What's wrong with smart guns?

[2aguy]

Lies damn lies and....

Tell me how many of those people who kill themselves with guns in the US wouldn't still commit suicide if there were no guns available?

And besides suicide is not a crime and people have the right to decide whether they live or die so your suicide numbers don't count as far as I'm concerned

Well, if you look at states that have a lot of guns and states that don't you will find that gun suicides are higher while non-gun suicides are relatively even. But, you won't even comment on that.

My guess is that often times suicide is not well thought, more of an impulse and when someone does not attain immediate success (like shooting yourself often will) they give up, maybe get help, get sober, whatever the reasons obviously according to the numbers suicide is less prevalent with less guns.

Correlation and causation are not the same thing

You cannot tell me that people who can't get a gun won't kill themselves anyway

And as I said it's none of my business if a person wants to commit suicide it's their life their choice and I will not restrict my behavior because of someone else's choice and I certainly will not allow anyone else to

Nobody is saying people kill themselves because of guns. People only more effectively kill themselves because of guns, done with your strawman.

So what?

If someone wants to kill themselves it's none of your business
The guns and suicide argument is a red herring

Suicide is not a crime it's a ch0ice and who are you to tell anyone they have to live if they don't want to?

Sure, suicide is awesome according to you. Too bad many people who off themselves do it on impulse and put very little thought into it. I'd prefer they get help in most cases, you on the other hand don't give a shit about them because you're too busy twisting up in a ball defending a gun fetish ideology.

It's OK to believe in 2nd amendment rights and realize that guns kill people suffering from depression.

Trains, tall building and rope also kill people suffering from depression…just ask the Japanese, the South Koreans, Chinese, Poles, and hungarians….

 

[2aguy]

Here is a list of how succesful different types of suicdes are


Lethality of Suicide Method
Fatal Nonfatal Total % Fatal
Firearm fatal: 16,869 non fatal: 2,980 total attempts: 19,849 % successful: 85%
Suffocation fatal: 6,198 non fatal: 2,761 total attempts:8,959 % successful: 69%
Poisoning/overdose fatal: 5,191 non fatal: 215,814 total attempts: 221,005 % successful: 2%
Fall fatal: 651 non fatal: 1434 total attempts: 2,085 % successful: 31%
Cut/pierce fatal: 458 non-fatal: 62,817 total attempts: 63,275 % successful: 1%
Other fatal: 1,109 non fatal: 35,089 total attempts: 36,198 % successful: 3%
Unspecified fatal: 146 non fatal: 2097 total attempts: 2,243% successful: 7%

Total fatal: 30,622 non-fatal: 322,991 total attempts: 353,613 % successful:9%

Data is from 2001. And shows that successful gun suicides make up over 55% of all suicides yet only makes up less than 6% of all suicide attempts. Because guns make the attempt permanent and other forms of suicide attempts usually fail.

The above data also demonstrates that people don't usually end up choosing guns only after exhausting other methods as gun attempts do not come close to equaling other failed types of failed attempts.

Bullet Trains, tall buildings, bridges, home chemicals, and rope….100% effective in Japan, China and South Korea…they use them to kill themselves at 2x our rate.

Right, I would guess those types of suicide are covered in the "other" category and are less lethal than guns. Try again.

Right, I would guess those types of suicide are covered in the "other" category and are less lethal than guns. Try again

Not in Japan, China or South Korea, Poland, Hungary or Scandinavia……..they are the most lethal method they use…since they don't use guns….

The USA has a higher suicide rate than most other countries, but you prefer to cherry pick a couple. Then again, we have no idea what the suicide rate would be in the countries you listed if guns were more prevalent. You're ridiculous. .

List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

We have a suicide rate higher than some but not even close to the highest…..that would be the asian countries and several countries in Europe…all with absolute or extreme gun control. The people there commit suicide without guns…...

 

[Brain357]

Standing naked in a thunderstorm would be very uncomfortable.

I'm not telling you that you need one. I'm telling you that you would be just as safe with one, probably safer. I'm telling you that you don't need to be so scared.

