What "rights" does nature give us?

[dblack]

With all this talk about "natural" rights..I was wondering. What are they?

Did you not pass 8th grade civics?

Natural rights are those that do not depend on the existence of government.

Government is not necessary for you to exercise a great number of your rights - as examples, that of free speech, self-defense, self-determination, the ownership of property, to freely practice your religion -- and are therefore all examples of natural rights.

It doesn't get much more clear and concise than that.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You just admitted that freedom does not come from government, people, or society.

I guess that makes me right.

their right to freedom comes out of their minds. In Africa, were they were first enslaved, there was no law to appeal to that I know of. They demanded a right recognized by the US Government

Representative governments are born from the intense desire to keep our natural birthrights and freedoms. This is truly the fight between good and evil albeit I do understand those who believe this is a Godless world often reject good versus evil and the fight they often put forth in various forms.

We are clearly discussing representative government versus non-representative tyranny. No sane, intelligent man or woman chooses to elect a government to further curtail his or her freedoms or rights.

Has happened throughout history

now, godless people do not all reject good vs evil. When people first started talking about birthrights it was a human concept new to society. People rebelled and fought for a recognition from rulers and states of a list of rights. Some of these rights are said to have existed before, as in customs.

All some of us here are saying is that man's nature may be to demand to be free, but Nature itself hands out no rights. How can it? And as far as a creator, that is a religious sentiment...again a human concept.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

You just admitted that freedom does not come from government, people, or society.

I guess that makes me right.

their right to freedom comes out of their minds. In Africa, were they were first enslaved, there was no law to appeal to that I know of. They demanded a right recognized by the US Government

In Africa slavery was a way of life. Tribes often captured members of other tribes and enslaved them, and a major portion of the slave trade was founded upon tribes capturing members of other tribes.

So I guess you believe Africans were savages violating nature's laws? How very White Man of you if you do.

 

[Uncensored2008]

I can't believe this thread is still going. So many so-called "liberals" in such a big hurry to become powerless peasants without rights.

Every last one of them are convinced that THEY will be a ruler with authority over their fellow man. (Whom they bitterly hate.)

Dolts like Dainty and Koios are absolutely sure that if they can just get a dictatorship going, they will be put into a position of power....

 

[Dreamy]

Pure fiction..


The poorest man is now a former public school student indoctrinated in parasitism. He is also aware that we are being governed by a continuing criminal enterprise which has no qualms about incinerating him , his cottage, his family and pets alive . Ask the Davidians.

.

Huh? We are not talking about wealth. We are talking about freedoms and the power that those freedoms offer. The fact that this country is on the wrong track today and has been for many years is a given.

Freedoms?

At the Davidians Trial the government could not identify the gestapo agent who had the warrant nor the reason for the warrant.

82 individuals women and children incinerated alive - their natural right to live ignored - none of the stormtroopers was ever suggested to a Nuremberg type trial.

.

That a government might and often does abuse power is news to you?

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

”The poorest man may in his cottage bid defiance to all the forces of the Crown. It may be frail, its roof may shake; the wind may blow through it; the storm may enter, the rain may enter -- but the King of England cannot enter; all his force dares not cross the threshold of the ruined tenement!”

^^William Pitt in a speech to the British Parliament basically describing that great American principle that every man is his own King. This principle of ownership and property rights is one of the reasons that the US became the greatest and most powerful country on Earth. Freedom=power.

Pure fiction..


The poorest man is now a former public school student indoctrinated in parasitism. He is also aware that we are being governed by a continuing criminal enterprise which has no qualms about incinerating him , his cottage, his family and pets alive . Ask the Davidians.

.

Huh? We are not talking about wealth. We are talking about freedoms and the power that those freedoms offer. The fact that this country is on the wrong track today and has been for many years is a given.

You're replying to the House Idiot

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I can't believe this thread is still going. So many so-called "liberals" in such a big hurry to become powerless peasants without rights.

