What should government do?

[Mortimer]

I always thought big government is a far right/fascist idea and liberal would be the oppossite even going into anarchy as extreme (absolute freedom) since when is anarchy and lawlessness right wing? I think right and left are difficult to understand to me. To me a right winger is a law and order type militarist and chauvinist etc. Someone in the police uniform or military working for the government etc. a fascist.

You are confusing things. Right wingers believe in small, limited federal government that simply enforces the Constitution, and that everyone should basically take care of themselves.

Lefties believe in a more active government that helps to take care of its people, and that everyone should be treated evenly and fairly... but have more freedoms to live their lives and express themselves.

ok, but what if i believe to use government institutions to promote racial seperatism, uphold white supremacy or like it was secure the right to "own slaves"? wouldnt that be right wing? government can be used in this or that way in left or right, to me its not per se left wing to be for government. actually freedom is a liberal/left idea to me. freedom and equality etc. democracy and human rights are also liberal ideas.

What? Why are you hung up on white supremacy and slavery? For that to happen, it would take the repeal of like three or more Amendments, and for that to happen would be about 99.9% impossible.

im just saying hypothethically big/small government is not per default right/left to me its for what you use it that makes it left or right, was fascist italy right wing or left wing? was imperial japan liberal/left wing?

 

[Lewdog]

I always thought big government is a far right/fascist idea and liberal would be the oppossite even going into anarchy as extreme (absolute freedom) since when is anarchy and lawlessness right wing? I think right and left are difficult to understand to me. To me a right winger is a law and order type militarist and chauvinist etc. Someone in the police uniform or military working for the government etc. a fascist.

You are confusing things. Right wingers believe in small, limited federal government that simply enforces the Constitution, and that everyone should basically take care of themselves.

Lefties believe in a more active government that helps to take care of its people, and that everyone should be treated evenly and fairly... but have more freedoms to live their lives and express themselves.

ok, but what if i believe to use government institutions to promote racial seperatism, uphold white supremacy or like it was secure the right to "own slaves"? wouldnt that be right wing? government can be used in this or that way in left or right, to me its not per se left wing to be for government. actually freedom is a liberal/left idea to me. freedom and equality etc. democracy and human rights are also liberal ideas.

What? Why are you hung up on white supremacy and slavery? For that to happen, it would take the repeal of like three or more Amendments, and for that to happen would be about 99.9% impossible.

im just saying hypothethically big/small government is not per default right/left to me its for what you use it that makes it left or right, was fascist italy right wing or left wing? was imperial japan liberal/left wing?

It's not the same in each country, and each of those countries has a different style of government. You are trying to compare a Dictatorship and and Emperor to a Representative Democracy.

 

[Mortimer]

I always thought big government is a far right/fascist idea and liberal would be the oppossite even going into anarchy as extreme (absolute freedom) since when is anarchy and lawlessness right wing? I think right and left are difficult to understand to me. To me a right winger is a law and order type militarist and chauvinist etc. Someone in the police uniform or military working for the government etc. a fascist.

You are confusing things. Right wingers believe in small, limited federal government that simply enforces the Constitution, and that everyone should basically take care of themselves.

Lefties believe in a more active government that helps to take care of its people, and that everyone should be treated evenly and fairly... but have more freedoms to live their lives and express themselves.

ok, but what if i believe to use government institutions to promote racial seperatism, uphold white supremacy or like it was secure the right to "own slaves"? wouldnt that be right wing? government can be used in this or that way in left or right, to me its not per se left wing to be for government. actually freedom is a liberal/left idea to me. freedom and equality etc. democracy and human rights are also liberal ideas.

What? Why are you hung up on white supremacy and slavery? For that to happen, it would take the repeal of like three or more Amendments, and for that to happen would be about 99.9% impossible.

im just saying hypothethically big/small government is not per default right/left to me its for what you use it that makes it left or right, was fascist italy right wing or left wing? was imperial japan liberal/left wing?

It's not the same in each country, and each of those countries has a different style of government. You are trying to compare a Dictatorship and and Emperor to a Representative Democracy.

true, probably it depends on eatch countries context, in american context "libertarians" are right wing, but to me its born out of humanitarian and liberal (masonic) ideas etc.

 

[owebo]

A few days ago Mike Pence went to see a play. The cast members interrupted the performance to lecture Pence on what he and Trump should do for them.

Here's a suggestion for what Pence should have replied.

