Zone1 Where does it say in the Bible only adults can be baptized?

[hobelim]

but exactly what Jesus intended when he came here to "change the way people think and to end the vicious cycle of hatred and discord

Looks like you need to take a dip into the baptismal waters. Apparently the first time didn't take.

Jesus came to convey all of Gods commands, the only right way to understand the Law that fulfills the promise of life for everyone who listens to his teaching, understands, and acts on it.

“Come, all you who are thirsty, come to the waters; and you without money, come, buy, and eat! Come, buy wine and milk without money and without cost! Why spend money on that which is not bread, and your labor on that which does not satisfy? Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good, and your soul will delight in the richest of foods"


Hence "eat my flesh". Don't be stupid. The least you can do is try.

Misleading others to set aside the Law and seek spiritual life from a matzo amounts to murder.

MURDERER

 

[Ace Nova]

So shall my Word be that issues forth from my mouth; bread for those who eat

Entiendes? Take this bread and eat it. This is my flesh. The Word became flesh. Ring a bell?

No? Thats a shame!

Do the math!

Matthew 13:

He proposed still another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like a mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his field. 32 It is the smallest of all the seeds, but when it has grown it is the greatest of plants and becomes a tree large enough for the birds to come and make nests in its branches.”[k]

The mustard seed would be your faith - if you allow it. It can be the smallest amount of faith there is - but if you sow it - and you water it by your understanding of God's words - it can become the largest of plants and eventually a tree where even the birds can make their nests on.


And he offered them yet another parable: “The kingdom of heaven is like yeast that a woman took and mixed with three measures of flour until it was completely leavened.”

The yeast is the tiny amount of faith you need because you will add three huge measures of flour to it (Your vast knowledge of scripture) and it will become completely leavened.


Take a small leap of faith so that you can begin to understand - not what is hidden - but what has always been before you - but can only be seen after the mustard seed becomes a tree and the bread is fully leavened.

 

[Cougarbear]

The con was a lie, they would not die but become like God. They did die and weren't like God.

Just like you will never be a god of your own planet or universe, no matter how much you lie.

Now you may be the god of your own fantasy but thats only for as long as you can maintain a delusion which is at best for as long as you live. What then? Bad time to find out you were wrong.

God said, "They have become like "US" knowing good and evil. So, part of being "God" is knowing good and evil without being evil. So, it is you that keeps lying. It's in print right in Genesis.

 

[Cougarbear]

Genesis 2:

9 The Lord God made all sorts of beautiful and nourishing trees sprout out of the earth, among which was the tree of life[e] in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
BOTH THE TREE OF LIFE AND THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE ARE IN THE GARDEN

15 The Lord God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden so that he might work it and care for it. 16 The Lord God told the man, “You can eat of any of the trees in the garden, 17 but you must never eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you were to eat from it, you would surely die.”

The Lord God specifically states YOU CAN EAT OF ANY OF THE TREES IN THE GARDEN but you must never eat from the tree of knowledge.

ONLY THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE WAS FORBIDDEN

What does this mean? That prior to the "fall" mankind was awarded access to "The Tree of Life" - as long as they remained in harmony with God's plan and creation.


Genesis3:

a] 1 The serpent[b] was the most clever of all the wild animals that the Lord God had made. It said to the woman, “Is it true that God told you not to eat of any of the trees in the garden?”

2 The woman answered the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but as for the fruit of the tree in the midst of the garden, God said that we must not eat it, nor even touch it, lest we die.”

4 But the serpent said to the woman, “Certainly you shall not die! 5 God knows that when you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will become like God, knowing that which is good and that which is evil.”

6 The woman saw that the tree was good for food and pleasing to look at and desirable for imparting wisdom. She took some fruit and ate it. Then she gave some to her husband who was with her, and he also ate it. 7 Their eyes were opened and they realized that they were naked. They took fig leaves and sewed them together, making themselves a covering.



