What we need to know about gun violence

[Bruce_T_Laney]

The gun in the pocket is not consider armed robbery but if the person pulls it out then yes it is consider armed robbery

What if the person pulls a knife instead of a gun? what about a baseball bat? is it still armed robbery? do they still get the extra 10 or 25 years you're proposing?

So it is you that is having a hard time with understanding the difference between shoplifting and armed robbery

You're the one that appears to be struggling to understand the difference, allow me to reiterate the equation for you since you seem to have missed it the first 3 times X crime = X result = X punishment, exception in your world it appears X crime = X result = X punishment or sometimes Y punishment or sometimes Z punishment.

BTW Why are you so angry?

You are retarded!

Armed robbery can be with any weapon like a bat, knife or gun. The conversation is about the usage of guns, and your smart ass wrote about the gun in the damn pocket and not me.

I stated that if in the pocket then it is consider shoplifting and if used in the robbery then it is armed robbery, and what part of that is too hard to understand for you?

You are equating shoplifting as being the same as armed robbery and not me. You are the one against strict sentencing for those using a firearm in a robbery, and not me.

So should someone get more time if they use a knife in their robbery versus just shoplifting?

Yes, because it is still armed robbery.

The same for a baseball bat?

Yes.

Should someone using a gun get more time?

Yes, and the type of weapon being used should add more time to the sentencing, and you have a problem with this?

Of course you do and I am betting you will blame the victim for being robbed and not the individual doing the crime or will blame society for the crime...

 

[Nosmo King]

what proposals would they proffer to stem the tide of gun violence?

Gun don't do the violence. People do the violence.

We are not going to stop violence in inner city ghettos where most of the crime takes place until those people start taking personal responsibility for their lives. They can start with getting rid of the mostly Democrat leadership that has failed the people.

It is not a gun problem it is a lack of morals and responsibility that produces the violence.

So ther is no gun violence among Conservatives or in Republican districts? This is simply more denial, more half assed conjecture, more smoke and mirrors thrown up by gun lovers to pull us down a primrose path where no solution can ever be found.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

what proposals would they proffer to stem the tide of gun violence?

Gun don't do the violence. People do the violence.

We are not going to stop violence in inner city ghettos where most of the crime takes place until those people start taking personal responsibility for their lives. They can start with getting rid of the mostly Democrat leadership that has failed the people.

It is not a gun problem it is a lack of morals and responsibility that produces the violence.

So ther is no gun violence among Conservatives or in Republican districts? This is simply more denial, more half assed conjecture, more smoke and mirrors thrown up by gun lovers to pull us down a primrose path where no solution can ever be found.

There is gun violence in every sector of this country.

The question is where is the highest level and what can be done to fix this problem?

1. Straw purchase for guns should carry a heavy punishment that results from 10 to 15 years for the buyer that turns around and illegally sells the gun to a known criminal.

2. Crimes committed with a firearm should carry a stiff sentence of no less than 25 years on it and if a second offense is committed then life in prison because after the first offense you are not legally able to buy a gun anymore.

3. Enforce the laws on the books that we already have and no plea deals at all..

 

[NightFox]

The gun in the pocket is not consider armed robbery but if the person pulls it out then yes it is consider armed robbery

What if the person pulls a knife instead of a gun? what about a baseball bat? is it still armed robbery? do they still get the extra 10 or 25 years you're proposing?

So it is you that is having a hard time with understanding the difference between shoplifting and armed robbery

You're the one that appears to be struggling to understand the difference, allow me to reiterate the equation for you since you seem to have missed it the first 3 times X crime = X result = X punishment, exception in your world it appears X crime = X result = X punishment or sometimes Y punishment or sometimes Z punishment.

BTW Why are you so angry?

You are retarded!

LOL, on the other hand I'm not the one that found it necessary to attempt to replace reason and evidence with name calling...

"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." -- Socrates

Yes, and the type of weapon being used should add more time to the sentencing, and you have a problem with this?