Not scared, prepared

But I don't expect you to understand the difference

I wouldn't understand, I'm not paranoid and scared.

Sure you are. You are paranoid a terrified of anyone who owns a gun. That's why you want to disarm all of them.

I own ten myself...

Bullshit. You don't own a single one. Gun owners can tell the difference between gun owners and those who claim to own them. And the only gun you would ever own is the one in the video game you play..

Always talking out of your ass westwall. Shouldn't that be illegal for a moderator?

 

[2aguy]

I don't care of you're fine with it

I'm not and I'm not going to bet my life if it comes to it on a piece of technology that can fail

I have a fingerprint scanner on my computer and routinely have to swipe my finger 2 or 3 times for it to work

There's no way that's acceptable on a firearm

Scanner always works on my phone. You should try to not be so scared and paranoid.

You never had to swipe your finger more than once?

I highly doubt that

Probably have, but it is used a lot.

So how may times should I have to swipe my finger over a reader before I can use a gun if my or my wife's life is in danger

3, 4, more?

What if it's cold and I'm wearing gloves ?

Get the kind where you enter a code then. Stop being so scared. Again the stats show there is about a 0% chance you will ever need to shoot at someone. No reason to spend your life paranoid and scared. I carry no weapon and am not scared.

Again the stats show there is about a 0% chance you will ever need to shoot at someone.

Except for all those people raped, robbed and murdered by criminals…was there need to shoot someone a 0% proposition?

 

[2aguy]

There you go! All you "good guys with guns" buy a realistic toy gun and keep it on you at all times. You'll feel safer, look tough, and who will know the difference? I'm being snarky here. I would never want children to think all guns are toys.

You aren't being snarky, you're being a stupid asshole, there's a difference. I honestly don't give a fuck if owning guns makes liberals pee themselves. Not my problem.

I think the only ones peeing themselves are the gun nuts every time they hear someone say gun control. Stop being so scared its a safe country.

Germany was a safe country in the 1920s too…..as was the rest of Europe…..until the 30s came along…that changed things very quickly….

 

[Skull Pilot]

There's over a million examples and it's on you to prove that most of them were involved in criminal activities

It's all well and good to bet your life on statistics until you're one of those very statistics that is

The FBI has done it for me. You better talk to the guy who started we have gang problem not a gun problem.

Over 300 million people. And only about 230 criminals shot and killed in defense. You are very safe.

Why does using a gun in for self defense have to involve killing someone or even shooting them for that matter?



How many times has a crime been prevented by a person with a firearm who never discharged it?

You are being deliberately obtuse

or maybe not

So then you would be just as safe with a smart gun. That is the point.

Unless it didn't work because the electronics failed

Why take that chance?

You just argued that nobody has to shoot. So you really aren't taking a chance.

You really are thick

Tell me what do you do the one chance in a million you get attacked?

 

[westwall]

Not scared, prepared

But I don't expect you to understand the difference

I wouldn't understand, I'm not paranoid and scared.

Sure you are. You are paranoid a terrified of anyone who owns a gun. That's why you want to disarm all of them.

I own ten myself...

Bullshit. You don't own a single one. Gun owners can tell the difference between gun owners and those who claim to own them. And the only gun you would ever own is the one in the video game you play..

Always talking out of your ass westwall. Shouldn't that be illegal for a moderator?

Merely stating the obvious. No one who espouses the dishonest propaganda that you do, would ever be caught owning a gun. They're scary!

 

[Skull Pilot]

Lies damn lies and....

Tell me how many of those people who kill themselves with guns in the US wouldn't still commit suicide if there were no guns available?

And besides suicide is not a crime and people have the right to decide whether they live or die so your suicide numbers don't count as far as I'm concerned

Well, if you look at states that have a lot of guns and states that don't you will find that gun suicides are higher while non-gun suicides are relatively even. But, you won't even comment on that.

My guess is that often times suicide is not well thought, more of an impulse and when someone does not attain immediate success (like shooting yourself often will) they give up, maybe get help, get sober, whatever the reasons obviously according to the numbers suicide is less prevalent with less guns.

