Zone1 Where does it say in the Bible only adults can be baptized?

[LeroyDumonde]

Do you even believe in God or a Creator

No.

or anything beyond a material existence?

Yes.

Because otherwise, what are you even talking about here.

I'm talking about the Bible saying that baptism is for the repentance of sin.

You don't believe God gave us that nature because you don't believe in anything beyond a material existence so of course you are going to believe the whole idea of God forgiving it is pretty bizarre.

Even if I believed in God it wouldn't make any sense. God didn't accidentally create human nature. It would be like me building a computer and then forgiving it for being a computer. However, any computer that didn't get sprinkled with water will be cast into a fire for being a computer.

But if you had read what I wrote, I didn't say God needed to forgive original sin. In fact, I argued God didn't need to forgive original sin.

Here's what you said:
"So when someone says 'original sin' just think human nature instead. Does being baptized eliminate that human nature? No, of course not. Baptism is a forgiveness of one's human nature. So it makes perfect sense to baptize infants. But whether or not one is baptized, I'm pretty sure their human nature is forgiven."

You literally say that baptism is forgiving human nature.

 

[onefour1]

Baptism is an ordinance of the gospel that was taught and practiced by both Jesus and his apostles. When one is baptized, they make a commitment to follow Jesus Christ and are forgiven of all their sins.

Acts 2:38
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Repentance is a lifelong process of forsaking evil and turning to the teachings of Jesus Christ. Before being baptized, one should repent and enter the road less traveled by committing to follow the teachings of Jesus Christ. When one does this, they are then baptized for the remission of their sins. Once one takes these steps, they are eligible to receive the Gift of the Holy Ghost by the laying on of hands by one who holds the Melchizedek priesthood.

Acts 8:15-20
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,
19 Saying, Give me also this power, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.
20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the gift of God may be purchased with money.

Acts 19:1-6
1 And it came to pass, that, while Apollos was at Corinth, Paul having passed through the upper coasts came to Ephesus: and finding certain disciples,
2 He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.
3 And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye baptized? And they said, Unto John’s baptism.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

At the time one receives the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost, they are also confirmed a member of the Church of Jesus Christ and become a member of His church. From then on, one should continue to repent of their sins and continue to seek further forgiveness of their sins through prayer. God continues to forgive our sins as we make mistakes and repent and seek forgiveness of sin through prayer. God will confirm his forgiveness upon those who follower after him by the gift of the Holy Ghost. It is in this way that we can be sanctified by the spirit. In this way one enters the straight and narrow path which can lead to eternal life.

 

[Meriweather]

Baptism isn't about protecting people from sin. Baptism is about repentance from sin.

Of course. Repentance is turning from disobedience to God to obedience. One can turn to obedience without first being disobedient. Jesus showed us the way of this.

 

[ding]

No.



Yes.


I'm talking about the Bible saying that baptism is for the repentance of sin.


Even if I believed in God it wouldn't make any sense. God didn't accidentally create human nature. It would be like me building a computer and then forgiving it for being a computer. However, any computer that didn't get sprinkled with water will be cast into a fire for being a computer.


Here's what you said:
"So when someone says 'original sin' just think human nature instead. Does being baptized eliminate that human nature? No, of course not. Baptism is a forgiveness of one's human nature. So it makes perfect sense to baptize infants. But whether or not one is baptized, I'm pretty sure their human nature is forgiven."

You literally say that baptism is forgiving human nature.

Don't believe in God then. Problem solved.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Don't believe in God then. Problem solved.

it is useless to try and baptize children that can't make a conscious choice to repent.

 

[ding]

it is useless to try and baptize children that can't make a conscious choice to repent.

Then don't do it. I don't see it that way.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

Then don't do it. I don't see it that way.

not biblical nor in keeping with God's word or plan.

 

[saveliberty]

Nice non-answer. How can a baby repent from anything? Why would anyone repent from a sin that he never committed? Why would a just God punish people for a sin that they didn't commit?

It is not a nonanswer. Very specific and applicable here. I guess remaining ignorant is a choice.

 

[hobelim]

After Adam ate the fruit, God said Adam became like them. This is how deception works. Satan first says a lie. Then a truth.

The con was a lie, they would not die but become like God. They did die and weren't like God.