Nope. The debate is about man's nature and mother nature/creator.

simple enough for you?

 

[Uncensored2008]

Nope. The debate is about man's nature and mother nature/creator.

simple enough for you?

There is no "debate," Dainty.

The SUBJECT is natural rights and the desire of the left to deny them. The thread has largely been you and your fellow doofus getting the shit kicked out of you. Koios at least grasps the depth of his defeat and slunk back into the gutter...

You lack even that level of self-awareness.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

With all this talk about "natural" rights..I was wondering. What are they?

Did you not pass 8th grade civics?

Natural rights are those that do not depend on the existence of government.

Government is not necessary for you to exercise a great number of your rights - as examples, that of free speech, self-defense, self-determination, the ownership of property, to freely practice your religion -- and are therefore all examples of natural rights.

Natural rights exist? Without government man is free to do whatever he can given his circumstances, not what he wants.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The ownership of property? Contract law. Anyone can freely pray, but there were religions which demanded human sacrifice...so much for natural rights and freedoms...unless of course you're as mad as Jefferson and imagine an agricultural utopia where Anglo Saxons roamed Germany and Britain free as birds.

Bumper sticker slogans

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

I can't believe this thread is still going. So many so-called "liberals" in such a big hurry to become powerless peasants without rights.

Every last one of them are convinced that THEY will be a ruler with authority over their fellow man. (Whom they bitterly hate.)

Dolts like Dainty and Koios are absolutely sure that if they can just get a dictatorship going, they will be put into a position of power....

Dingbat alert!!!!!

 

[Koios]

We authorize government to PROTECT our natural rights. These rights are not afforded to us by the government.

Google relativism.

What is google relativism? You have no reply to trump this truth?

A verb (google, as in "to google") followed by a noun (relativism, as in "what to google.)

That help?

 

[M14 Shooter]

With all this talk about "natural" rights..I was wondering. What are they?

Did you not pass 8th grade civics?

Natural rights are those that do not depend on the existence of government.

Government is not necessary for you to exercise a great number of your rights - as examples, that of free speech, self-defense, self-determination, the ownership of property, to freely practice your religion -- and are therefore all examples of natural rights.

Natural rights exist? Without government man is free to do whatever he can given his circumstances, not what he wants.

You prove my point. Thank you.

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Nope. The debate is about man's nature and mother nature/creator.

simple enough for you?

There is no "debate," Dainty.

The SUBJECT is natural rights and the desire of the left to deny them. The thread has largely been you and your fellow doofus getting the shit kicked out of you. Koios at least grasps the depth of his defeat and slunk back into the gutter...

You lack even that level of self-awareness.

No one here has proposed denying rights of Americans. You're delusional.

What is being discussed is natural law as a human construct and natural rights as something we as humans have created. Doing this does not negate rights people demand because of their human nature.

Stop living in the past. Wake up!!! It's the 21st century and many of the precepts and statements of 16th, 17th, 18th century philosophers were just plain wrong headed for our brave new world. Shit many of their ideas were toxic for their own times

 

[hazlnut]

Nature gives us the right to get wet in the rain, then dry off in the sun!!

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

Did you not pass 8th grade civics?

Natural rights are those that do not depend on the existence of government.

Government is not necessary for you to exercise a great number of your rights - as examples, that of free speech, self-defense, self-determination, the ownership of property, to freely practice your religion -- and are therefore all examples of natural rights.

Natural rights exist? Without government man is free to do whatever he can given his circumstances, not what he wants.

You prove my point. Thank you.

now all you have to do is go live in a world where government doesn't exist.

Oh wait!!! Even in the rain forests and aboriginal areas of the world some form of governing structure exists. Unless of course you're as mad as Jefferson imagining an agricultural utopian land of Anglo Saxon white men running around free as birds?

Natural rights exist? Without government man is free to do whatever he can given his circumstances, not what he wants.

