What's wrong with smart guns?

[HappyJoy]

Well, if you look at states that have a lot of guns and states that don't you will find that gun suicides are higher while non-gun suicides are relatively even. But, you won't even comment on that.

My guess is that often times suicide is not well thought, more of an impulse and when someone does not attain immediate success (like shooting yourself often will) they give up, maybe get help, get sober, whatever the reasons obviously according to the numbers suicide is less prevalent with less guns.

Correlation and causation are not the same thing

You cannot tell me that people who can't get a gun won't kill themselves anyway

And as I said it's none of my business if a person wants to commit suicide it's their life their choice and I will not restrict my behavior because of someone else's choice and I certainly will not allow anyone else to

Nobody is saying people kill themselves because of guns. People only more effectively kill themselves because of guns, done with your strawman.

So what?

If someone wants to kill themselves it's none of your business
The guns and suicide argument is a red herring

Suicide is not a crime it's a ch0ice and who are you to tell anyone they have to live if they don't want to?

Sure, suicide is awesome according to you. Too bad many people who off themselves do it on impulse and put very little thought into it. I'd prefer they get help in most cases, you on the other hand don't give a shit about them because you're too busy twisting up in a ball defending a gun fetish ideology.

It's OK to believe in 2nd amendment rights and realize that guns kill people suffering from depression.

My stance on suicide has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with respecting other peoples' choices

Then you're indifferent to the discussion

 

[westwall]

Brain357 Here you go buddy, this is an example of what you need to do to show us all you own a gun...

 

[M14 Shooter]

Interesting.
Guns are used in 5.6% of all suicide attempts.

Yep, but they make up for than half of all suicides.

Probably because the people who use them are serious about success.
Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.

Good luck proving that.

Don't like the premise, eh?

What premise?

That:
-Guns likely account for about half of successful suicides because the people who use them are serious about success.
-Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.

What part of this do you take issue with?

 

[Brain357]

So you will just keep lying. You really do a great job of representing the forum.

What have I ever lied about? Be specific.

Better than you silly boy. Better than you. And you lie about owning guns. if you do indeed own some take a picture of them with todays newspaper and a personal message to westwall and post it here.

You are the one lying. You prove I don't own many. Are you so dumb to think only tea baggers own guns? You realize even the nra has been for gun control right?

Seriously you can't come up with anything I have lied about? Way to go.

I just said you are lying about owning guns silly boy. Prove me wrong. It's really simple.

No you are lying. You will admit you talk out of your ass and give up being a mod after I prove it? Not going through the work for nothing. Put up or shut up.

Nope. Stop acting like a fucking child and put up or shut up.

So you dont even believe yourself. Thought you had no balls. Thanks for proving it. Now stop talking out of your ass, looks real bad for a moderator.

 

[Brain357]

Brain357 Here you go buddy, this is an example of what you need to do to show us all you own a gun...

Just agree to admit you are lying and give up being a moderator. Put up or shut up.

 

[JimBowie1958]

So you are saying you have never forgotten to load your gun?

No because my gun , once loaded, STAYS loaded.

It doesnt deplete its own charge like a cell phone does, dude.

Do you genuinely not see the difference or are you just playing at being stupid?

 

[M14 Shooter]

It's OK to believe in 2nd amendment rights and realize that guns kill people suffering from depression.

No.
People kill people suffering from depression.
Most people that die from gunshot choose to do so.

 

[JimBowie1958]

So you dont even believe yourself. Thought you had no balls. Thanks for proving it. Now stop talking out of your ass, looks real bad for a moderator.

So you think that when a person states that they have X, it is to be regarded as true unless some one else can prove that they dont have X?

I take back what I said about you earlier; you dont appear to be stupid, you ARE STUPID.

 

[HappyJoy]

Yep, but they make up for than half of all suicides.

Probably because the people who use them are serious about success.
Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.

Good luck proving that.

Don't like the premise, eh?

What premise?

That:
-Guns likely account for about half of successful suicides because the people who use them are serious about success.
-Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.

What part of this do you take issue with?

I think people use what they have around them. Because what you are saying is that in states with more guns people are inclined to be more serious about their suicides since they succeed more often. And if that's true then what you are saying is that on average gun owners are more unstable and more depressed as a whole than other people.

Maybe you should think through your unproven theories before posting them.

 

[M14 Shooter]

Probably because the people who use them are serious about success.
Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.

Good luck proving that.