“We sir, we are the diverse America, who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our children, our parents, or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights,”

Dear Sir,

Most of what you are asking here, is not within the authority of the U.S. government, and for good reason. Protecting all these things would have no practical limits, and politicians seeking to buy votes would expand them endlessly, and run up taxes to pay for them so high families and their businesses would be bankrupted and left unable to pay any taxes at all, even for the vital functions government does provide.

The purpose of government in this country, is to prevent people from interfering with you as you run your own life. It is not there for the purpose of running your life for you, giving you a job, giving you medical insurance, providing you food, or protecting you from hearing things you don't want to. Americans had to draw the line somewhere, so they wrote a Constitution that names what the Federal govt is authorized to do. That Constitution also contains a command saying that anything not explicitly stated, was forbidden to the Federal govt but is allowed for the states and lower governments. You'll have to contact them for help in those areas.

The Fed is indeed charged with defending you and protecting your unalienable rights. Plus rights the Constitution lists. But that's only a small fraction of what you're demanding. Protecting the planet is a little beyond us. Besides, we don't know of anyone from outside the planet who wants to attack it. Same goes for protecting your children and parents. That's up to you, but we'll certainly keep bad guys off your backs while you do it. For the other areas, please contact your individual state or local governments. As I have pointed out, there is very good reason for this separation of powers.

But you are quite right that our new administration headed by President-elect Donald Trump will not do those things that exceed the authority we have been given by the Constitution. We also won't restrict you from doing them yourselves, unless your acts violate the Constitution (no punishment for criminal acts without trial, no slavery etc.)

Our job is to stay out of your way unless somebody unjustly interferes with you. The rest is up to you.

Let us know how it goes.

Yours in freedom (mostly from excessive government),
Mike Pence, Vice-President-Elect

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Question: Would Pence be right in telling the protester this?

Why or why not?

Mike Pence is way too dumb to have thought of any of that in the moment

The douchbag from Hamilton had to read a script....so.....

 

[owebo]

You are confusing things. Right wingers believe in small, limited federal government that simply enforces the Constitution, and that everyone should basically take care of themselves.

Lefties believe in a more active government that helps to take care of its people, and that everyone should be treated evenly and fairly... but have more freedoms to live their lives and express themselves.

ok, but what if i believe to use government institutions to promote racial seperatism, uphold white supremacy or like it was secure the right to "own slaves"? wouldnt that be right wing? government can be used in this or that way in left or right, to me its not per se left wing to be for government. actually freedom is a liberal/left idea to me. freedom and equality etc. democracy and human rights are also liberal ideas.

What? Why are you hung up on white supremacy and slavery? For that to happen, it would take the repeal of like three or more Amendments, and for that to happen would be about 99.9% impossible.

im just saying hypothethically big/small government is not per default right/left to me its for what you use it that makes it left or right, was fascist italy right wing or left wing? was imperial japan liberal/left wing?

It's not the same in each country, and each of those countries has a different style of government. You are trying to compare a Dictatorship and and Emperor to a Representative Democracy.

true, probably it depends on eatch countries context, in american context "libertarians" are right wing, but to me its born out of humanitarian and liberal (masonic) ideas etc.

Because libertarians are....

 

[NYcarbineer]

A few days ago Mike Pence went to see a play. The cast members interrupted the performance to lecture Pence on what he and Trump should do for them.

Here's a suggestion for what Pence should have replied.

“We sir, we are the diverse America, who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our children, our parents, or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights,”

Dear Sir,

Most of what you are asking here, is not within the authority of the U.S. government, and for good reason. Protecting all these things would have no practical limits, and politicians seeking to buy votes would expand them endlessly, and run up taxes to pay for them so high families and their businesses would be bankrupted and left unable to pay any taxes at all, even for the vital functions government does provide.

The purpose of government in this country, is to prevent people from interfering with you as you run your own life. It is not there for the purpose of running your life for you, giving you a job, giving you medical insurance, providing you food, or protecting you from hearing things you don't want to. Americans had to draw the line somewhere, so they wrote a Constitution that names what the Federal govt is authorized to do. That Constitution also contains a command saying that anything not explicitly stated, was forbidden to the Federal govt but is allowed for the states and lower governments. You'll have to contact them for help in those areas.

The Fed is indeed charged with defending you and protecting your unalienable rights. Plus rights the Constitution lists. But that's only a small fraction of what you're demanding. Protecting the planet is a little beyond us. Besides, we don't know of anyone from outside the planet who wants to attack it. Same goes for protecting your children and parents. That's up to you, but we'll certainly keep bad guys off your backs while you do it. For the other areas, please contact your individual state or local governments. As I have pointed out, there is very good reason for this separation of powers.