Just like you will never be a god of your own planet or universe, no matter how much you lie.

Now you may be the god of your own fantasy but thats only for as long as you can maintain a delusion which is at best for as long as you live. What then? Bad time to find out you were wrong.

 

[RetiredGySgt]

The con was a lie, they would not die but become like God. They did die and weren't like God.

Just like you will never be a god of your own planet or universe, no matter how much you lie.

Now you may be the god of your own fantasy but thats only for as long as you can maintain a delusion which is at best for as long as you live. What then? Bad time to find out you were wrong.

we aren't wrong the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the only true Church. But don't worry you can repent and be taught after Judgement Day.

 

[hobelim]

we aren't wrong the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is the only true Church. But don't worry you can repent and be taught after Judgement Day.

After judgment day?

Don't be silly. Gods judgments have been openly revealed from the beginning. Do this. Don't do that. If you do this you will live. If you do something else you will surely die. You have set aside the very first command to worship a trinity that became a Jewish man. What you profess to believe about God does not correspond to any real living being ever in existence. It is a false god. DUH!

Everyone on earth is already living after judgment day. You seem completely oblivious to this fact

Obviously, YOU HAVE YOUR REWARD ALREADY!

Enjoy!

 

[hobelim]

I'm talking about the Bible saying that baptism is for the repentance of sin.

I hate to be a stickler but it is a token of repentance for the forgiveness of sins. Unless a person actually bears fruit worthy of repentance there is no forgiveness, their guilt remains, no matter how much they blubber about loving Jesus or how many times they dunk themselves in water.

 

[Ace Nova]

After Adam ate the fruit, God said Adam became like them. This is how deception works. Satan first says a lie. Then a truth. And, you have been deceived.

Genesis 2:

9 The Lord God made all sorts of beautiful and nourishing trees sprout out of the earth, among which was the tree of life[e] in the middle of the garden and the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.
BOTH THE TREE OF LIFE AND THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE ARE IN THE GARDEN

15 The Lord God took the man and placed him in the Garden of Eden so that he might work it and care for it. 16 The Lord God told the man, “You can eat of any of the trees in the garden, 17 but you must never eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. If you were to eat from it, you would surely die.”

The Lord God specifically states YOU CAN EAT OF ANY OF THE TREES IN THE GARDEN but you must never eat from the tree of knowledge.

ONLY THE TREE OF KNOWLEDGE WAS FORBIDDEN

What does this mean? That prior to the "fall" mankind was awarded access to "The Tree of Life" - as long as they remained in harmony with God's plan and creation.


Genesis3:

a] 1 The serpent[b] was the most clever of all the wild animals that the Lord God had made. It said to the woman, “Is it true that God told you not to eat of any of the trees in the garden?”

2 The woman answered the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3 but as for the fruit of the tree in the midst of the garden, God said that we must not eat it, nor even touch it, lest we die.”

4 But the serpent said to the woman, “Certainly you shall not die! 5 God knows that when you eat from it, your eyes will be opened, and you will become like God, knowing that which is good and that which is evil.”

6 The woman saw that the tree was good for food and pleasing to look at and desirable for imparting wisdom. She took some fruit and ate it. Then she gave some to her husband who was with her, and he also ate it. 7 Their eyes were opened and they realized that they were naked. They took fig leaves and sewed them together, making themselves a covering.



22 The Lord God said, “Behold, man has become like one of us, for he has knowledge of that which is good and that which is evil. Now, we must prevent him from reaching out and taking the fruit of the tree of life lest he eat it and live forever.”



Did The Lord God lie? No.

When he stated "they would surely die" he was referring to a "Spiritual death" - "falling out of spiritual communion with God" When he stated he "has become like one of us" he wasn't stating that as a compliment - he was stating that it was a curse for mankind to have "knowledge of what is good and evil" because it would now make them "self aware" and subjected to "sin" It's quite simple - If "there is no good - there is no evil" - in your world - as you understand it - then anything you do would not be subjected to "sin". (Or being accused/judged of "sinning")

"Now, we must prevent him from reaching out and taking the fruit of the tree of life lest he eat it and live forever." - In my opinion, The Lord God was stating that living "forever" in a "fallen state of grace" is not an ideal path to salvation. Mankind would now need to work both physically and spiritually in order to once again have access to the Tree of Life (Redemption). And The Lord God made it clear that it would not be easy - physically mankind would need to labor and endure pain and spiritually they would need to "make it past the flaming sword that guards the tree of life."