I don't have a problem with it, you seem to have a problem with it since you cannot seem to come up with a coherent explanation as to why it should be so.

Of course you do and I am betting you will blame the victim for being robbed and not the individual doing the crime or will blame society for the crime...

Yet another attempt at straw man construction.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

The gun in the pocket is not consider armed robbery but if the person pulls it out then yes it is consider armed robbery

What if the person pulls a knife instead of a gun? what about a baseball bat? is it still armed robbery? do they still get the extra 10 or 25 years you're proposing?

So it is you that is having a hard time with understanding the difference between shoplifting and armed robbery

You're the one that appears to be struggling to understand the difference, allow me to reiterate the equation for you since you seem to have missed it the first 3 times X crime = X result = X punishment, exception in your world it appears X crime = X result = X punishment or sometimes Y punishment or sometimes Z punishment.

BTW Why are you so angry?

You are retarded!

LOL, on the other hand I'm not the one that found it necessary to attempt to replace reason and evidence with name calling...

"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser." -- Socrates

Yes, and the type of weapon being used should add more time to the sentencing, and you have a problem with this?

I don't have a problem with it, you seem to have a problem with it since you cannot seem to come up with a coherent explanation as to why it should be so.

Of course you do and I am betting you will blame the victim for being robbed and not the individual doing the crime or will blame society for the crime...

Yet another attempt at straw man construction.

No, I have given you my answer and you refuse it because you believe shoplifting is the same as armed robbery.

Simple question and do you agree with the verdict and sentencing of the Affluenza kid Ethan Couch or do you believe he should have gotten life in prison for his part of killing four innocent people during his drunk driving?

Before you ask me what this has to do with anything just answer the question.

 

[Soggy in NOLA]

Since most gun deaths are suicide and gang related, what do you think we should do?

First I think we should understand where those gangs are obtaining guns.

black market
People breaking laws we already have

What means should law enforcement apply to stopping those purchases that will not offend the NRA and those who believe that any gun purchase is a constitutionally protected right?

How do you make more laws to make the breaking of laws we have unlawful?
I don't believe the NRA supports illegal purchases of firearms. Maybe they do.. Can you point me to that?

I'm an NRA member, we don't.

 

[Nosmo King]

So what have we learned in these posts?

Gun lovers have told us that gun violence does not happen, or at least it doesn't happen in statistically significant numbers. We have been told there is no such thing as a gun show loophole. We have been told that criminals are obtaining their weapons by way of artisanal gunsmiths operating in our ghettos. We have been further informed that, because there is no iron clad solution, no solution should be sought.

All this ham handed rationalization, all this specious logic, all this obfuscation and all this denial mounded up over and over by the gun lovers to what end? Are they that fearful their personal arsenals will be confiscated? Really?

 

[NightFox]

No, I have given you my answer and you refuse it because you believe shoplifting is the same as armed robbery.

You haven't given any rational answer but it appears you have become addicted to straw men during your attempts to duck the question regarding why X crime = X result = X punishment should be changed to X crime = X result = X punishment or sometimes Y punishment or sometimes Z punishment.

Simple question and do you agree with the verdict and sentencing of the Affluenza kid Ethan Couch or do you believe he should have gotten life in prison for his part of killing four innocent people during his drunk driving?

..and that has what to do with the topic at hand? are we moving from straw man arguments into the non sequitur now?

Before you ask me what this has to do with anything just answer the question.

Sorry but "born yesterday" lives down the street; go knock on his door if you're looking to try your hand at playing Johnny Cochran.

 

[LordBrownTrout]

so strawman purchases are legal? If not, how do we make strawman purchases more illegal?

There's that pesky gun show loophole. But tell the NRA and the gun lovers we need background checks at gun shows and all we hear is obstinate petulence.

Can you show us this loophole please?

You don't own a licensed gun shop. No brick and mortar store. But you own a pick up truck and a trailer. So you load them up with weapons, lease a table at a gun show and get to business. No background checks at the gun shows and weapons are bought COD. From there they hit the streets.