Correlation and causation are not the same thing

You cannot tell me that people who can't get a gun won't kill themselves anyway

And as I said it's none of my business if a person wants to commit suicide it's their life their choice and I will not restrict my behavior because of someone else's choice and I certainly will not allow anyone else to

Nobody is saying people kill themselves because of guns. People only more effectively kill themselves because of guns, done with your strawman.

So what?

If someone wants to kill themselves it's none of your business
The guns and suicide argument is a red herring

Suicide is not a crime it's a ch0ice and who are you to tell anyone they have to live if they don't want to?

Sure, suicide is awesome according to you. Too bad many people who off themselves do it on impulse and put very little thought into it. I'd prefer they get help in most cases, you on the other hand don't give a shit about them because you're too busy twisting up in a ball defending a gun fetish ideology.

It's OK to believe in 2nd amendment rights and realize that guns kill people suffering from depression.

My stance on suicide has nothing to do with guns and everything to do with respecting other peoples' choices

 

[Brain357]

Scanner always works on my phone. You should try to not be so scared and paranoid.

You never had to swipe your finger more than once?

I highly doubt that

Probably have, but it is used a lot.

So how may times should I have to swipe my finger over a reader before I can use a gun if my or my wife's life is in danger

3, 4, more?

What if it's cold and I'm wearing gloves ?

Get the kind where you enter a code then. Stop being so scared. Again the stats show there is about a 0% chance you will ever need to shoot at someone. No reason to spend your life paranoid and scared. I carry no weapon and am not scared.

Again the stats show there is about a 0% chance you will ever need to shoot at someone.

Except for all those people raped, robbed and murdered by criminals…was there need to shoot someone a 0% proposition?

Again you want to claim there is lots of shooting going on? Shootings are reported you know. You better think about your answer.

 

[2aguy]

Here is a list of how succesful different types of suicdes are


Lethality of Suicide Method
Fatal Nonfatal Total % Fatal
Firearm fatal: 16,869 non fatal: 2,980 total attempts: 19,849 % successful: 85%
Suffocation fatal: 6,198 non fatal: 2,761 total attempts:8,959 % successful: 69%
Poisoning/overdose fatal: 5,191 non fatal: 215,814 total attempts: 221,005 % successful: 2%
Fall fatal: 651 non fatal: 1434 total attempts: 2,085 % successful: 31%
Cut/pierce fatal: 458 non-fatal: 62,817 total attempts: 63,275 % successful: 1%
Other fatal: 1,109 non fatal: 35,089 total attempts: 36,198 % successful: 3%
Unspecified fatal: 146 non fatal: 2097 total attempts: 2,243% successful: 7%

Total fatal: 30,622 non-fatal: 322,991 total attempts: 353,613 % successful:9%

Data is from 2001. And shows that successful gun suicides make up over 55% of all suicides yet only makes up less than 6% of all suicide attempts. Because guns make the attempt permanent and other forms of suicide attempts usually fail.

The above data also demonstrates that people don't usually end up choosing guns only after exhausting other methods as gun attempts do not come close to equaling other failed types of failed attempts.

Bullet Trains, tall buildings, bridges, home chemicals, and rope….100% effective in Japan, China and South Korea…they use them to kill themselves at 2x our rate.

Right, I would guess those types of suicide are covered in the "other" category and are less lethal than guns. Try again.

Right, I would guess those types of suicide are covered in the "other" category and are less lethal than guns. Try again

Not in Japan, China or South Korea, Poland, Hungary or Scandinavia……..they are the most lethal method they use…since they don't use guns….

The USA has a higher suicide rate than most other countries, but you prefer to cherry pick a couple. Then again, we have no idea what the suicide rate would be in the countries you listed if guns were more prevalent. You're ridiculous. .

List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The USA has a higher suicide rate than most other countries, but you prefer to cherry pick a couple.