But you are quite right that our new administration headed by President-elect Donald Trump will not do those things that exceed the authority we have been given by the Constitution. We also won't restrict you from doing them yourselves, unless your acts violate the Constitution (no punishment for criminal acts without trial, no slavery etc.)

Our job is to stay out of your way unless somebody unjustly interferes with you. The rest is up to you.

Let us know how it goes.

Yours in freedom (mostly from excessive government),
Mike Pence, Vice-President-Elect

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Question: Would Pence be right in telling the protester this?

Why or why not?

Government in America is supposed to keep people like Mike Pence out of power. He is NOT a man who wants the government to secure our inalienable rights.

The system is imperfect, best exemplified by the fact that Mike Pence IS in a position of power.

 

[NYcarbineer]

ok, but what if i believe to use government institutions to promote racial seperatism, uphold white supremacy or like it was secure the right to "own slaves"? wouldnt that be right wing? government can be used in this or that way in left or right, to me its not per se left wing to be for government. actually freedom is a liberal/left idea to me. freedom and equality etc. democracy and human rights are also liberal ideas.

What? Why are you hung up on white supremacy and slavery? For that to happen, it would take the repeal of like three or more Amendments, and for that to happen would be about 99.9% impossible.

im just saying hypothethically big/small government is not per default right/left to me its for what you use it that makes it left or right, was fascist italy right wing or left wing? was imperial japan liberal/left wing?

It's not the same in each country, and each of those countries has a different style of government. You are trying to compare a Dictatorship and and Emperor to a Representative Democracy.

true, probably it depends on eatch countries context, in american context "libertarians" are right wing, but to me its born out of humanitarian and liberal (masonic) ideas etc.

Because libertarians are....

View attachment 99708

Whoever concocted that chart should wear a hockey helmet for their own safety.

 

[owebo]

A few days ago Mike Pence went to see a play. The cast members interrupted the performance to lecture Pence on what he and Trump should do for them.

Here's a suggestion for what Pence should have replied.

“We sir, we are the diverse America, who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our children, our parents, or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights,”

Dear Sir,

Most of what you are asking here, is not within the authority of the U.S. government, and for good reason. Protecting all these things would have no practical limits, and politicians seeking to buy votes would expand them endlessly, and run up taxes to pay for them so high families and their businesses would be bankrupted and left unable to pay any taxes at all, even for the vital functions government does provide.

The purpose of government in this country, is to prevent people from interfering with you as you run your own life. It is not there for the purpose of running your life for you, giving you a job, giving you medical insurance, providing you food, or protecting you from hearing things you don't want to. Americans had to draw the line somewhere, so they wrote a Constitution that names what the Federal govt is authorized to do. That Constitution also contains a command saying that anything not explicitly stated, was forbidden to the Federal govt but is allowed for the states and lower governments. You'll have to contact them for help in those areas.

The Fed is indeed charged with defending you and protecting your unalienable rights. Plus rights the Constitution lists. But that's only a small fraction of what you're demanding. Protecting the planet is a little beyond us. Besides, we don't know of anyone from outside the planet who wants to attack it. Same goes for protecting your children and parents. That's up to you, but we'll certainly keep bad guys off your backs while you do it. For the other areas, please contact your individual state or local governments. As I have pointed out, there is very good reason for this separation of powers.

But you are quite right that our new administration headed by President-elect Donald Trump will not do those things that exceed the authority we have been given by the Constitution. We also won't restrict you from doing them yourselves, unless your acts violate the Constitution (no punishment for criminal acts without trial, no slavery etc.)

Our job is to stay out of your way unless somebody unjustly interferes with you. The rest is up to you.

Let us know how it goes.

Yours in freedom (mostly from excessive government),
Mike Pence, Vice-President-Elect

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Question: Would Pence be right in telling the protester this?

Why or why not?

Government in America is supposed to keep people like Mike Pence out of power. He is NOT a man who wants the government to secure our inalienable rights.

The system is imperfect, best exemplified by the fact that Mike Pence IS in a position of power.

No, your fascist ideals were repudiated earlier this month.....

 

[owebo]

What? Why are you hung up on white supremacy and slavery? For that to happen, it would take the repeal of like three or more Amendments, and for that to happen would be about 99.9% impossible.

im just saying hypothethically big/small government is not per default right/left to me its for what you use it that makes it left or right, was fascist italy right wing or left wing? was imperial japan liberal/left wing?

It's not the same in each country, and each of those countries has a different style of government. You are trying to compare a Dictatorship and and Emperor to a Representative Democracy.

true, probably it depends on eatch countries context, in american context "libertarians" are right wing, but to me its born out of humanitarian and liberal (masonic) ideas etc.