Don't like the premise, eh?

What premise?

That:
-Guns likely account for about half of successful suicides because the people who use them are serious about success.
-Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.
What part of this do you take issue with?

I think people use what they have around them.

Given the number of gun owners and the number of gun in the US, the 5.9% use rate says otherwise.

 

[westwall]

Brain357 Here you go buddy, this is an example of what you need to do to show us all you own a gun...

Just agree to admit you are lying and give up being a moderator. Put up or shut up.

Here are examples of your lies. And these are JUST in this thread! Now you can leave....

"No you need a crime. The number of guns doesn't matter when there aren't enough crimes being attempted."

This is a lie of omission. Crimes occur every day that are not reported and you ignore those, that is a lie...

"Im sorry there are only about 1.2 million violent crimes each year. Making your paranoia and defense numbers look even more ridiculous."

And this is simply insane... There are well over 200 people dead in Europe from only TWO attacks. Far from "fine"..

"And again Europe is not armed and they are fine. That kills your crazy theory."

Here you lie by ignoring the Bosnian and Serb experiences of the last 20 years...or did you simply not know about them? Your intellectual capacity is pretty low so it is possible you simply are ignorant of this episode.

"How about you stick with stats for like the last two decades? Or do you prefer to be ridiculous?"

"None this year, last year, the last 40 years...

If guns are needed to stop that sort of thing why is it Europe doesn't have a problem? Most of Europe is disarmed."

 

[HappyJoy]

Good luck proving that.

Don't like the premise, eh?

What premise?

That:
-Guns likely account for about half of successful suicides because the people who use them are serious about success.
-Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.
What part of this do you take issue with?

I think people use what they have around them.

Given the number of gun owners and the number of gun in the US, the 5.9% use rate says otherwise.

That's all fine and good, doesn't change the fact that Alaska and Wyoming have high suicide rates than New York or California. Are you saying liberals are just happier?

 

[westwall]

Don't like the premise, eh?

What premise?

That:
-Guns likely account for about half of successful suicides because the people who use them are serious about success.
-Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.
What part of this do you take issue with?

I think people use what they have around them.

Given the number of gun owners and the number of gun in the US, the 5.9% use rate says otherwise.

That's all fine and good, doesn't change the fact that Alaska and Wyoming have high suicide rates than New York or California. Are you saying liberals are just happier?

Have you looked at the rates of suicide by region? In California the rural areas are much higher than the urban regions. Also whites commit suicides far more frequently than other races. American Indians have the lowest rate of suicide. Interesting don't you think?

http://www.rand.org/content/dam/rand/pubs/research_briefs/RB9700/RB9737/RAND_RB9737.pdf

 

[M14 Shooter]

Don't like the premise, eh?

What premise?

That:
-Guns likely account for about half of successful suicides because the people who use them are serious about success.
-Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.
What part of this do you take issue with?

I think people use what they have around them.

Given the number of gun owners and the number of gun in the US, the 5.9% use rate says otherwise.

That's all fine and good...

So, what part of my premise do you take issue with, and why?
-Guns likely account for about half of successful suicides because the people who use them are serious about success.
-Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.

 

[HappyJoy]

What premise?

That:
-Guns likely account for about half of successful suicides because the people who use them are serious about success.
-Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.
What part of this do you take issue with?

I think people use what they have around them.

Given the number of gun owners and the number of gun in the US, the 5.9% use rate says otherwise.

That's all fine and good...

So, what part of my premise do you take issue with, and why?
-Guns likely account for about half of successful suicides because the people who use them are serious about success.
-Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.

The part where you think states with more guns are more serious about their suicides. What's going on in Wyoming?

Because your theory that people will find another way. I'm sure that happens sometimes. But, how come it doesn't? If 84+% of suicide attempts are not by gun and over 90% of them fail then how come all those people aren't turning to guns?

 

[M14 Shooter]

That:
-Guns likely account for about half of successful suicides because the people who use them are serious about success.
-Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.
What part of this do you take issue with?

I think people use what they have around them.

Given the number of gun owners and the number of gun in the US, the 5.9% use rate says otherwise.

That's all fine and good...

So, what part of my premise do you take issue with, and why?
-Guns likely account for about half of successful suicides because the people who use them are serious about success.
-Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.

The part where you think states with more guns are more serious about their suicides. What's going on in Wyoming?

When did I say that? Oh wait -- I didn't.
Why are you being dishonest?