22 The Lord God said, “Behold, man has become like one of us, for he has knowledge of that which is good and that which is evil. Now, we must prevent him from reaching out and taking the fruit of the tree of life lest he eat it and live forever.”



Did The Lord God lie? No.

When he stated "they would surely die" he was referring to a "Spiritual death" - "falling out of spiritual communion with God" When he stated he "has become like one of us" he wasn't stating that as a compliment - he was stating that it was a curse for mankind to have "knowledge of what is good and evil" because it would now make them "self aware" and subjected to "sin" It's quite simple - If "there is no good - there is no evil" - in your world - as you understand it - then anything you do would not be subjected to "sin". (Or being accused/judged of "sinning")

"Now, we must prevent him from reaching out and taking the fruit of the tree of life lest he eat it and live forever." - In my opinion, The Lord God was stating that living "forever" in a "fallen state of grace" is not an ideal path to salvation. Mankind would now need to work both physically and spiritually in order to once again have access to the Tree of Life (Redemption). And The Lord God made it clear that it would not be easy - physically mankind would need to labor and endure pain and spiritually they would need to "make it past the flaming sword that guards the tree of life."

Did the serpent lie? From a "physical" perspective - not quite - he told them "they wouldn't die (physically) and that it would open up their eyes" - And that happened. What he did not tell them would be the consequences of breaking the main rule God had put in place for them.

In my humble opinion, "The Lord works in mysterious ways." The same way Adam and Eve did not know "the reason" they could not eat the fruit could be the same way we may not be fully aware of God's intentions for us. We can read passages from the Bible and easily misconstrue their meaning. Remember - the serpent did not lie - and yet was able to persuade mankind to fall into temptation. So if "the serpent" gets in your ear and says, "look at all the things God says and does to punish mankind" - well, he may not be lying - but you can bet he's not telling you the consequences - good or bad.

If you ever have a doubt - think about the air you breathe - you can't live more than a minute without it. Think about the water you drink - you can't live more than 3 days without it. Think about the perfect ecosystem in which you live that sustains your life - you couldn't live but a few seconds without the sun's heat.


Isaiah 55:

For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
nor are your ways my ways, says the Lord.
9 As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts above your thoughts.

For just as the rain and the snow
come down from the heavens
and do not return there
until they have watered the earth,
making it fertile and fruitful,
giving seed for the one who sows
and bread for those who eat,
11 so shall my word be
that issues forth from my mouth.
It will not return to me unfulfilled,
but it will accomplish my purpose
and achieve what I sent it forth to do.

You are entitled to the opinions you offer. Much of it has merit. Some is putting new words into the scriptures. For example, God said don't eat or you will die. There is no indication of a spiritual death only. They were in a state of not being subject to physical death. What they did not have is anything to reference them to what physical death is that we know of based on the Bible's account. With that said, in the Garden, they were able to be in contact with the Godhead. Once banished from the Garden, they were no longer able to have the same kind of contact and thus were in a spiritual dearth. Angels were sent along with the Holy Ghost as well. Still happens today.

So, simply put, Satan (the serpent) beguiled Eve and she did eat. She then let Adam know that if he doesn't eat, he would be alone that point on. And, there would be no way for him to multiply and replenish the earth. So, with what is written in the Bible, Eve was deceived by learning some truth and some false stuff. They would NOT die physically or spiritually was a lie. But, being like God, knowing good and evil, that was the truth. Deceit.

 

[Ace Nova]

Nonsense. In 325 CE Rome assimilated and perverted Christianity with Mithraism, the secret MYSTERY RELIGION of the roman government and military, upon which Catholicism is based, and buried the teachings of Jesus under a mountain of blasphemy upon which your Church is built.

Incorrect.

I would expect better of you. I've seen some of your posts dwelling in these nonsensical conspiracy theories - and was hoping for this opportunity. Thank you.


