What right does he have to demand I lose my rights?

[Spoonman]

Food for thought -

one of the current arguments going on is whether the framers intended the civilian population to be as well armed as the government/military and strong enought to challenge them.

Just remember these framers won our independence by challenging a tyranical government that was not properly representing the people but where representing special interests. kind of makes sense their legislation would pave the way for future generations to be able to do the same thing.

Um, no, that's retarded.

The Framers won our independence because they were a bunch of slave-raping assholes who didn't want to pay for a war they started.

^^^^^ the ultimate stupid answer ^^^^^^^^^

 

[RandallFlagg]

Food for thought -

one of the current arguments going on is whether the framers intended the civilian population to be as well armed as the government/military and strong enought to challenge them.

Just remember these framers won our independence by challenging a tyranical government that was not properly representing the people but where representing special interests. kind of makes sense their legislation would pave the way for future generations to be able to do the same thing.

Um, no, that's retarded.

The Framers won our independence because they were a bunch of slave-raping assholes who didn't want to pay for a war they started.

The only retarded "thing" in this thread is your post. I'll take a second, once more, and ask you this: If you hate this country as much as you claim you do, you piece of worthless gutter trash, why not pack up your mobile home and head to another country?

I promise you...you would NOT be missed.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Yes, ban guns, ban knives, and ban anything that could possibly be used as a weapon.

And before you conservatards flip out and post some stupid comment like, "durrr how culd we inforce dat ur dum lol", Australia already has exactly this policy in place. Hammers are considered tightly-regulated weapons of mass destruction there because they, too, can be used as weapons.

It's time for America to step into the 21st Century and outlaw all weapons, as well as anything else that kills people.

right---ban cars.

Better idea -- all handguns and assault weapons registered with the state or feds.

All guns have a pink slip and transfer of ownership must be recorded or gun is confiscated and destroyed.

you have one year to comply -- after that, all non-registered guns are a federal crime.

California has a registry of all legally purchased firearms. The police chose not to use it. They have a law that allows the police to send a person to mental lock down for 3 days if suspected of a mental problem, they did not do it. ALL firearms in California are back ground checked before purchase and handguns have a 10 day waiting period before you can legally pick them up. ALl sales required to go through a dealer so all sales are background checked.

None of that helped in this case, so explain why doing it else where will suddenly help?

 

[JoeB131]

Food for thought -

one of the current arguments going on is whether the framers intended the civilian population to be as well armed as the government/military and strong enought to challenge them.

Just remember these framers won our independence by challenging a tyranical government that was not properly representing the people but where representing special interests. kind of makes sense their legislation would pave the way for future generations to be able to do the same thing.

Um, no, that's retarded.

The Framers won our independence because they were a bunch of slave-raping assholes who didn't want to pay for a war they started.

The only retarded "thing" in this thread is your post. I'll take a second, once more, and ask you this: If you hate this country as much as you claim you do, you piece of worthless gutter trash, why not pack up your mobile home and head to another country?

I promise you...you would NOT be missed.

I love my country.

I just don't delude myself to it's flaws.

A country that starts counting blacks as 3/5th of a white and has legal slavery despite a bunch of noise about "liberty" and "equality", is a country that started on a flaw.

I don't have a grade school cartoonish view of the founding of this country.

We have a lot of things to fix. Thankfully, with the Republican Party self-destructing, it will be a lot easier to fix these things.

 

[RKMBrown]

Um, no, that's retarded.

The Framers won our independence because they were a bunch of slave-raping assholes who didn't want to pay for a war they started.

The only retarded "thing" in this thread is your post. I'll take a second, once more, and ask you this: If you hate this country as much as you claim you do, you piece of worthless gutter trash, why not pack up your mobile home and head to another country?

I promise you...you would NOT be missed.

I love my country.

I just don't delude myself to it's flaws.

A country that starts counting blacks as 3/5th of a white and has legal slavery despite a bunch of noise about "liberty" and "equality", is a country that started on a flaw.

I don't have a grade school cartoonish view of the founding of this country.