Let's try this again:
-Guns likely account for about half of successful suicides because the people who use them are serious about success.
-Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.
What part of my premise do you take issue with, and why?

 

[HappyJoy]

I think people use what they have around them.

Given the number of gun owners and the number of gun in the US, the 5.9% use rate says otherwise.

That's all fine and good...

So, what part of my premise do you take issue with, and why?
-Guns likely account for about half of successful suicides because the people who use them are serious about success.
-Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.

The part where you think states with more guns are more serious about their suicides. What's going on in Wyoming?

When did I say that? Oh wait -- I didn't.
Why are you being dishonest?

Let's try this again:
-Guns likely account for about half of successful suicides because the people who use them are serious about success.
-Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.
What part of my premise do you take issue with, and why?

But they don't find another way. If they did then most suicides would be successful. They don't on average take pills, get their stomach pumped and then go to the gun, the numbers do not demonstrate that.

So, the only conclusion that I see you coming to given that more successful suicides happen in gun rich environments is that gun owners are suicidal. I disagree with you.

 

[2aguy]

Don't like the premise, eh?

What premise?

That:
-Guns likely account for about half of successful suicides because the people who use them are serious about success.
-Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.
What part of this do you take issue with?

I think people use what they have around them.

Given the number of gun owners and the number of gun in the US, the 5.9% use rate says otherwise.

That's all fine and good, doesn't change the fact that Alaska and Wyoming have high suicide rates than New York or California. Are you saying liberals are just happier?

Alaska and Wyoming have horrible winters, low populations, high populations of single men….that increases depression….if they didn't have guns they would use rope……..

Suicide is an intentional act and we have shown that countries without guns do it far more than we do…….

 

[M14 Shooter]

Given the number of gun owners and the number of gun in the US, the 5.9% use rate says otherwise.

That's all fine and good...

So, what part of my premise do you take issue with, and why?
-Guns likely account for about half of successful suicides because the people who use them are serious about success.
-Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.

The part where you think states with more guns are more serious about their suicides. What's going on in Wyoming?

When did I say that? Oh wait -- I didn't.
Why are you being dishonest?

Let's try this again:
-Guns likely account for about half of successful suicides because the people who use them are serious about success.
-Absent guns, people who are serious about success will find another way.
What part of my premise do you take issue with, and why?

But they don't find another way.

They have access to a gun - why would they?

If they did then most suicides would be successful.

This only supports my "serious about suicide" premise.
Why use a gun unless you are serious about killing yourself and there are any number of other means available?

So, the only conclusion that I see you coming to given that more successful suicides happen in gun rich environments is that gun owners are suicidal.

Non sequitur.

 

[Brain357]

Brain357 Here you go buddy, this is an example of what you need to do to show us all you own a gun...

Just agree to admit you are lying and give up being a moderator. Put up or shut up.

Here are examples of your lies. And these are JUST in this thread! Now you can leave....

"No you need a crime. The number of guns doesn't matter when there aren't enough crimes being attempted."

This is a lie of omission. Crimes occur every day that are not reported and you ignore those, that is a lie...

"Im sorry there are only about 1.2 million violent crimes each year. Making your paranoia and defense numbers look even more ridiculous."

And this is simply insane... There are well over 200 people dead in Europe from only TWO attacks. Far from "fine"..

"And again Europe is not armed and they are fine. That kills your crazy theory."

Here you lie by ignoring the Bosnian and Serb experiences of the last 20 years...or did you simply not know about them? Your intellectual capacity is pretty low so it is possible you simply are ignorant of this episode.

"How about you stick with stats for like the last two decades? Or do you prefer to be ridiculous?"

"None this year, last year, the last 40 years...

If guns are needed to stop that sort of thing why is it Europe doesn't have a problem? Most of Europe is disarmed."

You made the right decision not to put up. You would have lost.

You do need a crime in order to have a defense. If we have 100,000 crimes attempted that is the most that can possibly be defended. There being 300 million guns has nothing to do with it.

Most crimes will be reported by lawful citizens. It is the people who are themselves criminals who don't report crimes.

His theory seems to be that we need guns to defend against the government. Those weren't government attacks, they were by terrorists. Armed people really won't be able to defend against terrorists. Remember 9/11? How many in those buildings were armed? Oh right it doesn't matter.

The Bosnian/serb thing was still quite a long time ago. Even then there were not smart phones, internet, 24/7 news. You seem to have completely missed my point.

So you have proven no lies.