I am not cherry picking….The three countries, Japan, China and South Korea have the highest suicide rates in the world…….also, they have absolute gun control…they show that your entire premise is wrong….you don't like that, but that is the truth, the fact and the reality.

 

[Brain357]

I wouldn't understand, I'm not paranoid and scared.

Sure you are. You are paranoid a terrified of anyone who owns a gun. That's why you want to disarm all of them.

I own ten myself...

Bullshit. You don't own a single one. Gun owners can tell the difference between gun owners and those who claim to own them. And the only gun you would ever own is the one in the video game you play..

Always talking out of your ass westwall. Shouldn't that be illegal for a moderator?

Merely stating the obvious. No one who espouses the dishonest propaganda that you do, would ever be caught owning a gun. They're scary!

No you are talking out of your ass again. Like I said I own many guns. I have stated nothing dishonest, you are just owned by the defense industry. I'm not scared like you.

 

[westwall]

Sure you are. You are paranoid a terrified of anyone who owns a gun. That's why you want to disarm all of them.

I own ten myself...

Bullshit. You don't own a single one. Gun owners can tell the difference between gun owners and those who claim to own them. And the only gun you would ever own is the one in the video game you play..

Always talking out of your ass westwall. Shouldn't that be illegal for a moderator?

Merely stating the obvious. No one who espouses the dishonest propaganda that you do, would ever be caught owning a gun. They're scary!

No you are talking out of your ass again. Like I said I own many guns. I have stated nothing dishonest, you are just owned by the defense industry. I'm not scared like you.

You are intellectually dishonest. Virtually everything you claim is a fact isn't. You are long on opinion, short on actual fact and nothing more than a brainless parrot spewing anti gun propaganda. You don't own anything even remotely resembling a firearm. You would piss your pants if you ever handled one.

 

[Brain357]

I own ten myself...

Bullshit. You don't own a single one. Gun owners can tell the difference between gun owners and those who claim to own them. And the only gun you would ever own is the one in the video game you play..

Always talking out of your ass westwall. Shouldn't that be illegal for a moderator?

Merely stating the obvious. No one who espouses the dishonest propaganda that you do, would ever be caught owning a gun. They're scary!

No you are talking out of your ass again. Like I said I own many guns. I have stated nothing dishonest, you are just owned by the defense industry. I'm not scared like you.

You are intellectually dishonest. Virtually everything you claim is a fact isn't. You are long on opinion, short on actual fact and nothing more than a brainless parrot spewing anti gun propaganda. You don't own anything even remotely resembling a firearm. You would piss your pants if you ever handled one.

So you will just keep lying. You really do a great job of representing the forum.

What have I ever lied about? Be specific.

 

[dannyboys]

Sure you are. You are paranoid a terrified of anyone who owns a gun. That's why you want to disarm all of them.

I own ten myself...

Bullshit. You don't own a single one. Gun owners can tell the difference between gun owners and those who claim to own them. And the only gun you would ever own is the one in the video game you play..

Always talking out of your ass westwall. Shouldn't that be illegal for a moderator?

Merely stating the obvious. No one who espouses the dishonest propaganda that you do, would ever be caught owning a gun. They're scary!

No you are talking out of your ass again. Like I said I own many guns. I have stated nothing dishonest, you are just owned by the defense industry. I'm not scared like you.

Are you sure you didn't mean you own 200 Rugers?
Everyone can spot a fucking LIB coward liar like you.

 

[westwall]

Bullshit. You don't own a single one. Gun owners can tell the difference between gun owners and those who claim to own them. And the only gun you would ever own is the one in the video game you play..

Always talking out of your ass westwall. Shouldn't that be illegal for a moderator?

Merely stating the obvious. No one who espouses the dishonest propaganda that you do, would ever be caught owning a gun. They're scary!

No you are talking out of your ass again. Like I said I own many guns. I have stated nothing dishonest, you are just owned by the defense industry. I'm not scared like you.

You are intellectually dishonest. Virtually everything you claim is a fact isn't. You are long on opinion, short on actual fact and nothing more than a brainless parrot spewing anti gun propaganda. You don't own anything even remotely resembling a firearm. You would piss your pants if you ever handled one.