We have a lot of things to fix. Thankfully, with the Republican Party self-destructing, it will be a lot easier to fix these things.

We still have legal slavery, see the 16th amendment. Back at the start of the country, voters for the most part were property owners. Giving a non-property owner, such as a slave was probably seen as a gift by them, not an insult as you are indicating.

 

[RandallFlagg]

Um, no, that's retarded.

The Framers won our independence because they were a bunch of slave-raping assholes who didn't want to pay for a war they started.

The only retarded "thing" in this thread is your post. I'll take a second, once more, and ask you this: If you hate this country as much as you claim you do, you piece of worthless gutter trash, why not pack up your mobile home and head to another country?

I promise you...you would NOT be missed.

I love my country.

I just don't delude myself to it's flaws.

A country that starts counting blacks as 3/5th of a white and has legal slavery despite a bunch of noise about "liberty" and "equality", is a country that started on a flaw.

I don't have a grade school cartoonish view of the founding of this country.

We have a lot of things to fix. Thankfully, with the Republican Party self-destructing, it will be a lot easier to fix these things.

You know, quite honestly, the republicans could completely implode from within - every one of them nearly dead - and YOUR president would STILL hand them the election in November.

You have bigger problems than worrying about republicans. You have an administration that is falling apart in front of your eyes.

 

[Foxfyre]

Saying "everyone knew he was nuts" is not an answer to the question I asked now is it?

So Tell me, Sheep, How aside from mandatory psych evals and the subpoenaing of private records do you propose so called crazy people be stopped from legally buying weapons?

Perhaps we should have a registry of people who take psychotropic drugs and prevent them from wandering around amongst us.

Are psychotropic drugs actually linked to mass shootings? | CCHR International

"Instances of mass violence and mass shootings occur undoubtedly too often. When shootings such as those in Sandy Hook, Columbine, Aurora, and Virginia Tech happen, the blame often falls on gun ownership, violent media, or violent video games.

I believe, as a whole, people are overlooking a variable that could very well be at the root of this problem — psychotropic drugs."

We should also revoke the driver's licenses of everyone who has been in an alcohol or drug treatment program because they are more likely to cause auto fatalities.

Well let's do it right. Let's just revoke driver's licenses of everybody who drinks alcohol. And the problem of alcohol related deaths will be eliminated. Right? Never mind what any other consequences might be. And if we eliminate all automobiles and light trucks, vehicle related fatalities could be reduced to a tiny percentage of deaths in the country.

 

[Plasmaball]

Perhaps we should have a registry of people who take psychotropic drugs and prevent them from wandering around amongst us.

Are psychotropic drugs actually linked to mass shootings? | CCHR International

"Instances of mass violence and mass shootings occur undoubtedly too often. When shootings such as those in Sandy Hook, Columbine, Aurora, and Virginia Tech happen, the blame often falls on gun ownership, violent media, or violent video games.

I believe, as a whole, people are overlooking a variable that could very well be at the root of this problem — psychotropic drugs."

We should also revoke the driver's licenses of everyone who has been in an alcohol or drug treatment program because they are more likely to cause auto fatalities.

Well let's do it right. Let's just revoke driver's licenses of everybody who drinks alcohol. And the problem of alcohol related deaths will be eliminated. Right? Never mind what any other consequences might be. And if we eliminate all automobiles and light trucks, vehicle related fatalities could be reduced to a tiny percentage of deaths in the country.

Hey you posted something stupid

 

[JoeB131]

[

We still have legal slavery, see the 16th amendment. Back at the start of the country, voters for the most part were property owners. Giving a non-property owner, such as a slave was probably seen as a gift by them, not an insult as you are indicating.

i'm not sure if you are confused or retarded.

The 16th Amendment allows an income tax.

 

[JoeB131]

[You know, quite honestly, the republicans could completely implode from within - every one of them nearly dead - and YOUR president would STILL hand them the election in November.

You have bigger problems than worrying about republicans. You have an administration that is falling apart in front of your eyes.

