 percent.
7. To protect my good name. I do not wish to risk my reputation — 48 percent.
8. I have been named in a medical malpractice lawsuit and do not wish to repeat the experience — 41 percent.
9. Colleagues have been named in (a) medical malpractice lawsuit(s) and I saw what they went through to defend themselves. I don't want that to happen to me — 41 percent.
10. Peer pressure. Other physicians of my specialty are doing it, and I'm afraid I'll look "deficient" by comparison if I do not — 24 percent.

Top 10 Reasons Physicians Practice Defensive Medicine

IS THAT ANY CLEARER?

 

[JoeB131]

The latest numbers are dramatically higher than those in the Institute of Medicine's 1999 report,To Err is Human: Building A Safer Health System,
which estimated that up to 98,000 people a year die because of hospital mistakes.

Hospital medical errors now the third leading cause of death in the U.S.
NOT DOCTORS you idiot!
READ CAREFULLY!

And not all Malpractice suits are against Doctors, they are against hospitals, usually.

What you guys want is to take away the people who are killed and maimed by the medical industry to be able to get compensation for their losses.

Even though there is no evidence that will improve health care (It will probably make it worse) or bring down costs (Texas did exactly what you suggest and costs INCREASED).

 

[Silhouette]

View attachment 57451

http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/8968/defensivemedicine_ebook_final.pdf

One more argument for universal healthcare. The waste would be reduced tenfold. If We controlled Our Own healthcare, We could enact tort reform as We saw fit. Pay for it with sales taxes on alcohol, tobacco and sugar products. Article 1, Section 8...

 

[healthmyths]

The latest numbers are dramatically higher than those in the Institute of Medicine's 1999 report,To Err is Human: Building A Safer Health System,
which estimated that up to 98,000 people a year die because of hospital mistakes.

Hospital medical errors now the third leading cause of death in the U.S.
NOT DOCTORS you idiot!
READ CAREFULLY!

And not all Malpractice suits are against Doctors, they are against hospitals, usually.

What you guys want is to take away the people who are killed and maimed by the medical industry to be able to get compensation for their losses.

Even though there is no evidence that will improve health care (It will probably make it worse) or bring down costs (Texas did exactly what you suggest and costs INCREASED).

Once again your OPINION is totally whacked and WRONG as I can confidently say because YOU spout off something you made up and obviously unlike me you never
use links to substantiate your unsupported opinion.

You said not all suits are against doctors and now you are say mostly against hospitals?
So when the doctors tell you they are practicing defensive medicine you think they are trying to protect hospitals???


Why Settle?
Over 90% of medical malpractice cases settle out of court, and for good reason. Neither side wants to go to court, because it is expensive and time-consuming. Generally, only those cases where neither side can agree on a settlement amount will go to trial, and even then it is usually a last option.

Settlement Amounts vs. Jury Awards
The average out of court settlement for a medical malpractice lawsuit is just over $425,000, while the average jury award is now over $1 Million. So why not go to trial every time?The fact is that medical malpractice litigation is very expensive, time consuming and not guaranteed.
If an attorney passes on a settlement offer only to find that a detail in the case may jeopardize its success, then both that attorney and their client loses.
Length and Process of a Medical Malpractice Suit | Lawfirms.com

$500,000 Awarded to Patient for Doctor's Defamatory Remarks During Surgery
Washington, DC: An unidentified patient in Virginia has been awarded $500,000 by a jury hearing his medical malpractice lawsuit which claims his anesthesiologist made defamatory comments while he was under sedation for a colonoscopy. The award includes $200,000 in punitive damages.

The unidentified plaintiff, referred to as DB, had left his smart phone on record so he could ensure he got his doctor’s post surgical instructions, according to the Washington Post. However, during the procedure his trousers were placed under him, which resulted in the inadvertent recording, court papers indicate.

When DB listened to the recording on his way home from the surgery, he discovered Dr. Tiffany Ingham mocking and disparaging him. Among the comments was a referral to a rash on the plaintiff’s penis, which Ingham incorrectly suggested indicated syphilis and tuberculosis. (The jury awarded $50,000 in compensatory damages for defamation for the doctor’s remarks about each of these diseases, and another $200,000 for overall medical malpractice.) Ingham also allegedly said she was going to note in the man’s chart that he had hemorrhoids, which he didn’t.

DB also sued a gastroenterologist, Soloman Shah, who, while present for the procedure, did not directly participate in most of the commentary by Ingham. That portion of the case was dismissed.
$500,000 Awarded to Patient for Doctor's Defamatory Remarks During Surgery
With this kind of legal activities NOW is there any wonder $850 billion a year in wasted duplicate defensive medicine practices are paid?

 

[healthmyths]

View attachment 57451

http://www.jacksonhealthcare.com/media/8968/defensivemedicine_ebook_final.pdf

One more argument for universal healthcare. The waste would be reduced tenfold. If We controlled Our Own healthcare, We could enact tort reform as We saw fit. Pay for it with sales taxes on alcohol, tobacco and sugar products. Article 1, Section 8...

Wrong!
OK you like Obama want to see 1,400 companies go out of business right? You want to see $100 billion in tax revenues to Federal/state/local as well as your property taxes increase. Right? In addition you want 450,000 people out of work collecting for 99 weeks unemployment checks! Right?
And for what purpose so Obama can destroy another industry?
LOOK there never were 46 million uninsured Americans as Obama lied.
He later amended this to 36 million AFTER ACA was passed by admitting 10 million were not citizens!
Income, Poverty and Health Insurance Coverage in the United States: 2009 - Income & Wealth - Newsroom - U.S. Census Bureau

He ignored as most people did 14 million that were Eligible for MEDICAID--- BEFORE ACA!
Obama failed to get 14 million people eligible for Medicaid enrolled. That's all that is needed. That leaves 22 million.
there was NO NEED for Obamacare to cover these 14 million all they need do is REGISTER!!!
http://coverageforall.org/pdf/BC-BS_Uninsured-America.pdf
Finally he counted 18 million under 34 that didn't NEED insurance. They could afford employers' plans as they make over $50k. That leaves 4 million.
CRISIS OF THE UNINSURED: 2009
Now the ONLY thing that needed to be done was tax lawyers 10% of their $270 billion a year that would reduce as the "defensive medicine costs of $850 billion" reduced.
Take the $27 billion and pay for the 4 million that truly wanted and needed health insurance!
Why is that complicated?

Everything else stays the same! Illegals can't get insurance. 14 million go on Medicaid. 18 million don't need.
Defensive medicine costs declines insurance companies lower premiums because of STATE regulatory laws regarding premiums called medical liability ratio!

It is that simple!