Let's start with Mithra:

Mithra (Avestan: 𐬨𐬌𐬚𐬭𐬀 Miθra, Old Persian: 𐎷𐎰𐎼 Miθra) is an ancient Iranian deity of covenants, light, oaths, justice, the Sun,[1] contracts, and friendship.[2] In addition to being the divinity of contracts, Mithra is also a judicial figure, an all-seeing protector of Truth (Asha), and the guardian of cattle, the harvest, and the Waters.

Like most other divinities, Mithra is not mentioned by name in the Gathas, the oldest texts of Zoroastrianism and traditionally attributed to Zoroaster himself, or by name in the Yasna Haptanghaiti, a seven-verse section of the Yasna liturgy that is linguistically as old as the Gathas. As a member of the Iranian ahuric triad, along with Ahura Mazda and Ahura Berezaiti (Apam Napat), Mithra is an exalted figure. Together with Rashnu "Justice" and Sraosha "Obedience", Mithra is one of the three judges at the Chinvat Bridge, the "Bridge of Separation" that all souls must cross. Unlike Sraosha, however, Mithra is not a psychopomp, a guide of souls to the place of the dead. Should the Good Thoughts, Words, and Deeds outweigh the Bad, Sraosha alone conveys the Soul across the Bridge.

The "orginal" Mithra dates back as far as 1400 BC

Now fast forward 1400 years later and Mithras cults begin to emerge around Rome....

Mithras before the Roman Mysteries​

Mithras-Helios, with solar rays and in Iranian dress,[71] with Antiochus I of Commagene. (Mt. Nemrut, 1st century BCE)h-century relief of the investiture of the Sasanian king Ardashir II. Mithra stands on a Lotus Flower on the left holding a Barsom.[71]
According to the archaeologist Maarten Vermaseren, evidence from Commagene from the 1st century BCE demonstrates the "reverence paid to Mithras" but does not refer to "the mysteries".[ag] In the colossal statuary erected by King Antiochus I (69–34 BCE) at Mount Nemrut, Mithras is shown beardless, wearing a Phrygian cap[3][73] (or the similar headdress – a Persian tiara), in Iranian (Parthian) clothing,[71] and was originally seated on a throne alongside other deities and the king himself.[74] On the back of the thrones there is an inscription in Greek, which includes the compound name Apollo-Mithras-Helios in the genitive case (Ἀπόλλωνος Μίθρου Ἡλίου).[75] Vermaseren also reports about a Mithras cult in Fayum in the 3rd century BCE [39](p 467) R.D.

Barnett has argued that the royal seal of King Saussatar of the Mitanni from c. 1450 BCE depicts a tauroctonous Mithras.[ah]

Now fast forward 1400 years later and Mithras cults begin to emerge around Rome....

​

Beginnings of Roman Mithraism​

[edit]
The origins and spread of the Mysteries have been intensely debated among scholars and there are radically differing views on these issues.[76] According to Clauss, mysteries of Mithras were not practiced until the 1st century CE.[4] According to Ulansey, the earliest evidence for the Mithraic mysteries places their appearance in the middle of the 1st century BCE: The historian Plutarch says that in 67 BCE the pirates of Cilicia (a province on the southeastern coast of Asia Minor, that provided sea access to adjacent Commagene) were practicing "secret rites" of Mithras.[ai] According to C.M. Daniels,[78] whether any of this relates to the origins of the mysteries is unclear.[aj] The unique underground temples or mithraea appear suddenly in the archaeology in the last quarter of the 1st century CE.[79](p 118)

NO "MYSTERIES" of Mithras were practiced prior to the turn of the century in Rome - meaning that it was already in direct competition with Christianity. NO CATECHISM NO SACRAMENTS - UNTIL IT WAS ALREADY BEING PRACTICED BY CHRISTIANS ALL OVER ROME.​

Now if none of these things were practiced by the Persian version of Mithras Cults but all of a sudden began to be practiced AFTER CHRISTIANITY (Catholicism) WAS ALIVE AND WELL WITHIN ROME - WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?