Because libertarians are....

View attachment 99708

Whoever concocted that chart should wear a hockey helmet for their own safety.

Which part is confusing you?

 

[NYcarbineer]

A few days ago Mike Pence went to see a play. The cast members interrupted the performance to lecture Pence on what he and Trump should do for them.

Here's a suggestion for what Pence should have replied.

“We sir, we are the diverse America, who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our children, our parents, or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights,”

Dear Sir,

Most of what you are asking here, is not within the authority of the U.S. government, and for good reason. Protecting all these things would have no practical limits, and politicians seeking to buy votes would expand them endlessly, and run up taxes to pay for them so high families and their businesses would be bankrupted and left unable to pay any taxes at all, even for the vital functions government does provide.

The purpose of government in this country, is to prevent people from interfering with you as you run your own life. It is not there for the purpose of running your life for you, giving you a job, giving you medical insurance, providing you food, or protecting you from hearing things you don't want to. Americans had to draw the line somewhere, so they wrote a Constitution that names what the Federal govt is authorized to do. That Constitution also contains a command saying that anything not explicitly stated, was forbidden to the Federal govt but is allowed for the states and lower governments. You'll have to contact them for help in those areas.

The Fed is indeed charged with defending you and protecting your unalienable rights. Plus rights the Constitution lists. But that's only a small fraction of what you're demanding. Protecting the planet is a little beyond us. Besides, we don't know of anyone from outside the planet who wants to attack it. Same goes for protecting your children and parents. That's up to you, but we'll certainly keep bad guys off your backs while you do it. For the other areas, please contact your individual state or local governments. As I have pointed out, there is very good reason for this separation of powers.

But you are quite right that our new administration headed by President-elect Donald Trump will not do those things that exceed the authority we have been given by the Constitution. We also won't restrict you from doing them yourselves, unless your acts violate the Constitution (no punishment for criminal acts without trial, no slavery etc.)

Our job is to stay out of your way unless somebody unjustly interferes with you. The rest is up to you.

Let us know how it goes.

Yours in freedom (mostly from excessive government),
Mike Pence, Vice-President-Elect

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Question: Would Pence be right in telling the protester this?

Why or why not?

Government in America is supposed to keep people like Mike Pence out of power. He is NOT a man who wants the government to secure our inalienable rights.

The system is imperfect, best exemplified by the fact that Mike Pence IS in a position of power.

No, your fascist ideals were repudiated earlier this month.....

Hillary Clinton is now ahead by OVER 2 million votes. The PEOPLE chose Clinton. An obsolete mechanism for the distortion of the will of the people selected Trump.

 

[owebo]

A few days ago Mike Pence went to see a play. The cast members interrupted the performance to lecture Pence on what he and Trump should do for them.

Here's a suggestion for what Pence should have replied.

“We sir, we are the diverse America, who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our children, our parents, or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights,”

Dear Sir,

Most of what you are asking here, is not within the authority of the U.S. government, and for good reason. Protecting all these things would have no practical limits, and politicians seeking to buy votes would expand them endlessly, and run up taxes to pay for them so high families and their businesses would be bankrupted and left unable to pay any taxes at all, even for the vital functions government does provide.

The purpose of government in this country, is to prevent people from interfering with you as you run your own life. It is not there for the purpose of running your life for you, giving you a job, giving you medical insurance, providing you food, or protecting you from hearing things you don't want to. Americans had to draw the line somewhere, so they wrote a Constitution that names what the Federal govt is authorized to do. That Constitution also contains a command saying that anything not explicitly stated, was forbidden to the Federal govt but is allowed for the states and lower governments. You'll have to contact them for help in those areas.

The Fed is indeed charged with defending you and protecting your unalienable rights. Plus rights the Constitution lists. But that's only a small fraction of what you're demanding. Protecting the planet is a little beyond us. Besides, we don't know of anyone from outside the planet who wants to attack it. Same goes for protecting your children and parents. That's up to you, but we'll certainly keep bad guys off your backs while you do it. For the other areas, please contact your individual state or local governments. As I have pointed out, there is very good reason for this separation of powers.

But you are quite right that our new administration headed by President-elect Donald Trump will not do those things that exceed the authority we have been given by the Constitution. We also won't restrict you from doing them yourselves, unless your acts violate the Constitution (no punishment for criminal acts without trial, no slavery etc.)

Our job is to stay out of your way unless somebody unjustly interferes with you. The rest is up to you.

Let us know how it goes.