So you will just keep lying. You really do a great job of representing the forum.

What have I ever lied about? Be specific.

Better than you silly boy. Better than you. And you lie about owning guns. if you do indeed own some take a picture of them with todays newspaper and a personal message to westwall and post it here.

 

[Brain357]

Always talking out of your ass westwall. Shouldn't that be illegal for a moderator?

Merely stating the obvious. No one who espouses the dishonest propaganda that you do, would ever be caught owning a gun. They're scary!

No you are talking out of your ass again. Like I said I own many guns. I have stated nothing dishonest, you are just owned by the defense industry. I'm not scared like you.

You are intellectually dishonest. Virtually everything you claim is a fact isn't. You are long on opinion, short on actual fact and nothing more than a brainless parrot spewing anti gun propaganda. You don't own anything even remotely resembling a firearm. You would piss your pants if you ever handled one.

So you will just keep lying. You really do a great job of representing the forum.

What have I ever lied about? Be specific.

Better than you silly boy. Better than you. And you lie about owning guns. if you do indeed own some take a picture of them with todays newspaper and a personal message to westwall and post it here.

You are the one lying. You prove I don't own many. Are you so dumb to think only tea baggers own guns? You realize even the nra has been for gun control right?

Seriously you can't come up with anything I have lied about? Way to go.

 

[westwall]

Merely stating the obvious. No one who espouses the dishonest propaganda that you do, would ever be caught owning a gun. They're scary!

No you are talking out of your ass again. Like I said I own many guns. I have stated nothing dishonest, you are just owned by the defense industry. I'm not scared like you.

You are intellectually dishonest. Virtually everything you claim is a fact isn't. You are long on opinion, short on actual fact and nothing more than a brainless parrot spewing anti gun propaganda. You don't own anything even remotely resembling a firearm. You would piss your pants if you ever handled one.

So you will just keep lying. You really do a great job of representing the forum.

What have I ever lied about? Be specific.

Better than you silly boy. Better than you. And you lie about owning guns. if you do indeed own some take a picture of them with todays newspaper and a personal message to westwall and post it here.

You are the one lying. You prove I don't own many. Are you so dumb to think only tea baggers own guns? You realize even the nra has been for gun control right?

Seriously you can't come up with anything I have lied about? Way to go.

I just said you are lying about owning guns silly boy. Prove me wrong. It's really simple.

 

[HappyJoy]

Here is a list of how succesful different types of suicdes are


Lethality of Suicide Method
Fatal Nonfatal Total % Fatal
Firearm fatal: 16,869 non fatal: 2,980 total attempts: 19,849 % successful: 85%
Suffocation fatal: 6,198 non fatal: 2,761 total attempts:8,959 % successful: 69%
Poisoning/overdose fatal: 5,191 non fatal: 215,814 total attempts: 221,005 % successful: 2%
Fall fatal: 651 non fatal: 1434 total attempts: 2,085 % successful: 31%
Cut/pierce fatal: 458 non-fatal: 62,817 total attempts: 63,275 % successful: 1%
Other fatal: 1,109 non fatal: 35,089 total attempts: 36,198 % successful: 3%
Unspecified fatal: 146 non fatal: 2097 total attempts: 2,243% successful: 7%

Total fatal: 30,622 non-fatal: 322,991 total attempts: 353,613 % successful:9%

Data is from 2001. And shows that successful gun suicides make up over 55% of all suicides yet only makes up less than 6% of all suicide attempts. Because guns make the attempt permanent and other forms of suicide attempts usually fail.

The above data also demonstrates that people don't usually end up choosing guns only after exhausting other methods as gun attempts do not come close to equaling other failed types of failed attempts.

Bullet Trains, tall buildings, bridges, home chemicals, and rope….100% effective in Japan, China and South Korea…they use them to kill themselves at 2x our rate.

Right, I would guess those types of suicide are covered in the "other" category and are less lethal than guns. Try again.