No, thats not whats happening. Libs are always romanticizing bubba pulling up to the gun show and making a little cash selling to the hood. You guys are a hoot.

Prove it.

Theres nothing to prove. These are just hallucinations in the liberal alice in wonderland mind.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

No, I have given you my answer and you refuse it because you believe shoplifting is the same as armed robbery.

You haven't given any rational answer but it appears you have become addicted to straw men during your attempts to duck the question regarding why X crime = X result = X punishment should be changed to X crime = X result = X punishment or sometimes Y punishment or sometimes Z punishment.

Simple question and do you agree with the verdict and sentencing of the Affluenza kid Ethan Couch or do you believe he should have gotten life in prison for his part of killing four innocent people during his drunk driving?

..and that has what to do with the topic at hand? are we moving from straw man arguments into the non sequitur now?

Before you ask me what this has to do with anything just answer the question.

Sorry but "born yesterday" lives down the street; go knock on his door if you're looking to try your hand at playing Johnny Cochran.

You're dishonest as can be!

The simple fact that I asked a question and you refused to answer point to the fact you are dishonest as can be.

I believe Ethan Couch should be in Prison for life, so I would have answered the question and not run away like a little coward that you are.

Your problem is you want to equate shoplifting to armed robbery which you have done and both are two different crimes.

A person that uses a firearm in a armed robbery crime should get a min. 25 years in prison. A stiff penalty like that will discourage someone from using a firearm.

If they use a firearm again in another armed robbery after doing 25 years in prison then they should get life because they used a firearm after being convicted for a violent crime and the fact their second amendment right had been taken away for the crime they have committed.

If done with a bat or knife would also suspend their second amendment right, and if done a second time with those two weapons should increase their jail time.

The sentencing part would make a criminal think twice before using a firearm, but you seem to be someone that is against this and willing to let criminals walk around society with the ability to do armed robbery on the general society with no stiff penalty.

So again I have answered your question and it is you that want to equate someone with a gun in their pocket that is shoplifting as being the same as armed robbery and the armed robber to you is the one being punished too much which I disagree with you on this one!

 

[TNHarley]

So what have we learned in these posts?

Gun lovers have told us that gun violence does not happen, or at least it doesn't happen in statistically significant numbers. We have been told there is no such thing as a gun show loophole. We have been told that criminals are obtaining their weapons by way of artisanal gunsmiths operating in our ghettos. We have been further informed that, because there is no iron clad so
Ute on, there should be no solution sought.

All this ham handed rationalization, all this specious logic, all this obfuscation and all this denial mounded up over and over by the gun lovers to what end?m are they that fearful their personal arsenals will be confiscated? Really?

lol
dude, your logic seems to be to make more laws so that existing laws will be more illegal.
We asked you to post said loophole with no availability.
Try again?

 

[NightFox]

No, I have given you my answer and you refuse it because you believe shoplifting is the same as armed robbery.

You haven't given any rational answer but it appears you have become addicted to straw men during your attempts to duck the question regarding why X crime = X result = X punishment should be changed to X crime = X result = X punishment or sometimes Y punishment or sometimes Z punishment.

Simple question and do you agree with the verdict and sentencing of the Affluenza kid Ethan Couch or do you believe he should have gotten life in prison for his part of killing four innocent people during his drunk driving?

..and that has what to do with the topic at hand? are we moving from straw man arguments into the non sequitur now?

Before you ask me what this has to do with anything just answer the question.

Sorry but "born yesterday" lives down the street; go knock on his door if you're looking to try your hand at playing Johnny Cochran.

You're dishonest as can be!

If you say so..... although as per your usual you make assertions without bothering to provide evidence.

The simple fact that I asked a question and you refused to answer point to the fact you are dishonest as can be.

I believe Ethan Couch should be in Prison for life, so I would have answered the question and not run away like a little coward that you are.

You mean like all the questions I've asked that you've ducked or tried to deflect? like for example the one regarding the relevance to the topic at hand.