Yours in freedom (mostly from excessive government),
Mike Pence, Vice-President-Elect

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Question: Would Pence be right in telling the protester this?

Why or why not?

Government in America is supposed to keep people like Mike Pence out of power. He is NOT a man who wants the government to secure our inalienable rights.

The system is imperfect, best exemplified by the fact that Mike Pence IS in a position of power.

No, your fascist ideals were repudiated earlier this month.....

Hillary Clinton is now ahead by OVER 2 million votes. The PEOPLE chose Clinton. An obsolete mechanism for the distortion of the will of the people selected Trump.

Trump won a mandate of 40 out of the 50 states.....true story.....

 

[Little-Acorn]

Right wingers believe in small, limited federal government that simply enforces the Constitution, and that everyone should basically take care of themselves.

As opposed to conservatives, who believe in small, limited federal government that simply enforces the Constitution, and that the people should decide which lower governments (state, local etc.) should take on other duties, and that beyond that everyone should basically take care of themselves, choosing whatever associations with others (friendliness, companies, charities etc.) they can agree to to help each other.

Lefties believe in a more active government that helps to take care of its people, and that everyone should be treated evenly and fairly... but have more freedoms to live their lives and express themselves.

Most lefties are unaware of the basic conflict in these requirements (a more active government while people "have more freedom"), since government's only capabilities are to punish people, threaten them, and take things away from them. A true and accurate understanding of the nature of government is necessary for anyone who wants to design one that can be borne long enough to do the things that private people and groups need but cannot do.

Many of them are also unaware that, without concrete, strictly enforced limits on what govt is allowed to do, a central government always grows and grows, taking on more and more power and restricting its subjects to an ever-increasing degree of restriction and taxation. They believe they can trust the people in government not to do such a thing. Despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

For these and other reasons, leftist government always grows, and conservative government always tries to turn itself into leftist government if it isn't strictly reined in. And the people seldom pay enough attention to what government is doing, to do that strict reining.

An excellent response, Lewdog. I disagree with many parts of it, but it is eminently worthy of discussion.

 

[Little-Acorn]

This is the fundamental difference between liberals and conservatives. Serious ones of each group, anyway.

Why not talk about it?

 

[Little-Acorn]

The PEOPLE chose Clinton.

It's always fun to watch liberal losers try to pretend the PEOPLE didn't choose to ratify an Electoral College to keep large cities and states from overwhelming small ones.

 

[Little-Acorn]

After so many leftists' attempts to change the subject and/or derail the thread, it's time to restate the actual subject.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

A few days ago Mike Pence went to see a play. The cast members interrupted the performance to lecture Pence on what he and Trump should do for them.

Here's a suggestion for what Pence should have replied.

“We sir, we are the diverse America, who are alarmed and anxious that your new administration will not protect us, our planet, our children, our parents, or defend us and uphold our inalienable rights,”

Dear Sir,

Most of what you are asking here, is not within the authority of the U.S. government, and for good reason. Protecting all these things would have no practical limits, and politicians seeking to buy votes would expand them endlessly, and run up taxes to pay for them so high families and their businesses would be bankrupted and left unable to pay any taxes at all, even for the vital functions government does provide.

The purpose of government in this country, is to prevent people from interfering with you as you run your own life. It is not there for the purpose of running your life for you, giving you a job, giving you medical insurance, providing you food, or protecting you from hearing things you don't want to. Americans had to draw the line somewhere, so they wrote a Constitution that names what the Federal govt is authorized to do. That Constitution also contains a command saying that anything not explicitly stated, was forbidden to the Federal govt but is allowed for the states and lower governments. You'll have to contact them for help in those areas.

The Fed is indeed charged with defending you and protecting your unalienable rights. Plus rights the Constitution lists. But that's only a small fraction of what you're demanding. Protecting the planet is a little beyond us. Besides, we don't know of anyone from outside the planet who wants to attack it. Same goes for protecting your children and parents. That's up to you, but we'll certainly keep bad guys off your backs while you do it. For the other areas, please contact your individual state or local governments. As I have pointed out, there is very good reason for this separation of powers.

But you are quite right that our new administration headed by President-elect Donald Trump will not do those things that exceed the authority we have been given by the Constitution. We also won't restrict you from doing them yourselves, unless your acts violate the Constitution (no punishment for criminal acts without trial, no slavery etc.)

Our job is to stay out of your way unless somebody unjustly interferes with you. The rest is up to you.

Let us know how it goes.

Yours in freedom (mostly from excessive government),
Mike Pence, Vice-President-Elect

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Question: Would Pence be right in telling the protester this?

Why or why not?