You been spewing that shit for the last five years.

You need to get out of the Hate Radio bubble and talk to some real people.

Here's a hint. Most of them don't care that Bergdahl got sprung or that Granny Teabag didn't get her fraudulent tax deduction.

 

[JoeB131]

So the gun store does the standard NICS background check, gets the OK to sell the gun, and you want to take away his license and steal his inventory?? You are the lunatic in this scenario. The gun dealer did it right. And how the guy acts is not part of the system, here. You have to have actual reasons to deny the sale.

Uh, no, the gun owner didn't "do it right'. He sold three guns to a guy who went on to kill six people.

You make a total fucking example out of this guy, the rest of them will get the message.

but he did pass the background checks you claim you want nationally to solve all our problems. 3 times no less.

His guns were registered, which you also claim will solve our problems

He had a license for all 3 guns, which you also claim will solve all our problems.

and guess what, he was held accountable for his actions.

Sounds like this guy single handedlly shot holes in all of your recommendations.

And thsi is why we don't take you gun grabbing lunatics seriously

Uh, guy, when someone busts your lock, you don't say, "Man, Locks suck. I should just leave my door open."

You get a better fucking lock.

Clearly, if this guy could get a gun, then the controls we have on guns is inadequate.

It really isn't complicated.

 

[RandallFlagg]

[You know, quite honestly, the republicans could completely implode from within - every one of them nearly dead - and YOUR president would STILL hand them the election in November.

You have bigger problems than worrying about republicans. You have an administration that is falling apart in front of your eyes.

You been spewing that shit for the last five years.

You need to get out of the Hate Radio bubble and talk to some real people.

Here's a hint. Most of them don't care that Bergdahl got sprung or that Granny Teabag didn't get her fraudulent tax deduction.

We'll see in November you Nazi.

 

[Andylusion]

Uh, no, the gun owner didn't "do it right'. He sold three guns to a guy who went on to kill six people.

You make a total fucking example out of this guy, the rest of them will get the message.

but he did pass the background checks you claim you want nationally to solve all our problems. 3 times no less.

His guns were registered, which you also claim will solve our problems

He had a license for all 3 guns, which you also claim will solve all our problems.

and guess what, he was held accountable for his actions.

Sounds like this guy single handedlly shot holes in all of your recommendations.

And thsi is why we don't take you gun grabbing lunatics seriously

Uh, guy, when someone busts your lock, you don't say, "Man, Locks suck. I should just leave my door open."

You get a better fucking lock.

Clearly, if this guy could get a gun, then the controls we have on guns is inadequate.

It really isn't complicated.

Unless you plan on turning your home into a replica of Fort Knox, there is no reasonable locking system that someone can't break through.

That said... you are missing the real point, and I'm surprised no one else has said this....

You can't stop criminals from getting guns. It's not possible, anymore than we can stop criminals from selling alcohol during prohibition. Anymore than we can stop criminals from selling illegal drugs today.

AK-47 (AKA Chinese made guns), are available around the world for as little as $57 in some places. Black market weapons are common in every country that has extensive gun control laws. UK, Australia being prime examples.

Further, you can MAKE A GUN at home. It's really not that hard.

The Fire Lance from China was created in the 1400s.
The Musket was made in 1600s.
The First semi-automatic pistol was made in 1890.
We're not talking about space age technology here.

You can mail order from online catalogs, all the parts needed to assemble for yourself a fully automatic 50-round machine gun.

You can even make a 50 Calibur machine gun, powerful enough to take out armored personnel carriers.

You can machine with a home lathe, a gun.

You can print a gun, using a 3D printer.

[ame=http://youtu.be/0GPPxGX8pdA]Criminals smuggle in guns after guns are banned in Australia - YouTube[/ame]

In this video, after Australia banned guns, the black market showed up in speed. In addition to the thousands of illegal black market guns, new home fabricated automatic guns showed up on the streets. at 0:40 seconds, police show, and demonstrate the use of fully automatic home made guns. Extremely lethal, and no amount of gun control could possibly prevent their creation.