Your problem is you want to equate shoplifting to armed robbery which you have done and both are two different crimes.

Exactly where did I equate armed robbery to shoplifting? ... you're the one that started this whole line of nonsense by asserting that crimes involving a gun should be carry mandatory sentences of 10 and 25 years and all you've done is attempt to twist one hyperbolic statement into a tool for you to deflect answering the basic question (sorry it hasn't worked out so well for you).

The sentencing part would make a criminal think twice before using a firearm,

Why does it matter if they use a gun or a knife if the crime is the same and the result is the same?

but you seem to be someone that is against this and willing to let criminals walk around society with the ability to do armed robbery on the general society with no stiff penalty.

.... *YAWN* again STRAW meets MAN

So again I have answered your question

Well at least you tried..
C- for effort
F for execution

and it is you that want to equate someone with a gun in their pocket that is shoplifting as being the same as armed robbery and the armed robber to you is the one being punished too much which I disagree with you on this one!

I should really start charging for these lessons in basic English but here goes another freebie:

Hyperbole: exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

No, I have given you my answer and you refuse it because you believe shoplifting is the same as armed robbery.

You haven't given any rational answer but it appears you have become addicted to straw men during your attempts to duck the question regarding why X crime = X result = X punishment should be changed to X crime = X result = X punishment or sometimes Y punishment or sometimes Z punishment.

Simple question and do you agree with the verdict and sentencing of the Affluenza kid Ethan Couch or do you believe he should have gotten life in prison for his part of killing four innocent people during his drunk driving?

..and that has what to do with the topic at hand? are we moving from straw man arguments into the non sequitur now?

Before you ask me what this has to do with anything just answer the question.

Sorry but "born yesterday" lives down the street; go knock on his door if you're looking to try your hand at playing Johnny Cochran.

You're dishonest as can be!

If you say so..... although as per your usual you make assertions without bothering to provide evidence.

The simple fact that I asked a question and you refused to answer point to the fact you are dishonest as can be.

I believe Ethan Couch should be in Prison for life, so I would have answered the question and not run away like a little coward that you are.

You mean like all the questions I've asked that you've ducked or tried to deflect? like for example the one regarding the relevance to the topic at hand.

Your problem is you want to equate shoplifting to armed robbery which you have done and both are two different crimes.

Exactly where did I equate armed robbery to shoplifting? ... you're the one that started this whole line of nonsense by asserting that crimes involving a gun should be carry mandatory sentences of 10 and 25 years and all you've done is attempt to twist one hyperbolic statement into a tool for you to deflect answering the basic question (sorry it hasn't worked out so well for you).

The sentencing part would make a criminal think twice before using a firearm,

Why does it matter if they use a gun or a knife if the crime is the same and the result is the same?

but you seem to be someone that is against this and willing to let criminals walk around society with the ability to do armed robbery on the general society with no stiff penalty.

.... *YAWN* again STRAW meets MAN

So again I have answered your question

Well at least you tried..
C- for effort
F for execution

and it is you that want to equate someone with a gun in their pocket that is shoplifting as being the same as armed robbery and the armed robber to you is the one being punished too much which I disagree with you on this one!

I should really start charging for these lessons in basic English but here goes another freebie:

Hyperbole: exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

You are a liar.

You can go fuck yourself and I have answered your fucking questions over and over and you refuse to accept that I agree with more harsh sentencing.

It matters because a gun can kill more people than a knife but you are too stupid to understand. How many mass murders have you seen by a knife carrying asshole versus a gun carrying asshole?

Oh but to you there is no difference as there is no difference to shoplifting and armed robbery.

How many people have you seen killed by someone using a baseball bat in a robbery or a knife?

Then how many people have been killed by a robber with a gun?

Oh wait there is no difference to you and the sentencing should be the same and should be as light as can be because we do not want to put those poor criminals away for robbing someone, and let blame society, right?

That is how you are coming off and my bet you will lie again as usual...