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

The ownership of property? Contract law. Anyone can freely pray, but there were religions which demanded human sacrifice...so much for natural rights and freedoms...unless of course you're as mad as Jefferson and imagine an agricultural utopia where Anglo Saxons roamed Germany and Britain free as birds.

Bumper sticker slogans

 

[Koios]

Doesn't increase competition. Folks who can afford private schooling are buying it already and competition is already high.

Eliminating public education would merely make for a less educated society, and disproportionately benefit GOP candidates, which I oppose.

The same monies would be accrued by government. The difference in my new world is that the choice of education would be in play and we would end the money monopoly the government schools possess.

I would have education bucks to spend as I choose on the school of my choice. You do support choice in our personal lives, yes?

I am on a phone at present and thus cannot fully address the depth of your ignorance on the economics of what you proposed.

So check back in a couple hours.

Now then Dreamy. Yes, the same monies would be collected on property taxes, unless increased, even for folks like myself whose kids are grown and no longer in school. But an educated workforce benefits me, so no problemo, for me.

However, if lobbying by private education interests is successful and they bleed government money by selling enough retards on the foolishness that your child costs X and that should be your choice as where to spend it, things get fucked up. Here's why.

Your child's cost is merely an average. We'd still have schools, teachers and admin at the exact same level with or without your kid. But with your kid, the average cost goes down, albeit a fraction of a penny, state-wide. So no biggy, with or without. In fact, adding classrooms comes when student levels reach a point requiring it. Conversely, reduding classrooms and teachers for each grade level, and school, requires student totals to fall below a certain mark. So not all schools would lower cost, but would see diminished money coming in. And private concerns get all kinds of new govmint buckos, in case you're wondering why they spend on lobbying (a big fucking payday, hopefully, for them ... but not us ... since UP goes the cost of education, and soon after your and my property taxes, sales taxes, etc.)

Plus if private education was such a godsend, why are we in such a clusterfuck now with higher / trade school private "educators," suckling the student loan teet, and handing out "degrees" that are bullshit and worthless to potential employers? (answer: change in banko laws, thanks to GWB. Now poor folks can be hoodwinked into huge student loans for "educations" that ain't worth shit, and the poor schmucks are stuck with the debt and payments, without bankos as a way out.) All thanks to good old private "colleges."

 

[Procrustes Stretched]

conclusion: natural rights is an abstract notion in the minds of man

what a concept, eh?

I stand in awe without the idol worship or other nonsense concerning gods and creators. mankind is awesome to behold

 

[Uncensored2008]

No one here has proposed denying rights of Americans. You're delusional.

Good god (Obama) but you're stupid, Dainty. The reason your handlers have taught you this meme to deny that rights exist is the intent to strip them.

What is being discussed is natural law as a human construct and natural rights as something we as humans have created. Doing this does not negate rights people demand because of their human nature.

Are you really this stupid? The reason Soros and his minions have drilled into you to yap that rights only exist as granted by government is the agenda of denying these rights. Government can grant, government can revoke. Are you REALLY so dull that you fail to grasp this?

Stop living in the past. Wake up!!! It's the 21st century and many of the precepts and statements of 16th, 17th, 18th century philosophers were just plain wrong headed for our brave new world. Shit many of their ideas were toxic for their own times

The precepts and ideas that you live by came from the 19th and early 20th centuries. Marx and Pol Pot created far more misery than Jefferson or Payne.

 

[Uncensored2008]

Nature gives us the right to get wet in the rain, then dry off in the sun!!

Nature gives you the right to put down the paint chips and the vodka.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Natural rights exist? Without government man is free to do whatever he can given his circumstances, not what he wants.

You prove my point. Thank you.

now all you have to do is go live in a world where government doesn't exist.

Not at all - my point was proven, by you.

Without government man is free to do whatever he can given his circumstances, not what he wants

Again, thank you.