Again, the point is, you have only two options. You can disarm the public, so that only criminals are armed, or you can encourage people to defend themselves. Criminals are always far more afraid of a citizen protecting themselves, than police. Police have to follow strict rules of engagement. Citizens only need to feel fear of bodily harm.

Regardless of which of those options you choose, the criminals WILL be armed.

 

[JoeB131]

[You know, quite honestly, the republicans could completely implode from within - every one of them nearly dead - and YOUR president would STILL hand them the election in November.

You have bigger problems than worrying about republicans. You have an administration that is falling apart in front of your eyes.

You been spewing that shit for the last five years.

You need to get out of the Hate Radio bubble and talk to some real people.

Here's a hint. Most of them don't care that Bergdahl got sprung or that Granny Teabag didn't get her fraudulent tax deduction.

We'll see in November you Nazi.

Why? I mean, yeah, I guess you'll win the "Special Olympic Midterms", but you'll still be retarded.

I mean, I honestly hope you guys aren't so far gone that you can't win six red states.

But it will be kind of irrelevent when the Dems come sweeping back in 2016 and clean out all those Teabagger Senators from 2010.

 

[JoeB131]

[

Unless you plan on turning your home into a replica of Fort Knox, there is no reasonable locking system that someone can't break through.

That said... you are missing the real point, and I'm surprised no one else has said this....

You can't stop criminals from getting guns. It's not possible, anymore than we can stop criminals from selling alcohol during prohibition. Anymore than we can stop criminals from selling illegal drugs today.
....
Regardless of which of those options you choose, the criminals WILL be armed.

Okay, guy, here's the thing.

Most gun deaths are not caused by criminals.

They are caused by suicides, domestic arguments, and accidents.

i mean I know that you guys are wetting yourselves at the thought of the scary Negro who might be seeking retribution for 400 years of racism, but the reality is, you are far more likely to be killed by an acquaintance or family member who had access to a gun.

 

[Andylusion]

[

Unless you plan on turning your home into a replica of Fort Knox, there is no reasonable locking system that someone can't break through.

That said... you are missing the real point, and I'm surprised no one else has said this....

You can't stop criminals from getting guns. It's not possible, anymore than we can stop criminals from selling alcohol during prohibition. Anymore than we can stop criminals from selling illegal drugs today.
....
Regardless of which of those options you choose, the criminals WILL be armed.

Okay, guy, here's the thing.

Most gun deaths are not caused by criminals.

They are caused by suicides, domestic arguments, and accidents.

i mean I know that you guys are wetting yourselves at the thought of the scary Negro who might be seeking retribution for 400 years of racism, but the reality is, you are far more likely to be killed by an acquaintance or family member who had access to a gun.

But that all misses the point.

Domestic violence isn't a "gun problem", we know this because for centuries men harmed women without guns. Even to this day, only 50% of all domestic murders are committed with guns.

That implies that it's quite easy to kill a women without a gun. There was even a story in Australia, where a man knocked out his wife, and threw her into a vat of Acid.

Now to be honest, I bet that lady likely wished she'd been shot instead.

The point is, especially in the area of Domestic violence, you are not going to stop it with gun control. They will simply find other ways to do it. I can't even find reliable numbers on domestic gun deaths, relative to the total murder rate, so unless you can provide some, I don't think it's nearly that big of a number.

Instead how about you start enforcing the law, and putting murderers to death? Instead of giving them free room and board, put them to death for murder. I think that would be more effective than saying "ok you can't get a gun legally. Please don't kill your girl friend now."

Second, on Suicide, it's still not a gun thing. It's a societal, cultural thing.

Look at that chart of nations with the highest suicide rates. Who is at the top? Japan.

Now look at the list of countries by gun ownership.

Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of the countries on the graph, which has the lowest number of guns per capita? Japan.

Next three on the list, France, Canada, and Germany.

All three of those, have 1/3rd the number of guns we do. France has vastly more suicide, and were about equal to the other two.