 

[Bruce_T_Laney]

Crime involving a firearm

First offence--min 10 years

Second offence-- min 25 years

no plea bargaining

First offense should be 25 years and the second offense should be life because the second offense mean you obtained a firearm after you have been convicted of a crime with a firearm...

Why? What's the difference between X criminal act and X criminal act while holding a gun? Isn't the result EXACTLY the same? Sounds like yet another authoritarian excuse for locking people up in prison for longer and longer periods of time.

"He was shoplifting with a gun in his pocket so instead of a slap on the wrist we're going to lock him up for 10 years"

If he was not using the gun in said crime and it was in his pocket then it is not a crime with a gun to me. If he was pointing the gun while robbing the store then it is a crime with a gun...

See the difference?

Nope, if he robs the store with or without a gun, the store still gets "robbed" EXACTLY the same result from same criminal act; so why should there be a drastrically different punishments for it? What are you hoping to accomplish with such a policy (I mean besides increasing the prison population)?

If he robs a store without a gun it is called shoplifting and if he robs it with a gun it is called armed robbery, and if robbed with a knife or baseball bat it is still armed robbery.

So you did try to equate shoplifting to armed robbery and got caught!

 

[NightFox]

Nope, if he robs the store with or without a gun, the store still gets "robbed" EXACTLY the same result from same criminal act; so why should there be a drastrically different punishments for it? What are you hoping to accomplish with such a policy (I mean besides increasing the prison population)?

If he robs a store without a gun it is called shoplifting and if he robs it with a gun it is called armed robbery, and if robbed with a knife or baseball bat it is still armed robbery.

LOL, congratulations you managed to invalidate your own assertion in one sentence.

Perhaps it was the "with or without a gun" statement that confused you? (hint: a knife or baseball falls under the heading of the "without a gun" portion).

"Reading is fundamental"

I await your next logic defying loop-d-loop with breathless anticipation.

 

[Auld Phart]

No, I have given you my answer and you refuse it because you believe shoplifting is the same as armed robbery.

You haven't given any rational answer but it appears you have become addicted to straw men during your attempts to duck the question regarding why X crime = X result = X punishment should be changed to X crime = X result = X punishment or sometimes Y punishment or sometimes Z punishment.

Simple question and do you agree with the verdict and sentencing of the Affluenza kid Ethan Couch or do you believe he should have gotten life in prison for his part of killing four innocent people during his drunk driving?

..and that has what to do with the topic at hand? are we moving from straw man arguments into the non sequitur now?

Before you ask me what this has to do with anything just answer the question.

Sorry but "born yesterday" lives down the street; go knock on his door if you're looking to try your hand at playing Johnny Cochran.

You're dishonest as can be!

If you say so..... although as per your usual you make assertions without bothering to provide evidence.

The simple fact that I asked a question and you refused to answer point to the fact you are dishonest as can be.

I believe Ethan Couch should be in Prison for life, so I would have answered the question and not run away like a little coward that you are.

You mean like all the questions I've asked that you've ducked or tried to deflect? like for example the one regarding the relevance to the topic at hand.

Your problem is you want to equate shoplifting to armed robbery which you have done and both are two different crimes.

Exactly where did I equate armed robbery to shoplifting? ... you're the one that started this whole line of nonsense by asserting that crimes involving a gun should be carry mandatory sentences of 10 and 25 years and all you've done is attempt to twist one hyperbolic statement into a tool for you to deflect answering the basic question (sorry it hasn't worked out so well for you).

The sentencing part would make a criminal think twice before using a firearm,

Why does it matter if they use a gun or a knife if the crime is the same and the result is the same?

but you seem to be someone that is against this and willing to let criminals walk around society with the ability to do armed robbery on the general society with no stiff penalty.

.... *YAWN* again STRAW meets MAN

So again I have answered your question

Well at least you tried..
C- for effort
F for execution

and it is you that want to equate someone with a gun in their pocket that is shoplifting as being the same as armed robbery and the armed robber to you is the one being punished too much which I disagree with you on this one!