Did the serpent lie? From a "physical" perspective - not quite - he told them "they wouldn't die (physically) and that it would open up their eyes" - And that happened. What he did not tell them would be the consequences of breaking the main rule God had put in place for them.

In my humble opinion, "The Lord works in mysterious ways." The same way Adam and Eve did not know "the reason" they could not eat the fruit could be the same way we may not be fully aware of God's intentions for us. We can read passages from the Bible and easily misconstrue their meaning. Remember - the serpent did not lie - and yet was able to persuade mankind to fall into temptation. So if "the serpent" gets in your ear and says, "look at all the things God says and does to punish mankind" - well, he may not be lying - but you can bet he's not telling you the consequences - good or bad.

If you ever have a doubt - think about the air you breathe - you can't live more than a minute without it. Think about the water you drink - you can't live more than 3 days without it. Think about the perfect ecosystem in which you live that sustains your life - you couldn't live but a few seconds without the sun's heat.


Isaiah 55:

For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
nor are your ways my ways, says the Lord.
9 As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts above your thoughts.

For just as the rain and the snow
come down from the heavens
and do not return there
until they have watered the earth,
making it fertile and fruitful,
giving seed for the one who sows
and bread for those who eat,
11 so shall my word be
that issues forth from my mouth.
It will not return to me unfulfilled,
but it will accomplish my purpose
and achieve what I sent it forth to do.

 

[hobelim]

"make it past the flaming sword that guards the tree of life."

A flaming and flashing sword, that turns in every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life.


Do you see any connection here to Jesus saying that he came to bring a sword?

Or the sword mentioned in Jeremiah 25:15

or revelation 19:15

or "he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword"

 

[hobelim]

For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
nor are your ways my ways, says the Lord.
9 As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts above your thoughts.

You should keep this in mind when you ritually eat flesh and drink blood for spiritual life.. derp.

 

[hobelim]

giving seed for the one who sows
and bread for those who eat,
11 so shall my word be
that issues forth from my mouth.

So shall my Word be that issues forth from my mouth; bread for those who eat

Entiendes? Take this bread and eat it. This is my flesh. The Word became flesh. Ring a bell?

No? Thats a shame!

Do the math!

 

[hobelim]

For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
nor are your ways my ways, says the Lord.
9 As the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts above your thoughts.

They pay no heed to the real hidden meaning of things but divert themselves instead with all kinds of iniquitous arcane lore. They do not know the hidden meaning of what is actually taking place, nor have they ever understood the lessons of the past. Consequently, they have no knowledge of what is coming upon them and have done nothing to save their souls from the deeper implications of present events."

 

[Ace Nova]

A flaming and flashing sword, that turns in every direction, to guard the way to the tree of life.


Do you see any connection here to Jesus saying that he came to bring a sword?

Or the sword mentioned in Jeremiah 25:15

or revelation 19:15

or "he who lives by the sword shall die by the sword"

Revelation 19:
15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations.

Do you still not understand? The sword Jesus is speaking of is The Word of God. It is a "double edge sword" because for some - it will bring "salvation" but for others, "condemnation".

Jesus' entire ministry was "living by the Sword" - OF HIS WORD. Within 400 years of his ministry, the Sword of his Word was able to conquer the entire known civilized world at the time - The Roman Empire. It was not done by "physical wars" but exactly what Jesus intended when he came here to "change the way people think and to end the vicious cycle of hatred and discord"

 

[hobelim]

Revelation 19:
15 Coming out of his mouth is a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations.

Do you still not understand? The sword Jesus is speaking of is The Word of God. It is a "double edge sword"

no.

The sword is a curse in a cup of wine. (Jeremiah 25:15) TO SMITE THE NATIONS (rev 19:15)

 

[hobelim]

Within 400 years of his ministry, the Sword of his Word was able to conquer the entire known civilized world at the time - The Roman Empire.

Nonsense. In 325 CE Rome assimilated and perverted Christianity with Mithraism, the secret MYSTERY RELIGION of the roman government and military, upon which Catholicism is based, and buried the teachings of Jesus under a mountain of blasphemy upon which your Church is built.