BBC News - UK suicide rate rises 'significantly' in 2011

In 2011, after the UK passed massive gun control laws in 1998, suicides dramatically increased.

Leftist: "well that was because of the economic downturn"

Well no duh. But you people on the left claimed that gun control would reduce suicide, right? If you don't, what the hell is your point?

Suicide method statistics in the UK | Lost All Hope: The web's leading suicide resource

51% hanged themselves.
20% drug over dose.
Jumping off a high place, drowning, sharp objects, on and on.

Only 2% killed themselves with a gun.

But..... they all still killed themselves. Gun control didn't stop a single suicide. Not one. Sorry.

However, what gun control did do, was increase gun crime.

After the gun ban was passed, gun crime, and gun homicides, drastically increased. It was over a decade before the increases in police enforcement, and putting up surveillance cameras across the entire country, brought the gun crime down to where it was before the ban.

Thousands on thousands of people were killed because of a gun ban, that didn't prevent a single suicide.

See, the whole point, from the very start is, you can't stop the black market. You can't regulate the black market. That's the whole reason they call it the black market, is because it doesn't follow the law. When you push gun control, you are ONLY going to disarm the lawful public, not the criminals.

 

[RKMBrown]

[

Unless you plan on turning your home into a replica of Fort Knox, there is no reasonable locking system that someone can't break through.

That said... you are missing the real point, and I'm surprised no one else has said this....

You can't stop criminals from getting guns. It's not possible, anymore than we can stop criminals from selling alcohol during prohibition. Anymore than we can stop criminals from selling illegal drugs today.
....
Regardless of which of those options you choose, the criminals WILL be armed.

Okay, guy, here's the thing.

Most gun deaths are not caused by criminals.

They are caused by suicides, domestic arguments, and accidents.

i mean I know that you guys are wetting yourselves at the thought of the scary Negro who might be seeking retribution for 400 years of racism, but the reality is, you are far more likely to be killed by an acquaintance or family member who had access to a gun.

But that all misses the point.

Domestic violence isn't a "gun problem", we know this because for centuries men harmed women without guns. Even to this day, only 50% of all domestic murders are committed with guns.

That implies that it's quite easy to kill a women without a gun. There was even a story in Australia, where a man knocked out his wife, and threw her into a vat of Acid.

Now to be honest, I bet that lady likely wished she'd been shot instead.

The point is, especially in the area of Domestic violence, you are not going to stop it with gun control. They will simply find other ways to do it. I can't even find reliable numbers on domestic gun deaths, relative to the total murder rate, so unless you can provide some, I don't think it's nearly that big of a number.

Instead how about you start enforcing the law, and putting murderers to death? Instead of giving them free room and board, put them to death for murder. I think that would be more effective than saying "ok you can't get a gun legally. Please don't kill your girl friend now."

Second, on Suicide, it's still not a gun thing. It's a societal, cultural thing.

Look at that chart of nations with the highest suicide rates. Who is at the top? Japan.

Now look at the list of countries by gun ownership.

Number of guns per capita by country - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Of the countries on the graph, which has the lowest number of guns per capita? Japan.

Next three on the list, France, Canada, and Germany.

All three of those, have 1/3rd the number of guns we do. France has vastly more suicide, and were about equal to the other two.

BBC News - UK suicide rate rises 'significantly' in 2011

In 2011, after the UK passed massive gun control laws in 1998, suicides dramatically increased.

Leftist: "well that was because of the economic downturn"

Well no duh. But you people on the left claimed that gun control would reduce suicide, right? If you don't, what the hell is your point?

Suicide method statistics in the UK | Lost All Hope: The web's leading suicide resource

51% hanged themselves.
20% drug over dose.
Jumping off a high place, drowning, sharp objects, on and on.

Only 2% killed themselves with a gun.

But..... they all still killed themselves. Gun control didn't stop a single suicide. Not one. Sorry.

However, what gun control did do, was increase gun crime.

After the gun ban was passed, gun crime, and gun homicides, drastically increased. It was over a decade before the increases in police enforcement, and putting up surveillance cameras across the entire country, brought the gun crime down to where it was before the ban.