I should really start charging for these lessons in basic English but here goes another freebie:

Hyperbole: exaggerated statements or claims not meant to be taken literally.

You are a liar.

You can go fuck yourself and I have answered your fucking questions over and over and you refuse to accept that I agree with more harsh sentencing.

It matters because a gun can kill more people than a knife but you are too stupid to understand. How many mass murders have you seen by a knife carrying asshole versus a gun carrying asshole?

Oh but to you there is no difference as there is no difference to shoplifting and armed robbery.

How many people have you seen killed by someone using a baseball bat in a robbery or a knife?

Then how many people have been killed by a robber with a gun?

Oh wait there is no difference to you and the sentencing should be the same and should be as light as can be because we do not want to put those poor criminals away for robbing someone, and let blame society, right?

That is how you are coming off and my bet you will lie again as usual...

Bruce, you realize what you're dealing with, don't you?

 

[The Rabbi]

How do criminals get their weapons? When someone dies from gun fire, other than suicide or accidental discharge, is the shooter always a criminal before the gun fires? Often I read posts from gun lovers who blame gun deaths on criminals. Well, we might safely assume the the shooter is a criminal after they shoot someone, but are they always criminals before hand?

If we accept the premise forwarded by the gun lovers that no laws can prevent or curb our current blight of gun violence, what proposals would they proffer to stem the tide of gun violence? Can the proposition of flooding our streets with guns actually make us safer? If this were true, given the facts that we have a population of 300,000,000 and a public gun inventory of 300,000,000 shouldn't we be as safe as we can possibly be?

So, to recap, how do criminals get guns, is every shooter of humans a criminal, and with the 1:1 ratio of guns to Americans, why aren't we safe from gun violence?

Vast majority of guns are obtained by stealing them from lawful gun owners. Others by straw purchases. Very small number through the "gun show loophole" which doesnt exist. Why should criminals buy guns when they can steal them instead?

Do you have proof, or is this merely conjecture?

What would you consider proof sufficient to persuade you that is the case?

 

[The Rabbi]

So what have we learned in these posts?

Gun lovers have told us that gun violence does not happen, or at least it doesn't happen in statistically significant numbers. We have been told there is no such thing as a gun show loophole. We have been told that criminals are obtaining their weapons by way of artisanal gunsmiths operating in our ghettos. We have been further informed that, because there is no iron clad solution, no solution should be sought.

All this ham handed rationalization, all this specious logic, all this obfuscation and all this denial mounded up over and over by the gun lovers to what end? Are they that fearful their personal arsenals will be confiscated? Really?

If thats actually what you go out of the posts here then you are dumber than a week old turnip. I would ask for citations where anybody wrote most of that crap but you dont have th chops to engage in this debate.

 

[Flash]

what proposals would they proffer to stem the tide of gun violence?

Gun don't do the violence. People do the violence.

We are not going to stop violence in inner city ghettos where most of the crime takes place until those people start taking personal responsibility for their lives. They can start with getting rid of the mostly Democrat leadership that has failed the people.

It is not a gun problem it is a lack of morals and responsibility that produces the violence.

So ther is no gun violence among Conservatives or in Republican districts? This is simply more denial, more half assed conjecture, more smoke and mirrors thrown up by gun lovers to pull us down a primrose path where no solution can ever be found.

No smoke and mirrors, just denial from you Moon Bats.

Most (but not all) gun violence in this country takes place in the big city shitholes, mostly run by Democrats. One shy of 500 deaths and a few shy of 3,000 shootings in 2015 in Chicago alone.

 

[Missourian]

Are you positive that gangs get their guns via a black market? Could the be getting them by way of strawman purchases at gun shows? How hard would it be to have a dupe buy Glocks at a gun show and drive them into south Chicago?

Why throw in gun shows? They can make a straw purchase anywhere.

Congratulations, you've just made the argument why universal background checks are useless.