"The Mithraic Mysteries had no public ceremonies of its own. The festival of Natalis Invicti, held on 25 December, was a general festival of the Sun, and by no means specific to the Mysteries of Mithras."[4


Mithras-worship in the Roman Empire was characterized by images of the god slaughtering a bull. Other images of Mithras are found in the Roman temples, for instance Mithras banqueting with Sol, and depictions of the birth of Mithras from a rock. But the image of bull-slaying (tauroctony) is always in the central niche.[9](p 6) Textual sources for a reconstruction of the theology behind this iconography are very rare.[o] (See section Interpretations of the bull-slaying scene below.)

The practice of depicting the god slaying a bull seems to be specific to Roman Mithraism. According to David Ulansey, this is "perhaps the most important example" of evident difference between Iranian and Roman traditions: "... there is no evidence that the Iranian god Mithra ever had anything to do with killing a bull."[9](p 


Mithras killing the bull likely demonstrates the advent of a new era - by "sacrificing" the "bull" of the "Old era" (Abolishing the Old way) - and by that sacrifice - the bull's life force gives life to the new age. (That's my understanding of it).

Jesus Christ DID NOT TEACH THIS.

.“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. I have come not to abolish but to fulfill them. 18 Amen, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not a single letter,[b] not even a tiny portion of a letter, will disappear from the Law until all things have been accomplished.

The assertion that Christianity borrowed from some pre-Christian Persian religion via the Roman cult of Mithras does not stand up to historical scrutiny. Far from being a pre-Christian Persian cult, it appears that Mithraism actually appeared on the scene later than Christianity, and in Europe, not Persia. There is no real historical link between Roman Mithraism and the Persian worship of Miça; in fact, it is not unreasonable to think that to the degree Mithraism did look like Christianity (and there is no good evidence that it did), it may have in fact borrowed from the Church rather than the other way around, since the Church predated Mithraism, at least according to epigraphic evidence. The view put forth by Cumont and others that Christianity is a syncretic blend of Mithraism and other mystery religions is historically untenable. The condemnation of the view becomes stronger when we realize that many of these alleged “similarities” upon which the theory rests either do not exist or are the results of a profound misunderstanding of religion in the Roman Empire. Since the 1970’s Cumont’s views have come under increasing scrutiny, to the point that reputable scholars now say that any pre-Christian Persian connection can safely be, in the words of secular historian Ramsay MacMullen, “denied entirely”.

Christianity and Mithraism – Unam Sanctam Catholicam

unamsanctamcatholicam.com

As far as the book of Revelation is concerned - That is likely in reference to the other person you like to quote in your conspiracy theories - Simon Magus. Simon Magus and his cult were adopted by the Emperor Nero - in direct contrast to Christianity. Nero despised Christians and Christians despised Nero. That said, Simon Magus became a favorite of Nero's - astonishing people with "signs in the sky" and so forth.



To conclude - I have respect for all religions - including the many religions of antiquity. They are a huge part of our civilization and history and should always be respected, in my humble opinion.

What we should realize is that Jesus Christ is indeed the Word. It is what separates his teachings from many others - His Words give life, meaning and light to billions and billions of people. They do not abolish but they bring new life and meaning to the teachings of the Prophets and the Books of the Law. No need to have "secret rituals". No need to "sacrifice an animal". His teachings teach that through faith in God all things are possible. It is through faith in God that we are healed. It is through faith and good works that God's Mercy manifests itself throughout the world.

And it is through faith, good works and God's Mercy that we should understand that God - through his prophets and through his son - is a God of Justice, Mercy, Love - he wants us to live that way. "Love God with all you heart, all your soul, all your mind and strength" "Love Your Neighbor As Yourself". God never wants us to be weak or "weak minded" but strong in what we should be doing as human beings living within and among his creation.