Thousands on thousands of people were killed because of a gun ban, that didn't prevent a single suicide.

See, the whole point, from the very start is, you can't stop the black market. You can't regulate the black market. That's the whole reason they call it the black market, is because it doesn't follow the law. When you push gun control, you are ONLY going to disarm the lawful public, not the criminals.

You realize you are trying to educate lunatics, right?

 

[JoeB131]

[

But that all misses the point.

Domestic violence isn't a "gun problem", we know this because for centuries men harmed women without guns. Even to this day, only 50% of all domestic murders are committed with guns.

That implies that it's quite easy to kill a women without a gun. There was even a story in Australia, where a man knocked out his wife, and threw her into a vat of Acid.

It's a lot easier to get a gun than a vat of acid. NO, the determined sociopath will find a a way, but the schlub who is upset you drank his last can of Milwaukee's Best is going to be deterred by the lack of a gun.

Instead how about you start enforcing the law, and putting murderers to death? Instead of giving them free room and board, put them to death for murder. I think that would be more effective than saying "ok you can't get a gun legally. Please don't kill your girl friend now."

Uh, no, the Death Penalty has no deterence value at all. Death Penalty States have higher murder rates than non-death penalty states. So Argument fail.

Look at that chart of nations with the highest suicide rates. Who is at the top? Japan.

Japan also has a long history where Suicide is considered honorable. SO that's an argument fail.

See, the whole point, from the very start is, you can't stop the black market. You can't regulate the black market. That's the whole reason they call it the black market, is because it doesn't follow the law. When you push gun control, you are ONLY going to disarm the lawful public, not the criminals.

I'm not worried about the "Criminals". I'm worried about the conceal carry nut who thinks he has a bigger penis because he has a gun.

You don't need a gun, and there's no compelling reason for the rest of us to let you have one.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

[

But that all misses the point.

Domestic violence isn't a "gun problem", we know this because for centuries men harmed women without guns. Even to this day, only 50% of all domestic murders are committed with guns.

That implies that it's quite easy to kill a women without a gun. There was even a story in Australia, where a man knocked out his wife, and threw her into a vat of Acid.

It's a lot easier to get a gun than a vat of acid. NO, the determined sociopath will find a a way, but the schlub who is upset you drank his last can of Milwaukee's Best is going to be deterred by the lack of a gun.

Instead how about you start enforcing the law, and putting murderers to death? Instead of giving them free room and board, put them to death for murder. I think that would be more effective than saying "ok you can't get a gun legally. Please don't kill your girl friend now."

Uh, no, the Death Penalty has no deterence value at all. Death Penalty States have higher murder rates than non-death penalty states. So Argument fail.

Look at that chart of nations with the highest suicide rates. Who is at the top? Japan.

Japan also has a long history where Suicide is considered honorable. SO that's an argument fail.

See, the whole point, from the very start is, you can't stop the black market. You can't regulate the black market. That's the whole reason they call it the black market, is because it doesn't follow the law. When you push gun control, you are ONLY going to disarm the lawful public, not the criminals.

I'm not worried about the "Criminals". I'm worried about the conceal carry nut who thinks he has a bigger penis because he has a gun.

You don't need a gun, and there's no compelling reason for the rest of us to let you have one.

And yet we have no actual cases of concealed carry joe going bat shit crazy and shooting up anything. You have been making the same ignorant claim for years and yet it hasn't happened. But you and your grabber buddies keep making it. As more States authorize conceal and open carry you keep claiming it will like the wild west and it JUST HASN'T happened. You need a new talking point since that one is not only stupid but a lie.

 

[rightwinger]

Tearful plea from victim's dad in deadly rampage

Unbelievable he would deny over 100 million their rights because of one person. And the left will eat it up. How about the 3 he stabbed to death? Shouldn't we ban knives too?

Disgusting.

He has the right because he lost a child to senseless gun violence

He has a dog in the fight and a right to demand something be done