Right, I would guess those types of suicide are covered in the "other" category and are less lethal than guns. Try again

Not in Japan, China or South Korea, Poland, Hungary or Scandinavia……..they are the most lethal method they use…since they don't use guns….

The USA has a higher suicide rate than most other countries, but you prefer to cherry pick a couple. Then again, we have no idea what the suicide rate would be in the countries you listed if guns were more prevalent. You're ridiculous. .

List of countries by suicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The USA has a higher suicide rate than most other countries, but you prefer to cherry pick a couple.

I am not cherry picking….The three countries, Japan, China and South Korea have the highest suicide rates in the world…….also, they have absolute gun control…they show that your entire premise is wrong….you don't like that, but that is the truth, the fact and the reality.

They don't. Japan is somewhere between 10 and 17. Anyway, there are countries with fewer guns and fewer suicides than the U.S. but that apparently doesn't mean anything. Because you are cherry picking, you have no idea what a lot of guns in Japan would do to their suicide rates.

Does it matter that Alaska, Montana and Wyoming have higher suicide rates than Japan? We know they have more guns.

Anyway, here is a mash up of 2 sites.
Using number of gun owners by state per capita here: Percentage of the Population That Owns Guns State-By-State

And top suicide states from here: Suicide: 20 states with highest rates

How many states made both lists? That would be 7. Basically out of the top 10 gun ownership sates seven of those states have more suicides on average in the US than the country as a whole.

By gun ownership rate:
1. Wyoming - suicide ranking - 4
2. Alaska - suicide ranking - 1
3. Montana - suicide ranking - 2
4. South Dakota - suicide ranking - outside of top 20
5. West Virginia - suicide ranking - 7
6. Mississippi - suicide ranking > outside of top 20
7 Idaho - suicide ranking - 11
8 Arkansas - suicide ranking - 17
9 Alabama - suicide ranking - outside of top 20
10. North Dakota - suicide ranking - 12

Probably just a coincidence.

 

[Brain357]

No you are talking out of your ass again. Like I said I own many guns. I have stated nothing dishonest, you are just owned by the defense industry. I'm not scared like you.

You are intellectually dishonest. Virtually everything you claim is a fact isn't. You are long on opinion, short on actual fact and nothing more than a brainless parrot spewing anti gun propaganda. You don't own anything even remotely resembling a firearm. You would piss your pants if you ever handled one.

So you will just keep lying. You really do a great job of representing the forum.

What have I ever lied about? Be specific.

Better than you silly boy. Better than you. And you lie about owning guns. if you do indeed own some take a picture of them with todays newspaper and a personal message to westwall and post it here.

You are the one lying. You prove I don't own many. Are you so dumb to think only tea baggers own guns? You realize even the nra has been for gun control right?

Seriously you can't come up with anything I have lied about? Way to go.

I just said you are lying about owning guns silly boy. Prove me wrong. It's really simple.

No you are lying. You will admit you talk out of your ass and give up being a mod after I prove it? Not going through the work for nothing. Put up or shut up.

 

[westwall]

You are intellectually dishonest. Virtually everything you claim is a fact isn't. You are long on opinion, short on actual fact and nothing more than a brainless parrot spewing anti gun propaganda. You don't own anything even remotely resembling a firearm. You would piss your pants if you ever handled one.

So you will just keep lying. You really do a great job of representing the forum.

What have I ever lied about? Be specific.

Better than you silly boy. Better than you. And you lie about owning guns. if you do indeed own some take a picture of them with todays newspaper and a personal message to westwall and post it here.

You are the one lying. You prove I don't own many. Are you so dumb to think only tea baggers own guns? You realize even the nra has been for gun control right?

Seriously you can't come up with anything I have lied about? Way to go.

I just said you are lying about owning guns silly boy. Prove me wrong. It's really simple.

No you are lying. You will admit you talk out of your ass and give up being a mod after I prove it? Not going through the work for nothing. Put up or shut up.

Nope. Stop acting like a fucking child and put up or shut up.